discipline for a gifted boy?

Ena - posted on 07/31/2009

oh my god,this is so hard, let me tell you!!! My boy is now going to be 5 and I still have trouble finding a middle ground on discipining. Nothing phases him because he can see the logic in it and like your boy, will just go play with something else.Or he wil argue a very reasonable argument in which I have NO response!!!! :) Ive noticed , as you probably have too, that gifted childen are extremely sensitive and if I raise my voice even a fraction or walk away from him he takes it personaly and gets extremey distressed.I learnt NOT to d thatafter the first couple of times! I just wanted to say whatever you do, do not use normal punishments like time out because it does really distress them! and it really does pass....

Jen - posted on 07/29/2009

my house is very relaxed...the only rules i enforce are the 'social' rules...I have 3 children and they play together all the time so if someone is not playing well, they don't get to play. if someone gets hurt, the person who did the hurting has to 'fix it'. if one of them needs help, they help each other. any lack of 'caring and sharing' is met with a trip to their room. I dont expect them to clean every day because i dont clean every day, i don't expect them to do chores but i do expect them to respect me and others and have explained to all of them that if i ask them to do something i have a very good reason for it and it usually involves safety. My 3 are extremely creative and some of the role play games they get into get carried away and need to be curved to a less dangerous level.

as for what i would do in your examples is not give him gum and tell him its because it annoys you when he smacks it. make sure the time out is an incredibly boring place and leave him longer and take ALL the toys away as punishment, not just one. get yourself some plastic bins with lids to keep the toys in and if he doesn't listen put all the toys in the garage for a day or 2. i tell my kids exactly why i am asking them to stop doing something...if it annoys you, tell him so, if it is dangerous, tell him so, if it drives you crazy, makes you want to rip your hair out, makes you want to throw him out a window....LOL.

Alicia - posted on 07/27/2009

I would like to thank everyone for their advice. some of these we have tried with no success. Such as giving choices- we tried on several occassions which just lead to him refusing either choice and ending up doing it the hard way anyway. And trying to let him no why it is wrong and use logic but that just causes him to get smarter with us. We did go see someone the other day that told me the worse thing I could do for him was to give him an opportunity to reason back with us. said best thing for us to do was to put it simple such as you threw that toy so that means time out. not to say anything else. Reason being he knows what he did and he knows the consequence already not like a typical child. and by explaining we keep him engaged and give him a way to control the situation.we have been trying it for a few days now and it actually seems to be making a difference with him.he knows he cant talk his way out of trouble anymore or feel like he can anyway. the therapist says by not engaging with him it takes away his feeling of control. He also suggested longer term consequences. Such as he got in trouble at daycare the other day so we said no cartoons for that afternoon. reminded him the next day if he didn't listen to his teacher he would have no cartoons that afternoon. he did wonderful by his teachers words. I am so amazed for his age he could remember that consequence all day long enough to control his behavior all day as was his regular therapist. I'm hoping these strategies will work for the long haul. maybe these can help some of you that are still struggling as well. We did find out from the specialist that he is probablly ADHD as well as gifted which is very common and can cause these behaviors due to the hyper activity combined with getting bored easily. it's like a double whammy. Thanks again for everyones input. and I hope this thread has helped some others as well.

Sjorcha - posted on 07/26/2009

My methods are similar to Lauryn & Nicole's. I was con-funded by my then 2 yr gifted son. I was losing every step I took. I did everything the child educators & specialists suggested I do, nothing was working. The craft activities books that where suggested to me was the last straw. He did them all in 2 minutes then said "Now what are you going to do?" He knew exactly what the object was, to keep him quiet & palatable.
It was a talk with a very elderly lady waiting for a train after that, that helped me the most. She put a great deal into perspective when it came to raising all children.

RULE 1 - Discipline actually means learning of life's skills ( such as a child will trace letters over & over till they don't need the outline anymore, and write the letter by themselves). Punishment - ostracizing due to some form because of wrong doing. Therefore discipline should be handed out long before punishment.

Rule 2 - Children are like petrol tanks, except they have 2 ( skills & physical). Each day these 2 tanks need to be filled, if they don't get filled properly, or with the wrong stuff, chaos starts. Children are driven looking for fill or they just don't operate properly.

Rule 3 - Decisions. Children especially gifted children need to learn from a very early age how to make decisions. This helps them to learn how to think,why to think, not just what to think. Don't do everything for them, this is tough love, discipline for the parents too.

