Possible Bi-Polar with ADHD

Kellie - posted on 06/13/2012

Melatonin is a very effective and natural sleep aid. I buy it in liquid form and just put a few drops in his evening beverage. Asleep by 9 most nights. Without it, he could be awake until 2 am!

Kellie - posted on 06/13/2012

Melatonin is a very effective and natural sleep aid. I buy it in liquid form and just put a few drops in his evening beverage. Asleep by 9 most nights. Without it, he could be awake until 2 am!

Erin - posted on 06/11/2012

I'm not an expert (except that there are a WHOLE lot of bipolars in my family tree, and my daughter is one of them), but I always get nervous when I hear about someone being bipolar and ADD or ADHD at the same time. Some members of my family were put on ADD drugs before the docs figured out it was bipolar, and they REALLY didn't work. I've also read that ADD drugs can push BP people into mania. I'll have to talk to my doctor about that. I could be totally wrong.
As far as a good doctor goes, we are seeing the head of the child and adolescent psychiatry dept. at Georgetown University in Washington D.C. We fly over from Europe each year for several months just to see this doctor. (The diagnosis and treatment of BP in young children is too new for most in the countries around where we are living, so they're happy just to prescribe the meds our U.S. doctor assigns and to monitor our daughter.) He is excellent. Very supportive. He was very thorough about the diagnosis, even advising with a leading scienist/doctor at the National Institute of Mental Health before making the final call on one of the meds to give her. He is very approachable and considerate, and very knowledgeable about this particular area. I can't say enough good about him. He also has good contacts around the U.S. to other excellent doctors.(-:

Brandy - posted on 01/18/2012

Any mom's have teen daughters with bi polar??

Kelly - posted on 01/11/2012

I am going through the Exact same situation! We are desperately try to find away to Get my Daughters moods under control. I Definetly think she has some form of mood disorder but Im not 100% sure how to deal with it yet . We Basically ignore her outburst and She loses privileges each time as per her therapist instructions. It Works most of the time they last much shorter now. But I caution you it def gets worse for awhile at first before better good Luck!

Michelle - posted on 01/21/2009

Quoting Debra:

Hi Michelle. I also have a 12 yr. old daughter with ADHD and very NASTY mood swings. I wish that I could just blame it on the pre-teen hormonal "attitude" that all young girls go through....but I know it's much worse than that. I have found, however, that it doesn't usually happen until the afternoon, until after her medication has peaked. It's almost, like she becomes very irritated, as the med. is leaving her body (possibly getting tired as she is "comming down"??). Do you find that your daughter is like that too? Mine, is also on Adderall XR 25 mg ... and she has a 5 mg (fast acting) "mini dose" I give her after school sometimes, if she has sports. Then, she is a witch after dinner...and....also another problem, has trouble falling asleep. I give her "GNC" MELETONIN 1 mg SUBLINGUAL (under her tongue) and it really helps her alot!! It is not a drug....It is an all-natural suppliment, for what we already have in our bodies, that regulates sleep. I know three different pediatricans that say it's OK to give to children if they need it. Give it a try....I really think you & your daughter will like it. It's wonderful...because it works pretty quickly (20-30 mins.)...and it won't make her groggy in the morning. I reccommend Meletonin to anyone...adult (2-3 tabs) or kids (1 tab) that may need it. You can get it at RiteAide, CVS, Walgreens etc....just make sure it's GNC 1 MG (not 2 mg or 3 mg) SUBLINGUAL (cherry flavor). If you can, please let me know what the Psychologist thinks. Good Luck!

My daughter was exactly like that! Ever since she has been off the adderall XR 30mg and taking 3mg melatonin at night our lives have been wonderful!!!! The behavior health doctor told me that comming down from the stimulants (ADD meds) can cause mood swings especially if they are not needed. The doctor also told me that since my daughter is better without the adderall it seems most likely she has bipolar.  So now she is on the abilify to help the mood swings and to tell you the truth we have had no outbursts in a week and we had them once a day. She is like a new child and it's wonderful! She is even listening better and using her manners....it's great.

Debra - posted on 01/21/2009

Hi Michelle. I also have a 12 yr. old daughter with ADHD and very NASTY mood swings. I wish that I could just blame it on the pre-teen hormonal "attitude" that all young girls go through....but I know it's much worse than that. I have found, however, that it doesn't usually happen until the afternoon, until after her medication has peaked. It's almost, like she becomes very irritated, as the med. is leaving her body (possibly getting tired as she is "comming down"??). Do you find that your daughter is like that too? Mine, is also on Adderall XR 25 mg ... and she has a 5 mg (fast acting) "mini dose" I give her after school sometimes, if she has sports. Then, she is a witch after dinner...and....also another problem, has trouble falling asleep. I give her "GNC" MELETONIN 1 mg SUBLINGUAL (under her tongue) and it really helps her alot!! It is not a drug....It is an all-natural suppliment, for what we already have in our bodies, that regulates sleep. I know three different pediatricans that say it's OK to give to children if they need it. Give it a try....I really think you & your daughter will like it. It's wonderful...because it works pretty quickly (20-30 mins.)...and it won't make her groggy in the morning. I reccommend Meletonin to anyone...adult (2-3 tabs) or kids (1 tab) that may need it. You can get it at RiteAide, CVS, Walgreens etc....just make sure it's GNC 1 MG (not 2 mg or 3 mg) SUBLINGUAL (cherry flavor). If you can, please let me know what the Psychologist thinks. Good Luck!

