Test results are in and I'm confused.

Amy - posted on 02/21/2009 ( 10 moms have responded )

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I've posted a few time about my son Micah. This however is about my daughter. I recently had her tested because I felt she was struggling in school and behind her peers. My youngest son has a IEP for speech, only.



My daughter is 12 yr old (dec 19th) and in the 6th grade.



Her results were.

Reading Comp ~ 11th grade 7 month

Written Expresseion ~ 12 grade 11 month (that's almost college leve, right?)



Here is where I'm confused. Her math scores all came back at below grade level the lowest score coming in at 4th grade 3rd month. The highest score coming back at 5th grade 6th month.



Does that make her gifted? The "weird" part for me is that I had her tested because I felt her reading and comp was below grade level and she was struggling because of it. Now I wonder how much of that was because she compares herself to Micah, who is highly gifted? Ryan, my daughter, is very analytical. Her vocab is also above her peers and always has been. As a parent I thought most of that was due to her brother and his level. Now I wonder how much of that is she is highly gifted herself but held back due to her brother and his advanced level?

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Amy - posted on 02/26/2009

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Thanks everyone for your reply's.



What I got from her (old) school was that because she tested so high in reading (comp and expression) that it doesn't matter that her math scores are so low she does not meet the standards for extra help.



There is a huge gap between her math (4th grade 3rd month) and her reading. That to me, points to a learning challenge if not disability.



We just moved so hopfully the new school district (different state) will be better and give me some better options for Ryan.



When I enrolled the kids in the new school and expressed some concerns about my youngest and how easy the homework is for him they asked me if I wanted to get him tested for AP or Gifted. They seem to be more aware and have a better system for gifted/advanced kids.

Julianne - posted on 02/26/2009

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She could be one of the ones that is considered dually diagnosed. My friends 10 yr old son e(4th grade) is in both the gifted and LEARNING support. He is gifted but is also learning diabled Hope it helps some.

Elisabeth - posted on 02/25/2009

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Hi, My son was evaluated and his IQ was set at somewhere above 160, but he also has ADHD and Dyspraxia. So a child can be highly gifted but also have learning issues. I would suggest having her IQ tested, and finding out where she stands. It is a good starting point, (it also helps when she wants to go to magnet programs, apply for scholarships, etc) later on in school, and perhaps the psychologist who does the testing can be of some help in recognizing some of the other problems if they exist. My son had to do OT for a few months, that we would never have picked up on, if we hadn't gone in to have his IQ checked and see if he had ADHD. The center we went to found it all out in the testing they did and it has made a world of difference for him.



Hope it helps..

Elisabeth Scott

Samantha - posted on 02/23/2009

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Amy thaks for your post. I'd like to add to the other info. you've gotten here. Giftedness can be in a single area. Extreme talent is also considered giftedness. Someone might score below grade level on all subject areas but excel beyond their years at playing a musical instrument or comprehending and reproducing difficult artistic concepts. There's a whole big long range of giftedness and it definitely sounds like your daughter is exhibiting giftedness in some areas. I would say have her IQ tested. The label "gifted" gets you put on the top of the pile when it comes to college applications and you dont want a boost like that to slip through the cracks.



Hope that helps. Good luck!

Pam - posted on 02/22/2009

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My son just completed a full round of testing and is considered profoundly gifted in verbal IQ - reasoning skills, etc. This is just as we expected. What surprised us, however, was that he is also challenged by Dysgraphia.  In a nutshell, he can formulate the answers in his head but cannot put them on paper quickly - if at all. It was actually a relief to learn there was an explanation for all the fighting over basic assignments. Keep looking for the answer, you will be so relieved when you find it.

Ellen - posted on 02/22/2009

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I'm in agreement with Kylie. Looks on the suface that there may be a learning disability, but I would not be sure without looking over both the IQ and achievement tests. It is possible for gifted children to have a learning disability, but still not be below grade level in any area. Our school no lomnger goes through a set point value discrepancy between IQ and achievement, but looks more at the academic functioning of the student. If the discrepancy is significant and inhibits academic abiility we provide services to support that student.



The good news is that the 6th grade skills on those tests are very similar to the 4th and 5th grade and maybe just a brief remediation in those concepts would bring them up. I would look at specifics and target them. If it's in math calculation, work specifically on adding subtracting multiplying dividing with adding in the complexity of fractions and decimals. Might want to hit on order of operations over the summer. If you have the means and one near by I would recommend going to the Kumon Center for tutoring. It was much cheeper than Sylvan, and had a better curriculum for my son who was hiding his skills. He's much better at performing to his ability level now because of the confidence boost and seeing kids like him there working. I also liked the spiral learning concept.

