Can you imagine being asked to obtain permission from all of those people before being allowing to photograph your own kid?

Shawnn - posted on 11/07/2012

Kristi-



Been around a bit...LOL...Worked here, worked there, covered quite a few different occupations!



And most of them are complicated...LOL

Kristi - posted on 11/06/2012

Shawnn--



Are you always right about everything? ; )

Shawnn - posted on 11/06/2012

Ok, from the side of the basketball association, here's the reason:



Every single one of those kids has to turn in a "permission to photograph" form (or some variation of). There are some parents who DO NOT want their children photographed. Whether it be because they're out of a bitter relationship and they don't want their kids face published so that the ex can't find them, or they're in the witness protection program, the reason behind it is no one's business but theirs. HOWEVER, if they've requested that no pics be taken...none can be taken, unless they specifically give permission for a certain circumstance.



We actually had to confiscate a camera and destroy the film of a grad student here who came on to our playground and was snapping random shots of kids playing for an article she was doing for school, because we didn't have parental permission for her to be photographing the kids.



I'm all about sharing prideful moments, but I will admit, when one of my kid's friend's mothers posted a photo of MY kid on her FB page (because he was in the pic with her daughter), I was a little perturbed that she didn't at least let me know she was posting it. I don't care that it's there, and I didn't make a stink about it, but (especially considering that his friend's mom is one of my friends from hs...)I would have had the courtesy to ask her permission before posting a photo of her daughter, and I would have appreciated the same courtesy

Hope - posted on 11/06/2012

That's a bit much....people post videos on youtube all the time. Remember the one where the lady tripped and fell into a fountain? She tried to sue and got jack diddley squat.....all that she accomplished was further embarrassing herself.

Kristi - posted on 06/27/2012

Veronica-- I agree with you 100%! Your post is very well spoken and articulate. I argued many of the same points in my earlier posts, but I don't think they were put together as well as yours. In addition to pointing out that social media outlets do provide an option to report inappropriate pics, your points about cyber bullying laws and holding those that do improperly use someone else's images, are excellent. Thanks for sharing!

Veronica - posted on 06/27/2012

Things are getting a bit crazy with respect to being able to take pictures. Yes there is the potential to misuse pictures online, and not just by pervs. But most social networking sites will allow you to report pictures that make any personal attacks, and the laws are starting to catch up to technology with issues such as cyber bullying. Not saying its perfect, but should we take away the freedom of parents to take/post perfectly innocent pictures of their kids to share with friends and family, because a few nasty people might either take their own picture that is not very flattering, or somehow find a picture that a stranger took which happens to include someone else's kid, modify it in a way that causes harm to that person, and post it online for all to see? I don't think most adults would bother finding the time or malicious intent to do this to a child and in the odd case they did, that is what they need cyber bullying laws for because it is obviously malicious intent that most likely would have manifested with or without said photo.

And as for kids doing this to other kids, by the time they understand how to make that level of editing in Photoshop and have their own social media accounts and an online presence they certainly have the skills to take a picture of their own discreetly on their cellphones, regardless of the rules that may prohibit it, without needing to resort to tracking down old pictures taken by a stranger which happen to also contain their target. And if someone happens to stumble across a photo of someone and edit it, and somehow identify the face of the person in it, and somehow use it against them, sure that would be bad, but that is not likely and I am pretty sure it is illegal to modify pictures with the intent of defaming someone's character, so that person could be held accountable. But who is going to bother taking the time to do that to a child? And it is not like everyone is going around using facial recognition software to pick out some stranger's face in a picture and use it to harm their reputation or bully them, most pictures with anonymous faces in them will remain anonymous to those viewing them, and most of the time the people viewing them could care less who that stranger is.