Shellie - posted on 01/21/2009

Quoting Wendi:

OMG!!! This sounds just like my almost 7 year old!  . I would love to know what is going on for sure and have always thought that she may be bipolar.  What kind of doctor do i go to for this diagnosis???

 

To get help for school, we had to have a written diagnosis from a Psychiatrist. So I would ask your pediatrican's advice, if he agrees with your findings, then ask him ot her to refer you to a child Psychiatrist.  :D

 

Shellie - posted on 01/21/2009

Quoting Michelle:

Well I used the melatonin last night and it worked great! My daughter fell asleep within 45 minutes of taking it and got up wonderfully this morning. I didn't even have to fight with her to get ready for school! I highly recommend it to any of you dealing with the same sleeping issues.

 

 

Melatonin? Did you get it from the Health food store? What did your doctor say about it?

I'm curious as mine has days when she just can't sleep either... I'll have to ask our Doctor about it too. Thank You

Shellie - posted on 01/21/2009

Quoting Daisy:

 "There is no perfect mixture, it can work will for a while, then it's like he isn't on it at all.  We never know what to expect from him."

I get this too, I have been watching patterns in her behavoir, certain times of the year, special dates coming up, dificulties in school, issues with other kids, all these things play into her behavoir for the day... Watch for these things & make adjustments to accomidate so it's as easy on the child as possible. IE my child is OUT OF CONTROL Thanksgiving thru Christmas, at home, at school, everywhere, I've tried chainging medication dose and a few other things. What  I've learned is, she needs to talk about her day, and what she is SO EXCITED about. I have to change my schedule, I have to slow down, and let some other things go to the wayside, and sit with her at bed time and talk, or spend extra time helping with homework after school, or both.

 

"well, every time I tell him it's his turn to do dishes he immediately says "WHAT?" and tells me he is NOT going to do them.  Pretty much with any chore he doesn't want to do.  Anything he doesn't want to do in general he gets all attitude and tells me he isn't doing it.  He says that he hates me, that he wants to live at his dad's house (none of these things work, but he still says them). "

That is all kids, not just ADHD kids, although I know it is more intense with ADHD kids, so send him to a quiet place to chill, then when he is calm go talk to him, tell him it's his job and it needs to be done by him. Stand next to him while he does it, give encouragement, It's something diffrent at this point, when if it becomes a part of his routine, it won't be as difficult to get him to do it... Your the boss, he needs to know that what YOU say goes not what HE says. It's tougher with ADHD kids but it CAN work.

 

"He does better on a regular schedule and I'm not so good with regular schedules, so some of his problems with me are because of my faults.  "

 

Yes I agree mine does better on a schedule too, as would I, but I am not good at a regular schedule either, I'm trying, some days are easier than others They are worth making  the extra effort for, it makes their life easier, there for it makes our life easier. 

Patience is not always easy to find, expecially when they are throwing fits, BUT if we give in to the fits, we teach them that the fit gives them what they want, so they continue with that behavoir.  If we get frustrated, we teach them to get frustrated too.  Sometimes I have to walk away from her, take a few deep breaths, cry, scream into a pillow LOL, Try to remember that I am the adult, That she needs me to teach her. Once We are calm, we talk, and trust me when I say we have had the SAME conversations over & over again. Eventually it gets through.

 

"Overall he is doing better than he was 2 years ago, but it's a daily battle."

It's going to continue to be a daily battle, not just with your ADHD child, that's just kids in general too, It get's easier you said so yourself, he is better than he was 2 years ago, and 2 years from now he will be even better than now. You'll get there together. :D

 

 

Michelle - posted on 01/21/2009

Well I used the melatonin last night and it worked great! My daughter fell asleep within 45 minutes of taking it and got up wonderfully this morning. I didn't even have to fight with her to get ready for school! I highly recommend it to any of you dealing with the same sleeping issues.

