At my wits end with 14yo out of control...and I mean OUT OF CONTROL!!!

Angie - posted on 11/15/2011 ( 99 moms have responded )

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In April, I called the cops on my 14yo for throwing things & leaving the house at 8pm without permission. In June, I had to call them again. We began counseling through the school's counselor. July they were called again, August my mail was suspended because of the "kids" at my house terrorizing & threatening the mailman & I filed an out of control with juvenile in which he tested positive for pot & was ordered to substance abuse outpatient. Within 1-2 weeks, I found a bag a pot in his room & money missing from my room, he had an elevated drug test & his days were increased. When he went to his DJO (deputy juvenile officer Aug 23rd, he got a "stern" talk. Aug 29th he had another fit & I called the cops; while waiting for the cops to arrive, he wrapped a rope around his neck & locked himself in the bathroom. He came out before they arrived & was taken to the ER, then to acute inpatient. He came home Sept 5th diagnosed with ODD and on 3 meds. By Sept 8th, he hacked my wifi password (unknowing to me) so when he "earned" his ipod back Sept 14th, he had access to contact his friends, was back sneaking out & smoking pot. When I found out he had internet access, Sept 18th, I confiscated his ipod. I found out he had a facebook account that he had me blocked from & hacked it. I found out about the sneaking out, stealing money, drug use/selling, breaking into cars, etc that had been going on all summer. He had another elevated drug test that week & his outpatient days were increased again. I notified his DJO who had another "stern" talk with him Sept 23rd & the next day, once again, he went the suicide route/threats & he were back at acute inpatient. This time, we got him accepted into an inpatient behavior/drug abuse facility. It was supposed to be for 60 days, but insurance would only approve 3 weeks. He was discharged on Oct 20th on 9 meds, but we only made it 30 minutes up the highway before he began punching himself in the face, threatening to jump out of the car, and then finally wrapping a seatbelt around his neck, choking himself. A cop helped me get him to the hospital and he was sent back to acute inpatient. He came home October 26th on 6 meds, but dropped the bombshell before he was discharged that he was sexually abused by my ex husband 3-4 years ago (we've been separated for 5 1/2 years with no contact). They have to pursue it as if it's true. Nov 3rd, he had another fit about not making up missing assignments or doing the tutoring program after school (he's not allowed to come home alone after school). This escalated into holes kicked in the wall, cussing me out, jamming my bedroom lock & at one point telling me he was going outside for a smoke break, cigarette in hand. The cops took him to juvenile, where he currently is. We had court last Monday; juvenile is recommending a 60 day inpatient program (not funded by insurance, so no early out), he disagrees & has requested an attorney & has that right. I have to pay for it, but am not privy to their conversations. The judge has found it not safe for him to return home, but is not going to force him to treatment because if he's being made to, he won't get better, so has held him in juvenile for 2 weeks so we can get another psychiatric evaluation. Now his father has been notified by juvenile & he thinks him on parole for felony DWI's, no drivers license for 10 years, $15,000 behind in child support, & not even his own place to live will get custody of him because now he has documentation I can't control him. I'm not letting that worry me at all; it's more of an aggravation than anything. I just don't know what is going on with him. I found out the 7 days he was home with NO privileges, NO unsupervised time (except when I'm sleeping), that he ordered 2 adult PPV movies (I now have that blocked; thought it was). It's like he's doing anything, everything to break rules. They've switched his meds up so much & honestly I don't see any difference except they make him tired. He's had diagnosis from ODD, impulsive control disorder, possible bi-polar, depression, anxiety so like I said I am at my wit's end. His psychiatrist appt is Friday & we return to court on Monday. I just wish someone had some answers....

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Angela - posted on 03/12/2012

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We are just so desperate as you already know due to your own experiences.We truly feel we have already lost our battle because he is so ill !I have told the Dr. and the therapist that I am scared of him and so are his little brothers.He constantly tries to run away into a very bust st. where im sure if he made it would be hit by a car.He verbally describes how he will hurt or injur me if given the chance and it is horrible! Sat. before the police came he threw everything he had in his room at my husband and I ! Even stuff on the walls .Than he began throwing furniture and very heavy objects at us .When he is like this he seem to be like a wild animal that is the best description except he is very verbally abusive.I am so worried they will send him home again this week , next week is spring break and I just cant be left alone with him and his 2 younger brothers it will be HELL! I have been on the phone and online for days now pleading for help.I am really hoping to get some positive news soon.Have they ever thought maybe your son had social issues or anxiety of some kind.He just sounds to have so many similarities to my son. Is he really good with numbers and word patterns .It took me seeing 6 different Dr.'s to diagnose with a syndrome I always new he had since a baby!And that is Aspergers . One positive thing I have read is that alot of these mental illness will change and become less severe when the body balances out after Pubery is over .Unfortunately I have a long way to go!I will add you and your son to my prayers tonight !

Angie - posted on 03/12/2012

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Oh wow Angela...best of luck to you. My oldest actually moved out partially because of my youngest's behavior. My youngest son is actually small for his age so I thought some of it was trying to "prove" something to his friends, but it as escalated way beyond that. The doctors have ruled out bipolar and ADHD. They are adamant it is conduct disorder and if not gotten in check will be Antisocial Personality Disorder when he turns 18. They say he has to find a reason to care & want to make better choices. He is kind of freaking out right now, called me last Monday night promising, promising, promising he will do better if he can come home because there is a good chance he may get sent to DYS, but then he called Tuesday night & found out we were having a meeting Wednesday that he wasn't going to be included in and although the call ended good, I haven't heard back from him, but I've also not had any bad reports. They are transferring him early this week back to detention; the hospital has stabilized him as much as they can. The doctors recommendation is also that it is unsafe for him to be at home. So I don't know if they will wait until our April 5th court date or set a sooner one and I'm not sure what our next step will be I found a 12-18 rehabilitation program ran by the state, you have to be court-ordered there, and although the DJO had never heard of it said it's not an option because of funding...not sure how she would know that if she's never heard of it, but then again I've voiced my feelings in prior posts of how lazy she is.



Good luck on finding a residential program...my biggest battle was with insurance companies not convinced you have enough failed attempts, wanting 6 months of failure before approving and this got so bad so fast within a matter of months...think they need to walk a day in our shoes before they decide what is "too bad"...in a way it's better that he's in juvenile's custody..no getting kicked out early. Maybe that's a path you can explore..have you considered filing an out of control on him with juvenile? Not that it will be guaranteed help, but...paying for a private wilderness camp was not possible with my finances. Again best of luck to you :)

Angela - posted on 03/12/2012

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I wanted to also add my son is gifted EXTREMLY gifted with a very very high IQ and in fact that is what led to the Aspergers diganosis.Alot of gifted peolpe have strange behaivours ,and act just a little different .My son was always like that until puberty hit than it blew into complete insanity!To cope he counts alot and also figured out how to pick a security lock on a door in the mental health facility he is in with a palstic butter knife he stole and somehow got out to the playground with ,all while not being seen by nurses or security cameras.He is so smart it scares the heck out of me!

