Measles outbreak in NSW

Sneaky - posted on 03/31/2011 ( 81 moms have responded )

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Yes, I was just informed by my kids pre-school/childcare that the NSW health department have informed them that there is an outbreak of measles in NSW right now.. . . . . . THAT"S JUST FRIGGING GREAT. MY 10 MONTH OLD IS NOT VACCINATED YET!

Damn. Good thing she has a doctors appointment on Monday, I'll have to see if she can get vaccinated a month early :o(.

To add to my joy, I now also have to ring my mother and find out if I either had measles or got the MMR as a kid. **sigh**.

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Amber - posted on 04/05/2011

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Oh Ally...where does one even start with you?

My SO is a NP and just completed the in class portion of med school, he's part way through his clinicals now.

We researched, then researched some more, then researched just a bit more because I wanted to be sure about vaccinations. He was a little annoyed with me because I was re-researching everything that he had already told me. So, I looked through his medical books as well as diving into information on the web.

We chose to vaccinate. But of course that was an uninformed decision.

"My child simply does not have the same risk factors as a child whose parents pass them around to anyone,take them out to crowded places stick them in daycare and throw them a bottle of formula. "

Really? Do you judge much?
You have no idea what the mothers in this forum do with their children. You have no idea who breast feeds, is a SAHM, works outside the home, or lets any other person care for their child.

Vaccinating your child doesn't mean that you didn't breast feed to pass on natural defenses. It doesn't mean that you "pass your child around to anyone", or that you pass your child around at all!

You're obviously the one who needs a dose of reality if these are the things that you connect with mothers who choose to vaccinate.

I'm sorry that I don't intend for my child to live in a bubble for the rest of his life. I'm also sorry that I don't have the desire to have to sanitize my hands every time I want to reach out and hug him. I want my child to have a real life.

If you wanted to give us a "dose of reality" you might have cited some research or gave us some information that proved that vaccination is harmful or that not vaccinating is helpful. Coming and telling us that you had to isolate your child and that deadly childhood diseases are not dangerous and having them gives lifelong immunity is not gaining any support for your argument. It is only making your argument that much weaker.

And you might also have responded in a separate thread rather than high jacking somebody else's rant.

Charlie - posted on 04/05/2011

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ALLY.

For someone so "informed " your very ignorant to many "facts" you pointed out in your post .

Vaccination is as much about the community as it is about your own child .

vaccinating parents for the most part DO research the pros and cons .

Breastfeeding only lowers the risk of infection .

doctors DO tell you it ( chicken pox ) is a live vaccine .

For some life isnt as simple as locking away your child from the community until YOU deem it ok to venture out .

Catching chicken pox DOES NOT mean she has a life long immunity .

Measles is HIGHLY contaigious and deadly more power to you and your beliefs if the increasing deaths of babies over the years in Australia due to the decline of vaccinations doesnt bother you , scare tactics ? yeah ....thats why they died to ruffle the anti vaxers feathers *eye roll*

Charlie - posted on 04/06/2011

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"I simply choose not to vaccinate my child with live visus vaccines for illnesses that are documented to be rare and usually mild."



Rare?..ha...haha....

Mild ? About 14,000 people are hospitalized because of chicken pox and approximately 100 people die of chickenpox every year in the US alone not to mention seziures , liver failure shock , sepsis , delerium ect

.



Did your research huh ?

Kate CP - posted on 04/06/2011

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"...It is also not a judgement to say that children with a stay at home mom who breastfeeds is at a smaller risk for contracting illnesses than a young infant surrounded by many caregivers and other children....we all have different germs so therefore the more we are exposed the higher the risk..."

That's not entirely true. I have a 10 week old son. I'm a stay at home mom. I breastfeed exclusively. My son is at high risk for infection because his five year old sister is school-aged and can bring home any number of diseases. As is his father who works outside the home and could also bring home any number of diseases. Unless you live in a bubble you there is a chance you will run into one of the diseases we vaccinate against. And if one of your family members routinely goes out into the big scary world and interacts with other people they could be bringing home infectious disease.