Jenn - posted on 01/20/2009

Shauna, my oldest son is on concerta 27mg and abilify 2mg in am and 2mg in the afternoon.  he is the one that sleep great and gets up good.  now my younger son who is adhd (no other issues right now)  he wants to stay up most of the night (school nights he still goes to bed at 7:30) but he is awful to get up.............  he is also on concerta 18mg.  the hard part is finding the right medication if that is the way you want to go.  my youngest has only been on the concerta for 8 months now and can't seem to function at school with out it.  our ped. dr. suggested benadryl if he would not go to sleep.  i don't give just because he is already so hard to get up, but if he does not have school the next day i have given it and it helped a little.

Jenn - posted on 01/20/2009

Shauna, my oldest son is on concerta 27mg and abilify 2mg in am and 2mg in the afternoon.  he is the one that sleep great and gets up good.  now my younger son who is adhd (no other issues right now)  he wants to stay up most of the night (school nights he still goes to bed at 7:30) but he is awful to get up.............  he is also on concerta 18mg.  the hard part is finding the right medication if that is the way you want to go.  my youngest has only been on the concerta for 8 months now and can't seem to function at school with out it.  our ped. dr. suggested benadryl if he would not go to sleep.  i don't give just because he is already so hard to get up, but if he does not have school the next day i have given it and it helped a little.

Michelle - posted on 01/20/2009

Wendi, I suggest having your pediatrician refer you to a behavior health doctor. My daughter was the same as your 7 yr old. The ADD meds enhanced the bipolar symptoms. She has been wonderful with being off of them for almost the past week. The behavior health doctor also recommended giving her melatonin 3mg, which is a natural vitamin, a half hour before bed time to help her sleep. You can pick it up anywhere vitamins are sold and it's pretty cheap. I paid $7 for 120 pills! But I think it's best to go to a doctor that specializes in child behavior health than the pediatrician. They just seem to help and understand more.

Kim - posted on 01/20/2009

Wow! I can relate to almost all of the stories above. My son is 10 and was diagnosed with ADHD (non-hyperactive type) at age 7. His outbursts aren't as violent as most of you described, but he definitely has meltdowns and mood swings. About a year ago, I was diagnosed with cyclothymia (a mild form of bipolar disorder) which was recently upgraded to BPII after a hospitalization, but I had exhibited signs of it since I hit puberty (just never got treatment). His behavior is worse than mine was at the same age, but it could be because I have a more open, loving relationship with my children than my parents had with me. Much of my mood swings were kept to myself, but his are obvious.



His ADHD doc thinks his outbursts are just from frustration and added a "booster" of his Focalin, which hasn't helped. He's reluctant to have him evaluated, but after reading the stories above, I think I'm going to call and have him seen by the child psychiatrist. He's already been on Adderal, Concerta, Metadate, & Strattera and the side effects of all of them were unbearable and the doctor thinks any other meds will have the same effects. I'm at my wits end with him because one minute, I'm ready to strangle him because of his poor attitude and outbursts; the next, I'm ready to hug and hold him because he's in tears, saying how stupid and worthless he is.

Liz - posted on 01/20/2009

Michelle, I am so happy that you got a finally got a diagnosis.  The meds will definitely help once they are balanced.  Untill then, look for help from any resource you can find.  A GOOD psychologist can help as well.  The first one I went to just scolded me for expecting meds to change it and told me I had to work on my parenting.  I remember being so frustrated because I was willing to work on my parenting if you could just give me a clue on how to parent a bi-polar child.  Later when we worked with a family psy-D who was behavioral focused, we got a lot of help.  It takes time.  Make sure you get breaks too!  You need a little fun distraction from it all every so often as well. 

Wendi - posted on 01/20/2009

OMG!!! This sounds just like my almost 7 year old!  She can be perfectly happy one second and then she just flops to the ground and has a temper tantrum or something. I have never known what to do with it. She has been on a few different meds for her ADHD (on metadate now) but the mood swings still get me. Sometimes i just have to wrap my arms around her until she stops crying and thrashing. I am up against a wall because i dont know what direction to turn sometimes for a different diagnosis. I would love to know what is going on for sure and have always thought that she may be bipolar.  What kind of doctor do i go to for this diagnosis???

Ardeliah - posted on 01/20/2009

I wish my son slept great or woke up well. He was on concerta for several years and the insomonia affected him greatly. Yet still, getting up wasn't too bad. But since we have switched to Biphentin the insomnia disappeared so he forces himself to stay up and oversleeps in the morning. It is like he misses being able to stay up late and tries to make it happen. His appointment for the psychiatric intake is tomorrow and the one the school is giving him for the pyschoeducational is today. I just hope that I can get some answers soon. If he does have the bi polar or oppositional defiance disorders as well (which from reading everything here I'll bet he does) the sooner I can get help for him the better. Nothing is worse than having the school know these appointments are coming up and yet still getting calls from them complaining about his behavior. I can't make the appointments come any quicker so calling me not to tell me about an incident but to complain about him just makes my blood boil!

