Question about public schools and the gifted.

Chris - posted on 04/20/2009

Keep working with the school. Don't give up. My son and daughter are both in the gifted program. My son is constantly picked on and bulllied. But, Keep talking to the school, superintendent (however it is spelled) whoever you can to get this changed. go to school board meetings. Let your vioce be heard. The squeaky wheel gets the oil.

Pattie - posted on 04/18/2009

In the public schools you have more rights than in private. You can get an "advocate" for your child whether the child test gifted or has learning disabilities. When you mention getting an advocate to the school officials this typically gets the ball rolling immediately. The last thing they want is someone looking over their shoulder. I am in Tennessee. Not sure where you are but you need to find out how to get an advocate to represent your daughter in the school. You may never want to actually get one - but you can let the school know you are aware and if your daughter doesn't get the education she has the rights to then you will be left with no other choice. Parents of gifted children have to be strong and informed for them.

Kelly - posted on 04/16/2009

Wow!! I never realized how fortunate we are to have an excellent gifted program in our school district. We live in Livonia, MI and our daughter started Kindergarten at the age of 4. Immediately I saw the difference between her knowledge and that of her classmates. Her teacher would have her read to groups of 2nd graders! She narrated her class play and so on, I saw her eagerness to go to school start to dimiinsh... It was her teacher that suggested I have her tested for a program for gifted kids called ACAT (Alternative Classrooms for the Academically Talented). She tested off the charts and was immediately accepted into this program. Her teacher said that if she continued on in the regular public school system she would be labeled disruptive/troublemaker, etc.. since she was not being challenged enough and would finish her work quickly and then try to help her friends. Her teacher felt that keeping her in the reg public school system would also squelch her natural desire to learn. The ACAT program is a magnet program and is being studied by other districts around us. The best part is that it's FREE!!! This is a very unique school in that it not only houses the gifted kids but half of the school houses a program for children that are moderately challenged. It's a win win situation because the impaired kids are mentored by the gifted kids and the gifted kids see the specialness of the impaired kids. It's a beautiful thing to see the interaction among them. My daughter is learning chemistry, geometry and many other higher grade level subjects. Another wonderful thing about the program is that the teachers have the students for 2 years. They don't so much have grade levels but they have Families. Family 1 is 1st & 2nd grade age, Family 2 is 3rd & 4th grade age and Family 3 is 5th & 6th grade age. We were a little skeptical at first but now see it's the very best decision we made for our daughter. She loves the school and is truly learning with PEERS which was not the case in public schools. She's not the smartest one in class now and has school friends that she can actually relate to on the same level.

Jeri - posted on 04/11/2009

That's a great question and one that is difficult. Our kids deal with issues that are unique and they need someone who is trained to help. I wonder if you could ask the gifted program to help you offer hints or strategies to your regular ed classroom teacher to keep your daughter on the right track until she can transition to the appropriate class. Our resources are spread so thin, this may even be difficult.

Kathy - posted on 04/11/2009

Hi Amanda.  I have two gifted kids, who are fortunate enough to be in schools that are open to listening to parents.  I desperately wanted my son in the program for the exact same reason you want your daughter to be in it.  My son only got in because his 4th grade teacher fought for him.  It is very frustrating to know that your child's needs are not being met, and my son suffered (at different schools because we are military and have moved a lot) for five years.

Fighting the school and the district can be a huge battle and a drain on you and your family.  My fight was only successful because the culture at our school promotes teacher awareness of gifted traits, and a teacher was willing to help us.  We were very very lucky.  Something you can do instead is look for a "support" group outside of the school to help meet your needs as a parent of a gifted child.  My best friends are parents of gifted children and talking with them about perfectionism and social struggles helps me to support my kids.  It also gets my kids around other kids who think on the same wavelength they do.  Don't lose hope, because you have more power to help your daughter through this than any other adult in her life.  She IS gifted and the fact that you recognize it and help her grow through this will ensure that she comes out ahead in the end.

