Delicate situation/warning

Katherine - posted on 05/20/2011 ( 165 moms have responded )

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Ok so I just found out my friend is pregnant with twins. She uses pills and was worried about the effects on them She's only 8 weeks along. Well yesterday she had an abortion. I'm so upset. It wasn't one life but two. I know it's her body, but I am pro-life and I just it's just sooo wrong to me :(
And sad. She's 30 so it's not like she couldn't provide for them She just didn't want to deal with twins.

I know I'm glutton for punishment but frankly I don't care :P

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Jane - posted on 10/19/2011

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I am very sorry to hear about your friend. She was on a downward track for sure.

[deleted account]

I didn't re-read the whole thing, but from what I remember of this thread, you were listening to her and trying to be there for her even though you vehemently disagreed with her decision.....more than I could have done. In my book, that is a wonderful friend.

Who says you don't have a right to rant? Sometimes that's the best medicine....I love having this group for just that. We can rant and rave without hurting anyone in real life...it's perfect.

Katherine - posted on 10/19/2011

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I didn't even realize this thread had blown up. I better not read the other comments....

Katherine - posted on 10/19/2011

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She said it was none of my business to rant about her, and that if I was a real "friend" I wouldn't do so.
But thanks Kelly.
That just made me furious!

[deleted account]

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend, Katherine. I don't know what Erin said. I know how words on here can hurt sometimes and I'm sorry that someone hurt you while you are going through something like this.

Katherine - posted on 10/19/2011

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She died, she ended up OD'ing. And Erin, this is a venting community. I needed to get that out. I was upset about it at the time. How dare you actually. This is MY community and if I WANT to RANT I have every right to do so.

[deleted account]

Tracey, thanks for that. I don't know what the rules are here regarding terminations. I just know you can get them, although from what I understand it's pretty hard to get one in QLD. I'm curious about it now and the next time I'm at our GP I'm going to ask. She loves it when I come out with off the wall questions! lol

It doesn't surprise me that the cost would be similar to Canada. Our Medicare system seems to be in line with theirs in many ways. Go Commonwealth countries!! :-) I love Socialism. lol

I do agree with Nicole's statement of "knowledge is power". It's true for all aspects of life.

In my mind, if a child is old enough to ask the question, (s)he is old enough to get an honest answer. Nothing should be taboo. I remember having talks with my "little sister" when she came out to visit me from LA. She was 12 at the time and came unaccompanied. She was telling me that A LOT of the other 12-13 year old girls in her school were performing oral sex in the library and she wanted to know why. (given this information, I think the statistics on teen sex are probably wrong if they are only counting vaginal intercourse as sex, as so many teens think) So, she found out all about oral sex, as in how to do it, that it IS actually a sexual act, why some women do it, what the guy gets out of it, what the woman gets out of it and what can go wrong... everything. I thoroughly grossed her out with just facts! We talked often, about all sorts of things, and she knows that 1) what she talks to me about stays with me and 2) I'll tell her the uncensored truth about anything she wants to know. She remained a virgin for several more years (until she was about 18), but before she had sex for the first time she talked to her mother and got on the pill. While she has a great relationship with her mother, there are certain things she just doesn't feel comfortable about discussing. Mostly stuff that she knows her mother would see as perverted in some way. This young girl could have been a statistic very easily, but because she knew the truth about everything she could make an informed decision. This is exactly how I'll be with my boys, because I'll do everything in my power to keep them from becoming a statistic and hindering their chances to achieve their dreams.

Mind you, Mr. 4 is only asking about why I have hair on my legs and not my arms like daddy... so I think I'm safe for another few months. lol And he sees us naked quite often, so he knows we are physically different. He's already pointed out that my "boobs are WAAAAYYYY bigger than daddy's".

Barb - posted on 05/30/2011

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Donna, i totally agree, thank goodness they are fighting it in court, which seems to be the new place for recourse between elections. I'm supporting their efforts.