Ardeliah - posted on 01/20/2009

I wish my son slept great or woke up well. He was on concerta for several years and the insomonia affected him greatly. Yet still, getting up wasn't too bad. But since we have switched to Biphentin the insomnia disappeared so he forces himself to stay up and oversleeps in the morning. It is like he misses being able to stay up late and tries to make it happen. His appointment for the psychiatric intake is tomorrow and the one the school is giving him for the pyschoeducational is today. I just hope that I can get some answers soon. If he does have the bi polar or oppositional defiance disorders as well (which from reading everything here I'll bet he does) the sooner I can get help for him the better. Nothing is worse than having the school know these appointments are coming up and yet still getting calls from them complaining about his behavior. I can't make the appointments come any quicker so calling me not to tell me about an incident but to complain about him just makes my blood boil!

Jenn - posted on 01/19/2009

yeah my kids have to be up at 5:45 am to get on the bus by 6:45 am.  my husband  gets them up and going which is not always easy!!  the one real good thing with my son is that he sleeps great!!!!  they are in bed by 7:30pm.  yeah turning back the clock would be so great.  more so for all of these kids'!!

Denise - posted on 01/19/2009

Jen, I can see why you didn't switch schools that is a long bus ride. I am glad things are better this year. I am sure that brings you some peace. We recieved the Family First Services after a few hospitalizations. It has been a very longgggg road to get services. I wish I could have known then what I know now. Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad. Oh well can't turn back the clock.



Hollie, distration can work at times. We have tried that with my DD we also would have her take a shower. Another way to change the mood. My DD was raging at times and that was the worst as she is our oldest and the other children were at times in danger of flying objects. We changed her meds took years to get it but I was so greatful the rages ended. Stimulants of any kind can bring them up.

Hollie - posted on 01/19/2009

my son is 4 and half and has adhd, no meds, distraction sometimes helps him, or taking him away from the stressful situation, but also be aware not to get in the way of arms legs etc trying to hit or break things or hurt you, giving him space away from everyone sometimes help, we leave him alone until he comes out to talk to us as long as it is not life threatning what he is doing...

Hollie - posted on 01/19/2009

distraction , anything that will put her focus away from the violent physical stuff, i my self have bipolar and my hubby figured when i was goin into a manic episode that putting me in a room with something i could focus on to calm down at times helped, not always but sometimes.

he would pick up that my mood had drastically changed and start talking to me about a cd i was looking forward to buying, or a night out to see friends etc to calm me, or try to convince me to deep breathe and scream into a pillow, hug the kids or him etc, not much but it has sometimes stopped me from destroying, self harm etc and calmed and d relaxd me , hope u can get something out of my suggestions. hav a nice day :)

Jenn - posted on 01/19/2009

Michelle,  That is great to hear on your daughter, maybe now she can get settled and things will go better for all of you!!!  It is so hard to watch your child go through all of this and not be able to make it all better for them.  Good luck to you and your family with the Abilify (it is working for my son)

Jenn - posted on 01/19/2009

denise,  i did go to the principal and he was suprised that i was not included or consulted before they did the letters.  we did consider a different school but unfortunately  the bus ride would have been 2 hours (it is an hour now) and we did not have the financial means to drive him every day.  there is a new principal this year and his teacher has been wonderful.  it is like he is not even at the same school!!  the program my son was in sounds a little like the family first one but not as long.  CMH set it up for us trhorgh a family intervention service.  but luckly my son has a great counselor and looks forward to going to see her.

Nicole - posted on 01/19/2009

My 11 year old son has been on Concerta for 5 years now.  His grades are wonderful but there's times when he acts out.  Not so much at school but at home.  A year ago, we had him tested for bipolar and was told he was fine.  He has moments where he'll just be extremely sensative and start crying.  Other times he seems mad at the world.  I'm not sure if it's a side-effect from the ADHD drugs or not.  He's had his moment as well where he's trashed his room and was throwing things.  We've taken him to counseling, but it seems like things only work for so long...

Sara - posted on 01/19/2009

My son's psychiatrist told me that it is rare to have a child who is strictly ADD or ADHD.  She said that there is almost always an underlying disorder, but that the research into childhood mental illness is still developing and they don't know everything.  My son has a differential diagnosis of Oppositional Defiance Disorder/Bipolar Affective Disorder with ADHD.  I have tried a lot of different therapies.  The best for him is a combination of psychotherapy andd meds:  a stimulant (Concerta 36mg) for focus at school (and only at school) and a low dose mood stabilizer.  We tried a dry spell over the summer and fall without any anti-depressants but he was extremely agitated/angry/moody/depressed.  We recently started him again on Abilify 2mg per day and it has made him much more centered.  He was on Risperdal before the "dry" spell, but he complained that it always made him too drowsy.  He says the Abilify is much better.  I have seen a nice improvement...I have my loving son back.  Good luck to you and let us know how your daughter does on the Abilify.