Angela - posted on 04/10/2009

I see nothing wrong with a child at any age saying that a task is easy. I would never consider that rude, and I'm a teacher (of much older kids). Even though the teacher did consider did consider it rude, I think she went way overboard taking the Easter basket away, and I agree with you completely when you mention that children that young shouldn't be expected to consider the effort put into planning. That is just ridiculous. Maybe the teacher was just having a bad day. Even so, an apology should be forthcoming. If it was my child, I think I would be setting up a parent-teacher conference. Maybe I would be over-reacting, but things like that make me so angry. Maybe it's because I am a teacher and I know what I expect in a classroom setting, from the teacher and from the students. I'm sorry you and your daughter had to go through that.

Ani - posted on 04/10/2009

Did I just see she is 6???  Yes.  You overreacted.

Ani - posted on 04/10/2009

Quoting Krystle:

I'v recently had an issue with her teacher just before spring break when they did some different activity's and Mya told the teacher it was to easy and the teacher sent home a note saying she was rude and disrespectful because of what she said and that she didn't appreciate the effort the teachers put into putting everything together. I was upset by this because i want my child to speak her mind and if it was easy how was that rude or disrespectful? I also don't thinka child should be concerned with how much effort adults put into planning these events at school they're to young to think about that. But what really got me was they took her easter basket away because of what she said, they gave it back at the end of the day but she came off the bus crying. Am i crazy or was that whole thing blown way out of proportion?

Krystle,

Honestly, I think it might have been rude or possibly condensending.  She's EIGHT.  Unless she is differentiating equations, she needs to be taught a different approach.  I would consider that mouthy.

Is is possible that your daughter is hearing your conversations about this issue and said more than she should?

I think it is fine for a child to tell a teacher that they are done.  They simply need to ask for more to do.  I do NOT think it is fine for a child to speak her mind to an adult.  That is not the child's place.  ESPECIALLY for an eight year old.

It would be a rare child that would appreciate a teacher's or parent's effort at most anything.  They don't have the ability to think in those terms yet.

Teachers have to teach to the lowest commond denominator and go from there.  With that said, Having a elementary student tell an adult that this is too easy, may be out of line.   She may not have said it with an attitude, but they teacher could have perceived it that way. 

It is NOT appropriate for children to speak their mind to adults.  It can be quite demeaning and undermining to the teacher especially if any of her classmates heard.  The student is NOT the teachers equal.  If she has been identified as gifted, then it is up to you to communicate with her teachers to determine what is the acceptable approach for her to take with the various teachers when she is needing more challenging work.

I have a 16 year old son that has two different issues, one is he is of very superior intelligence.  Less than 1% of the population is above him.  The second is that he also has Asperger's. It would not be acceptable for him to say this to any of his teachers as far as I am concerned even at his age.  They aren't equals, and based on statistics, he is more than likely more intelligent than them.  I meet with all the teachers at the beginning of the year and give him his IQ and let them know the stats of where they stand with that.  I also advise them not to try and bluff him.  He has been taught by me to show respect to his teachers.  Frankly, his IQ is higher than mine, and mine is quite high.  He does respect a teacher that says, I don't know Nick, lets look that up, or something along those lines.  My point is that although she is bright, it is your responsibility to communicate with the teachers on this matter, not hers.

Talk to the administrator.  Express your concerns about her being bored or how to approach things when she needs more to do.  You could send a worksheet workbook for her to do when she finishes the teacher's assignments to supplement her learning.  This needs to be communicated and approved with the school so she doesn't get in further trouble..  The school is only required to give her grade level assignments.  It is your responsibility to enrich her public education.

I don't know that it was right or correct for the school to take away her basket during the day.  I don't have enough information about that.

Gifted students have to be careful how they talk and act around teachers.  They, or their parents,  can project the wrong vibe.  I think that is what happened here.