It kills me the amount of money they are shelling out for unplanned pregnancies and prenatal care. And that is going to rise far more than they would have paid out to PP for birth control. It's just insane... and that's the logical view point.. the emotional is of course all the women going without healthcare because they make too much to qualify for medicaid but not enough for a private practice Dr.

And seriously Nicole, you want to judge that other woman? You want to abolish all responsibility by saying it wasn't your decision, but the more you type the more that sounds like bullshit. They even showed you pictures, a whole photo album, and you were still able to go through it and not say "hell no"?

I really don't care, it's no skin of my nose whatever you did or do.. But don't sit there all sanctimoniously judging someone when you can't even own your own choice.

I would think someone who has been through it would have a little more empathy.

Sneaky - posted on 05/30/2011

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Abortion in Australia is covered by medicare (e.g. free or with a small 'gap' fee) BUT they are coded as D&C procedures so you can not 'trust' stats on abortions in Australia - you can not tell which D&C's are abortions or post miscarriage procedures, etc. At least, that's the way it was five years ago.

Nicole - posted on 05/29/2011

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that is actually very true. high school health class 5 years ago the teacher taught us that the netherlands have a high teen sex rate but the lowest teen pregnancy rate.

however the US has a low teen sex rate but one of the Highest teen pregnancy rates! now tell me that isnt messed up???

to amny people do not want to openly come out and teach their child sex education. knowledge is power and if you can bring your self to teach your child it could be your kid one day saying "momma im pregnant im having an abortion." =(

[deleted account]

Rachel, I'm sorry for you and your friend. I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision for her to make. While it was a late term abortion, it sounds like there was something seriously wrong with the babies. At least she has an empathetic friend in you and you can prove her some comfort at what must be a difficult time. You can console each other.

I am not fond of late term abortions, but I am pro-choice and if she felt that it would be too much of a burden (not just on her, but also her partner) and if the quality of life for those babies would have been severely compromised. You're right, it probably was the best decision.

Having a termination isn't a light decision to make, even if it's a first trimester one. It takes guts to know what would be best for your situation and act on it. Especially given all the negativity expressed by those who claim it's "murder" and so on.

Barb, that is just criminal what they have done to PP in your state! Planned Parenthood is so much more than an abortion clinic. I believe they have just compromised the health of the women in that state by making that move. When I was in my late teens/early 20s, I used to go to PP for routine medical exams as well as birth control. I knew many, many college students who went to the local PP clinic for exactly that reason. It's hard for a young girl to go see her parents' doctor for a pap smear or to ask about birth control, so they use PP as a safe haven to be able to take care of their health. I'm so sad they've lost funding and I'm sure Margaret Sanger would be turning in her grave.

Vicki, terminations are free in Canada? Hmm, I wonder if they are here too. I bet they are.

Someone asked about the abortion rate possibly being tied to the cost of the procedure. It isn't. What it is tied to is the level of education and cost of obtaining contraception. The Netherlands has a low abortion rate. I believe it's due to the fact that they have a comprehensive sex education program as well as readily available contraception. If you raise the level of education alone, it's entirely possible to lower the rate of termination. Couple it with affordable contraception, and it's even lower.

Nicole - posted on 05/29/2011

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i am sorry twenty weeks is far. and the doctor should be shot for having no sense of morality. =( i had mine at 8-9 weeks. no this does not make mine any better cause i still commited the same act but mine was no where near being viable outside the womb. that i feel is murder. at that point if you read the real facts about an abortion they have to break the baby's skull and dialate the mother forcably and can no longer do a Dn c procedure and it gets more and more unhumane as time goes on.

the "specialist" who eval'd me showed me pictured of aborted fetus's from all stages and i was highly disturbed. they actually make a photo book out of the procedures. they even asked me if i would like to see the fetus after it was all said and done... personally i think they show the book to change minds. and i think the clinic made it graphic and offered me to see my baby to drive the point to not do it again.

she also told me at 9 weeks or so the baby is only as strong as a wet paper towel. and that yes even a small suction that they use does tear the baby to shreds. and this came from the clinic i went to. i can tell you i will never step foot in another place like that again.