Denise - posted on 01/19/2009

Michelle, that is great news...now you know and can do your research. I will be interested in knowing how the abilify works for your daughter. How old is your daughter? And please don't forget to start a journal especially now that she is started on a new med.

Michelle - posted on 01/19/2009

Well everyone, my daughter's appointment went very well today. The behavior health doctor also believes that it has been bipolar from the beginning, especially since my daughter has been better the past few days without the ADD meds. She has put her on Abilify 1mg to start to help with the mood swings. So hopefully we are on the right track. Thank you again everyone for your imput.

Denise - posted on 01/19/2009

The family first program was with us for many months, july until Feb. and the only reason that they had to close was because my DD had taken off again. The insurance company would not pay for it any longer since DD refused to attend the sessions. Sad. They were a godsend for the rest of the family. Especially me. Sounds selfish but I do not know how I would have the knowledge or the spirit I have today without them.



It is a home based therapy program. Your local crisis center should be able to give you telephone numbers.



jen, I hope that teacher was reprimanded (sp?). My heart goes out to you. Have you looked into an alternitive school for your son? We did this and it really didn't work but I have heard of many good turn outs.

Jenn - posted on 01/19/2009

Denise, How long will they work with you with the Family First Plan?  We had something similar but it was only for 12 weeks.  We had a gentlemen who came to the house once a week and checked on both of my sons' at school once a week or more if he was in town.  My son loved this and did very well with him.  He is back with his counselor 2-3 times a month and I go in wth him or my husband and we talk about what is going on with him and then we leave the room so he can have his own time with her.  Liz  I agree with you some Dr. do not know  enough.  When we first took my son to the ped. he gave us a folder with info on different meds in it and told us to pick one and he would give us the script for it!!!!!  We did not go back to him!!   It was very good to have the gentleman we had at the begining of school my son had a very bad year last year and sadly we did not realize it was partly the teacher.  We went to all meeting she wanted to have when anything came up with our son.  In the end she had all the kids' in his class write him letters' stating why do you act so bad-- if you were good you might have more friends.  Needless to say a week later some kids' were laughing at the other end of the room and my son had a big blow up!!  He wanted to kill himself.  They called the police and DHS because they could not control him (my husband was on his way to the school and they knew this).  They wanted him taken to the hospital but we ended up taking him to his counselor  on an emergency visit.  He was suspended for two days and my husband and I decided that one of us would go to school with him every day till he was done for the year (we did this for 3 weeks).  My younger son will be going into 2nd grade next year and he will NOT have this teacher!!!!  Then I found out this summer that this teacher used to be a special ed teacher!!!!!!

Liz - posted on 01/19/2009

Denise, I am going to look into the Family First Plan.  I have never heard of that.  Also, that is really true about stimulants, and Jenn, we also learned that anti-depressants work the opposite in BPD.  Thanks to all of you for your comments.  Kudos to you Michelle for putting the adderall to the test by taking your daughter off.  I have found that doctors are not often very well educated in any special needs.  I am not surprised that your doctor didn' t think of it until you suggested it.  That is why it is so important that we stick together and support one another with ideas.

Jenn - posted on 01/18/2009

I have two sons' that are both ADHD.  So far the oldest one has ODD and last year we were given the diagnoses of mood disorder.  His phychologist calls it a mood disorder over bipolar because of his age (he was 7 when diagnosed).  He had been but on Zoloft by the pediatrician because he started threatening suicide at age 7.  He got worse in just a couple of months with the Zoloft and the dose was increased.  He is also on Concerta.  When he saw the ped. psycologist she told us someone with a mood disorder should not take Zoloft because it will work oppisite on them.  She put him on Abilify.  He is doing better now but still has some mood issues.  We just work with him on these.  Just make sure if you are not comfortable with the psychologist that you look for another one.  The first one we had was not the greatest.  We would drive 1 1/2 hours to his office and be in with him for 5 minutes!  His current psychologist is great she talks with him and watches how he interacts with us and her questions if he is upset she will listen to him and talk to him about it, we did not have the with the other one.

Denise - posted on 01/18/2009

Michelle, Great job on your part with the meds and your research. Most doctors do not know enough about BPD to even try to diagnosis an adult let alone about a child. That is why we as parents need to be aware and informed. I wish you the best with the behavior health doctor. Therapy is very very important.

Michelle - posted on 01/17/2009

Thanks for your story and advise Denise. I have been doing a lot of research and I truely believe my daughter was misdiagnosed with ADD. I have tried a little experiment of my own. I have taken her off the ADD meds (Adderall XR) for the last 3 days. We have had less attitude and meltdowns. She has also been going to sleep a lot better. She doesn't seems as quick to fly off the handle if you know what I mean. She has been telling me lately that the Adderall made her feel weird and I had to fight with her to take it. Funny how her pediatrician never thought about the bipolar until I brought it up. Nor did he suggest me taking her off the meds to see what would happen. I'm glad in that aspect that we are going to start seeing a behavior health doctor who is more specialized in this behavior.