Rule 4 - Replace routine with structure. A child that has a very set routine, becomes very quickly unsettled when that routine is disturbed and incapable to cope. Structure is ethics & lifestyle rolled into one, and each family has it's own unique structure. Children brought up with structure are far more flexible & adaptable, they roll into adulthood with ease.

Rule 5 - Praise & Encouragement. Always praise a child for their efforts & good will. Encourage them daily. Children need to be engaged with life, they need to feel valued & worthwhile.

Rule 6 - Children are not possessions. As parents we are charged with the duty to teach, mentor and guide our children into adulthood. Parents never own their children.

Rule 7 - Justice & Fairness. Children have an inbuilt sense of justice & fairness, they might not quite understand it, but they know it. Never under estimate this. Deal children with something unjust or unfair and they will seek retribution until justice has been served.

Rule 8 - Diffuse a situation with diversion. If something gets out of hand, change the scene. Then after it's cooled down, talk about what went wrong, what could be done next time that would stop it from happening again.


So from that day onwards I did just that, with remarkable benefits. My life got a great deal better.

We teach our children that there are consequences to all actions. If your hubby wanted to remove the gum from your son's mouth, then the consequences where he would get bitten, too right!!. Wouldn't it be better to teach your son to chew his gum in a manner that's not irritable to someone else?. I had this instance once. I asked him to keep his mouth closed while chewing due to the horrible sound. He asked why the sound was horrible, why it irritated me. I used a recent situation that really irritated him, so he understood, if he couldn't, then maybe he wasn't responsible or considerate enough just yet to have gum ( which included the disposal of the gum). Next time he asked, I re explained the responsibility & consideration policy, if he did it well, I would give him a "gum license". He remembered the irritable situation that I used, and he chewed the gum & disposed of it properly. I thanked him for a job well done and gave him his "gum license" ( I drew up a credit card size slip of paper). He was proud.

From the earliest age I encouraged all of the kids to decide what's for dinner. I keep a food pyramid chart in the kitchen. Of course they will want they favs each time, but I explain why variety is very important, throughout the day we need to eat foods from these groups to be healthy & strong. To enrich this discipline, I take them grocery shopping as well. I get them to handle the fruit and veges to see if they are ripe & of good use ( explain again how to see if they are good) They will also choose the meat and other items with this same discipline in mind. It does take longer, but each shop was always a teaching exercise towards self sustainability. I really shake my head at the supernanny attitude, where they are forced to sit in the trolley as if they are not there, invisible. How can kids learn if they are not engaging in learning itself. Now my son is 22, a fabulous cook, in the last few months has started a "underground dinner party" for himself ( new fad here that guests register for a secret dinner party, location is given at the last minute with people giving preferences for a specific cook) when he hosted his first, there were 10 paying guests, after that there was 60 (maximum) with 200 people left on the waiting list.

I take public transport a lot with the kids, for many reasons. I would deliberately be "lost", and ask the kids, what should we do to find our way ( there was never any panic on my part, but more resolve into dealing with it). It was to help get them to think about problem solving. How to identify suitable strangers, read maps, orientation etc. Gifted kids really enjoy this type of situation, gets their mental juices flowing, also the satisfaction of helping mum out!!. Teaches them smart independence

Keep life light hearted.I always suggested to the kids to help me with the chores. Many hands make light work. The quicker we do things together, the quicker & longer we have free time to do things together. I never used TV as a babysitter, whilst i was racing around getting things done, but more getting them to help my get the important stuff out of the way.(TV & things like that are rewards, or down time) Once done, I would be very appreciative of their efforts to them. "you helped me so much today, were would I be without you!". I makes them feel valued, needed, capable & responsible. It boosts their confidence. ( Ok if they didn't do the vacuming to your exact standards then, but next time offer extra advice)

If you are approachable, then they will approach you with ease.

Lisa - posted on 07/25/2009

Wow, I am amazed that all you moms are great thinkers - hence parenting solutions for all. My son is 2 1/2 and my daughter is 5. Both my kids are gifted and hard to control. I thought my daughter was having behaviour issues when she was 3 until I found out she was gifted. I believe time-out doesn't always work. Sometimes reasoning with them are not the best solution either, they are just too young. Recently my husband and I are trying to take away their favourite for the night, it sorts of works. But I don't want to use negative reinforcement at all times. So I will implement a reward system using a cookie jar or just a reward jar that was an empty peanut butter jar. I would put 5 plastic food (from their play kitchen) in the jar to begin with. When s/he doesn't behave, I will remove I item until no more food in the jar. If good behaviour, add new food in the jar. By the end of the week/month, if all 5 items are still in the jar, they will get a reward (stickers, dollar store favourites or candies/chocolate, or have their friend come over for a playdate...) I think it will encourage the youngsters that behaving good will result wanted toys from the store.