Jaime - posted on 05/29/2011

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I'd like to believe that in the moments where we have to make life-altering decisions for ourselves, we are capable (even in small measurement) of knowing intrinsically what is best for us. I am pro-choice 100%, but that doesn't mean that I can't empathize with the grief that someone feels over the decision to abort a child. It's not an easy decision to begin with, but perhaps in weighing the pros and cons of the situation, your friend felt that it was best to terminate. She will have a tough road ahead I'm sure, coming to terms with her choice, but she is no more guilty of destroying innocent life, than we are of insisting that the babies' lives take precedence over the mental, and emotional capacity of an unprepared woman.

Barb - posted on 05/29/2011

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I hope so too Katherine and i'm sorry you had to go through this.. Sometimes our friends don't know what they do to us.

Katherine - posted on 05/29/2011

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Abortion is so emotional. And I thank you all for the advice and sharing your stories. It makes it a little easier for me to swallow.
I'm still very sad for her. I know she is. I hope she can get some grief counseling or something to make it through this hard time.

Rachel - posted on 05/28/2011

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Well I was going to come on here and tell the lady that origionally posted this that i can completly simpathize with what she is going through with her friend having an abortion with twins i just found out thursday that my friend who was 20 weeks pregnant had an abortion. I didnt find out till after the fact and i was very upset crying for about 4-5 hrs until i realized maybe those poor little lives are better off not being here now hear me out i am totally pro life but would feel bad for a child that was not taken care of properly because the parent was not ready to be a parent. From what i heard the twins would have had some fort of disability but i do not know for sure. i do know she was not ready to be a mother. I have a very tiny 1 year old who was in and out of the hospital all winter and a sick nephew as well and every time she saw me or my sister with one of the babies she was always very upset and i dont think she could have gone through even part of what we go through so she would not be able to handle 2 disabled children. so maybe my poor little god babies are better off. if i was in a position financially i would have taken them in a heart beat. I am still very upset that they are dead that i will never see their beautiful faces or hear their little hearts beat and look into their eyes but i know that they are ok now. I am not a very godly person but i think there is a special place for unborn babies whether they are miscarried or aborted they are still unborn. Now i probably got off topic but it seems many other people did too. I just want the lady who wrote this to know that there are people out there that sympathise with her. we can not make our friends decisions for them unfortunately but if we are their friend we will put our feelings aside and try to understand why they did what they did. I am still working on that part. sitting here crying thinking about the 2 tiny babied that i will never get to hold who had their hearts stop because some one was not ready for them.

Barb - posted on 05/28/2011

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I totally agree with you. I think socioeconomic and educational (or lack thereof) statuses are extremely large contributing factors in abortion rates.



Thank goodness Doug is fixed, so i haven't had to deal with birth control issues for the last 17 years, but i can only imagine how difficult it could be.



I came across this article in looking for the abortion stats that makes some very good points i'll highlight.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/ib_0599.h...



"Abortion is one of the most divisive and emotional issues facing U.S. policymakers today. This should not be surprising, given that individuals' attitudes about abortion are shaped by their convictions regarding religion, morality, human rights, public health and the status of women in society."



"Many of these policy debates are driven by the motivation to reduce abortion rates, and among some policymakers, the answer is to make abortion difficult to obtain or even illegal. Yet an examination of statistical trends reveals that the legal status of abortion in a country is not strongly correlated with the rate at which it occurs. Indeed, in many countries where the procedure is illegal, women obtain abortions at very high rates. Similarly, in some countries where abortion is legal and very widely accessible, abortion rates are low. "



"Throughout this century, as modernization, urbanization and women's levels of education and participation in the labor force have grown, small families have increasingly become the norm worldwide. "



It's really informational and has some good graphs in it too.





I also love how fucking inspirational you are. Yeah, we all have bad days, but you are right, you can have depression and still accomplish things and still inspire others and help others.