Denise - posted on 01/17/2009

Hi, i have a daughter who is diagnosed bi-polar 1 with rapid cycling (mostly because she won't take meds). Any way this all started around 8 yrs old by the time she was 11 they (teachers and tests) were saying she was ADHD. Wrong! after years of different drugs, tests and doctors (including hospital stays) she was diagnosed. there were many other one like parent child conflict disorder...can you believe they have that? crazy stuff. Anyway, turns out that some children with BPD cannot take stimulants of any kind after awhile. It actually makes them more aggitated and then they have rages. This happened to my daughter. Many children with BPD are misdiagnosed with ADD or ADHD. Especially girls. We have triedmany meds like Abilfy...was not good for her at all.



Here are a few things that I have learned over the years. When the child is raging refuse to talk to them until they calm down. have them go to their room. Do NOT engage in conversation until they are calm. That is hard to do but worth it. Therapy for everyone in the family. See if your family is eligable for a Family First plan. They come to your home.....best thing that ever happened to our family.



Also, the doctor is not always right! Keep a journal, I mean every day write down your childs moods. Sleep times and if there was any behavior issues. This will help you, child and doctors to get things right.



Do your research. Not everything works for everyone. I really wish there was a magic pill or patch but there isn't. Be greatful that you are catching this early and that your child is still young enough to have you give them the meds. make sure they take them.



Also, if your child states they are feeling weird on the meds get them to tell you what they mean the best way that they can so you can share that information with the doctors.



I am sorry that you are dealing with this and I hope the rages end soon for you. I know first hand how hard they can be to deal with and how much my daughter at times didn't even remember some of the things she said and did during them.



Sadly we still struggle with my daughter as like many with BPD she chooses to go off her meds as soon as she starts to feel ok.

Lisa - posted on 01/16/2009

You could have written the same sentences about my child.   She has been on Depakote for about 1 year, and Seroquel for about 3 before that.  When you finally get the right dosage, it helps.  However, we still have not found anything that controls it all the time.  Our doctor says that bi-polar disorder is a relatively new field for children.  I don't know of any answers for you and you daughter, but just know that there is another family dealing with the same issues.

Michelle - posted on 01/16/2009

Thank you everyone for your support, stories, comments and advise. I am so glad to know that I am not allow in dealing with this. I have wonderful boyfriend that is completely supportive and there for not just my stressful times but also there for my daughter. We go to the behavior doctor on Monday and I will post how it goes.

Liz - posted on 01/16/2009

I started reading more of this thread after I posted.  I just have to say, some of these sharings have just moved me to tears.  These bipolar babies are SUCH special children with great talent and the saddest thing is watching them be lost and their parents struggle to cope and help.  Amy's post was awesome.  She obviously has a lot of knowledge in this area.  It's an area none of us ever wanted to be versed in, but need to be.  Let's all remember, and I must remind myself, to be gentle on ourselves.  This is such a devastating illness. 

My older daughter also went through going on and off meds.  She currently is 27 yo and uses 4 meds including litium.  She has no insurance and recently decided to go off the lithium and became very depressed in 2 weeks.  She is on again and rebalancing.  It scares me so much because she just moved to California and I am so fearful of her being away from her support anyway.  But it looks like she is back on track.

She is an amazing story.  Much like Amy's son, there was little being done when she was young for this disorder and she really suffered.  By high school she was self medicating.  Eventually, she became drug addicted, bulimic, and alcoholic.  She has been sober and medicated appropriately for 4 years now.  She finished her bachelors degree, is a talented vocalist, and took the huge risk of moving to California where she could have much more opportunity in the arts.  Not to mention freedom from sinus infections from living here in the midwest. 

There is great hope for our children.  My son NEVER wants to go off his meds.  I have had so much more support for him all his life than my daughter had.  Both of them have had a lot of trouble with friendships.  But they are now enjoying success in those areas too.  My son ties his successes to his appropriate treatment and understands that his treatment is critical to his functioning.  I am SO grateful that he has had so many tools and that we have been able to help him to be autonomous in his own care. 

I am not naive.  He is a very immature 15 and still hasn't gone throught puberty.  Although he stays clear of drugs and alcohol, these are a common companion for the bipolar individual.  I pray that he will not take that road, but I am assured that I have done everything in my power to educate him and have appropriate expectations.  There is still so much to be done by way of academics and socialization.  But he is happy and pretty well adjusted behaviorally.  I have to remember that this in itself is a miracle and keep my expectations in check. 

Thanks to you all for sharing.  I know I will have rough days ahead, why would they stop now!!  And it is wonderful to know that you are all hear, each with your own successful experiences or sympathetic understanding to share. 

