Delicate situation/warning

Julianne - posted on 10/29/2011

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Julianne

Katherine - posted on 10/28/2011

Jeanette, my friend passed away. She overdosed. But I continued the friendship regardless of my own issues.

Jeannette - posted on 10/28/2011

Well, it is not as if she is forcing you to have an abortion. I used to have a bumper sticker, which was a Mother Teresa quote: It is a tragedy that a child must die so that you may live as you wish. I had people telling me that they/girlfriend had had abortions, and that I probably wouldn't like them.
In some cases, they were right. I didn't 'click' or get along with them, but it had nothing to do with them having had an abortion, it was personality disorder/disagreement.:)
I know people who have had abortions, but I would never have one. Not even in the case of rape.
I would not pay for either of my daughters to have an abortion, nor would I drive them to have one that they paid for themselves. I am with you in that you can love someone, but not support what they do.
I think you just need to love your friend where she is in life. I don't believe she made her decision and has no feelings...I believe she feels plenty. Just love her anyway and try not to talk about the abortion if you feel you will be judgemental. However, if you can say things like, you are strong for having to make such a hard decision - God loves you still - and so on, then you could talk about it. She obviously knows you are against it, so trying to make her feel bad/worse won't help the friendship.
Good luck to you and your friend! I hope you are able to mend the friendship Katherine! ♥

Angela - posted on 10/23/2011

I did not read the post...
But it is always sad prolife or not... when their is a loss

Stifler's - posted on 10/23/2011

Don and Donna that reminds me of Damian's sister. Her dad's name is Desmond or "des" for short and she is Desrae and i always just call her Dez lol

Georgia - posted on 10/22/2011

LMAO I've thought "Luz"... don't even ask me why! But, "Feen" does come out nicely and fits.

In my head, I always call you "Em". No way to shorten my name... well, that's not true. I've had a few people call me "Don" which I hate! H.A.T.E.! (was my father's name)

Stifler's - posted on 10/21/2011

I honestly sometimes want to call Loureen "Lozza" or something

Georgia - posted on 10/21/2011

Yeah, but at least you ARE an Aussie... I'm just a transplant! 12 years does not a local make... or maybe it does. If you met me irl you'd think I just got off the boat.



edit to add: But not a leaky one!

Stifler's - posted on 10/21/2011

OMG Donna I feel the same way. I want to call other people on here by Aussie slang shortenings too.

Gina - posted on 10/21/2011

I'm so sorry Katherine, It would have been a huge shock to you.I hope you're ok,and I think you were a great friend to her.

Georgia - posted on 10/21/2011

No, you're probably right. You can vent about it in a month or two so that someone else can take it all out of context and rag on you for it.

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

It never occurred to me to come here and vent about it.....I guess it hasn't quite sunk in yet.

Georgia - posted on 10/21/2011

Katherine (you know, I'm so tempted to call you "Kat" or "Kazza" every time I write your name... been in friggin' Oz too long! lol)



I ♥ you too!





P.S. Anger is the second stage of grief. Totally normal for you to be mad at her for dying.



P.P.S. What I'm upset about (not angry), is that you've been carrying that info on your own since JULY!

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

@ Mercedes, in all honesty, I am so MAD at her for doing that to herself (overdosing). She was a lot of things. And she was beautiful. I just can't believe still. Well it's only been since July 27th.

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

Aww, I ♥ you Donna.

Georgia - posted on 10/21/2011

And THAT'S what sets you apart from the normal pro-lifer, Katherine. You could see beyond the "OMG she's killed a life!" to the actual person behind it, when most can't.

You truly deserve to be commended for extending your hand in friendship without strings. Despite her going against what you so strongly believe about abortion (and we know what a hot button topic that is), you were there for her to try and help. You're a rare person, Katherine, and I'm so proud to be able to call you my friend.

Hopefully people who are pro-life/anti-choice can learn from this woman's life. To learn that most times it's not just about "murdering a baby", but that there are real people behind the termination.

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

I actually did continue my friendship. It was more important to me than my stance. I do feel strongly about abortion, but this was the first time I was in this situation.
In retrospect, her loss of life wasn't worth my stance.

Isobel - posted on 10/21/2011

Katherine, I am sorry for your loss. That doesn't change my recommendation, in fact I would recommend ALL of the women on here who feel that they could not continue a friendship with somebody who's had an abortion to warn all of their friends that.

Carolee - posted on 10/21/2011

It probably would be best to look through the posts, though. At least the last couple of pages. There's been a lot of developments with the situation.

Isobel - posted on 10/21/2011

Katherine, I haven't read all the posts yet, but I would honestly recommend you telling all of your friends your stance on abortion...truly tell them that you have lost friendships over the topic. I find it difficult to believe that people know how serious you are in your beliefs and that they could lose you as a friend if they keep confiding these things in you.

Mercedes - posted on 10/21/2011

wow well my ex (my sons father) was addicted to pills and he couldnt get off the pills long enough to take care of his son thats why hes an ex and idk if the babies wouldve been ok or not cuz if she did alot of things all at once it couldve really messed the babies up and im sorry to hear she passed... its hard to try and figure out why people do the things they do but they always have their reasons

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

She was REALLY addicted to drugs, pills. Soma, vicodin, clonopin, Xanax, you name it. She would take them all at once. That's what killed her.
So maybe the babies would have been fine, maybe not.