Jeralee - posted on 07/23/2009

1. choices: I give him two choices. such as - do you want to climb into the car yourself or can I put you in? He is very independent and so chooses to do what I want him to do (most of the time)

2. Counting: "If I count to 5 you are in trouble". As yet he has not asked what will happen when I get to 5. I have never gotten past 5 yet :)

3. "Do you want to do it the easy way or the hard way?" Easy way - he does it happily and quickly. hard way - I just get on with getting the job done and he cries and we are all miserable for a while.

4. I ask him to please go to his room until he has calmed down and can talk to me nicely. This is a new one I started trying recently and is working well (so far!)

5. We have only a few rules that apply (on the most important topics) and we never deviate from these. There are consequences attached to each rule for both good and bad behaviour and he understands these very well. On these rules we are unbending and the consequences will follow.

I do these same things that were posted earlier. Normally I will talk with him about why it is wrong and make sure that he understands, then I lay out the what will happen next time things. My ds is just about to turn three and the rationalizing is getting to me. I have also started making the blanket statements. Another thing that I do is make sure that I don't blindly threaten. Or that if I do that i actually follow through. This helps to build trust and he knows that if I say he will lose a privilege or that I will put him in a cuddle out (least favorite punishment for an independent kid) he trusts that it will happen and doesn't try to push it to often.

The only other thing I can think of is getting him out for a morning walk or jog everyday. It calms my ds and gets his mind ready for the day, he is more focused and easier to deal with. It also gives him time to ramble and the talking time helps me figure out what is going through that mind of his.

Beth - posted on 07/23/2009

I am so glad to be reading these and know I am not alone. I am still struggling with that and other issues for a couple years now. I have always tried giving choices, reasoning, and consistency. It was easy to talk maturely and reason with my twins that are now 12. With my 7 year old, it is not that easy. She can get very explosive with her words, attitude and actions. One thing I know for sure is that we need separation until she can calm down (when she is really wound up...I need a time out for me also because I get really tense). Hang in there, be consistent, and know you are not alone. I am to the point thought that I needed to seek outside help, because I tried everything I could think of. I always pray that she is trying all these things because it is a safe environment and that she will not do this as a teen. She does not have the same behavior at school or activities. Good luck and I wish you the best!

Andrea - posted on 07/22/2009

Oh yeah, My son always heard us say "this is because you've been so good", or b/c you've worked so hard. In addition, we always said to him that good kids reap the rewards of their good behavior. Straight As got him tickets to a soccer match that he was dying to go to. We planned on buying the tickets but we ended up upgrading the seats and let him know why.

Andrea - posted on 07/22/2009

My gifted son was very difficult to deal with as a youngster. However, as a teen he is a joy...so hang in there. One thing we tried and it did work, was to give him a choice in the matter. If he couldnt follow directions he went to his room. If he refused (as he often did) we started taking privileges away one at a time for that day. He once went without TV and the Computer for 5 days before finally going to his room. Just make sure you are very specific as to the consequences, dont take any back talk and be consistent. If you thinks you are not going to keep your bargain of no privileges there will be no reason to follow the directions later. On the rare occasion that we ground him now, he just gives up the privilege and moves on. And sometimes he even apologizes for blowing it :)

Lisa - posted on 07/22/2009

Hi Alicia. I have always struggled with discipline issues in my household because my parents and my husband are firm believers in a traditional method of discipline ie do what I say because I am the parent! I have learned the hard way that this just does not work with gifted children.

I use two main tactics with my children, aged 10, 9 and 6. The first, and in my experience the most effective, is to actually discuss behavioural issues with them. It is a common trait in gifted children that they have a very well developed sense of fairness and what is morally right. I use that trait in my children to discuss how their negative behaviours reflect on them as people, and also the impact they have on others around them. Surprisingly, it works. In exploring these issues my children seem to realise not only what needs changing but also why, and they do so quite calmly and genuinely. They seem to learn not to repeat the behaviour because it is wrong rather than just because it is expected of them.