Liz - posted on 01/16/2009

Hi Michelle,

I have a 15 yo son who was diagnosed with bi-polar at the age of 6.  His angery out bursts were so abnormal and frightening, that he could not be contained.  There were many times when he picked up chairs and tried to swing them at one of us, and also came after us with knives.  (We had to hide the knives)  The most telling that he needed help was that his nature is generally very sweet and that this behavior was completely unrestrainable, and could not be predicted.  He went from his usual happy mood to over the top out of control in 2 seconds.  It was very frightening (especially for him) and he felt very ashamed of these behaviors.  He also has ADHD, which we have had to be very creative about treating, because the stimulants cause him to become aggressive.  It took a VERY long time (years) to find just the right medication combination for him so that he could function and have his moods under control.  Today he has a wide range of emotion and is able to manage his moods through most of them.  I really recommend that you get your daughter checked for this.  Also, try and ask around your community to find a great psychiatrist.  There can be very bad ones and very good ones.  If you are not finding a good fit, keep looking.  I went through 4 before I found one I really like and trust. 

About handling the outbursts-I learned restraining techniques when he was 3 bc thats when this all began and I wasn't going to medicate my 3 yo.  That was very difficult because he was like the hulk when he had these outbursts, where it seems his strength multiplied.  As he got older, I deployed other members of the family.  He could take it down a notch for some one else other than the person he percieved he was angry with.  His pediatrician also recommended that I call an ambulance, but I didn't have the heart to put him through that trauma.  I did talk to him about his behavior when he wasn't upset and tried to set up ground rules.  I expected him to go to his room when he had an outburst.  I made his room safe, so there was very little he could do to harm himself or any thing else.  I do have to say that I recently replaced trim, door and repaired holes in wall from the years of abuse to room.  I have always tried to teach him to take ownership of his condition and know that this is something he has to live with and manage and that I would always help him with it. 

How I got him to learn to go to his room is by letting him know, when he was calm, that if he got angry I would expect him to go to his room until he calmed down.  There would be consequences if he didn't.  I NEVER told him he was going to have consequences WHILE he was melting down, as that would only exacerbate thing.  During meltdowns, once in his room, I would check on him every couple of minutes and ask if he wanted comfort or help.  I constantly reminded him that he was safe and that this mood would pass and I was there for him-even though he was saying he hated me and wanted me, himself, or whomever else he felt angry with to die.  His melt downs were a huge crisis, and I used the best crisis intervention I could come up with to get through it.  I believe that if your child is really bipolar, you need meds and meltdowns are crisis that need drastic support that you don't find being used in the average household. 

There was NO WAY I was going to stop this behavior once started so it had to run its course and he needed to be assured that it would be okay.  These episodes lasted for 30 minutes to an hour.  If handled badly, they lasted for 2-3 hours.  My son could not be left with a babysitter or the babysitter would end up being abused. 

I have four children.  2 of them are bipolar.  My older daughter also had this, but she did not spin out as violently as my son.  The other 2 never acted like this.  I always had a lot of success with behavior management until my youngest son got bipolar disorder.  So I can also affirm that if your child is bipolar, the violence is not because of your parenting skills, it is just an awful symptom of the disease.  Don't give up.  Keep looking for solutions. Talking to others helps a lot with support, ideas, and tools. Best wishes

Ardeliah - posted on 01/15/2009

I'm starting to feel like I have been missing stuff. I just assumed that some of the behavior I have been seeing is because of puberty and hormones associated with it.

Daisy - posted on 01/14/2009

My 11 year old son is Bipolar and ADHD with OCD traits.  He is on Strattera 60 mg, Risperdal 1.25 mg & Lithium 900 mg daily.  Right now we are having a rough patch, the doctor and I want to adjust the meds some, but his dad is not wanting to lower anything, just increase.  When we increased the Strattera last month he hit me for the first time in a year and a half.  We have just recently started back to counseling, the hard thing for us has been finding a couselor that works well with him.  We had one but she moved out of state last December.  There is no perfect mixture, it can work will for a while, then it's like he isn't on it at all.  We never know what to expect from him, well, every time I tell him it's his turn to do dishes he immediately says "WHAT?" and tells me he is NOT going to do them.  Pretty much with any chore he doesn't want to do.  Anything he doesn't want to do in general he gets all attitude and tells me he isn't doing it.  He says that he hates me, that he wants to live at his dad's house (none of these things work, but he still says them). 

He does better on a regular schedule and I'm not so good with regular schedules, so some of his problems with me are because of my faults.  Overall he is doing better than he was 2 years ago, but it's a daily battle.