I think you overreacted.  You have a long road ahead of you.  I think you will be happier if you are having her enrichment done elsewhere, or put her in a different school.  Most public schools teach in one style and kids that learn outside of that style or are above it, may need a different school.

Good luck!

Anita

Krystle - posted on 04/10/2009

My daughter is 6 and in kindergarden and when they tested her, her scores for the beginning of the year was where higher then where they expect them to be at the end of the year. She's very bright she reads writes and does math but i don't think she's getting what she needs from her classes, she's always bored in school but i don't want her moved up i would like her to stay with kids her own age. I'v recently had an issue with her teacher just before spring break when they did some different activity's and Mya told the teacher it was to easy and the teacher sent home a note saying she was rude and disrespectful because of what she said and that she didn't appreciate the effort the teachers put into putting everything together. I was upset by this because i want my child to speak her mind and if it was easy how was that rude or disrespectful? I also don't thinka child should be concerned with how much effort adults put into planning these events at school they're to young to think about that. But what really got me was they took her easter basket away because of what she said, they gave it back at the end of the day but she came off the bus crying. Am i crazy or was that whole thing blown way out of proportion?

Ani - posted on 04/06/2009

The answer is Free and Appropriate Education.  Being gifted does not fall into the description of this.  All the school/district is required by law is to ensure that they can perform on grade level. 

This is very frustrating to those with gifted children, but if you want to enhance your daughter's learning, and the school can't fit her in, then look for other options.

Natalie - posted on 03/31/2009

First, in many states not adhering to a Gifted Identified Education Program is illegal. As another person said check your particular state. Look at Hoagies Gifted website it has lots of good information. Sometimes certain states also run their own webpage for specifics of that state. Our child is bright but since she went to K and 1 at private none of this was relevant. When we switched to Public for 2-4 it has been very important to stay on top of the “identification” and what you expect the school to provide. They won’t do it unless you use specific threats that lead to action on their part. It is horrid to say but you must get the school at their jugular and the best ways to do this are to threaten and be prepared to sue or pull the kid out of the school. Each child has a dollar figure attached to their head. If you tell them you are messing with your child’s DOLLAR figure they will often listen. You have to constantly advocate on behalf of your child. Figure out exactly what you want from each unit of study and go in to the principal with a doable plan for how to execute the plan. Specific things like, they are not doing advanced reasoning in reading and I want my child to make inferences. After the normal lesson and while the other children are working on grade level work I want my child to do a paper on what the story means or make analogies to the material or look up something related to the material and do a project on it.

Hope this helps. Keep up the fight.

Tina - posted on 03/31/2009

States vary by law so you would be best to try to search your particular state's law. We are dealing with a lot of issues in Idaho right now with our son. He is also 8. We elected to have him skip 2nd grade and this year he is in 4th. He has a severe anxiety disorder for which he is treated however that is not a disorder that qualifies him for any type of 504 plan in Idaho. His IQ is about 160 so he is just thrown in a regular classroom. When he was attacked on the school bus (choked until he almost passed out according to witnesses) the school, district, and school board took no action. The kid was not dismissed from the bus or schoo. and began to make threats against my son, his sister, and his parents (me and my husband).



They do nothing. They do not realize that gifted children can have needs or issues such as anxiety or pefectionism. You do need to continue to fight for your child as we all do. They think "your child is a genius, they have it easy!" but we know that is NOT true! Our children should be legally entitled to just as many rights as other children who do not learn in a "typical" way.



BTW, we had to pull OUR son out of school and he has to finish out the school year in a virtual school. We are still seeking resolution and another school district for him.



Don't stop advocating, even when it looks like you are getting nowhere.