Angela - posted on 03/12/2012

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my 11 year old son just became this way about 2 months ago.Now he has been diagnosed with several mental problems and so that makes it harder.It all started when the puberty hormones started.He is big for his age and has started puberty early and that is a side efect of one of his disorders (aspergers) .He also has a mood disorder that makes him act very much like the description of your son.He has thrown me to the ground,thrown things at me and his father actually just sat. he threw pretty much everything in his room at us even ripping things off the walls to throw at us. It took both of us to restrain him from running out of the house into harms way and we are not tiny people ,my husband is over 6ft tall and over 200lbs but when he becomes like this he has like super strength from the adreniline and it is so scary.He screams for hrs on end and tears everything up in his path .He scratches himself until he bleeds .We have to younger sons in the house as well and this is just causing them so many problems.Sat. was the 1st time we have called the police the first 2 time we took him to the ER and the mental health crisis unit.But this episode was so bad the police had to be called.To me it sounds like your son has more going on than just ODD and a bad additude .I have done hours and hours gone without sleep for days researching and educating myself on this topic and your son may also have a mood diorder .Being that he is older than my son they would be more specific and maybe call him Bi-Polar. I am so sorry I feel your pain and frustration , I am begging someone to help us by referring him to a long term treatment facility so he does not keep comming home for 2 days and traumatizing the other 2 kids we have.Also he is miserable here he needs to be in a controlled enviroment until he is well again and if he is well again.They have tried so many meds and nothing happens it just keeps getting worse.There is very little help for children like this I am finding no one that will help right now!

Angie - posted on 03/05/2012

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well...tomorrow will be 6 weeks and I wish I had better news to report. He has been diagnosed with Conduct Disorder..no meds can help, but they can help him "pause" before impulsive reactions so he's down to 2 meds, 1 that helps him pause, 1 that helps with drug seeking. He is still not doing well & continues to be impulsive and aggressive. He broke his hand punching a wall, has been in several physical altercations with other residents and staff, including throwing chairs at staff one night for not taking him to the gym at midnight. He has had to be restrained & injected several times to get him to calm down from one of his fits. He's back to being adamant about not coming home after our 1st family therapy 3 weeks ago..he says I disrespected him by calling the cops on him, kicking a hole in the wall is not that big of a deal. He disowned me 1 1/2 weeks ago and is not speaking to me after a wake up call conversation about where his path is going. He seemed to do better for a few days, but is now back to acting out & self injury because his case worker told him he is too young for independent living and reiterated he is on the path to detention. Another call tonight for swinging at staff and trying to bite them. We are supposed to have a meeting this week to determine what to do with him. The hospital is making the recommendation he doesn't come home...so I'm not sure what the other options are..looks like possibly detention, possibly back to retry the 60 day program, there's a 12-18 month behavior modification facility, but they said he needs to be more stabilized than he is right now. It makes me sad because it doesn't seem like anyone can get through to him..the doctor keeps saying we have to wait for that switch to flip and he has to find a reason to care...trying to hang in there, but so worried about his future...

Angie - posted on 02/06/2012

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my newest update ~ things aren't going well, he will be there 2 weeks tomorrow and they began reducing the meds. They are not sure if the defiant behavior is being caused from that or just his normal behavior. Last Monday, his behavior escalated to being strapped to his bed and given injections to calm him down over an early bedtime. Last Thursday, he was caught fake-taking his medicine, stockpiling it & crushing it up and snorting it. He also tried to give one to another resident. He was put on 1 on 1 staffing, 24/7. Saturday, he was upset over rules, punched the wall, and had to be taken to the hospital for a hand fracture; I talked to him after this happened ~ 1st time I have heard from him all week, back to being very defensive with me again. They have a treatment planning meeting again today and we have family therapy Wed evening. On top of all this, I found out his DJO hotlined me to DFS for child abandonment when he was transferred back to detention after getting kicked out of treatment. Seriously?? When she called me asking if I was going to retake custody ~ I reiterated the psychologist report, treatments reports, and the new psychiatrists report wanting to detox him...I didn't understand how she felt that was even an option when a skilled facility could not keep him in check. Why would she waste DFS's time BEFORE a judge had ordered him home? And why wouldn't DFS question the situation before just doing something? My home check went fine as she checked for running water and food in my fridge...I just think it was a total waste of taxpayer's money. By the way, the DJO still hasn't returned my calls, her supervisor has not returned my calls, and she hasn't returned any of the new facility's calls either....very frustrating...

Angie - posted on 01/30/2012

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thanks Dierdra ~ it is extremely frustrating & while I don't think it's something I've done...I feel like I have the responsibility to do everything in my power to get to the resources to help him. We tried a weekly plan, we have tried a contract, he has a level chart...it's been made as clear as can be he is not the adult & that his behavior will not be tolerated here, he'll do so-so for a couple days, but then it's like living on a powder keg, you never know what "thing" he now doesn't want to do will set him off & he is determined he won't do it & you can't "make" me. I will get you whatever help I can, but I will never be ok with cussing me out, holes in my wall, things thrown at me, stealing, lying, selling and doing drugs...that will not be my new normal and it's HARD!!!! Although I have hope in the med detox, reality is it just puts us back to the openly & blatent defiance stage so I know there's a ton more work ahead & probaby a whole lot more tears & frustration. @ Debra, I've actually wondered if ~ you know how some guys drink whisky & they're mean, but others don't. Pot is known for it's mellowness, but I wonder if it affects him differently & brings out the defiance, no fear of authority. The doctors absolutely think him doing pot and other pills after he got on medication definitely affected him, but he's been on meds, no street drugs, since October & still continues the defiance, but with a lot more physical aggression...I just have to take it day by day & keep praying :)

Debra - posted on 01/30/2012

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Sounds like pot is a mood stabilizer that he can handle to bad it isnt legal thc works wonders for plenty of people it has a bad rep as gateway drug though studies show it isn't pot that leads to stronger drug use it's evil greedy drug dealers

Deirdre - posted on 01/30/2012

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Dear Angie,

I feel your pain. My daughter 16 has also been quite the handful. I hear all that you have been saying and I can see you like a women possessed trying to plug up the holes as they appear, the problem is you only have ten fingers and the holes are are turning into cracks. Unfortunatley there is a time that you have to relize that you were and are a good mother, these are your childs choices, he has been shown love and caring but finds joy in hurting you. Many people have grown up in terrible conditions, with terrible things happening to them, have had disorders but have never disrespected there mother in such away.



I know at first you try to ignore it all and hope that one day you will wake up and it will be like before, but I am sorry to say this is not the case. When your in a train wreck the first thing you have to do is save yourself before your can help others, this is the same for you as a parent. You are important and you have value if this is not working for you after all you have done and you have done alot as I have read it might be time for you to take time out, for you to rebuild your life. Let him go and live with his father, or go into foster care sometimes children have to learn the grass is not always greener and if it is for them and they are happy well you can be happy in the knowledge he is happy. But if he wants to return then you must write up a contract, yes thats right a contract these are the rules and if your not willing to comply you can not live here. Let your child know he is loved and by loving him you will not accept behaviour that is not becoming of him. Let him know you only wish well for him and keep in contact but don't invite him back to your home until the rules you set out can be followed. Again I know its heart breaking you feel that it must be something you have done or its the conditions he has, but understand they are your excuses, you have done the best you can ,love yourself, forgive yourself and everything else will fall into place.

Angie - posted on 01/29/2012

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well, the transfer got approved by the judge & he's been at the hospital since Tuesday and they've already started the med detox. He still seems ok with me; I seen him Saturday when I got back into town, but he's already got into a fight with another resident & knocked him out. We have a treatment planning session Tuesday, so that should be interesting. I'm getting non-stop voicemails from his father (I don't answer anymore) wanting to know what is going on, screaming at me that I put my son in a psych hospital. I guess he should've showed up to a court hearing or his pyschological test...maybe then he'd know, don't have the energy, time, or patience to deal with his alcoholic rants and raves. I'm a little worried about how this works with insurance ~ when he was in detention & detention's treatment, since he was in the state's custody, he was covered under Medicaid, but I got an insurance notice saying he was approved for 6 days at the psych hospital...I sure hope if they don't approve longer, Medicaid kicks in...this will take 30-60 days...I'm still hanging in there :))

Tabitha - posted on 01/26/2012

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so sorry to hear about ur son, i have an 13 yr old who i have asked to be taken unto foster care,as he was literally involved with the police daily, and violent to me and his two younger sibilings, i wish i had some answers!!!