The other tactic I resort to is reining them in when their behaviour gets out of line. They know that they are raised in a fairly adult manner and given a lot of input into their own lives and daily routines and environment, but they also know that they have to earn that input and adult consideration. So if the behaviour deteriorates, I tell them that they are acting like children who cannot control themselves and as such I will have to treat them accordingly. I supervise them more closely and hold them more accountable for each and every activity and action until they realise that life is a lot more fun when they behave properly and get their "grown up" privileges back.

I know this sort of approach won't be entirely possible with a child the age of your son but the principles can still work. For example, in my household with the gum issue I would explain that gum is something which is a privilege and there are certain things I expect if I allow gum. If the child chooses to act inappropriately with it then I will have to think they are not trustworthy enough or mature enough to have it, so they will go without. Similarly with the biting issue, I would explain that biting is something which animals do, not civilised children who have been raised with manners, and that if my child intends to threaten me with animal behaviour then they will have to remove themself from my sight and remain in their bedroom until they can behave in a way which is suitable enough for them to be allowed to rejoin the family. I see it as giving choices and empowering the child to make the right choices for the right reason.

I agree with you that timeouts and toy removal etc don't seem to work with these smart little ones!

Katja - posted on 07/21/2009

I have taken away all the toys in his room when he got a big outburst that i really couldnt tollerate. Told him he cant have toys if he breaks them (he's 5). Every day he was being a good boy he could get a toy back from the other room.

Since then he is able to control himself, sometimes i see him lose his temper but then i say 'remember ur toys !!' and then he stops.



It was very simple and i felt sad for him at that moment but it seemed to have worked.

Nicole - posted on 07/21/2009

For my gifted son it's important for the time out to involve his thoughts. He has to tell me what choice he made and why it was a wrong choice. then he has to tell me what he should have done differently. my son is now 8. we also use exercise during time outs: push ups(he's been doing this since he was at least 4), running in place, basically anything that will help burn some of that energy that otherwise gets him into trouble ;)
At any age, remember, he may be smart, but he's still innocent and a child. Try to keep the discipline light hearted and perhaps give yourselves a time to calm down before addressing the problem. Structure is so important and showing a level of tough love is our responsibility as a parent. We're not blessed with children as friends, but entrusted to provide mentorship and guidance.

Kylie - posted on 07/20/2009

Alicia, I have 2 very strong willed boys - my eldest now 6 and my youngest almost 4. The gum example is something I could imagine my 6 year old responding with, it is completely ineffective to threaten him as if he really does not want to do something the consequence is irrelevant at that time. I have since learnt to ensure that he knows though that every action has a consequence and therefore in that situation I would advise him that it is bad manners to smack gum and that if he persisted he would not be given gum in the future and that that would be his choice - I would not be choosing that for him and then if he did smack gum, the next time he asked for some I would remind him what happened last time and explain that therefore no he would not be getting any and then a few days later if he asks again give him the opportunity to show you that he had learnt his lesson and give him a piece. This is a long term strategy but I can say that it does work, and that even my 3 year old responds now as I am consistent (unlike Dad!). The booked recommended above is by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka, www.parentchildhelp.com and it is a great book. Other really good reads are Tricky Kids by Andrew Fuller and there was another one I loved that I am having a mental block on, if I think of it I will post it.

I also do the 2 options as suggested by Lauryan. I find though while it is good to listen and be flexible, with my two I have to be firm and most importantly consistent and follow through on my word. My 6 year old must respect the person disciplining him and for him to do this, he needs to know that you mean what you say, you say it to him respectfully, you listen to and acknowledge his arguments (and they are usually numerous and logical), you will negotiate occasionally if appropriate and mostly that you will be fair. But seriously I sound like Dr Phil most the time - sprouting all actions have consequences - I know that is going to be one of the things my children will throw at me once they are adults.

And by the way, what a wonderful thing you are doing. The world needs more people like you, not only willing to open their hearts and their homes to these children but to ensure they have the absolute best start academically and emotionally. Best of luck!

Lauryan - posted on 07/20/2009

I have the same issue with my 2.5 year old son. None of the traditional things work for us. The best things right now are:



1. choices: I give him two choices. such as - do you want to climb into the car yourself or can I put you in? He is very independent and so chooses to do what I want him to do (most of the time)



2. Counting: "If I count to 3 you are in trouble". As yet he has not asked what will happen when I get to 3. I have never gotten past 2 yet :)



3. "Do you want to do it the easy way or the hard way?" Easy way - he does it happily and quickly. hard way - I just get on with getting the job done and he cries and we are all miserable for a while.



4. I ask him to please go to his room until he has calmed down and can talk to me nicely. This is a new one I started trying recently and is working well (so far!)