Ally, you have a very odd stance in this debate. On the one hand you sound VERY frickin' judgmental about those of us who vaccinate. But then you go and sputter off that hey, you vaccinate for some diseases, too! It's like you're trying to be super-mommy and cover all your bases by hating vaccines and screaming how ill-informed we all are by vaccinating...but when we point out the flaws in your argument you come back with "Oh yea? I did vaccinate for some diseases, so there!" (Obviously I'm paraphrasing and being a little sarcastic here, so don't get your knickers in a twist).

If you're going to be all high-and-mighty and judgmental and rude about a stance PICK A FUCKING SIDE AND STICK WITH IT.

Amber - posted on 04/06/2011

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Further reading from the same website that you cited gives you this exact quote:

"Chickenpox in children is usually not serious. Why not let children get the disease?
It is not possible to predict who will have a mild case of chickenpox and who will have a serious or even deadly case of disease. Now that there is a safe and effective vaccine, it is not worth taking this chance."

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[deleted account]

Monkey pee? She must have done her research via those "Did you know" chain emails.

Whatever vaccine is available, I make sure my son gets it and I get it.

[deleted account]

Julianne, I'm so sorry to hear that. You're in a terrible position and you have my utmost sympathy. Naturally, I exclude you from my rant on anti-vaxers. You don't have a choice and that's the worst. My thoughts are with you and your child and I sincerely hope neither of you ever come in contact with any of these illnesses.

(hugs)

Sneaky - posted on 04/07/2011

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monkey pee! WOW!!!!!

I also had myself and my children injected with monkey pee :o)

Allicia - posted on 04/07/2011

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it scares me for my little one that is not old enough to be vaccinated with the MMR until next month.
we have a family member that is a non-vaxer for there kids. when i was preg with my 2nd child there was a big scare with the H1N1 and i when i got the vax. the dr told me it would take 2 weeks to be 100% so i still had to be very careful around people that where sick. Found our my niece that belongs to the family that doesnt vax had H1N1. I had my husband tell them that they couldnt come to my son's party becuase i was preg and i only got the shot a week ago and i couldnt have there sick child be around me to put me and my unborn child in danger. thank god they didnt come. they thought it was so stupid to get the shots for H1N1. they were lucky ther child ended up being ok, but so many people died from it. she said she didnt want them to get the H1N1 vax because she read it had monkey pee in it. REALLY! came on. i dont care if it had monkey pee in it or not i got it and i was happy i did. It really doesnt have monkey pee in it. i have no clue where she read that on the net from.

Pia - posted on 04/07/2011

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No Jen, you are right, the non-vaxers I've met simply don't care that they are putting others babies at risk.

Vegemite - posted on 04/07/2011

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Thank girls he recovered well. He's now a healthy 3.5yr old but up until he was 2.5 he was always sick with some sort of cold, flu or other virus and now has grommets because of the constant ear infections. Dr said that his immune system would take a while to be fully functional after being so sick.



That's awful Julianne, I would hate it if my kids couldn't be vaccinated.



Whooping cough is terrible I had it when i was 5, I don't know why I wasn't vaccinated. Have my vac's up to date now.

[deleted account]

my daughter can't be vaccinated because she had a sever reaction to the first round. It scares the shit out of me...especially because she was around a child that just recently had his vaccinations and fell ill with a fever of 103....

Sneaky - posted on 04/07/2011

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I've had two scares now - my oldest was exposed to chicken pox at the age of four months because a 'friend' just had not bothered getting her five year old vaccinated for it. This year my youngest ended up in the hospital at 24 days old with suspect whopping cough ;o( It's so hard to protect them when they are too young for the vaccines!! Why can't people understand that?

[deleted account]

Christine, I'm very sorry to hear that. Poor poor baby. :-((

My heart utterly breaks when I hear/read things like this. I sit in my chair in utter awe and dismay that our advanced society is choosing to go backwards to when these diseases ran rampant. Only we're doing it without realizing just how justifiably feared were these diseases. Villages and towns were wiped out from measles. Children are born with defects from rubella. My ex-husband's grandmother lost her daughter to whooping cough. It nearly took the life of my mother and put me out of work for months. This is why I encourage people to get their boosters. That guy who came up with the bogus autism study has blood on his hands in my never humble opinion. He lied in order to make money (it was discovered his intention was to discredit normal vaccines in favor of HIS OWN - for sale of course.)