Angie - posted on 01/20/2012

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well...the newest update....I can't stand our justice system or I think I've been stuck with a lazy DJO..juvenile did approve him to go the med detox, but while waiting for a bed to open, my son got into an altercation with another client, got kicked out, & sent back to the detention side. The DJO called yesterday, said we have court Monday, & we need to make a decision what to do with him ~ choices are I retake custody or he is placed in DYS (Division of Youth Services) for group/foster home placement. When I asked about the med detox, she told me we have no guarantee of that happening & when I asked for a week to try to finalize that, she told me detention isn't a long term solution...very, very frustrating ~ to me a week isn't long term & the judge let him sit in there for a month when he was being stubborn about going to treatment. It took her almost a week to approve detox so I don't understand why now a decision has to be made NOW...not to mention I leave Sunday for a software training seminar in Atlanta & will not be here next week. I made several phone calls & was able to talk to the med detox facility...they will accept him, will possibly have a bed open Tuesday, but doesn't want to get my hopes up & will fax all my necessary paperwork today. I've been in contact with them for a week ~ she knew my out of town situation. The only thing we don't know is how juvenile coordinates with them & since she had left a message with DJO that morning & still had not received a call back, still didn't know, but was going to keep calling. So a very rough day yesterday, but my plan in place is to turn their system around on them...I'm going to have my son request his public defender & either request a continuance or get the courts approval to do the med detox & send a notorized letter. I don't know if I can have someone be there in my place, but I'm going to check on that too...next couple days will be trying...

Carmen - posted on 01/11/2012

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Is good to heard a little progress in your son, I'm happy for that little big step. I was reading in one of you reply that you guys lost two. That is probably one of his reason of his anger too. Is long the patch you start walking with him and he is looking at you like a supermom when this ordeal end and his life get back on track. My mom use to say and still does is when they be old enough to understand they will the sacrify we do and they will understand that mother whatever in there hands for them no mater what. You are my hero,every mother is fighting for the good of our kids. God is good and see the effort to guide you son to take the right way. God is with you and your son.

Donna - posted on 01/11/2012

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Dear Angie, yes it does wear you down in all areas: I have spent $$ trying to help my son, have done everything the "professionals" have suggested for me to do, and for my husband to do. and then some. It is very sad, but I am in a better place than a few years ago because I do a lot more for myself than I used to such as seeing a therapist, working out, meditation and prayer. My heart is broken and I feel helpless. My aunt tells me, "you've done all you can, you're a wonderful mother" but I get no satisfaction from all that I've done, or will continue to do, as long as my son is not doing good. Yes, it takes a toll on the family, on the marriage, on everything. Yet, as mothers, I beleive God has given us a strength, that may fade at times, but always comes back, for us to take care of, and do whatever we can for our children. The best of luck to you too Angie, I will continue to follow this post and your updates, hoping and praying for a breakthrough for you and your son. God bless.

Angie - posted on 01/11/2012

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wow Donna ~ I can't even imagine your frustration...I've only been dealing with the real tough stuff for almost a year..it wears you down ~ emotionally, physically, and financially. It makes you sad when you are counting down the days (years) until they are not your day-in, day-out responsibility anymore ~ it's certainly NOT how you want to feel about your own child, but then on the other hand, you just want to have a "normal" life, whatever that definition is. I would try not to worry about NYS law until you had to; a lot can change in 4 years..best of luck to you :)

Donna - posted on 01/11/2012

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Dear Angie, it really sounds like things are moving in the right direction, thank-god! My son was not in gifted, but was in accelerated math - he managed to pass the regents in 8th grade, yet fail the course (because he did not do any homework). My son has always been a "difficult" child. Never sleeping much as a baby, always pretty irritable, could not take overstimulation (at family gatherings, we always had to leave early because after an hour or so, he would go ballistic - as a baby!) he was diagnosed with add in 4th grade - mostly because he refused to do any work, and wanted to do whatever he wanted. At home, I struggled to get him to do his homework; we would spend 4 hours every night - he would dillydally forever. I was getting anxiety attacks. Once he was on ritalin, he was SO much better, and his grades were so good that whenever I asked for services at the school (social skills group, homework club, counseling) they would turn me down and look at me as if I was crazy - but I knew. And we've had numerous charts, calendars, schedules (morning, afternoon, and before bed), incentives, etc. etc. I did that for years! Now, it's as if I never did a thing - all out the window. When he refused to take his meds, at the onset of puberty, his grades started to slip - and have continued to slip - yet he does not make the connection - he dropped the friends he had from kindergarten and made new (bad) friends - and finally the school gave him a 504 plan (in the 8th grade), upped it to an IEP at the end of 8th grade. He went from mainstream classes in 8th grade, to inclusion classes last sept, to contained classes now - and he is failing them. So it has been a downward spiral. I understand when you say all fingers were pointed at you. The same thing happened to me, and I belong to a parent support group with kids in these situations, and I hear a lot of the same. I have been seeing a psychologist for 2 years now, to help me deal with this, and she has also counseled me similar to what you said about "Love & Logic": to not feed the anger and the louder he gets, the quieter I get. I have also read many books on defiant and ODD kids and know about natural consequences: in fact, my husband and I consciously try to make the consequences as close as possible to "natural" consequences as possible (it takes some thought at times....). Last night, we were at this parent support group, and some of the stories are horrifying: this mother's daughter is shooting heroin and the mother cannot prevent the daughter from having the dealer come to her house! we also found out that when the child turns 18 you cannot by NYS law - put them out if they have no means of supporting themselves and/or are going to school. But, you have no say as to what they do. amazing.

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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Thanks Carmen...it started about 2 years ago and his anger/defiance was mainly directed at me..no problems at school until he quit turning in assignments and was barely passing. I think he was trying to get put in alternative school because some of his friends were telling him how easy it was. Over the past 2 years it has gotten progressively worse, more openly defiant, & completely out of control in the last several months, I think partially contributed to running with a bad group of kids & involving drugs. Now it's not just me, but anyone who "makes" him do something he don't want to and he's been in some type of facility since the end of September, with the exception of one week at home, but we did have the psych evaluation last Thursday, our 2nd one, but I don't count the 1st one -complete waste of time and money ~ we are waiting for juvenile's approval to transfer him to a hospital to completely detox & start over per the new psychiatrists recommendation; the good news is he is in complete agreement now, he doesn't seem as angry anymore...I've actually had 2 weeks now of not being cussed out ~ I so like leaving therapy with hugs & love yous, than "f" you :) I let him know in therapy tonight no matter where this road leads us, he will always have me in his corner, by his side, loving him & fighting for him to be healthy and happy..I just keep praying we are finally moving in the right direction :)

Carmen - posted on 01/10/2012

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I recommend a complete evaluation from a good psyquiatry,my question, this behavior start when he turn 14 or he was like that and turn to worst? What i see is that he is angry,really angry. My 15y/o start acting when i was making decision that affect there stability. I call the cops two or three times. I got him with a group of friend who were smoking pot. Thanks God he wasn't but was the same. I sit with him and talk to him. Take a break so you can think clearly. It hard but with clear head solution come easely. Try to talk to him and what bother him, what is make him mad? At the beggin maybe a little frusted but with patience and love he will see that you there for him. Tell him you love him that whatever is making him mad you can help him.