Have some faith in the majority of humanity... and yes bad things do happen and the people who do them need to be held legally accountable, and there are some lots of bad pictures floating around the internet, but don't take the freedom of the majority of decent people to photograph and share their memories of their children with friends and family and to preserve those memories because the occasional bad apple may abuse that freedom... because really, if you are taking pictures of your elementary school kids who is going to bother using them against them, or tracking the pictures down once the kids in the photo are older, and by that time I am sure they and their friends will have the ability to take/post their own photos to their own Facebook etc anyways. And it is not like future employers or something are going to use facial recognition software to track down pictures of their potential employee as a child playing sports in a public place and use that as justification to not employ that person, even if the picture is a bit funny. "Oh Mr. Smith, we can't hire you because in this photo from 20 years ago which we spent many hours and resources to track down, since it was taken by a stranger with no connection to you, of you playing soccer as a child the camera angle and Photoshop work makes it appear as if you are grabbing this other boy's butt, and that is not acceptable for our hiring policy." REALLY? I mean even if it were photoshopped to look as if a child were doing something really bad like drugs, it takes a lot of skill to pass it off as real, and who is going to bother doing that with pictures from a sporting event? I think the paranoia in this case is a bit extreme....

Kristi - posted on 06/24/2012

Aleksandra--

I understand your point of view and I don't disagree with the examples you gave and the potential risks of social media. There are lots of irresponsible people doing inappropriate things and aren't capable of thinking 2 seconds into the future. But I'd like to think that moms and dads and friends that come to support their child, niece, cousin, next door neighbor or classmate are not in that group of irresponsible, inappropriate people. Maybe I'm being too niave or I'm living in an alternate universe. I just believe most of us still follow the "standard rules" of basic human decency. I don't want my daughter going through any excess emotional stress, either. The thought of someone doing something inappropriate with her picture makes me sick. But that swings me back around to the whole perv thing, public events and extreme cases. If FB changes their policy and says they will be able to use my photos, I will take them all down, as I'm sure many people would. If someone were in the girls locker room taking pictures of the girls in various stages of undress, we're talking a whole different ball game. But for now, I'm going to put my faith in the spectators of my daughter's gymnastics meets, as they have with me and allow people to take pictures at public sporting events. Because the next thing you know, we won't be able to take pictures at amuesement parks or on vacations anymore. I'm just not ready to sign off on that yet.

Aleks - posted on 06/23/2012

Its not about tracking kids down. Or pervs doing pervy things. Its about others using and abusing photos of YOU, YOUR kids or anyone else, for that matter. If you choose to upload your photos of yourself and your kids then fine, that is YOUR choice. However, when you choose to upload photos that include clearly visible pictures of MY kids, then that choice is taken out of my hands.



These photos can be accessible by anybody to do whateve they wish (even if your security settings are tight). What makes you think that a site such as Facebook or Twitter (or any other like this) changes their privacy policy, marketing policy, and whatever else which then allows the use of uploaded images to be used for marketing purposes???? You did not give this consent. And with that image around in advertising... then its almost open slather for who will have access to it.



What about that awkward shot during a sporting moment? You know, the right angle at just the right time... and that photo where normally you would delete from your own camera if it was your own kid... or if it was normal "hard copy" photo, you would probably destroy and throw in the bin, is now forever in cyber space doing the rounds as a joke for everone around the world to laugh at. And what happens then when the said child (the butt of all jokes around the world 5-9 years ago) happens upon this picture ?



I don't have issue with people taking photos. I do, too, think its kind of crazy what is suggested in the OP. However, one also has to be aware of is the potential here. There are people around with all sorts of differing attitudes and beliefs. I have a close friend who allowed her 9yo daughter to have her own FB account. To me that is CRAZY and very irresponsible. I have seen people post naked picture of their kids on FB as well... same opinion as far as I'm concerned as for the 9yo with an FB account. Yet there are people who do this, and without batting an eyelid and think its ok.



And these are some of the things we will have to start to contend with. And frankly, I would like to protect my kids from such, if at all possible.

I don't want my child, who may be going through some tough emotional things as a teenager have to at the same time put up with the embarrasment or worse, because of some callous idiot who decided its funny to put up a picture of a kid in such an awkward moment (even if it really is funny)! This "funny" moment may be extremely embarissing for the said person in the picture.



Idk... that is just me... be careful of what you do incase it might just come back and bite you in the arse later... yet some people tend to have a very little capacity in predicting even the most simplest reprecursions of their actions.