Mercedes - posted on 10/21/2011

im pro choice to a point the facet that shes 30 and couldve provided for the kids i dont see why she did it unless shes just addicted to the drugs and she wouldnt be able to stop during the pregnancy then its kind of understandable cuz the kids wouldve been worse off but she couldve gave them up for adoption idk exactly what to think of this

Katherine - posted on 10/21/2011

Wow, thank you everyone.

Kellie - posted on 10/20/2011

Ahh Shannin I love you!

I also Second Donna (or third).

Katherine, I'd ignore it. Clearly she is here to stir up shit. Don't feed the Troll.

Stifler's - posted on 10/20/2011

ANd I second the motion that this is not a debating forum.

Stifler's - posted on 10/20/2011

If I was in the situation Katherine was in I would have needed to vent too. It's awful watching a friend do things like that and not being able to help them.

Jurnee - posted on 10/20/2011

Erin, did you even read the entire, thread? Katherine was venting , which is what this community is for, about how to support her friend when she didnt agree with her choice.She was being there for her friend, thats what friends do,show compassion and empathy, even when they dont agree with their decisions. Amazngly , you are the one bitching about empathy and showing the least bit of empathy, compassion and support. Maybe you should learn to walk in anothers shoes before you judge them.

Elizabeth - posted on 10/20/2011

Donna, I've been trying to find an eloquent way of stating exactly what you said so rather than creating my own post, I will simply say, I second yours.

Georgia - posted on 10/20/2011

Um, yeah... I shoulda just let you guys do the talking since you use much fewer words to say the same thing. :-\ lol

Shannin, now now... be nice. You know you'd have her for a midnight snack. :-)

Georgia - posted on 10/20/2011

@Erin, firstly I'd start with... Perhaps you should read the thread before posting such nonsense!

If you HAD read through the thread, you would have come to know that while the abortion had bothered Katherine (since she is pro-life), she could see that for her friend an abortion was probably in her best interest. She was very clear in relaying to us that she was conflicted within herself because while she does not like abortion, she knew in her heart it's what this woman should have done given her situation.

I think she made an intelligent choice in coming on here to vent her feelings about her friend's termination, rather than telling her friend how she felt. Katherine has a great deal of compassion and empathy for others, hence why she's had jobs counseling people who are suffering through a variety of issues. But just because she can exhibit empathy and concern for people it doesn't mean she can't have her own feelings about issues that arise. What would be TOTALLY inappropriate is to express those feelings to someone who is down. Unlike you, Katherine is NOT one to kick a person when they are down.

The only person who has shown a total lack of empathy is the one being most vocal about it... you. It's even more clear that you hadn't bothered reading ANYTHING in this thread apart from the OP because not only didn't you know she actually said that she thinks the termination was in her friend's best interest, but you also hadn't taken any notice of the DATES things have been written. The OP is from MAY and she's only just now said her friend has died. Her initial rant was five months ago and the friend was still alive at the time. Katherine's only just informed us that this woman has passed away, so would most obviously be grieving the loss and you, the oh so empathetic one, has decided that it's appropriate to chastise her about a five month old rant.

I'm all for having a differing opinion, calling people out when you think they have been inappropriate or wrong and stating exactly how you feel about a topic. But before one speaks, one should examine the evidence FULLY before drawing conclusions. That would be the way to launch an intelligent assault.

P.S. Katherine, I'm sorry that you're having to deal with crap while trying to cope with this loss. I hope you're doing okay. Btw, see, you do have friends out here who are more than willing to stand behind you 100% because we know that you don't go off half cocked.

Shannintipton - posted on 10/20/2011

Erin, Here's my link. Lets play........

http://www.circleofmoms.com/ladies-bitch...

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

Not to mention this was a post from 5 months ago, which makes me think that you just wanted to start trouble Erin.

√v^√v^√♥ - posted on 10/20/2011

Katherine has the RIGHT to say however she feels whether you agree with her 'judgement' or not. She has the right to judge. Or do you wish to take that away from everyone? Is that your job? To cut people down for their feelings?

Carolee - posted on 10/20/2011

I'm sorry, but this still bugs me. Exactly what part of the title "Delicate situation/warning" made you think that tact would be optional?

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

Erin, I have no words. I'm completely floored by your disposition.
She died AFTER the abortion. LOL, shut down the community. Wow. Just wow.

Shannintipton - posted on 10/20/2011

Wow Erin, Are you stupid or new??? Oh wait you must be from Cafemom. Well just so you know, we support each other here. I think you are looking for the debating community. Let them have a go at you. I would love to see that. Do you want the link???

Carolee - posted on 10/20/2011

"Put yourself in her shoes before you post a rant." - Erin

Perhaps she couldn't fathom doing what her friend did. Hence, she came here to express her feelings and hopefully get other people's POV on the situation to help her make sense of it.