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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My son was also in the gifted program, very intelligent, testing on the 10th grade math level in 5th grade, honor student & I have no idea how they will handle his 9th grade, he does do schooling in the facility, enough to be promoted to 10th? I don't know, but I never had an ADD/ADHD diagnosis until all this started which is why I strongly disagreed with it & made me mistrusting the so called professionals know what they are doing. MTS is like behavior modification therapy and it involves therapy work in your home. One of the therapists also gave me some Love & Logic CD's for free, thank goodness, that tries to help you to keep your sanity while going through this. It's all about handing the problem back to the child, easier said than done sometimes, and not letting it stress you out. I've used some of it; things like saying I love you too much to argue with you right now or responding with oh, what a bummer when he's upset about something, it's basically staying calm & not feeding into the argument. I'm surprised in your case with the behavior problems at school that legal officials haven't gotten involved; in my case, I had no issues at school which didn't really help because all fingers were pointed at me, that I was doing something wrong because I was the only one having issues, since then it has expanded to others so now, not so much anymore; in fact, where he's at now cannot believe HOW I handled him by myself, when they a trained staff and facility are struggling....gee thanks! lol..I've been told by therapists that structure and consistency works best with defiant kids, not that I had any luck, but that's something to try...a chart in black and white of expectations/rewards. I'm not sure what privileges your 14yo has, but mine had reduced his to none when he was at home..and honestly, I think a lot of this stems from not only are we battling puberty and growing pains, we are also battling other parents lack of parenting...why do we need to be so involved? why do we have curfews? why do we expect decent grades? Kids today have no fear of repercussions, whether it be from parents, schools, or law officials, and then when you do have an issue, the professionals just give them a pill to shut them up, nobody holds them accountable for real behavior...but those are just my thoughts...

Donna - posted on 01/10/2012

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Well Angie, I can see things are going slowly for your son, but it does seem they are going in the right direction. I feel your frustration, I know, I know. Hang in there. Hopefully he will get off the meds properly in hospital, and they can reevaluate his behavior. Yes, my son is much like yours, thinking he can do whatever he wants whenever he wants - some one else mentioned the "crazy eyes" in this post - I never thought about it, but when I read the post, I realized I had seen them too. I think the SPOA is the same as MTS (intensive mental health treatment). My son has not yet been before a judge. All this happens before that. Eventually, if things don't work, he will end up there. Yes, some of the wilderness programs seem excellent - of all the ones I researched, anasazi.org seems the best - 9K for 12 weeks. sigh. I'm glad to hear you are communicating better. That is a good sign, and encouraging. I know when I sent my son to my sister's house (he stayed there for a month before she sent him back) he refused to talk to me, was very very angry with me. it hurt so much. but now, he tells me he did not like it there and wanted to come home very badly - you can never tell what they are really thinking, they seem to cover everything up with anger. it may be the only "acceptable" teenage emotion to them. who knows? But yes, there is some comfort in knowing there are others going thru this. On the other hand, it makes it very scarey. What is wrong with our society that there are so many boys going astray?

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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That's exactly what the new psych wants to do and why. It's frustrating because the judge ordered a psych evaluation last November and we could only get an appt for the one he previously seen who I didn't like in the short time frame provided. His evaluation was a joke & a waste of a $40 copay, he just compiled all the diagnosis & said every doctor believes their diagnosis is correct ~ wish I could type it with his foreign accent..lol...anyways this new psych has made the most sense yet, but you can't just stop meds, it has to be in a hospital setting & they have to get permission from juvenile to transfer him ~ still waiting on approval. In the meantime, he's had a couple more writeups, but his behavior has calmed down some. His juvenile officer is supposed to be meeting with him today & I guess deciding if he gets unsuccessfully discharged back to detention or if she will approve the transfer. I have family therapy tonight so hopefully he's still there, nobody's told me any different. I guess I'm lucky in a way because right now I don't have the day-in day-out battle at home...and oh, I sure don't miss those struggles and therapy? has it helped? we are communicating better the last couple sessions or should I say back to how we used to, without him cussing me out. I've never heard of PINS of AFY, so if he's gone in front of a judge to try different things, and this is not successful, what is their next step? Outreach sounds like our Comtrea program - outpatient substance abuse. Try searching behavior modification in your area or MTS therapy..your son seems like mine (minus the aggression)...just going to do what he wants to do when he wants to do it...the drugs are just the bonus part. If I could afford the wilderness programs they have out there, I would do it, but single mom..not happening..lol..best of luck to you and keep me posted how things are going...I know how tough it is not to have answers but it always helps when you don't feel like you're the only one going through it :)

Donna - posted on 01/10/2012

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Sorry Angie, did not answer your questions: my son is 14 also. He was diagnosed with add in the 4th grade and was on ritalin until the 7th grade. with puberty, all hell broke lose and is still ongoing. he is now in the 9th grade - and failing - suspended about 4 times already this year for cutting classes and leaving the campus. refuses to do any schoolwork. we took his "house chores" away from him and don't require him to do them anymore because he was saying that we were abusing him - child labor (all we aske d him to do was bring down the laundry, pooper-scoop the yard once a week, and clean his room). Now we tell him that his personal hygiene and school are his "chores". we've had the cops at our house 3 or 4 times. its been a long 3 years, and heartbreaking. my son was an honor student, and now i don't even know if he will graduate high school. this year was a total waste. he played basketball, was a boy scout, took guitar lessons, participated in St. baldricks -- all that has stopped - he refuses to do anything - no extracurricular activities - well, now there is no time for them: tues and thrs = Outreach and Wed = SPOA. we are constantly running around for his therapy. I had him tested for thryroid (low thyroid can cause psychotic conditions), Epstein Barr, Lyme disease, full blood work, and 5 hour glucose tolerance test. All these can cause mental symptoms. He was negative - except for slightly low blood sugar.

Donna - posted on 01/10/2012

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Hi Angie, Wow, he's on sedatives and can't sleep? Why doesn't the psych take him off all meds and start over? If they are not working, what is the point? There are so many harmful side effects....What about therapy? Is he making any progress there? We have been through the PINS route (Person in need of Supervision) its before going to a judge, they try different things to see if the behavior improves. AFY (Alternatives for Youth) also tries interventions, as does Hope for Youth. He is currently going to "Outreach", a drug rehab program 2x a week, where he is tested 2x a week, and does group therapy, family therapy, and we go to parent support group. A whole lot of yakking going on - no results - well, some results: he is clean, but that is about it (and I feel he is just biding his time). We already went through this program last year from march to june. One week after he graduated program he tested positive (we bought drug tests on uritox.com to home test him). So we gave him another chance, but then ended up signing him back up again for another 6 month program. I hear what you're saying about residential, but I, like you, am at my wits end, and we are not making any progress here. My son is seeing 5 psychologists - no progress. He is refusing any medication (but will self-medicate), and is resistant to therapy. If I could afford a private therapeutic boarding school (50-70K a year) I would send him asap. I am at a loss of what else to do. Thanks for the advice!