Megan - posted on 03/29/2009

We hit a brick wall with our school district. We ended up pulling him and sending him to a private school. We really don't have the $ for this but there weren't any options with the school district. They said that he didn't qualify for their Acedemicaly Talented program even thought he tests in the upper 2% and has been working above grade level has already become fluent in a second language (he's in a dual language program because we thought that might challenge him). The AT program is only an enrichment not a gifted program, so it's not a lot of help there. I was advised by the Director of Education at one of the local universities to sue the school district to pay for my son's schooling since they were unable to provide for him and there's a legal responsiblity. However, paying for and coming up withthe $ for legal expenses isn't feasible. We're still not sure how we're going to pay for next year. We paid for the portion of school this with our tax return. I got a part time job teaching swim lessons so I can keep my other kids intheir activities. I don't think it's fair to punish my other children because one has "special needs". Good luck with you. I know that sending a kid to a private school isn't always easy but I can tell you that since my son switched everyone is happier. Our stress levels and his are lower and he gets to come home and play after school instead of doing extra work in order to keep him challenged. Feel free to email me. I'ld love to let you vent and brainstorm for other ideas.

Rebekah - posted on 03/27/2009

Amanda,
Based on what I have read in books that advocate for gifted education and on this site, it seems to vary widely from state to state. In many cases it seems that in order to make the school take action parents follow the same course that is necessary for parents of other children who need accommodations, through an IEP or similar route. It also varies so much depending on the attitudes of the teachers and administrators. I would try to find a spirit of cooperation with the school or teachers if possible (what can "we" do to improve this situation?) and then do an IEP as a last resort. A couple of people have told me that they were treated almost as hostile when they advocated for their children in this way (even for non-gifted needs). Sad, but true.

Melinda - posted on 03/26/2009

I live in a very small town. Our schools have no classes for gifted children. I have found it very tough with the school and trying to get them to give my son harder work. First it was that they could not then it was that they did not have enough staff and now my son, whom is still extremely bright is really beginning for fall. A once straight A student is getting by with C's. But when he takes the NECAP test he is still way above the norm. He has just gotten accepted in to the Johns Hopkins University Center for Talented Youth Program. I am hopeful this will trun him around in the right direction.

Cynthia - posted on 03/26/2009

I dealt with this issue with my son - in the first grade his teachers started complaining to me that he was a trouble maker, always bothering other kids. My first question - is he being challenged enough? Do you think he is bored? They also felt he had maturity issues - it is very common for gifted children to be "behind" in some areas of maturity and well ahead academically. They tend to get easily frustrated when things are not "perfect" because they have such high expectations of themselves, and it can appear to a regular teacher as being whiney or throwing a temper tantrum. I was in the gifted program as a child and experienced many of the same issues so it was relatively easy to see it in my son. It took me 1 1/2 years to get him tested - I had to push and shove! You should do everything you have to in order to keep your daughter in the forefront - pester the heck out of the administration until they find a place for her! It makes SUCH a difference to the kids when they are able to get the academic environment that they need to thrive, and as you said the psychological understand that goes with it.

Kylie - posted on 03/26/2009

Hi Amanda, My daughter is also 8 and her teacher this year has just requested I have her retested for placement within the gifted programme and I have declined due to our gifted programme being of no real value and that she has a wonderful teacher this year who I am sure will extend her in class. Unfortunately our school no longer offers composite classes - I wish they did as I have only heard great things from parents with a child given this opportunity. It seems to allow the child to do the work at least a year above grade level while still mixing socially with children of their own year so not quite as drastic as acceleration.

As to perfectionism I know what you mean but I have drilled into my daughter who is also very athletic that you give 100% at everything you do and then hand it over to the universe as you cannot do better than your best . She seemed to be getting it but I was not really sure until yesterday when she was "touched out" (lost by under .3 of a second) for a place in the team competing at the all school state swim carnival next week - earlier this would have upset her but yesterday she was brimming with pride and she told me it was because she gets it now - she did her best and knew that and so was able to bask in her achievement - it was such a high for all of us - I just hope she can hold onto that.