This is getting out of hand...

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Denikka - posted on 01/06/2013

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And are there a shit ton more pedophiles now or were they better at hiding and/or just less reported when we were young? Same with mental illness...I know that is partly because "we've" just begun to recognize certain signs and symptoms and even though there isn't enough, there is still more mental health care than there used to be but do you think it was as wide spread as it is today?


Mental illness, yes. there is more. It's getting easier to diagnose, it doesn't have the same *shame* stigma attached, and certain supposed mental illnesses, such as ADD/ADHD are being over diagnosed to people who don't actually have the problem for a variety or reasons from it makes the Dr money to prescribe medication to it's easier to throw a diagnosis on an active kid who doesn't fit the norm and either medicate them into submission or give a *reason* for why they act a certain way.*****
*****I know that the diagnosis of ADD/ADHD can be a touchy subject for some. I know some out there will say that it's a BS disease and doesn't actually exist. I'm not one of those. I fully sympathize with those who actually have this disease and struggle with it. I do not believe that all who are diagnosed with it actually have it though. I believe that in many ways it has become a catch all for kids who are just more active than others and an easy *out* for many. There are tons of stories of teachers *diagnosing* ADD/ADHD in children and insisting on medication for example.

As for the number of pedophiles, rapists, kidnappers, etc apparently the rate HAS gone up in the past 10ish years.
http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-002-x/20...
It's not a HUGE increase (although anything less than a dramatic decrease is unacceptable in my books), but it's still been an increase in Canada, according to this sheet.

http://www.unh.edu/ccrc/factsheet.html
This one, which is specifically geared towards crimes against youth and is not done by the government (and looks at an earlier time frame, before 2000) notes a marked decrease in crimes against children.

With both cases though, you have to take into consideration that previously (and even now) crimes against children are DRASTICALLY under reported. There's no real way to know if more crimes are being reported and less are being committed over all, or whether there's an actual increase or decrease in the grand scheme of things.

Realistically though, I don't think it's any increase in the actual crime that has people in such a state of fear. It's the over reporting. Dramatic crimes create ratings, so when something happens, like the Sandy Hook school shooting, they run with it for a long time, bring up other references to similar happenings, even if they didn't happen in the same time frame, and continue to bring it up with updates over a hugely extended period of time. It's like constantly having these crimes rubbed in our faces where otherwise they would have been moved on from.


And going back to this boy, even if he had been warned twice previous, he's 6. 6yr olds are not exactly known for their excellent memory when it comes to things they regard as petty. I'm sure many of you have or have had kids around that age. how many times do you have to remind them to get ready in the morning? Or to do their chores? Or to brush their teeth? And those are things that they have done consistently over a long period of time.
What about things like asking them to stop climbing on something? Lower their voice? etc etc etc.
At BEST this is a discipline issue of the child not listening to the teacher. Not a safety issue or anything more.

You know what used to happen to us when we didn't listen? We had to stay in at recess. Maybe write some lines. If it was in the middle of class and disruptive for any reason, we were either placed at a desk right outside the classroom door (mostly for the older kids) or we were moved into a corner away from the other kids and in more extreme cases, the teacher used gym mats to section us off for a day, maybe 2 if it was really bad. Usually it was just for a block of the day (either morning until recess, after recess until lunch, or from after lunch until the end of the day).

Mary - posted on 01/06/2013

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My initial reaction was "Oh FFS"...but then I read a slightly more detailed article on this. (I live in MD, about 50 miles away from this school). It really wasn't quite as simple as the kid made a one-time hand gesture and was suspended.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/01/mon...

It seems that the kid had done this twice before in the same day, and was both warned and counseled that this was unacceptable. The parents had also been called and informed of the situation after the 2nd incident, and were told that a 3rd incident could result in his suspension. I also think that this occurred within a week after Sandy Hook contributed to the school's hypersensitive response.

As Kristi pointed out, the sad reality is that there have been numerous episodes of children in elementary school bringing a gun to school - or worse. It's sort of hard for teachers and administrators to blow what seems like innocent crap off - because who knows anymore which kid really is a sociopath who will follow up on a seemingly harmless threat a week later? For which, I might add, those same teachers and administrators would be crucified for failing to act when they had the chance.

The bottom line is, this kid was told twice that this behavior was both serious and unacceptable. Still, he did it a 3rd time in the same day. I don't think a suspension and "This will go down on your permanent record" kind of thing was warranted (please tell me someone on here gets the Violent Femmes reference!) was warranted, but I do think the kid should have been removed from the class and the parents called to meet with principal after the 3rd repeat offense.

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Kristi - posted on 01/07/2013

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Thank you, Denikka. You make some very good points and I appreciate the references. I feel much the same about ADD/ADHD. There are way too many medicated/over medicated children out there, especially in the foster care system. It's the extreme version of putting your kid in front of the TV all day so you don't have to do anything with them. The main thing that really stuck out to me in your comment was the common sense response to the 6 year old's behavior. I never even thought to think about it that way. Anyways, thanks again! : )

Kristi - posted on 01/06/2013

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Lord...you guys couldn't play red rover? I got detention in high school (9-12) because I got caught kissing in the hallway too often. I mean kissing not sucking on my boyfriend while I grind on him. lol But in junior high (7-8) we played "human" chicken, where we sat on each other's shoulders and tried to pull everybody else off, last team standing won. I actually ended up with a semi-serious back injury during one of those games but scored when the teacher we all had a crush on carried me all the way back to the school. ; )

Food fights are rites of passage. It's sad that something so really innocent is now a serious threat to safety. Also back in my day, a lot of the older guys had their deer rifles mounted in their trucks. I did live in NORTHERN New York and my high school was in the sticks but nobody thought twice about it. From K-12 there was only ever 1 fist fight and nobody ever mentioned or even thought about grabbing a gun. Plus, it remained 1-1...it didn't turn into a big brawl even though there were clearly 2 sides and if you weren't on one, you were on the other. There was no middle ground. Today, that would never happen. 2 guys get into a fight then everybody has to jump in and inevitably a weapon enters the picture.