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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oh, and another thing I have found with residential treatment is they learn things they don't need to know..what are the good meds, bad behavior choices, cussing is acceptable, throwing trash cans when mad is acceptable...some of the kids have some severe issues going on and I think can actually be detrimental to helping kids that maybe haven't got to that point yet...just something I wanted to pass along from my experience :)

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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Hey Donna ~ he started with being somewhat defiant about a 1 1/2 years ago, refusing to clean his room, refusing to do homework, etc, but the incidents were every couple months ago or so..so normal teenage defiance testing a single mom?? so I thought, then it just seemed like he kept pushing, pushing, pushing...consequences didn't matter, he could beat the consequences whatever they were; he's going to do what he wants to do & there's nothing you can do about it...I'm with you, I think the drug use is just an extension of that mindset, but I truly think the meds have complicated the mindset. I am new to the mental health field and find it absolutely astounding doctors throw out meds for whatever the 14yo is "saying" they feel, not based on real symptoms, real behavior. One time my son told a doctor he was hearing voices ~ he thought it would be funny to see what the doctor would do. I don't believe they threw any new meds at him. What I liked about the psychiatrist is she reviewed everything from the beginning to the end ~ and in going over the history, she was astounded how many different doctors (3) have changed up meds multiple times from Aug-Dec. She said you don't treat kids that way, you have to introduce meds one at a time to see reactions & at this point, she's not comfortable making any changes because she don't know what has worked and what hasn't, and based on his behavior reports, it's not working, plus he's saying he can't sleep, which all his meds are sedatives & that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure where you are located, but if you suspect he's doing drugs, drive him to your juvenile office, they will drug test him, if he tests positive, they will put him on probation and have him do outpatient. Out of all the facilities, the ones that have been court-ordered have been the best. Even if you don't feel drugs are the issue, they have family therapy, individual and group therapy that can help you get to why, where, how it's come to this. I haven't had the best of luck with residential treatment and feel like months were wasted going that route~ it's been a constant fight with insurance on whether it's necessary & wanting to discharge early, and those facilities have been the ones just throwing meds to cover up the problem. How old is your son and how long have you been going through this? Best wishes and prayers back to you too...as you know, it's certainly not a boo-boo we can kiss and make all better; wish it was :)

Donna - posted on 01/10/2012

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Hi Angie, I check on your post often and feel the pain of what you are going thru. What happened with the psychiatrist that you liked who was going to start over with the meds and try one thing at a time? I agree with her 100% that your son was on too many medications. Any improvement this week? My husband and I are talking about residential treatment for our son. His behavior is not explosive, and he is not physically agressive, but he just does whatever he feels like with no concerns whatsoever. Cuts classes, leaves the school campus, is failing, smoking pot, LSD, - and everything we are doing: punishments, IEPs, PINS, AFY, Hope for Youth, Outreach, SPOA, is barely slowing him down the path of destruction. We too receive conflicting diagnosis. First he was diagnosed with ADD, now they say he has depression, but they have to treat his drug usage first. I think if the initial issue is not addressed, then more issues pile on top of that. I keep on argueing with them that the drug use is a symptom, and not the core problem. Perhaps with your son, the anger is an issue yes, but not the core problem. How was your son before he went haywire? Did the issues start with puberty, or were there issues before? That's what I hold onto and tell my son's psychs - what my son was like before, what I know were his issues before - because they are the same issues, only now they are magnifyed 100 times - and he is able to "hide" behind his anger, "hide" behind his blaming us as terrible parents, "hide" behind all sorts of rationalizations for the reason for his behavior. He doesn't know why he behaves the way he does (his brain doesn't work properly - he has no impulse control, and cannot understand consequences = ADD) but a lot of the social workers fall for his gimmicks and avoidant behaviors, and distorted reasonings that he cuts classes/steals the family car/etc/ because of this or that. I try to set them straight. My son had been seeing psychologists for months, and when finally I asked to speak with them - they were in shock when I told them what was going on - my son had never mentioned it. Stay close to his doctors - psychologists, psychiatrists, and pediatrician. I'm praying for you and your son.
donna

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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awww thanks Jen ~ believe me I also have my bad days where everything makes me cry because it is frustrating not having any answers, but I think that statement is true of you don't know how strong you are until you have to be, and just because you don't care for your child's behavior, doesn't mean you don't love him...I think all any of us parents want is to see our children healthy and happy :)

Jen - posted on 01/10/2012

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It is very encouraging to read about the strength you can still show....

That may sound confusing. I mean its a very stressfull and difficult situation.

Our own family situation can be stressfull and difficult...but not to these extent..yet..and I hope never.

But its encouraging to see that you can still remain strong, supportive, and the love is not gone.

That's very cool. I can tell you, if things get too horrendous over here, I will remember your courage etc from your own situation, and it will help another parent to stay strong and supportive.

Angie - posted on 01/10/2012

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Robin ~ I'm a little confused by your response...maybe you didn't read all of the posts..my son is court-ordered into a treatment program...we are very far past the point of encouraging him to not do drugs...he has had diagnosis given of ODD, ADHD, and even bi-polar...taking him to the gym or church is not an option as I don't have physical custody of him. Psychiatrists, psychogists, therapists, counselors, judges & juvenile officers all feel it would be unsafe for him to come home; however, I have in no way shape or form given up or turned my back, in fact, I go to every family therapy and every family visit whether he just cussed me out in our last phone call or not. I constantly tell him I love him, hug him whenever I can, and spend hours on the phone and online researching and exploring what is available to help him. Thanks for your response; however I think our situation is a little more advanced than what you thought.

Robin - posted on 01/10/2012

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Discipline without a relationship causes rebellion. He just needs to be loved. He is searching for love. It is so hard out there for teenagers. They have to learn they are more important than there friends. They all smoke out there. They want to fit in with there friends. They want to be cool and be a part of the group. MY son and one of his close friends decided to stick together and make there own group that has good times. They are leaving pot out of it. The both are quitting cigarettes. The have. There one friend they have been friends with forever is getting into drugs and they are seeing what it is doing to him. They are so upset about him. They do not want it to happen to them.
I wish I had answers. I have a daughter who is 14 I worry about her. Her and my son started working out at the gym with me. They are excited about getting healthy!
Maybe you could join a gym so he could get away from the friends that are bad for him. It will work out his anger.
Instead of punching walls he will be going to the gym to work out and run and get his anger out in a good way.. He will come around if you work on it yourself with him. The gym I am going to has a special. With your insurance card, any, you only pay 20 dollars down and 20 a month. My son's friends want to go and work out now. I have free passes. I am hoping my son and his friend set a great example for there other friends that are messing up.
I think your son is so unhappy with himself that he doesn't know what to do about it. He knows he is wrong and he is punching himself. He knows he doesn't want to do drugs but he is so addicted. He has so much pain inside for some reason that he doesn't know how to get rid of it. It could be his hormonal changes in his body too. It is so hard to make all the right decisions as a teenager. I would try to understand and stop punishing him. Give him more love and understanding. It will get you a lot farther. I would encourage him to quit drugs. He needs to set goals in life for his future and not live only today. They say to take it a day at a time. But long term goals that he can achieve will make him happy later in life.
Some people might not like what I am saying. But you should get him into a good church if you can. He can learn about love. LOVE will lift him up and out of the mess he is in. He will get his dignity back and love himself enough to move on with his life instead of giving up. Giving up is the easier way in his situation. Hug him let him know you are there for him. Do not turn your back like some mothers do. NITE night.. tired love robcor50@yahoo.com Robin Write to me...