Vaccines save lives, end of story. Yes, I get riled up by the topic. I can't help it. Catching whooping cough opened my eyes far more than anything else. I will never remember my former grandmother in law going into hysterics upon hearing I had it. All she could see was her little daughter struggling to breathe and not having the means to help her. She died. I was lucky.

[deleted account]

Ally said, "I simply choose not to vaccinate my child with live visus vaccines for illnesses that are documented to be rare and usually mild. I feel i would be able to care for them if they did get sick but if they were harmed by a vaccine that i chose to give them i would have a harder time with that than if they got a disease bc of something i didn't do."

Wow, I'm not even sure how to answer this load of idiocy. Measles is not a mild disease unless of course you count potential blindness and agonizing pain as mild. The risks of vaccines are far less nasty than measles but I'm sure you disagree due to some anti-vax book out there.

I think and make no apologies for it that any mother who thinks these diseases are ok and mild enough to let their children go unprotected are very poor mothers indeed.

And I again liken it to keeping your child on your lap in a car. Many mothers did it and only a few babies died and we all know that those car seats have caused strangulation death and are just a way of the Big Bib industry to make us spend money on unnecessary items.

Sneaky - posted on 04/07/2011

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Oh Christine! I'm so sorry, that must have been so scary :o( I hope bub is better now.

Vegemite - posted on 04/07/2011

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So I suppose that's why my breast fed 9month old, only child of a stay at home mum who took all precautions even to the point of lining shopping trollies, using hand sanatiser and not letting anyone touch my child caught measles. hmmm I guess vac's just aren't necessary.

Sneaky - posted on 04/07/2011

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That's because you are a kind and caring person! Unlike others I will not name . . .

Amber - posted on 04/07/2011

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That makes me feel better, I was really feeling guilty. And you're welcome.

Amber - posted on 04/07/2011

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That makes me feel better, I was really feeling guilty. And you're welcome.

Sneaky - posted on 04/07/2011

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Amber, none of that was directed at you - I actually forgot to add to my earlier post that I think you are a STAR! You have been way more even tempered and based in reality than I am capable of being on this issue. Thank you.

Jodi - posted on 04/06/2011

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Ah, I see Ally has made it to this group to insult another entire group of women.....apparently she can't comprehend the difference between having an opinion and being so utterly superior in her view that we evidently need a dose of *her* reality in lieu of our lack of knowledge and research :/

Amber - posted on 04/06/2011

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I wasn't trying to not play nice :) But reading my post, I can see where it can be not nice. In my mind it wasn't mean, it was just refuting the argument.

And I think part of the chicken pox topic is my fault, that is the only cited resource that she posted from the internet. So, that's the one I had access to. And when I realized how misrepresented it was, I thought that it should probably be pointed out. That took a lot of space on the thread....so I decided to stop because my point was already made :)

I'm sorry if I added to your hurt feelings, Tracey. I was just really upset with her tone, especially when added to the incorrect information and improper research. I didn't mean to make you feel worse.

And I definitely wouldn't hold my breath if I were you. The brain just can't survive forever without oxygen ;)

Sneaky - posted on 04/06/2011

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Jackie I doubt the mod warning was aimed specifically at you :o) But see you are a nice person who cares that your posts may have been taken personally and hurt someones feelings . . . . .

Me however, nope I'm obviously not hurt or upset that I choose to share something I am upset about with women I know are typically nice and caring individuals only to be told that I do not have a proper grip on reality and basically I am a horrible mother for 'throwing' my children into pre-school and day care. Should I hold my breath waiting for an apology?

And since this topic has turned into a debate about chicken pox, when I specifically have an issue with measles, I am wondering - anyone else suspect that our
'I only vaccinate for horrible diseases' mother has actually vaccinated her own child with the MMR but can't admit that because then she knows she'll be slammed for getting of topic for NO REASON? Oh wait - that reason would be to promote her personal opinions at the expense of my feelings right?