Becky - posted on 01/14/2009

Wow...it is so nice to hear that I'm not the only dealing with these issues with my son. He is 7...was diagnosed with ADHD in kindergarten,2006, it helped him during school for awhile, the dr put him on metadate. Then in 2008 he was diagnosed with Bipolar and Oppositional defiance disorder. He now takes metadate 2x daily and risperdal 2x daily and prozac one time daily. It is very exhausting. The moods were so bad that he was yelling, throwing things at me, threatening his sister, sayin hurt full things but 2 minutes later he was fine. My son now sees 2 counselors and pysch dr on a regular basis. Things have improved a bit but you never know what to expect from day to day or minute to minute.

Ardeliah - posted on 01/14/2009

Quoting Wendy:

My 7 1/2 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD, oppositional defiance, and a sensory input disorder.

So how is oppositional defiance defined and how does it differ from bi polar?I have been reading all of the posts here and alot of it sounds like my son. He has a touch of OCD where he likes to fuss with his hair until he has a small bald spot. Which we have managed to keep under control but he also likes to pick his nose. One of the worst behaviors you can have as a teenager to do in school but he always insists that he can't stop. Now over the last few months, (he is 13) he has started to have anger episodes where he will lose his temper to the point that he doesn't remember losing it. He is currently home on his second 3 day suspension in a month. We have an intake appointment at the childrens hospital next week which supposedly will help diagnose any more problems but that is next week and not today. I just wish everything I said didn't go in one ear and out the other. Literally he cannot seem to remember anything he is told.

Christa - posted on 01/11/2009

My son is on Vyvanse after having tried many of the other medications first with very negative responses.  Vyvanse was the one that seemed to have the least amount of problems for him.  At one point he became extremely self destructive and wanted to hurt himself (slamming head against the wall/ scratching his arms) and said he didn't see a reason for him to be alive.  We had to take him to the hospital for a 5 day observation.  They upped his medication and put him on Wellbutrin XL.  He was on that for a while, but had to take him off because things got worse with the addition of the wellbutrin. 

Christa - posted on 01/11/2009

My son is on Vyvanse after having tried many of the other medications first with very negative responses.  Vyvanse was the one that seemed to have the least amount of problems for him.  At one point he became extremely self destructive and wanted to hurt himself (slamming head against the wall/ scratching his arms) and said he didn't see a reason for him to be alive.  We had to take him to the hospital for a 5 day observation.  They upped his medication and put him on Wellbutrin XL.  He was on that for a while, but had to take him off because things got worse with the addition of the wellbutrin. 

Wendy - posted on 01/11/2009

My 7 1/2 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD, oppositional defiance, and a sensory input disorder. He takes Concerta for the ADHD (after trying several other medications), and I saw a drastic difference the day he started taking it. He still has problems dealing with certain stimuli, especially when in a nonstructured environment, so I began taking him to a behavior therapy clinic in our town. He goes Mon-Thurs to an afterschool group therapy session, and has an individual therapy session once a week. The psych at the clinic thinks that he might have depression and anxiety instead of or along with the other diagnoses, so over Christmas break we started taking welbutrin. It seems to have exacerbated the problems instead of helping. He is more angry, he will burst into tears with the slightest provocation, and for the first time, he actually became physical with one of his schoolmates. I have also wondered if he is bipolar, because one minute he is so happy he is practically giddy, and the next he is in tears or losing control. He told his school counselor and his therapist that he wants to kill himself, which he has never done before, so I stopped giving him the welbutrin, and are waiting to see the psych again to discuss possible trying something else.

Christa - posted on 01/11/2009

Our oldest is 9 1/2 and he has been diagnosed w/ADHD, possible OCD (which I'm positive of) and now I am almost positive he is bipolar.  Amy, he sounds just like your situation.  So my question is, who is the best person to have diagnose him.  We have a pyschiatrist and  we are also switching to a new psychologist for additional counseling time.  He is going through puberty early and his outburst can be quite violent.  He's also the sweetest and most gentle kid the next minute.  It's like he doesn't even realize it's happening.  When he's in the middle of it, he will sometimes cryout, "I don't know what is wrong with me" in the most anguished, tears streaming down his face....you can just imagine I'm sure.  The night before last, he was screaming to a pitch I don't even think was human and it went on for quite some time.  Any info would be greatly appreciated.

Stacey - posted on 01/09/2009

my son is on daytrena and it works really well for him.  you apply it in the mornings about an hr before you need it to work.  it lasts all day about 9 hrs and then remove it at night.  it is constant and you don't see any fluctuating of the moods on ti.  the one down side is the appetite suppression that you see with alot of the adhd meds.  My son has done better on this than any other medication that he has ever been on.

Michelle - posted on 01/08/2009

well it seems he may just be bipolar if non of the ADHD meds are working or making the symptoms worse. My daughter was on Vyvanse and had absolutely no control over her emotions or mood swings. I would strongly suggest getting him tested for the bipolar like I am having done with my daughter.