Angie - posted on 01/06/2012

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I wish you the best of luck ~ I definitely know what you are talking about with "crazy eyes" ~ mine almost zones out, staring right through you, if it was possible you would see steam coming out of his ears...I think the hardest part of all of this is every person is different and what works for one, may not work for the other, but after several, several months of having "professionals" involved, NOBODY knows what's wrong, everybody agrees something is, but everybody disagrees with everybody else's opinion. The ODD diagnosis, the DJO doesn't agree with because ODD is not controllable and the defiance/outbursts were only at home, no problems at school. Now he has them at the facility. Psychologist says he's bi-polar, his individual therapist thinks that's wrong, again, not controllable and he seems to be able to decide when/how, she leans more to the ODD. ADHD, NOBODY believes that one, except maybe the psychiatrist who diagnosed it...I guess it feels like soooo much time has been wasted, this should have been the psychiatrist evaluation that was done back in November when the judge ordered it instead of the compilation of diagnosis we got instead. And maybe, this psychiatrist will find answers...and maybe she won't, but at least she's trying to diagnose instead of throwing med after med to cover up the problem, so I'm trying to stay positive and hopeful, at the same time trying to be realistic...I just hope he hasn't felt like he's got nothing to lose, but I haven't received a call from the treatment facility so no news is good news?? right? lol

Jen - posted on 01/05/2012

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Oh, and we've looked for help as well. At last a counsellor, or a mental health worker. We were first referred to a place that is more teen-oriented/client driven.

Our son, being the client would have to say what he wants to work on. Us as parents/guardians could not say "He's got issues with...and....can you please work on that?

That's just pointless with this boy. He can't even admit he's sick when he's throwing up...got a fever..or sleeping 20 hours a day. He's adamanat he's not sick.

Do you think he'll tell a counsellor "Oh, I've got anger issues....defiance issues..."

*snort* So I made them shut down our file; and I'll be looking for something else; even if I have to pay for it. The places the Child and Youth Mental health office refer's us too...will be covered.....

But if all of them are the same, I'll go find one I can pay for.

Jen - posted on 01/05/2012

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Definitely a big wow!

I really hope this new direction they hope to take with your 14 year old works..and that it lasts long enough to show a positive change!

I'll try a brief history of our situation....some of it is similar, and some of it may be helpful. I hope, or at least let you know, that yet another family is going through similar things!

We brought a 14 year old into our home a year and a half ago; with the intention of adopting him. (The adoption has finally gone through last month.)

He's got an Organic Brain injury...a lot of ODD behaviour, very questionable whether he has FAS, though the mother claims she never drank when pregnant, and ADHD behaviours. Though he's only diagnosed with Organic Brain Injury.

With his ODD behaviors; the Social Worker explained it like...his brain automacially shoots out a definate response, before his brain kicks in. (Not exactly how she worded it.)

But he'll get stuck in that defiance mode; until he's given a chance to go off by himself and quietly think things through. While he's in that defiant mode, he's too angry/upset or panicked, for his brain to start working and processing what just happened.

He will not try to ....get unstuck from that defiant reaction, until he's given a chance, or forced to calm down, rethink things...kick his brain into action...and then come back to try again.

She said she's seen how it gets him in a lot of trouble with adults who get into a power struggle with him. That he's not just some rude little kid; he just tends to react with defiance etc to authoritarian type voices/tones etc....before his brain kicks in.

We've seen this several times.

One incident is where my husband was telling all our kids something/explaining something. I don't know what..but when he was finished he asked each kid "Got that?" And expected them to respond with a "yes".

When he got to the 14 year old, ..the kids response was some sarcastic "What do you think?'

My husband and him got into a head-butting kind of argument where my husband told him all he needed to do was say yes or no...and the 14 year old getting even more defiant and rude.

Luckily it didn't take too long for my husband to drop it, and let the 14 year old take off to calm down and rethink things through. I got the impression the 14 year old didn't even know what the original question was, while he was being rude and argumentative.

Once he came back, he said something like "I'm sorry, lets try this again. Ask me again."

That's one of the more simpler examples. One of the more manageable incidents.

That doesn't mean he's polite in every other situation. He can be a very rude little you know what. Though he can also be the best behaved kid we've ever met.

He doesn't use drugs; and isn't on any medication....but he definilaty has issues from the abuse he recieved as a child.

His fits and blow ups can be spectacular. Its lucky my husband use to take Judo....and its lucky I was adopted myself by a tough Irish woman.

I will not put up with any BS if I deal with these fits rather then my husband. The first time the boy started saying he's allowed to react with violence, because he was abused as a kid, I stopped him and told him to his face that it was complete BS. That I had the same childhood and I don't go around beating people or trying to.

He's charged at me too; and all I did was stand still, raise my eyebrows and put my arm in front of me.

He stopped at my arm, which was surprising...and he had crazy eyes. He may not be on drugs; but there is something going on in his head when he's having his fits.

I think I definiatly take the tough love approach...and so far its working.

He definilaty needs to go somewhere to calm down; rethink things through, then to come back and have a calmer chat about things. But when he's in a blow-up mode..or having his fit, he will NOT take any out you give him.

Tell him to go to his room to calm down, or go for a walk to clear his head etc...? Heck no. He's not doing that.

He'll stand his ground, with his crazy eyes; and weird arguments....and not leave. Even if he's ranting that just wants to be left alone....he will not let himself be left alone...or to go off on his own so he can be left alone...his brain just doesn't clue in that he may want it..need it..but he's the one not allowing it to happen.

He took an out just once...ran past my husband and ran out of the house...came back 10 minute later with all visible signs that he was crying the whole time he was gone. Sat down at the table and calmly apologized to us..saying he's not always a monster.

It was easier to get our point across to him then.

During the fits/blow ups...if I"m the one handling it, I take the tough love approach. Even though it may be an authoritarian voice....and I know that's what triggers some incidents...but I'm doing it in a very sarcastic/tough love way.

There was some incident with us checking up on his homework/school attendance. I can't remember which, this was last year....

But I do remember part way through the blow up I told him in a firm voice "Oh you poor kid, you have parents who care! This is what happens when you have adults who care about you! If we didn't give a d*mn we wouldn't care if you went to class or not, of if you did your homework.

But, you poor tortured kid, to actually have parents now who give a d*mn about your future and wanting you to be a self-suficiant adult."

I said a lot of stuff like that.

It shocked him. He didn't have his automatic ODD reaction to my authoritarian tones etc.

It shocked him, and I'm positive he saw the truth in it too; because he started shaking a little and was starting to get tear's in his eyes.

The fit ended soon after; and he willingly went to his room to calm down.

Just last November I dealt with a huge blow-up...he gets worse around Christmas time; and the month or so leading up to December...that's the incident where he charged at me.

I used the same approach here. I told him it was my job to raise him to be responsible, and take appropriate actions....

I actually started with "Excuse me? Did I try to beat you or hit you? Why are you physically threatening me with violence? I have never hit you and I expect the same level of respect " (A little history; he has an abusive past, the very first incidenet happened because one of our other children was hurt by accident. When we went to find out what happened, the 14 year old was freaking out, backed into a corner, and physically set himself up to defend himself from any attack. We hadn't done anything....but from his past history, he thought he would definilty get the blame, and was bracing himself for an attack.)

Back to the incident...I then mentioned the point about raising him to make appropriate responses to stuff....I brought up that most children who are abused grow up to abuse their own children....and there is no way i'd let him grow up to do that. So I'm teaching him now, to act appropriately.

He had a shocked reaction to that part; it got through his....stuck mode...and he started making loud statements on how he would never hurt his own children when he has his own kids....

Things started calming down after that...

He was very very apologetic after..helpful...and kind to everyone who was involved in that incident.

I'm finding the tough love, done that way....that can shock them...works. It kind of changes the path their on. Its like derailing the incident into another direction...and helps the kid to calm down....or at least change directions...so they can calm down...re think things through.

Especially with this son; who does get 'stuck'.

I'm not sure if that applies to your son; that he's just getting stuck in Defiance mode, and it spirals way out of control...but it applys to our one son.