It's good that I can see the hilarity in this, otherwise I might be crying instead :o)

Nikki - posted on 04/06/2011

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Don't worry about the vulnerable members of society that are at a significant risk because you choose not to take some vaccines. No don't worry if your actions affect another persons child or loved one. grrr

Jackie - posted on 04/06/2011

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@ Ally - I would tell you what a twit you are being by making all of those lovely assumptions but I think Krista and everyone else made all of my points for me.

Amber - posted on 04/06/2011

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"Krista it is really hard to take people like you seriously when all you do is jump on someone with nasty comments, rude and fould language and not one factual informative of helpful statement in your entire rant."

"So if words like throw and stick are offensive then how about choose to formula feed and place their child in daycare..cant believe a grown adult is aruing over word choices when they clearly mean the same thing but whatever."

Umm...How is that her using words is rude and you using words is not?

And you may have given some "evidence" in your comment, but as I have already addressed, you edited to your benefit. So, I'm pretty sure that you need to take a step back and read your posts also, because by your standards your posts are doing the exact same thing as hers.

Amber - posted on 04/06/2011

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No, I did read what you said. And I did not attack, I simply stated where I think there have been errors in thinking.



I do use hand sanitizer and wash my hands before handling infants; hand washing is an essential when expecting to live a healthy life style. I don't wash and sanitize as much now that my child is older, but still do regularly. But your post makes it seems over the top and does not indicate that it is done for infants.



At what point did I say that your child lived in a bubble? I said that I don't intend MY child to live in a bubble or to have to overly sanitize, which is exactly what I would feel was necessary if he did not have immunizations.



And in my experience, parents who I've talked to that vaccinated were informed about it. Many had long discussion with their child's doctor and read over pamphlets and articles about it. Many people have asked Chad (my SO) about it and had him give them information as well. So, you're making an overgeneralized statement about what most parents who vaccinate do, when the truth is neither of us know. I'm sure it's probably split somewhere towards the middle.



My comment did not tell you that you were wrong for not vaccinating. It told you that you had a severe attitude, gave anecdotal evidence that seemed to foster an environment of isolation, made incorrect statements about childhood diseases, and made extremely judgmental statements about parenting styles.





Oh about your citation, if you're going to cite it, use it in context!

Here is the FULL statement from the CDC website:



"About 15%–20% of people who have received one dose of chickenpox vaccine do still get chickenpox if they are exposed, but their disease is usually mild. Vaccinated persons who get chickenpox generally have fewer than 50 spots or bumps, which may resemble bug bites more than typical, fluid-filled chickenpox blisters."



So yes, they may get it, but it is nowhere near as extreme as the children who haven't been vaccinated. It then goes on to say that children who receive 2 doses of the shot are 3 times less likely to get the disease than those having only 1 dose. You can't just edit research to prove your point while excluding the full picture.



The CDC website also says that 1 in 10 unvaccinated children will have symptoms severe enough to require medical attention.



Only 25-30% of vaccinated children who get the disease will have to seek medical help. So, we'll go on the high end at 20%, 1 in 5 will still get it if the are vaccinated with one dose, 1 in 15 (about 7%) will get it if they have more than one dose. Of those children (20% and 7%) only 30% will need to see a doctor. So for the one dose only .67% will need to see a doctor, but the two dose is .23% will need a doctor. Less than 1% in both cases compared to 10 % of unvaccinated children.



Here's another fact from the same website you used:

" Many people are not aware that before a vaccine was available approximately 10,600 persons were hospitalized and 100 to 150 died as a result of chickenpox in the U.S. every year."



And that is just ONE vaccine that we're talking about here.





*Edited to correct*

It should be 6% and 2.1%. I apologize for the math error.

Krista - posted on 04/06/2011

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No, Ally, they do not mean the same thing. Words do matter. And by stating "stick" them in daycare and "throw" them a bottle of formula, you have made your bias and your sense of superiority crystal-clear. You also implied that you were simply "doing your job as a parent" by not taking your child out with you grocery shopping for 6 months. So what are you therefore saying about we mothers who did not have that luxury of being able to "stick" our babies with family members while running errands?

The reason you're receiving such a vitriolic response here is because, whether you realize it or not, you are coming across as very sanctimonious, and very judgmental, particularly towards mothers who do not have the luxury of being SAHMs.