Kylie - posted on 02/21/2009

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Hi Amy, One thing maybe worth considering is a learning difficulty. As your son has issues with his speech, have you considered auditory processing issues for your daughter. My daughter was tested for auditory processing issues and even though she was in the top 2% for almost everything it did highlight two issues - one that there was an issue with her auditory processing, her receptive language was a standard deviation below her expressive (still above the 80th% but enough of a deviation to qualify as ADP - NOT ACCORDING TO THE SCHOOL THOUGH).



And for the second time it highlighted an issue with her working memory. This manifests only in mathematics for my daughter (mind you she still managed an A). She is most definitely getting better as she gets older but she still slightly struggles with mental mathematics in comparison to her other skills (again above average but below the rest of her abilities). This is due in part to the issues with her working memory (again because it is around the 80th% the school does not recognise it as a learning difficulty, even though the child psych's say it is most definitely one due to it being more than a standard deviation below the rest of her results).



One other thing to consider is how does she learn - visually, auditory or kinesthetic. My daughter is very visual due to her ADP, which also affects her mathematically (particularly in terms of processing speed) and why she is stronger in some areas mathematically than others. A great book about visually gifted learners is "Upside-Down Brillance" by Linda Silverman, website http://www.visualspatial.org/udb.htm.



Sorry for rambling but I know how frustrating major discrepancies in tests can be. The only testing my daughter has had is through school and I have been told by leading child psych's here that they are not really worth much because teachers are not trained enough in giftedness to properly analyse test results, so that may also be something to consider - was the person administering the test, highly experienced in testing for giftedness.



Hope this helps a bit.



 

Deborah - posted on 02/21/2009

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Amy,

Couple of things I can add on knowledge base but not personal experience since my daughter is only a toddler.

My first question is what kind of test did she take? Have you considered testing her IQ? It might answer some of your questions.

Also there is many levels to gifted. If you accept Ruf's definitions of levels your daughter would be (on the test information you provided) a level 2 gifted since she shows signs of abilities in verbal but not in math. Again ... this is from the test information and not even considering if she is a 2E child which might be the reason she is testing lower in math.

Food for thought: most experts will talk about siblings in how they are usually about 10 pts. in IQ differences between them. So I have no idea what your son's IQ is but if the argument is valid then your daughter's IQ should be around 10 pts from his.

The fact that your daughter is not performing up to her abilities in verbal/reading/written expression is not a shocker. Could be she is a causality of the system and suffers in silence which a lot of girls will do. We hear more about boys acting out in class and being diagnosed with ADD/ADHD when they really are gifted and bored, while girls tend to stay quiet and suffer.

But your concern about your daughter in the shadow of your son is valid and one I would work on. Spend some quality one on one time with her. Make sure she knows her worth in general but specifically to you. It is possibly part of why she hasn't performed to her abilities.

Zoe - posted on 02/21/2009

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sounds like me!  Turns out my speach processing deficit (I scramble numbers like credit cards) made doing math in my head tricky.  I wasn't fast at basic math facts (someone should have done more flashcards with me) - I was still calculating all that stuff. (honestly 7+4 for me is still 7+3 is 10, so one more is 11.)



It was my high school geometry teacher who noticed that in some ways I am good at math (turns out there are 6 strands to doing things like algebra) and while I am gifted at spacial relations and logic, integers are a bit of work for me.   He made me come back to his classroom and do my homework there, after school, so he could help me when I got "stuck in the middle".  Instantly went to 98% for the rest of the year.  For the rest of my life I have been a HUGE believer in office hours.  Turns out I don't learn math in an hour lecture - I need to do it as well (and most lectures just have simple practice problems, and the tougher ones are in the homework.)  Turns out I take much longer than my peers at the homework, but my test scores are higher.



I have read that 1) gifted kids aren't evenly gifted.  Some even have learning disabilities. 2) some people are gifted with emotional stuff, and natural sciences, which doesn't come into play in the average classroom.  This one book listed out the 12 intellegences (I feel they need to add a 13th, "computers and software") and I had to agree.  One can have an astounding ability to soak up history, art history, botany, natural sciences.... but struggle with memorizing strings of numbers!

[deleted account]

shew that's a tough one.



I haven't been through the testing phase and so I can't say for sure. Obviously the test results DO point to verbal and linguistic giftedness. I am not sure about the results for the maths though - esp. since you say she is analytical?



That seems rather confusing to me.



I can't comment on why this is like this or if her results are what they are due to the focus being on Micah etc... hope you can get to the crux of the matter so that she can start "finding" herself... best of luck! looking forward to hearing more

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