He's 15 1/2 now....and he still has blow-ups and incidents..but they don't seem to happen as often; and how he reacts to them, seem to be less explosive then when he first moved in with us.

Jen - posted on 01/05/2012

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Edit: Took almost every comment out, until I finish reading this thread; except this part:



I have to continue reading through this thread..I hope thigns are getting better..or that they'll get better in the future!



Just think; after all this gets worked out/resolved, your relationship with your son should be much stronger. He'll soon realize just how much you loved and supported him through this!

Angie - posted on 01/05/2012

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oh by the way, the reason for the transfer is the facility he is in is a substance abuse treatment center, not equipped to deal with the behavior/side effects that will be associated with stopping all the meds...

Angie - posted on 01/05/2012

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newest update ~ oh the things that can happen in a week, since they put him on Behavior Contract & took away all his personal belongings, he seems to get they are serious, his GPA's have been good, visit went good, family therapy went good....so we are heading in the right direction..right?? until today...we met with the new psychiatrist and I like her...I like her ALOT!! she thinks too many doctors and too many meds have been thrown at him in too short of a time frame to even KNOW what's working and what's not...and obviously something is NOT working because the defiance/opposition/anger is still there. She said you don't treat kids this way, you have to treat it like when we introduced foods to them as a baby, one at a time, with time in between to determine reactions. So she wants to transfer him to a mental health hospital, take him off all the meds & start over...sounds good to me & what I wanted done months ago but.....my 14yo is FURIOUS, walked out of the office a few times, banged on some walls, did some yelling, insisting he is not going to cooperate at all. He is court-ordered to complete "60-day substance abuse program" and his thoughts are if he goes to another facility, he won't be completing his time and it will prolong him finishing, therfore prolonging him getting released. Although I tried explaining the meds are not helping and his behavior display today is proof of that & unless that is better, even if he comes home, it will be a matter of time before he is back in a facility because that behavior will not be acceptable at home. The doctor is thinking she can get him transferred pretty quick. I didn't get a phone call, so I am assuming he was transported back with no issues (although the doctor was also concerned after witnessing his behavior today) and I just keep praying he's had some time to think about and realize we are only doing what is in his best interest...

Angie - posted on 01/01/2012

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well...good visit today, was even able to talk about some of the out of control behavior with him not getting upset; he said he didn't realize it was that serious and is going to do everything he can to straighten up so he don't end up back in detention. We came up with a word "Battleship". He picked the word because it would help him remember this time (that's the game we were playing). When he's told to do something, instead of questioning, he will say that word in his head and do what he is asked to do....so family therapy Tuesday and a new psychiatrist evaluation Thursday, it's a new year..maybe a step in the positive direction is in order :)

Angie - posted on 12/30/2011

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no, sorry I didn't know you had issues with another one...oh, the things us parents go through; it sure has to make you appreciate the innocence of your 2yo and want to freeze time for a bit ~ if it makes you feel any better, my 20yo's gf is a stripper and dumb as a box of rocks..lol..and he's taking full advantage of the money she makes, but can't say if I was 20 and found someone to pay my bills & let me do whatever I wanted, I wouldn't do the same..lol..it would definitely be hard hearing your child call someone else mom, especially after all you went through raising him, up to the ultimate sacrifice of allowing someone else to finish raising him because that is what was best for him..best of luck to you as well...definitely take those moments of peace where and when you can find them :)

Annemarie - posted on 12/30/2011

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It took me 3 different times to finish that posting and I totally forgot to add what DSS finally admitted to me. I actually got a real and honest apology from the social workers that I had been dealing with for the 2 years prior to me basically saying "You think you can handle him? HERE you go, he's YOURS. Now you can deal with him!!!"
I have more contact with his foster mom than I do with him most of the time though. I have seen him a total of maybe 5 times outside of court or school in 2 years. It hurts that he is calling the foster mom "Mom" and when he gave me this yr's school pics he put his FM's last name as his. I asked him about this and he actually thought that she had adopted him. I had to explain again to him that even though he doesn't live with me anymore, I am still his mommy and always will be. Mrs. and Mr. G are his guardians, but I still have FINAL say when it comes to major decisions. I'm not sure if him getting hit by a car @ the age of 2 has anything to do with his problems.
I will keep you and your family in my prayers. I hope you can get some kind of resolution to your problems. I am doing as best I can in my situation (not sure if you noticed I also have an 18 y/o I'm dealing with as well- moving in with is internet g/f.) I am looking forward to having a quiet house with just the 2 y/o :p

Angie - posted on 12/30/2011

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wow Annemarie ~ what a roller coaster you have been on...I know exactly how frustrating, exhausting, and challenging it can be to figure what's going on with them ~ thank GOD nobody so far, except insurance, has questioned what I've done or I think I would go off on them; in fact quite the opposite, they (therapists & counselors) don't know how I am getting through this sane. The crazy thing about my son is he has had NO problems at school, we have not had any life-changing experiences, at least that coincided with the onset of this behavior. It has been a gradual authority test the last few years that became drastically worse this summer. Prior to others being involved, the authority testing/defiance was only directed towards me. NOW, look out!! I received a call today from his counselor that somehow he managed to lock all the staff and all the other residents in the rec room and had full run of the facility until they were able to free themselves, supposedly it wasn't done on purpose, it happened when he slammed the door & the door automatically locked, he is wreaking total havoc in there, totally defiant, disrespectful and uncooperative; he has also now told the doctor how and what his meds need changed to, so they are doing blood work tomorrow to see if that shows anything and he is seeing yet another psychiatrist next Thursday to try to figure this out. Thanks for your prayers and I know your road is by far not finished with yours and wish you the best of luck and prayers to get through yours as well.

Annemarie - posted on 12/30/2011

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I have a 17 y/o son that has ADHD, Bi-piolar, Aspergers, ODD and a few others :( As you can see from my profile icon pic I also have a 2 y/o daughter. I gave him to Social Services after he broke my fiance's hand 3 weeks before I had my daughter. Here is some background information on MY situation.
Starting around 3rd grade- 2004 (10 yrs old) he was having difficulty in school and that is when all of this began. He would start acting out at home and refusing to do his homework. He was already on multiple meds for the ADHD and it was helping him in school but NOT at home. I had him in counseling both in-home and outpatient, but nothing was helping. I knew something was wrong, asked the in-home counselor to go with me for a parent/teacher conference. I asked for him to be held back so he could get a better understanding of the things he was learning. The Principal of his school said that he could NOT be held back because it would "damage" him emotionally. I began accumulating cards from the police officers that came out to the house when I called for help. Because he was under their "intake" age, all they could do was respond and build a "file" of complaints. As time went on he became increasingly more violent and verbally abusive. When he entered 6th grade his teacher called me and asked "How did he get here?" He couldn't read or understand ANY of his classes. That started the process that identified him as having Aspergers. He then was put into Special Ed classes and things got a little better at home with the extra help he was getting with school. He had not progressed to the physical stage yet so I believed he was still manageable.
Fast forward to Summer 2007, I lost my husband to an Aortic Aneurysm (MAJOR instant internal bleeding and sudden death) and things progressed to the violence stage. He began breaking things and hitting myself and my other son. He was finally old enough to go to Juvenile Detention, so he was taken away. He plead guilty to 2 counts of Assault and Battery, was placed on probation, and ordered for Preventive Foster Care.
I then had Social Services walk into my life, and had 2 years of them telling me that I was the problem. I was not doing enough to help him according to them. I did everything that they asked of me, he had more intensive in-home therapies, a mentor, and still was getting progressively worse. I was alone in the house with a child that was bigger than I was and no way to physically restrain him when needed. I met my finace and things got a bit better for a little while, but as soon as he changed schools and entered High School, he became a complete monster. I guess with his baby sister coming soon, that was the final push he needed to explode into a severe episode. The day he broke my finace's hand he had been suspended for 5 days because he had written something inappropriate on his Alpha Smart, and then showed it to another classmate. He was violent, verbally abusive, and I decided I had suffered enough!! After he was arrested and sent to juvenile, I decided that I didn't want him back home. So at his arraignment he was placed in foster care. He went through TWO placements before an appropriate place was found.
He will have been in the same foster home for 2 years in 2 weeks. I do have to say that he is DEFINATELY in a better place and his foster parents are GREAT and a Godsend!! He is polite, under control of his emotions, and actually has been mainstreamed back into mostly "normal" classes. When he left my house he was in all self contained classes and failing miserably, and now he is only in English as a self contained class. He will graduate next year with his HS diploma and then enter into an independent living program. In the program he will share an apartment with one other boy, be responsible for his own food, and all the other things involved with living on his own. It is a "therapeutic" situation where there is staff there 24/7 and the staff is monitoring his progress and medications. He will be able to live there until he is 21. So that basically gives us 4 years to figure out his next step.
I actually spent ALL day with him yesterday and wanted more time with him. 2 years ago I couldn't be with him for even 30 minutes without wanting to scream.