"You're only mad at me because I called you out on it." - Erin

No. She's probably mad at you because you are judging her rather harshly while she's trying to cope with this situation.

"You had no right to judge her for doing what she thought was best for HER." - Erin

Please! Everybody judges everybody else for EVERY single choice they make. Some people just have found a way to say to themselves, "I wouldn't have done that, but... whatever".

"No real friend would come online and do what you have done." - Erin

I definately would (and have) if I was struggling with being able to be supportive of a friend. It's better to get help understanding first before going off on a friend who is already in a delicate state.

"If you can't handle someone calling you out on your behaviour, then perhaps you should get off the internet and close your group down. " - Erin

Honestly, if you are going to verbally attack the admin of a group, then there is no reason for you to be in said group. This is Katherine's group, not yours. As her friend, I will stand up for her (as I am sure many others will) when people are rude to her as you were.

"My biggest issue is that you made your friend out to be some heartless woman because she chose to have an abortion instead of going through the pregnancy. Her choices were hers alone and instead of supporting her, you came on here and ranted about how she's a horrible person." - Erin

I never got that Katherine thought her friend was a horrible person. I think she did the right thing to try to get some understanding about the situation (which is what I believe she was doing).

"You can't expect to post a rant online and not have someone disagree with you." - Erin

Yes, people will disagree. That doesn't mean they have to be rude. There is such a thing as tact, even and especially when you hold an opposing view.

Katherine, I am sorry if, at any time, I accidentally put words in your mouth or misread or misrepresented anything.

I am really sorry that you lost your friend. I haven't lost any friends recently, but I have in the past.

Jane - posted on 10/20/2011

"No real friend would come online and do what you have done."

So a "real friend" would go scream at the woman in question, destroy any remaining self-esteem the woman might have and drive her away? Or a "real friend" would let her feelings fester so it becomes impossible to help the woman at all?

You are riding the wrong horse, Erin.

Jane - posted on 10/20/2011

@Erin - This is a group called "Moms Who Need to Vent." As such it will contain rants because that is what is supposed to be here. If you don't want to read such rants then avoid this group.

IRL I have a friend who has a friend with a similar thing going on, involving drug use and abortion by choice (plus, my friend's friend already has one child, cared for by her grandmother, who was born addicted to drugs) and so I really feel for Katherine. When you see a friend making choices that are destructive sometimes you do need to go off somewhere and scream. That is what this group is for. My friend is able to come to a physical group (our life group through our church) and vent her feelings, but Katherine may not have such a luxury.

None of us know who this poor woman is (or was) but we know Katherine and we know she is in pain.

Would it be better if she screamed at her friend, thus adding to her friend's pain? No, it would not. Sometimes in order to give someone emotional support you do have to go off and rant so that you can come back and help that person without ranting at them.

Erin - posted on 10/20/2011

My biggest issue is that you made your friend out to be some heartless woman because she chose to have an abortion instead of going through the pregnancy. Her choices were hers alone and instead of supporting her, you came on here and ranted about how she's a horrible person. *shrug* You can't expect to post a rant online and not have someone disagree with you.

Erin - posted on 10/20/2011

Youre right, you do have the right. However, it's pretty crude of you to be talking about a friend and judging her behind her back. Put yourself in her shoes before you post a rant.

You're only mad at me because I called you out on it. I'm sorry that she died, but perhaps you should be honouring her memory rather than ranting about what she did. You had no right to judge her for doing what she thought was best for HER.

No real friend would come online and do what you have done.

If you can't handle someone calling you out on your behaviour, then perhaps you should get off the internet and close your group down.

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

Thanks Donna.

Georgia - posted on 10/20/2011

Wow, I hope you're right. I would think if she OD'd on pills, then she probably was out of it while her body freaked out.



Bring the group down... like this was a really upbeat subject to begin with? :-) Venting can be for sad things too, not just angry rants.



Meh, many of us are gluttons for punishment. We try to help people we know are beyond help. There's no reason for someone to be punished about a personality flaw that is actually an admirable quality.



So, I don't know who was jumping on you about caring, but I'd rather be someone like you who cares than someone who could just sit back and watch another person kill herself.

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

And I KNEW I was glutton for punishment starting this thread. It's not like I didn't know.

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

Ugh, sorry guys. Didn't mean to bring the group down.

Katherine - posted on 10/20/2011

I just wish I would have known that she was in such a bad way. I feel horrible because of the way she went out.

She had a heart attack 5 strokes and a bunch of seizures. Not a peaceful way to go. I just pray she had taken enough pills not to feel any of that.

Georgia - posted on 10/20/2011

Oh Katherine.... {{{{{hugs}}}}} I'm so sorry about your friend. She was in a bad way back then and it obviously didn't get better for her. On a positive note, at least she's not hurting now. Small consolation, I know, but maybe quiet comfort.

Katherine - posted on 10/19/2011

Thanks Michelle.

Michelle - posted on 10/19/2011

I know this is an older post but I'm sorry about your friend and the loss of her babies. I'm pro life too. You have very right to vent about it (especially in this community). How sad to lose two precious lives like that (3 counting your friend if I read that comment correctly further down).