I do agree the case is very rare that women use abortions as a form of birth control, as i can't imagine that is a highly sought after procedure. But in the case where a woman does, it would be interesting to hear the why. Especially when there are some great forms of birth control out there that you don't even have to remember to take every day that would be less expensive than an abortion.



Oh, and i live in the great state of Indiana where asshole Mike Pence just got Gov Daniels to sign into law cutting all state medicaid funding for Planned Parenthood. Medicaid did NOT pay for abortions. But it DID pay for prenatal care, birth control, Ob/Gyn appts, gyno tests, etc. Their theory was if any state money goes into Planned Parenthood, that frees up money to be used on abortions. Which is ridiculous because PP isn't losing any money on a perfectly legal procedure. Now women who were relying on medicaid to pay for their exams and birth control need to find a way to pay for it themselves. Thus, the poverty factor.



I'd have to look into it, but i bet medicaid would pay for a man's vasectomy. Totally reversible and non evasive surgery.



Edited to change the tense and make more of a point.

[deleted account]

well since everything you say (HERE at least) is perfect...what are your thoughts on my thoughts above? I could be talking through my ass and need to hear your opinion so I can decide if my ass if full of shit (or muffin) or I'm right :)

and nicole I'm sorry you had such a shitty time. I can get what stephanie means about how nobody can force us to have an abortion but I can also get how when in certain situations there is a hell of a lot of pressure to do so.

Barb - posted on 05/28/2011

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And Vicki, why, when i read your post agreeing with me, did i hear the song "loverboy"?

Barb - posted on 05/28/2011

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Nicole, take a breath. Reread what Stephanie said and pretend it was to someone else. Perhaps deflection is the only way you can deal with it.



When i told my son's father i was pregnant that was his first idea, to take me to the clinic for an abortion. I said, "fuck you selfish bastard, i'm not getting an abortion" And that would have been my response to the nurses, dr's and anyone else who touched me. But that is me. I was living with him in his father's house with my nearest back up relative 500 miles away with no car, no job, and no money.

But then again, that's me.



What Stephanie is saying is that you didn't do anything wrong. Be okay with the decision, don't beat yourself up over it. It's okay.



Vicki is in Canada where they have much different health care than they do here in the states. (yes, i'm assuming you are in the U.S. of A)



And to the question about abortion rates.. the U.S. has higher abortion rates than Canada. http://micpohling.wordpress.com/2007/11/...





Edited to change out the link. the other one was old data from the 90's But still showed Canadian abortion rate at 20% and the U.S. abortion rate at 30%

[deleted account]

stephanie...my thoughts. its cheaper to have an abortion than to have a child. condoms and other forms of birth control are not 100 % effective. no clue as to which country has higher abortion rates. doesn't medicaid cover abortions? I think it does but again, not sure. poverty is often a cycle. people living in poverty tend to have less support to get out of it and less experience in advocating on getting those supports. when women are worrying about paying bills, childcare, food for their families or themselves if no families birth control can fall to the wayside. not everyone has access to free condoms (there isn't one on every block and if you can't pay for bus fare you can't get it).

Nicole - posted on 05/28/2011

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no abortions are not free 1000 dollars used to get mine done and was guilt tripped that i was "wasting " his money if i didnt get it done too. ughh...( seriously offended)

Nicole - posted on 05/28/2011

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if you must know yes he dragged me there he dragged me to the appointments and i was scared . and frankly my father and family would have done the same thing. i was reliant on my family for a home at the time. the lady at the clinic told me i could leave up untill i was injected wiith the pain meds and i wanted to leave. he blocked the door and wouldnt let me leave. made all these false promises and told me to stay.

and you should keep your mouth shut before you know the entire situation cause if you want to just know how F'd up my family is and why i thank god every day i was able to move out .