I read an article about this situation and it said this kid had already been warned a few times for doing that. I think it said that anymore you can't tell who is serious and who is not so they have a zero tolerance policy. I don't think I agree with suspending the kid...that is a bit dramatic but unfortunately, I think they do have a point in regards to not knowing for sure what is a threat and what isn't. Not too terribly long ago, out here (WA State) a 2nd grader brought a gun to school and shot his classmate. By the grace of God and a dozen or more surgeries she's alive but 2nd grade!

Sometimes I really do wonder if this is the end of times because things seem to just keep getting worse by the day. It seems that way in the US anyways, I have to admit, I don't read a lot of international news. Some public figure in Detroit summed it up best...We've just lost respect for each other; we've lost respect for life.

Is there even a way back to the time when a kid could just be a kid? Where would we even start? As Denikka said, it's not just one issue...

I don't watch very much prime time tv because I like the true crime shows and I do watch Law and Order SVU and Criminal Minds but I'm 41. I'm pretty sure the serial killer in me would have bloomed by now if there was one! lol But it seems like all the shows are filled with sex in at least one way or another. I'm not aware of any 1/2 hour comedies that I could watch with Grace now that I could have watched when I was 13. Really, even the 2 shows I watch are pretty violent and graphical for teens who might have more than one issue. Who decided I Love Lucy and The Facts of Life and Happy Days and The Cosby Show weren't entertaining families enough anymore? I'm all for advancing technology, etc. but the same goes for video games. I know we needed a little more action than Pong but games that are almost life like where the more devastation you cause the more points you score. I probably sound like an old granny...

And are there a shit ton more pedophiles now or were they better at hiding and/or just less reported when we were young? Same with mental illness...I know that is partly because "we've" just begun to recognize certain signs and symptoms and even though there isn't enough, there is still more mental health care than there used to be but do you think it was as wide spread as it is today?

Oh my goodness! I could go on forever! I so hope this is Moms Who need to Vent and not like Moms In Crisis--Please Offer Me Hope....in that case this comment might not be so helpful. Yikes! xp SMH--Can you guys tell that I don't have any friends to talk to about grown up stuff?

Denikka - posted on 01/04/2013

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I vaguely remember hearing something about a bunch of bull regarding a food fight.
That's just sad. . .it's one thing if someone starts throwing cutlery, but mash potatoes, french fries, chicken fingers, and pudding are hardly going to kill someone. Peanut butter sandwich...maybe. . .but I've never heard of a deathly topical allergy to potatoes or chicken. . .and if you're allergic...you run. . .
Sigh. . .

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 01/04/2013

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LOL...go Borg on the kids!

Did you hear the fiasco a few years back about students (a whole class of 200) was threatened with suspension for "hurling projectiles"? They staged a food fight, and were told that "If even one french fry flys, you will all be suspended"...and the school did it...

Well, that was the middle school in my town! Talk about looking like a bunch of fools...I did sort of feel bad, because it was my 9th grade class that started the "tradition" way back in the mid 80's...but the whole situation was completely blown out of proportion!

Denikka - posted on 01/03/2013

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Just detention? There were suspensions going on for playing tag (kid to touched, tripped over his own feet (by his own admission) and fell. In sight of a supervisor. No injuries what so ever. The kid who did the tagging got a 3 day suspension) or red rover (a whole group of kids (5 or 6 of them) got in school suspensions for playing red rover).
Yea....my elementary went kinda cuckoo over the whole non touching policies.

Not to mention the detentions, essays,etc that were doled out for *threatening behavior* such as throwing snow (didn't matter if it was at someone or not), *shooting* someone or otherwise *threatening* them with a *weapon* (such as a finger gun or any long object as a sword...including cheese strings and rulers)

The world has gone nuts. Just go Borg on the kids and throw them in maturation chambers. Then you never need to worry about them BEING KIDS!!
smh. . .good grief. . . .

♫ Shawnn ♪♫♫ - posted on 01/03/2013

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That is so right, Denikka! LOL...I remember when the no contact rule went in here, too...we got detention for playing "kiss chase" one day...good grief!

Denikka - posted on 01/03/2013

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Yea....good luck with that. Seems like the insanity is only getting worse XP

I am SO sick of this BS. I was in elementary school when the physical contact thing went crazy in my area. I can remember being told that we weren't allowed to hold hands (with other students K-grade 7), no hugging, no tag, no red rover, no physical contact of any sort.
It's just gone downhill from there. . . .

I'm assuming that most people here, and especially the parents, grandparents, etc of everyone here used to play cops and robbers, cowboys and indians, etc when they were kids. Most of them never hurt anyone in their lives.

It's not the guns, or the music, or the movies, or the video games that are turning more kids into killers/violent people in these days. It's a huge combination of a lot of different things.

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