Teresa - posted on 06/23/2012

I don't see the harm in a kid in a photo. I takea lot of pics with different and unknown kids in pics being a cub scout leader and sunday school teacher, you end up with some unknown kid in your pic. I don't know the exact statistics but I bet its pretty low on someone seing a random kid in a random pic and tracking that kid down.

Kristi - posted on 06/23/2012

Agreed Abby! She and those other "people" at Penn State who stood by all these years and did nothing, they are as guilty as he is, at least as. I'd give you my honest opinion about what we should do with him, but that's a little off topic and I don't think that kind of graphic language, detail and violence is permitted on here. LOL It's bad, but it's not THAT bad!

Abby - posted on 06/23/2012

Too funny Kristi!
His wife should be in prison, too, in my opinion. There is NO way she didn't hear those kids crying for help in her basement. His adopted son Matt came forward this week, too. She freakin had to know something.
Prisoners do not take well to child molesters. I hope to God that his cell mate takes real good care of him.

Kristi - posted on 06/23/2012

YES!!!!!!!!!! ROTTEN BASTARD---JUSTICE IS SERVED!!!!!!!

Okay, just a little over zealous. I hate to say it, but he'll probably live out his disgusting, pathetic life in some sort special isolation because of who is and because of what he's done. I'm with you, Jennifer, he should be left for "karma" to get him now. I heard "Karma" was about 6'8" 375lbs and likes 'em Sandusky style.

Jennifer - posted on 06/22/2012

Jerry Sandusky just found guilty of 45 out of 48 counts. Now he gets to be attacked in prison, and won't they just love to get their hands on him in there? No one deserves it more than him. I hope they make him bleed in there.

Kristi - posted on 06/21/2012

You could have stuck it in there sideways....I still wouldn't have known or figured out what it meant! Der! I don't even know how to tell when someone's comment has been edited, unless they say it. Lord have mercy on the feeble minded. (me) LOL

Aleks - posted on 06/21/2012

Yeah... sorry I stuck it (ETA) at the front. I originally stuck it at the back as per usual, however, felt that the line was more important and would work better as a starting line.. so I broke with convention :-) (shrugs)

Kelly - posted on 06/20/2012

ETA usually means Edited To Add



A lot of times we stick it at the end of a post to let others know we added that part of a post after the original posting.

Kristi - posted on 06/20/2012

I know that was a general post, but thanks just the same, I did not know that!

Kelly - posted on 06/20/2012

The laws in most states stipulate that rights to an image taken in a public place (meaning FROM a public place of a person or thing IN a public place) belong exclusively to the photographer, regardless of whom appears in the images. This is how paparazzi legally skirt the law.

So, the main issue at hand would be whether the place the images were recorded was considered "public" or not.

Now, that said, if a person appearing in the image feels that the image causes them harm, that person can sue the photographer for damages. Should the person appearing in the images do so, he/she is responsible for all legal costs for both parties if the court decides the lawsuit is frivolous.

Kristi - posted on 06/20/2012

You do make some good points, Aleksandra. I can respect that. But for me personally, you can't really tell who's who because most of the time everybody is off to the side, my daughter is in gymnastics. My profile settings on FB are set so that only my friends can see my pictures, not friends of friends. And if you do a search for me you cannot see my pictures either. I only have a few friends and most of them are my family and friends that live across the country and have no other way of seeing my daughter. So, although I don't ask permission, I am pretty responsible and I'm sure I'm not alone. But I'm not niave enough to know that what you say isn't a possiblity, too. However, I don't think that most people will deliberatly pick out some random kid and photoshop them in harmful manner or at all, really. What would be the point unless you are a predator, which takes me back to my original comment. Even with older teens, for example, a couple just breaks up and there is animosity so to get back at one or the other someone does photoshop a picture of the other in an embarrassing or hurtful manner. She will not need to search me out, the mother of the team he played against last week, to get a photo that he may or may not be in. IMO, it just seems too over the top to ban people from taking pictures at public sporting events (kids).
P.S. pardon my ignorance at this, but does ETA mean here?