i got pregnant 4 months after turning 21 with my SO we had only lived together for 3 months and my father was going to march me down to the clicc to have an abortion. because i was so against it from my first abortion he found a family behind my back to take the baby tried seting up the meeting and trick me into metting them where then i would be forced to talk about giving my child away. when they found out my daughter had albinism it only got worse my father told me i needed to sign over my rights to him so she can be on his medical. and would relentlessly hound me about how i would be a bad mom and being too young. my entire side of the family was like this cause they all had their children in their 30s and a 21 year old only wants to drink and party. they thought there was no way i could be more mature then my drinking and driving party girl sister that was 23 years old. and that my SO would leave me cause we were not together that long.

so either way cause i was living at home i would have been forced to abort that first child.

i had to move out because i got pregnant. my SO knew this so he took me in and we have not looked back. and because we recieve hell form my family on a daily babsis for the last year we have cut them out and have been well off ever since. you would stumble if you had to walk in my shoes and either way you look at that statement was meant to judge telling me to own up to it??? i have admitted to my faults. and every day there is not a day that goes by with the guilt i have you do not need to rub it it by telling me to own up to it. i realize now that with the help i found with this second child that if i would have known about cornorstone for women i would have found better options.

[deleted account]

She just said that it was $875 at 5 weeks and it depends on how many weeks you are. It can go up to a few thousand.

[deleted account]

Wow really??? That's amazing. I wonder if the abortion rate is higher there since it's free? I think they cost a few thousand here. Gonna call my bff and ask...

[deleted account]

stephanie want to give some thought to answer and not jsut randomly type some crap...babies waking. (abortions here are free).

[deleted account]

Honest question: How could poverty be a reason for repeated abortion? Aren't abortions fairly costly? And birth control is free from family planning, all different types. Medicaid pays for birth control as well as tubal ligations. Condoms are free at Planned Parenthood, no questions asked. You just walk in and get them. In this day and age I don't see how a woman could be having repeated abortions due to lack of education. When my bff had an abortion....that's right, my bff and she is STILL my bff...she was counceled before hand so she knew exactly what was happening. I dont see how poverty and lack of education could be an excuse. After one time your should be painfully aware of the circumstances of unprotected sex. There shouldn't be a 2nd or 3rd time.

[deleted account]

aw shucks barb thanks (I'm standing in a pile of dirt with bball cap on bkwrds, head hung down and shuffling feet).

I like donna I believe said (was it here) in being open about situations not because it is my job to educate anyone but because well...I am a pretty open person as you know and comfortable with the decisions in my life and come to terms with many others in my life. if my openess touches one person than I'm happy. at least that was the way I have always been about my depression. you CAN work in childcare and have depression and be good at your job. you CAN have made the choice to have an abortion and still care about life. we need to take care of ourselves first. that helps us take care of others. and yeah, we have a world out there that needs caring for.

katherine I agree with barb (again). glad you had here to vent it. that is taking care of yourself first which can enable you to care for your friend second. (does that make sense?)

also agree barb (omg barb do you ahve new stalker?) re: the world out there and we don't care for the people already in existence. sad. our western society of great wealth is so preoccupied with our western society and great wealth!

I will always stand my ground no matter what people say. women do not use abortion as birth control. if women tend to have repeated abortions there is another thing going on there (cycle of lack of education maybe, cycle of poverty tied in perhaps). if a woman does have repeated abortions does she not deserve support in order to help her make better choices in future (if the repeated abortions are due to lack of brith control anyway,...who really knows why she is having them).

bleeding heart leftie? yes I am. want my children raised with empathy and seeing it not jsut from my home but the world out there.

that said, that also includes the fact that I want my children to witness differing opinions to help them be open minded. I don't want them witnessing closed minded negative judgemental opinions. wel...no, I guess I do. when they are older. will help them recognize the need to be more compassionate.

Barb - posted on 05/28/2011

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Vicki, i want to thank you for coming out and being so brave to post something so personal.

This point here really hammered it home: "so a life at conception a life in existence. no difference?"

With 7 billion people on the planet, hundreds of people dying each day from smoking, hundreds of thousands people murdered each year, thousands killed in wars, genocide.

Why do we care more for the unborn and the choice someone has to make than we do the people we have grown to not only love but like?