I have absolutely no issue with parents who decide to pursue an alternate vaccination schedule, or with parents who decide to forgo vaccines against some of the milder diseases. But when you come in with the tone that you did, that's bound to raise some hackles.

I also have to say that I am very alarmed by your insistence that measles and mumps are harmless, mild diseases. Those vaccines rely upon herd immunity in order to be fully effective. So when people like you brush those diseases off as harmless, and refuse to vaccinate for them, you are putting children who CANNOT be vaccinated (due to age or immunity disorder) at risk. Mumps can cause infertility in men. So your little girl could be carrying the mumps virus, pass it along to the newborn boy at the doctor's office, and render him infertile.

And mumps outbreaks have increased, primarily due to people like yourself who will not vaccinate against it.

In my experience, parents who refuse these vaccinations, without a valid medical reason (i.e. family history of allergies), are selfish and are only thinking about their own kids, and nobody else's.

Ally - posted on 04/06/2011

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Krista it is really hard to take people like you seriously when all you do is jump on someone with nasty comments, rude and fould language and not one factual informative of helpful statement in your entire rant.

You also didnt even bother to read my original post cuz you sound very silly saying I am anti-vaccine. My daughter has had several immunizations against things that i felt had more risks than certain vaccines.

So if words like throw and stick are offensive then how about choose to formula feed and place their child in daycare..cant believe a grown adult is aruing over word choices when they clearly mean the same thing but whatever.

Making informed choices is what parents are supposed to do not just act blindly bc some doctors tell us to. I have said over and over that vaccines serve a purpose and some people need them more than others and i Administer vaccines almost daily at the hospital when i work and rspect those that decline them for whatever reason. Do yourself a favor and dont be so closed minded.

Krista - posted on 04/06/2011

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Um, thanks for the "dose of reality" Ally.

And thanks for this: My child simply does not have the same risk factors as a child whose parents pass them around to anyone,take them out to crowded places stick them in daycare and throw them a bottle of formula.

But nooooo...you're not judgmental at ALL. "Stick" them in daycare, "THROW" them a bottle of formula? Seriously, do you honestly not realize how incredibly judgmental you sound? Or can you not hear yourself over the repetitive patting of your own back that you're doing?

Anti-vaxxers piss me off. They go on about how these diseases are mild and rare and pose no threats. Gee, I wonder why that is? Could it be that these diseases are rarer nowadays because of...vaccines? 'Cause I'm thinking that breast milk didn't offer a fuck of a lot of protection against polio for babies between 1840 and the 1950's, huh?

Let me ask you this, Ally: what do you think would happen if all vaccines were to be outlawed? You're against vaccines, so let's listen to you and just outlaw them all. There...no more vaccinations. At all.

Now, please tell me what you think the world will be like in 10 years, m'kay?

Ally - posted on 04/06/2011

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Amber,
Ok you clearly did not read what I said you simply decided to attack it. When i said that I have found that most people who choose NOT to vaccinate usually did more research that is just what I have found through normal everyday interactions with people that I know...those who waited ..like I said until they felt comfortable with the pros and cons like you did and any other mom who does that clearly doesn't fall into an uneducated catergory.

It is also not a judgement to say that children with a stay at home mom who breastfeeds is at a smaller risk for contracting illnesses than a young infant surrounded by many caregivers and other children....we all have different germs so therefore the more we are exposed the higher the risk...and i am glad you asked for citations so i will be including them here.
"breastmilk passes a whole host of moms antibodies for a variety of diseases to the baby [if a patient says] we just weaned our two month old and are now using formula , I worry" "placing a young baby in a group daycare setting significantly increases a baby's risk of encountering diseases, including menengitis,pertussis,rotovirus ,mumps measles rubella,chicken pox ,hep a and the flu."
Sears,Robert MD. The vaccine book-making the right decision for your child. (pages 20,21)

Those risk factors are just facts and I never said that one choice was better than the other it is a parents choice on how to raise their child if you're a SAHM who nurses , of course your child's risk for communicable diseases will be lower ...it doesnt mean that those who dont do that have made a wrong choice , just a different one. So please do not put words in my mouth.