I know this was long and drawn out, but I hope this gives you hope that your son could become a better person with the right guidance and environment. I just pray you don't have to go through what I had to to get him there!!

Angie - posted on 12/30/2011

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wow ~ I don't know if that will be an option or when it would ever be an option, but definitely worth checking out. I received a phone call from the treatment facility this morning and it is NOT good...my son is absolutely terrorizing the facility and will probably be unsucessfully discharged Tuesday or Wednesday if things don't improve rapidly. He actually managed to lock the staff and all the other residents in the rec room and had free reign of the facility until they were able to free themselves...goodness!! since then, he's being openly defiant, disrespectful and uncooperative, he's making threats to run & has even defiantly gone to the front door, refusing to go back to the facility area, but not taking the final step to walk out; his individual therapist believes he is more ODD than bipolar...so the next few days will be interesting...he did make a short phone call to me last night, although he said he would not be calling me & of course made no mention of his behavior...still deciding if I will go visit Sunday..

Karen - posted on 12/29/2011

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I wanted to add ... you can sign him in involuntary, which is why I also chose this program. All programs that were accepted by insurance were voluntary (meaning he had to agree to it). I hired an intervention team, signed him over, and they basically physically took him to program, and he had NO choice.

Karen - posted on 12/29/2011

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The program is called ALE (Adirondack Leader Expedition). It is run by the Aspen programs (google Aspen wilderness). My son is incredibly smart, an avid reader. Talked in conversations at 18 months, walked at 11 months. He was always tough though - diagnosed with ADD at age 6. At around 12 things really started going downhill. He also used his diagnoses as an excuse. The wilderness program was my last ditch effort to save him from what I expected was jail, or death (as he started using crack). He does still have issues (major anxiety and depression), but since he has been back from Wilderness in July, we have had a total of 2 major meltdowns. This is from someone dealing with at least 5 a week. That was terrified that my child was going to kill me or hurt one of his brothers. Wilderness program literally saved our family. It cost mega bucks, but it was worth it.

Angie - posted on 12/29/2011

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also Karen when did your son start his behavior? So many parents I've talked to had signs of different behavior most of their lives, diagnosed with ADHD at 6-7-8 yo; I have a hard time believing my son who is a gifted student, testing on 10th grade math level in 5th grade, when he finds a good book, will read for hours and hours because he can't put it down, have had absolutely no trouble at all staying focused at school, was on B honor roll before all this started...now all of a sudden has ADHD?? So much of it seems like teenage rebellion maxified and he seems to be manipulating this system that likes to throw pills at him & give him a label to excuse his behavior...but maybe this is just my inexperience dealing with mental issues, I don't know..

Angie - posted on 12/29/2011

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Karen ~ what was the name of the program and where is it located? I've checked into Boys Town, but the teenager has to write a letter requesting help and go willingly, and he is soooo not going to do that. The problem is the short amount of time he has been home, I am surviving minute by minute, we can't make it to follow up pyschiatrist visits, we can't make it to follow up family therapy visits ~ he ends up in a facility before we've been able to establish any type of schedule or game plan...

Karen - posted on 12/29/2011

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Angie - after doing the program I mentioned, he is med free! After being on meeds for so many years, he is happy not taking anything. Some meds make things so much worse.

Angie - posted on 12/29/2011

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wow ~ thanks all of you. It's amazing how many other parents are struggling and have been struggling for many more years than I have. Donna, I don't have ANY experience with mental health issues, except what I'm learning through this, and I truly believe that the multiple facilities/multiple doctors/multiple diagnosis/multiple med changes have certainly not helped with his situation. I have learned enough that it does take the right combination of meds and it does take time to see the effects of meds, which is why it was TERRIFYING to me when he got discharged when I knew they had just changed up his meds 3 days prior, on the way home when he jumped out of the car on the highway (I barely got pulled over in time), I was so scared because I had no idea what was going through his head. He actually seems worse on the meds, very unreasonable, very defiant, very manipulative and very angry...and I haven't been impressed with any of the doctors; I think sometimes they don't find the root of the problem, they just keep throwing out meds. I'm so glad things worked out for you Karen, it's got to be awesome at least to have some progress. Best of luck to you Jane, can't imagine going through it for 10 years when I'm not even a year into of the "bad" stuff. I definitely feel your pain as a parent of not knowing what kind of future they will have; it even worries me when you say he does okay, what is becoming our new "normal"? My son is NOT liking juvenile or juvenile's treatment center, but would go back to the other acute care places in a minute...sleep all day, throw trash cans if you want, cuss, order what you want to eat, you're expected to misbehave so you have a free license too...and yes, love him with all my heart and even when he's telling me F-You, I'm telling him I love him...day by day, minute by minute :)

Jane - posted on 12/29/2011

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I can't give you any advice because you seem to be doing everything you can, but I can commiserate. My son, now 17, is diagnosed as ADHD, ODD, Early Onset Bipolar and mild Asperger's. His problems started when he was three, culminating in a suicide attempt and diagnosis at age 7. I can't tell you how many things he has destroyed or stolen or how many times he threatened me, his father and his sister. However, as long as he takes his meds (something he really doesn't want to do) he does okay. I still have no idea if he can make it on his own. He has 1 1/2 years of high school left, and I have enrolled him in a welding program so he will have a job skill. However, I have no idea if he is going to be able to get a job, much less keep it, or whether he will pay his bills. The scary thing is that he seems to enjoy being in residential treatment, so I fear he may end up in jail.

Just remember that while you may not like your son or his behavior, you do still love him.

Donna - posted on 12/29/2011

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Dear Angie, yes, it is very hard to trust someome else with your child's welfare, but do you at least get to speak to his psychiatrist? do you have a say at all? only because it sounds like your son is on very potent medication, and they do not seem to be having the desired effect. everyone reacts differently to psychotropic meds. one person could take a particular medication that is supposed to be an anti-anxiety med, and it makes them psychotic or depressed instead, another person can take the same medication, and they are significantly improved. I don't want to add to your distress Angie, since it is mostly out of your hands. These were just some ideas...My son has seen 4 different psychiatrists and 2 different psychologists as well. I was not impressed with any of them. The really good ones are very hard to find.