Katherine, you are a good friend and i'm glad you had here to vent instead of turning away from someone who so obviously needs you.

Sneaky - posted on 05/27/2011

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@ Donna, thanks for replying! I did get the impression you might have been more interest in beer than me, lol!
True, I did not consider that perhaps the pill use and staying with an abusive boyfriend might be symptoms of depression. It is probably a symptom of my PND that my first knee-jerk reaction would be to drop her as a friend, because I don't need more sadness in my life.

@ Nicole, I don't know you but just from you saying that you have had nightmares post abortion it makes me wonder if you might have Post-Abortion Syndrome (it is a form of post traumatic stress disorder):
http://www.pregnancyclinic.org/abortion/...
I hope that you start to feel better about your decision soon - it is obvious that you feel you made the right decision, so Stephanie is right - own it :o)You don't have to feel bad about your decision.

@ Katherine; I just wanted to suggest that you keep a look out for PAS symptoms in your friend, and let her know that it is a possibility too.

[deleted account]

Nicole- How could anyone FORCE you to have an abortion? Did he hold a gun to your head? How could this guy's mother FORCE him to FORCE you? I'm not trying to be rude but come on, OWN IT. Don't act like it was someone else's fault. You made the choice. You didn't have to. I'm not judging what you did but the fact that you're putting it off on someone else when it was YOUR body, YOUR appointment, YOUR baby. Take accountability for yourself.

Katherine - posted on 05/27/2011

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I'm glad I started this thread because you all have great stories to tell and it puts it into perspective for me.

[deleted account]

omg my 30 yr old body...duh...meant 39 (now almost 42). not really relevant to other posts (sorry guys) but had to clear that up lest I be called out by friends as..LIAR :)

Nicole - posted on 05/27/2011

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as some one that has had an abortion. i can understand that. a child will bind them to you for 18 years. in a way i feel blessed that my ex's mother forced him to force me to have it done. cause that jack Azz can go rot with how many ever women he has cheated with and caught who knows what. i thank God that i didnt get the STDs he did. if i had the baby would have gotten them too. in a way i feel the baby was saved from him. he was terrible and i would have been left alone at 18 to deal with it myself.

since the abortion i have become pro life with the exception of life threatening situations. if you are going to possibly lose your self and the baby i believe to terminate get well and try again. every child needs their mommy=).

in my situation it was horrible and when i finally had my child the nightmares wouldn't stop. all i could dream about was the child i was forced to kill. some people feel like murders. who knows maybe she will feel the same down the road. there are always better options like adopting im pretty sure some one would have love to have beautiful baby twins =)

being on pills 8 weeks wont harm them too much if she could quit or get a pill switch. i didnt know i was pregnant till 16 weeks. before that i was going out to eat and drinking a few mixed drinks at dinner for our date nights.

[deleted account]

donna that's funny. I've always had an issue with the terms pro-choice and pro-life. I'm pro-choice (obviously) and for that reason think I am pro-life. never thought of anti-choice. like that one. lables labels labels.

the donor egg thing yeah...I chose a young donor. made my 30 yr old (at the time) body 24 again!

[deleted account]

@Tracey, I wasn't ignoring you... promise!

I'm glad to hear that you wouldn't drop me like a hot potato if something like that were to arise. However, I don't see how my hypothetical is much different from Katherine's friend's situation. She's majorly depressed, accidentally got preggo and terminated. Same thing, except you know a bit more about me than this stranger. I do get the extra info on the drama surrounding her is a contributing factor to your reaction, but I see those other bits as symptoms of her depression. She's self medicating and she's found someone who's going to treat her as badly as she thinks of herself. She really wasn't in a position to be able to take care of ONE baby, let alone two.



Mind you, I've dropped toxic friends too.Hell, I've actually dropped toxic family members (my father when he was alive)! Life is too short to be dragged down by people who sap everything out of you. But it is possible to be a friend to someone like this without it affecting you, as long as you have a bit of perspective and detachment, and don't let their crap stick to you. (Shit, I'm talking like a Psych already! lol)

[deleted account]

"I guess a girl's gotta do what a girl's gotta do." - Says it all.