Also nowhere in my post did I say parents who do vaccinate don't breastfeed and pass their children around simply that if you did those things and therefore increase your childs risks you should also increase their protection level and probably vaccinate. Neither choice again is right or wrong.

Finally, you just spent time telling me that I dont know peoples situations and shouldnt pretend to (although im pretty sure i didnt) then go on to accuse me of keeping my child in a bubble. Asking people to use handwashing with a newborn to prevent the spread of disease is not unreasonable (people should be doing this more anyway)...but hey if you dont wanna wash your hands that's your call. My child is a happy healthy more sociable and outgoing child than most other children her age the week before she got the chicken pox she had a birthday party two gymnastics classes our weekly playdate and a trip to the childrens museum. Last time i checked that is hardly a bubble.

Also to address some other questions with cited material
[regarding getting chicken pox more than once] "for most people, one infection seems to confer lifelong immunity" [regarding the vaccine] "15 -20 % of vaccinated people will still get the disease" both taken from cdc.gov/vaccines

"Most communicable diseases are benign" " infection usually confers lifelong immunity" Hockenberry, M. Essentials of pediatric nursing.

[regarding measles
"An important nursing function is instruction of the parents in proper home care of the child because most cases are not serious and do not require hospitalization. The disease is usually benign and mortality is rare." Mosby's dictionary of medicine, nursing and health professions. Pg 1161

I simply choose not to vaccinate my child with live visus vaccines for illnesses that are documented to be rare and usually mild. I feel i would be able to care for them if they did get sick but if they were harmed by a vaccine that i chose to give them i would have a harder time with that than if they got a disease bc of something i didn't do.

It's a personal choice just make the right one for you but don't judge other parents for not doing what you do...or make jusdgements about the way other people raise their children. All of my statements were broad and general yours and many others on this were just spiteful and nasty and pretty immature overall.

Oh anD this link will provided you with year by year data of all reported adverse vaccine reactions if you care to look bc thousands and thousands of children have been affected negatively by them.
http://vaers.hhs.gov/data/data/

Sneaky - posted on 04/05/2011

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Loureen, mostly I'm laughing at your last paragraph . . . laugh or cry I guess!

[deleted account]

I love ya, Loureen! You put it so much nicer than I could have.

Incidentally, I did do my research and paid for the rotavirus vaccine before it was on the schedule to protect my newborn. Damn good thing I did too, because I ended up getting it, but he didn't.

I've also got a friend who is blind in one eye because of measles and another who has been told he is sterile because of mumps (I think... in any case, some childhood illness we get vaccinated for). I'd rather vaccinate to protect my children AND everyone else's than for them to possibly suffer a similar fate.

Pia - posted on 04/05/2011

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It's also not unrealisc for us to want to vaccinate our children to protect them from these diseases, Ally.

Allicia - posted on 04/05/2011

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ALLY HEIGER- What are u on drugs or something? what are u smoking?
Why the hell are u happy about ur children having chicken pox? i had chicken pox as a child and now becuase of them over the summer I ended up having an out break of shingles. let me tell ya. they freakin HURT and ITCH! plus i guess u really didnt do ur research that well becuase kids can DIE from chicken pots. it doesnt happen that much but why would u wait and see when ur poor little children gets chicken pox and see how sick they can get. ur luck she is fine. plus it not safe for a preg person to be around anyone that has measle or any of that. it could harm the baby ur carrying at the time.
It also sounded like u kepted ur child locked up in the house pretty much all the time. thats a GREAT way to bring up a child. u need to shut up. people like u are the reason other people that want to vaccine their child but cant becuase of their not old enough and u spread sickness that could kill someone.

Sneaky - posted on 04/05/2011

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I would like to re-iterate (as the OP) that I started this thread as a VENT. There are at least two clusters of measles outbreaks in my state and I am scared for the health and well-being of my child. Is that rational of me? Does it matter if it is rational?? That's what a vent is about isn't it? To get out the stuff that upsets us???