Aleks - posted on 06/19/2012

ETA: this issues isn't just about "pervs". Its about identity sovereignty (spell?), ownership of one's own image and privacy.



The problem at the moment is the fact that these images can then appear anywhere and with anybody having access to them, including doing whatever they want with the image of the people and things within the photo.



This was not a problem 15-20yrs ago because numerous things didn't exists - such as the pervacivness of the internet and especially social media (fb, twitter, etc). And neither was digital photography. These two things, mainly, allow all sorts of things to be done to an image of another person (and also their identity FOR EVER!) online, which then remains and can be retraced by anyone, including future schools and employers, to name a few, not to mention future friends and romantic partners.



We have been warned at my son's school that they may ban photographs being taken by parents at the school because many images of other children are appearing on FB and Twitter (obviously without the parents' consent).

Some people are quite protective over their kids photos on the internet, including their idenitites in such places. Others, don't think twice about it, and allow some interesting stuff for their kids online, or they themselves decide to post some things online that others would never do.



So.. yeah... this is a different world we live it these days. Taking a photo isn't just taking a photo anymore... its almost taking someone's image and being able to do whatever one wants with it, and the owner of their image seems to be powerless in this. Is this fair???



This is what we need to be asking ourselves in this regard.



I personally will not post images of children (if they can be easily identified) that happen to have been in the photo of my kids on fb, OUT OF RESPECT. But some don't think this way, and plaster other kids' faces on their fb pages willy-nilly, without the parents' (I am sure of it) consent. Would you like this to happen to your kids?

I don't!



This is my 5cents worth :-)

Jakki - posted on 06/19/2012

I'm with you Katherine.

Next thing - you won't be allowed to LOOK at kids playing sport.

Kristi - posted on 06/18/2012

That is ridiculous. Are they going to close down sporting events to immediate family only, i.d. and birth certificates, please. I hate to break it to these people, but the kid on the other team, who is the same picture with my kid, could just as easily have a pedophile for a dad as any by-stander or friend of a friend on Facebook. Look at Jerry Sandusky from Penn State and all the people who were revered and trusted by families for years that knowingly let Sandusky's abuse continue...Pervs are everywhere and it can happen to anyone. Banning parents from taking pictures of their children at a public event is not going to protect children from the boogey man. We have to do our best to be vigilant, to teach our childern about the dangers that are out there and how they can protect themselves (all age appropriately), and stay in the loop. I agree with Laura, we want our kids to live their lives, not be afraid of it.

Jayce - posted on 06/18/2012

When my son was in Little Kickers (soccer for toddlers), there was a policy in place that stated you weren't to take any pictures because it was a violation of others privacy. This same policy is in place at all the indoor playgrounds in the area. I don't know about the schools, guess l'll find out in September.

Stifler's - posted on 06/17/2012

Are the kids naked playing netball? wtf. who cares if someone sees it. here if it's a school event people must sign permission forms to have their pic taken though for the paper or appear on the news.

Jurnee - posted on 06/17/2012

My sons school too, its only for pics taken by the school, any parent can take pics when theyre at the school. Ive had lots of parents take pics of my son for me when I couldnt be there. I didtn have to give them premission, I didnt even ask them, they just thought it would be a nice thing to do. I really dont see how you can stop people from taking pics at a kids game, we do it all the time at baseball. Anyone can come to a game, their in a public field.

Katherine - posted on 06/17/2012

My daughter has those rules in her school too, but it's not about taking photo's of her and other kids! Just if it's ok for the school.

Jurnee - posted on 06/17/2012

I think its a bit too much. My sons school does send home a consent form at the beginning of each school yr, giving consent for photos that may be taken at events, and they may be posted on the school website, newspapers, etc. I have no problem with it. Sporting events are genereally open to the public, so I dont understand why they have this policy. What's next will you have to get permission if grandma or auntie wants to attend a game. I'm hadly free range either, some say im overprotective, but I do try to use common sense. Unless you keep your kids locked in the house, people will see them. Sometimes even bad people will see them, thats just a part of life, and I want my kids to live their life, not be afraid of it.