Katherine, I don't think you're a bad friend either. Far from it. If your friend knew you were a pro-lifer (which I normally call "anti-choice"), your reaction wouldn't have been a surprise to her. And your saying two words aren't like harping on her about it. Extending your hand in friendship in the aftermath of everything is what a good friend does. Also, being able to see her situation and actually "cross the aisle" into saying that it was probably a good idea just goes to show that you have a great deal of empathy and care for her. Just don't get too caught up in the drama, for your own safety and health. :-)

Vicki, ♥ ♥ ♥

You know, I never knew about donating eggs until I started going to see my OB when I was pregnant with my first. He specialises in fertility issues (as well as catching babies) and had a poster in his waiting room calling for egg donation. I think I freaked him out a little when I walked in, introduced myself and started asking about donating eggs when he knew I coming to him because I was up the duff. lol I was seriously considering donating some of my eggs (after I had the baby, of course), but he said I was too old. :-( Apparently they don't want to use eggs that are too close to their expiration date.

[deleted account]

and differing thoughts aside from abortion in general katherine I am sorry you feel this sadness. but that tells me you are in fact her friend. so that makes me happy :)

Katherine - posted on 05/24/2011

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No, no other kids. Oh God I would shoot myself. She doesn't even know about CoM. I'm not judging. Just incredibly sad :(

Oh you just said that Vicki. "Judge not lest ye be judged."



Right on.

[deleted account]

who writes the book on who deserves it and who doesn't? for whom a 'real resason' exists and for whom it doesn't. many, christian rights out there read your bible. doens't it say something about not judging? but I guess now that I've mentioned the bible the quotes will come flying. and people can twist any biblical quote to say what they want it to say. just take a look at wars. and yes, wars in states as well. presidents are masters of twisting the bible to suit their needs. how is killing in a war for what we really know to be financial gain any better? and if I start hearing flag waving about my president is great I will vomit cause amer presidents have to have their fingers in every pie for control and finacial gains and the media does such a good spin on it we get hooped into buying it. so a life at conception a life in existence. no difference?

why don't we get real and just go back to the coat hanger days cause that really values life. and hey...according to bible may be life...according to science it isn't.

you believe what you believe, I'll beleive what I believe. I won't judge you unless you attack others and would hope for same respect.

Brie - posted on 05/24/2011

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I'm sorry but I come from a family as well as myself where it is very hard to become pregnant and when you do you have just as much risk of losing the child as you do having it.. With that being said I honestly cannot show remorse or sympathize with anyone willing to get an abortion for no real reason... would like to look into adopting but according to the things we have looked at we have just under the required income for them to allow us to adopt... So when someone is talking about abortion it is very upsetting to me... it really hits home.. I read in an earlier post how pro-lifers only care about the life and not the feelings of the woman or what not well yeah someone has to care about the life because honestly please tell me how the woman does if she is wanting to end it.. there is adoption and yeah the system may suck but at least give the child an opportunity to make a life...

[deleted account]

I was all for abortion (when needed) until I was told I couldn't have children and then something just changed for me - I understand that sometimes it is necessary even if I hate the idea but I also know myself well enough to know that I would really struggle to be supportive of a friend who had an abortion (unless it was in a case of maternal life or abortion) because of how I feel about it, which is why my friends know that I am not the person to come to if they were in that situation, and tbh I don't think they would anyway not with how hard it was on us emotionally when we were trying to conceive. I try not to judge women whom I don't know on their actions, especially actions that they took in the past - our history makes us who we are afterall, but on this issue I find it incredibly difficult.

[deleted account]

hey does she have other kids? lets just hope she never gets on here! you'll hvae to delete this thread.

[deleted account]

katherine I don't think you are a bad friend either. when I had the abortion it killed my parents and really messed my mom up. in retropsect she has told me it was the best thing I could have done. abortion is emotional. not jsut for the woman going through it but for those that love and care about the woman as well.

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