So, please excuse me for being afraid and needing to share that, please take the opportunity to tell me that I need a 'dose of reality' - particularly when it is is a bloody miracle I even have these children since my husband almost died as a baby form (guess!) the freaking MEASLES. Please feel free to use my fear as a platform to sprout your own freaking opinion about vaccines when (guess what?) I don't really give a rat's ass what anyone else's opinion about vaccinations is. Is that real enough?

Stifler's - posted on 04/05/2011

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I vaccinate on the regular old vaccination schedule because it's recommended by doctors and pretty much everyone does it here. Not because I've sat on the internet reading stuff put out there which may or may not be false.

Pia - posted on 04/05/2011

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I dunno about everyone else but I researched and still decided to vaccinate according to the schedule (mostly). Because that IS what I feel is right for my family.

Ally - posted on 04/05/2011

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So, i posted most of this on a different thread but this one clearly needs a dose of reality....

I really find it disturbing that people who choose to vaccinate try and force everyone else to do the same just because they do. And the thought that we should be forced to have viruses injected into our newborns is insane. Over the years i have found that those who choose to follow the cdc's vaccine schedule and not question what their doctor says are the same people who have never read research studies,product inserts and investigated documented vaccine reactions. It is almost always the people willing to put in the legwork do their homework and make informed decisions that choose not to vaccinate their children. there are actually several people on these threads saying "i don't have the time to sit down and research this stuff for my kid" ..really?? then maybe you should change your priorities.
You also don't have to get your kids their shots on anyone elses schedule you can do what you feel comfortable with. My husband and i decided to wait until we felt we had done all our research before starting any vaccines (which happened to be when she was 20 weeks old.) i had done an entire research project on childhood vaccine safety and efficacy in nursing school only two years before but even in that short amount of time more studies came out and so did new vacine recomendations so we wanted to make sure we were up to date on our info.

People seriously have to stop grouping all children into the same risk factor catergory.Before our daughter recieved her first DTaP shot we literally kept her either at home, spent lots of time out in the open air on walks, or at family members houses who were illness free (her grandparents and father and aunts and uncles all got their TDaP boosters as well to protect her). Any one who touched her washed their hands before they did so she was not around other children or large groups. It is not other people's responsibility to protect your young infants...that is your job as a parent and one i took seriously. That meant not taking her grocery shopping or going out to dinner for about 6 months but it was a small sacrifice. She was also breastfed for almost 2 years and got antibodies for every disease i am immune to everytime she ate so she wasn't at much risk for most communicable diseases we vaccinate for anyway. I also stay home with her durring the week and work on the weekends so she has never had to be in a daycare setting. My child simply does not have the same risk factors as a child whose parents pass them around to anyone,take them out to crowded places stick them in daycare and throw them a bottle of formula.

You have to make the decision for your family and your child..not whats right for other people. If something doesnt sit right with you and you don't feel as though you have enogh info to make a decison then wait...but realize that it does put your child at an increased risk and act accordingly. I am writing this as i sit next to my daughter who is working happily on her workbook and is about one week into the chicken pox (gasp!). No problems and almost zero complaints with over 250 spots....i am so glad she got them as a child and now has lifelong immunity and isnt gonna have to worry about getting 3 shots for it before she is 13 and then boosters for the rest of her life. She has recieved some vaccines that i felt were important.... but vaccinate her for normal childhood illnesses meant to be had in childhood that RARELY have complications when they get them at a young age....not a chance.
For the vast majority of children (and people who vaccinate seem to love statistics since they are always quoting how safe and effective they are) measles, mumps chciken pox ect pass without any problems whatsoever. Is there the occasional problem ..of course...are there occasional problems with vaccine side effects ..absolutely (and with these live virus shots most of the vaccines serious side effects are exactly the same as complications from contracting the disease naturally)
So enough with the scare tactics please...it is just rediculous. We all make tough choices for our kids everyday and have to live with them. My child has not been in contact with any other childern who had the chicken pox...she did however play with two children who had just had their pox vaccine a few days before..our doct thinks those kids most likely shed the live virus and gave it to my child. Many docs forget to mention to parents that with the live virus vaccines (think chicken pox measles mumps rubella and rotavirus) their children are able to spread that disease to other children for a certain amount of time and while most parents have common sense to keep their child home when they are ill most don't have the knowledge to be responsible and keep them home for awhile after getting these shots ...so in this case it was the vaccinated children spreading diseases cuz their parents chose to ignore the fact that their kids could infect others with the virus after being immunized.