5. We have only a few rules that apply (on the most important topics) and we never deviate from these. There are consequences attached to each rule for both good and bad behaviour and he understands these very well. On these rules we are unbending and the consequences will follow.



I know you are facing an older child, but perhaps some of this can be modified to fit your situation? I use these depending on the situation at hand and his and my mood at the time.



It's tough as we don't want bratty kids, and I think our concerns are added as we get easily frustrated when they can think and talk so well and yet they still act like pre schoolers (etc). Sometimes it's good to be reminded of how little they still are, and to remember that although intellectually and academically they may be so far ahead, emotionally they may still be their chronological age. This is a huge gap and must be even harder for them to come to grips with and to learn to control those emotions is hard - regardless of age or ability.



Best of luck and please keep us posted with what works.

Candice - posted on 07/19/2009

Hello Alicia,

You are definitely not alone. My son is always three steps ahead of me; everyday it is something new that he has rationalized. I think the only words of advice is to stay consistent. I think Denise has the right idea; we too use the same reasoning with our son. It seems as though talking with him on an "adult like" level makes the most impact. My son is almost 7 and has been known to use words I would have never imagined using during conversation with a 7 yr. old.

You need to find what he is "really" into; and make that one thing the worst of worst punishments (the last resort) .. like taking it away or not letting him do that thing. I have also found that keeping my son stimulated has decreased much of the behavioral issues. School has made a huge impact and change in him. Since yours is so young, maybe you would benefit going to Walmart of Target and buying a kindergarten or pre-school activity book; allow him to work through it. Once in school the Gifted and Talented program really does make a big difference.

I wish you the best of luck; unfortunately gifted children seem to be the hardest to discipline. I struggle with this on a daily basis!

Good luck in whatever avenue you choose to follow.

Denise - posted on 07/18/2009

Hi Alicia, I don't know if anything I can add will help, I have a 4 yr old who is a challenge to discipline because he is very different. Traditional methods just don't work. I have just felt my way through it and sometimes it takes a while to figure out what is going to work...which can be frustrating.

I think the most important thing to consider is picking your battle. You will have lots of power struggles with a gifted child so if you can live with some issues- do, and stand firm on the ones you can't. There are several books on raising gifted children- and many address education, but some will talk a bit about that. Or the book Raising your spirited child -- I forget the author- but it addresses how to handle challenging children (she also has a book on power struggles). What has worked for my son- may not for you- and each year it changes. I will say, there aren't many privileges for me to take away as well, cause he finds entertainment in everything. So, in the gum type situation - if I felt it was an issue I had to address- I would give him the warning about the behavior that needed to stop, and if he continued I would make a statement like this (and typically parents are advised NOT to give blanket statements- but I think said in this way it isn't- plus it works for me): If he responds that he will bite you (or if you think he will) you can say- if you bite me you are showing me that you cannot handle the responsibilities/ or rules for eating gum and will no longer have any until you can show me you can handle it. That tends to work because it is a long term consequence of not following the rule. If general behavior improves over whatever length of time you determine is acceptable,and he is asking for gum- I would talk with him about the rules before letting him have a piece- and make sure he understands what is expected and if he cannot follow those rules the consequence will be xxxx (usually I say the same consequence of losing the privilege of eating gum). If you follow this, he of course has to know you mean business and that you are firm on the issues you choose to correct so that he believes the consequence. And make sure the length of time it is withheld is effective. It is also good to make sure the consequence relates to the infraction - taking a toy away for not eating dinner or something unrelated is less likely to work with a gifted child (unless it was 'cause he was playing with a toy and not eating). Sometimes that's not possible, but when it is - try to make the two correlate.

It really does just depend on your child, but I've had success with this. HTH.
Denise

Jennifer - posted on 07/18/2009

this sounds very familier infact im still going through the same underline prob with my 7 year old, unfortunetly i dont have any solutions as i have tryed them all & i can tell you none work for gifted children they eather tend to damage them or have no effect, i have seen doc/healthvisiters/sychyatrist/sycologists & the list goes on they all have good ideas but not one has actualy worked the way we have coped over the years is deal with each situation as it suits best at the time, the naughtyness calms down as they get older though if that helps, otherwise i dont know what advise i can give as i dont know what areas it effects your little one mine has emotional behaveral prob so he feels more advanced then he can actualy process for his age so he lashes out & becomes very violent when he gets emotional, but if you have any paticualer situations you want advice on please ask i may beable to help if not hopefully it helps knowing your not the only one