I have gotten nasty looks...the bad parent speech and had to change doctors bc i chose to do things differently and think for myself....do i care..not even a little. I made the right choices for my family and they may not be the right choices for yours but educate yourself and realize their are two sides to every argument.

Sneaky - posted on 04/03/2011

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But Donna - drugs solve everything!

Update - bub is getting her MMR a few weeks early and I am getting a booster. Just to put my mind at rest according to the doctor :o)

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Renae, I agree with your husband. They thought that whooping cough was under control, but look what happened there!

My BIL was diagnosed with ADHD back when he was a kid. He is now 28. For him to get that diagnosis and ve put on meds, my MIL had to consult their GP, who referred to a pediatrician, who referred to a nutritionist and dietician, who referred back to pediatrician, who then referred to a child psychiatrist that took ALL that documentation and handed down the diagnosis and put him on dex. That whole process took nearly a year because they had to try several diet modifications and behaviour therapies first! Now, my husband has a 14 yr old cousin, whom is a delinquent, who is on Ritalin because his mother took him to a GP and said "I can't control him, I need pills" basically and got them. The only thing that kid needs are some decent parents and a kick in the ass!

Stifler's - posted on 04/02/2011

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I blindly vaccinated. It's just common sense if you ask me... your body develops anti-bodies to a dead virus which prevents the likelihood of dying from the disease. I never researched or any of that crap. I'd never even heard of anti-vaxers until CoM. The crazy people who are like "if your child is vaccinated why do you care if my unvaccinated child is around them?". Yeah, I can see you've done your research.

Renae - posted on 04/02/2011

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I know lots and lots of people who dont vaccinate. I know even more who do vaccinate - but they are lobbying to be able to choose which vaccinations they want instead of having 3 in one needle. Personally, I dont have the spare brain power or the amount of time it would take (plus it would probably mean getting a medical degree to fully understand it) to do the research on the risks. My husband also believes that regardless of the risks the only thing that keeps diseases like polio away is vaccination and they will never be completely irradicated so if we stop vaccing they will creep back.



A lot of people I know who dont vac have not "researched" properly, they believe the stupid media release crap of the anti-vac advocates. The increase in autism rates argument really annoys me. Yeah, autism rates increased - but at the time of the increase not only was a vac released, but GPs in 3 states of australia became allowed to diagnosed autism, that's exactly how the overdiagnosis of ADD in the 90's happened (did we learn nothing from that?). Yeah lets allow GPs to diagnose in a couple of 10 minute visits what it takes a specially trained psychologist FOUR DAYS to diagnose. Look at the full picture people!



I recently found out a child at the family daycare I use is not vacc-ed - and the father pulled the autism thing on me, which I explained that the increase is actually artificial due to inaccurate diagnosis. All he had to say was "oh I didn't know anything about that". But I love my daycare lady and my baby loves going there. I'm surprised, I thought you had to be vacc-ed in WA to go to daycare?



Just like in a state election, I think it was 1998, they changed the operative definition of "child molestation" so that the statistics said child abuse had decreased since the existing government launched this child safe program - when infact, under the old definition rates had gone up. But some people believe everything they read without doing their homework.

Pia - posted on 04/02/2011

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Totally agree with you jen! All the anti vaxers in my life I no longer see because they're knowingly putting my baby at risk. They may not view it like that, but that's definitely how I see it.

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Emma, I admire your patience to be able to tolerate anti-vaxers at all. I personally can't. It makes me way too angry too fast. I guess I just see an opportunity to protect our children and they refuse to do it. It's no different than deciding your infant really will be ok sitting on your lap in the front seat while you drive.

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Oh my gosh! Shingles! You poor thing. I knew 2 women at church growing up who had shingles and one of them suffered for YEARS with nerve pain afterwards. The chicken pox vax came out the year before my son was born and he got it as soon as I could give it to him.

Stifler's - posted on 04/02/2011

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That's frigging crazy. 76%!!!! I have anti-vaxers on my Facebook and they make me so mad.

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