Guidance not power!

Rebecca - posted on 03/25/2010

i do very much agree that smacking is totally wrong and come from a (severely) abusive background myself. i waited a long time to have kids because i wanted to be sure i had dealt with the bulk of my emotional issues first as i had a dread of being an abusive parent.

i have found parenting to be a tremendous challenge because of not having good parent role models from my own parenting. i am in a country where good parenting books are hard to come by; we have bought a few off amazon, but the import duty we have to pay when they arrive in the country and the expense of postage means that we pay about 5 times the book price to get books. our currency is also weak against the dollar, so getting books is REALLY expensive.

therefore i am not familiar with the books you are referring to. the ones that we have used to guide us are "Liberated parents, liberated children" and "How to talk so your kids will listen and how to listen so your kids will talk"... but we only got our hands on these when our eldest was already 3 -- before that we were really floundering and being run ragged by our eldest because we refused to use physical violence but weren't having a helluva lot of success with other strategies.

i find force usually to be the LEAST effective strategy, but there are situations where it is effective. i only resort to it when everything else i've tried fails (e.g. the situation with Anna has been going on for a month and we have been talking to our daughter about it and suggesting things for that entire month, without anything getting resolved .... including me being in the embarrassing position when we walked home from school one day, I ended up walking with Anna's mother, but my daughter ran off down to the road to get away from Anna.)

i do agree that talking to your kids is hardly ever suggested as a solution -- people will say they have tried everything and then i say well have you tried talking to them in this or this way (which seems obvious to me) and i usually get positive feedback from those suggestions.... they have usually not been tried, and actually what other parents seem to me to mean by talking to their kids doesn't seem to illicit any change in their kids, whereas i find that talking is fairly effective MOST of the time, but not always.

i sometimes find it VERY hard to think of natural consequences to things. i have done things like tell my older child if she doesn't get dressed in the morning she can go to school in her pyjamas (wow! complete turn around in morning behaviour!!) but that was not AT ALL effective with my toddler and only led to a screaming temper tantrum of NOTE.

i think you just need to keep weighing in with alternative suggestions to the forceful approach because if someone has a suggestion for me that does not involve force i would rather take that ... and i suspect a lot of parents feel the same way (unless you are on a thread where they clearly think smacking is an option) (and if i see someone saying they smacked their kid i always make a point of pointing out that it doesn't work otherwise they wouldn't be asking for advice and giving them the option of talking to their kids in a specific way).

unfortunately a lot of parents use christianity to back up the smacking position because of that line in the bible 'spare the rod, spoil the child' ... and strong evidence to the contrary seems to have no effect in convincing them otherwise.

Elizabeth - posted on 03/25/2010

I do understand that, and like I said I was sure I would mostly like get a response I'm just content that it is a clearification and not anger. I wrote in response to some of the "advice" that I have read in the forums. I understand that children and parenting styles are different for different situations and that I am very lucky to have started this path with my sons VERY early (before their first birthday this type of parenting was in place and understood by our whole family) I too have a son who tries hard to push his boundaries and test his limits, but again we have very, very seldom had to do anything other than natural consquences (with the exception of an altercation with the neighbors child who chooses to resort to violence before using words and my sons felt he needed to do the same which was quickly corrected.) The rules I set in place are normally easliy understood and I'm very good about being clear with my expectations. Yes they respect me because I am their mother but I also respect them for being who they are. (I'm not saying you don't... so please understand that I'm not wanting a misunderstanding) I think I was just bothered by other actually telling people to have power struggles with their children to fix the problem. Where I have learned that all power struggles will get you are frustration, and sometimes tears. I truly put value on how if we are honest and are willing to explain as well as be consistant in our beliefs (which I'm sure has a very big part to it) we will have children who will grow into wonderful adults for us to be proud of. Every problem in our home is either disscussed or there is a natural consquence that will be given. I have not grounded, or sent to a corner (though trust me I have been tempted) nor have I ever used my hands or threatened to use my hands as discipline. I truly do follow the words of Barbara Coloroso and her steps to help mold confident understanding human beings who understand their core values and beliefs and will not mind to critically question what is being said to them to help them grow as human beings. I don't agree that being a mother demands respect I've met many a mother who should never have had children because all their childs life has been is blame and bullying. ( I actually came out of a home that was abusive and negectful, I started worrying that I would follow the same path) But I have met other parents with different styles of parenting and I am very accepting of their choices I guess I was just upset about givng "advice" that involves taking power from the children ( the reason 2 year olds use the word "no" so often is because it is a word of power and they want that power.) I also follow the Triple P Parenting style which changes how you word things that you are wanting from your child eg. instead of don't run... walking please, or no standing... on your bum please, things like that. I also feel that if the behavior isn't going to hurt the child, others, or animals then why is it a big deal? They will learn what is needed of them throughout their experiences, and if we give them the tools to be kind, understanding and confident then we can trust they will make the right choices. But I feel I'm rambling so until next time :) Thanks for your opinion and point of view it is valuable and valid so I thank for your response :) Have a nice day:)

Rebecca - posted on 03/25/2010

i am not sure what kind of advice exactly you are complaining about so it's hard to comment. i do think there are times where i have to step up and just say no. while in general i favour an approach of talking to my kids, discussing things with them and explaining, there are times when i don't have time (or sometimes the energy if it's been a tough day) to spend even 2 minutes on a discussion and i expect them to do as they are told -- this is not really about exuding power, but about them trusting that i do have a VALID reason and if that is not clear to them, we will discuss it at an more opportune moment. i also strongly believe in time outs when children are misbehaving to a degree that communication is not possible -- i am not sure if this is what you mean by power play?

i think there are also times when you do have to insist on particular things your children may resent at the time. for example, my daughter started school at the beginning of this year. on the first day i picked her up, we were walking home and she noticed another little girl from her class (Anna) also walking the same way, but this girl and her daddy weren't speaking english. turns out they are not from our country, they were speaking Portuguese and are from Brazil. i immediately hit it off with her parents and she seemed to hit it off with the little girl. things seemed good for a while.

but for about the last month every day there has been some saga about why she doesn't like Anna or whatever. we were really sick of hearing about it. at a meeting with her teacher the other evening, we discussed it with her teacher and found out that Anna is having a REALLY hard time fitting it because of the language barrier and that she is therefore clingy with my daughter who is one of the popular kids.

this morning i found this pink piece of paper on the kitchen table and i didn't know what it was so i picked it up and found a note from Anna almost pleading with my daughter to be friends with her; it really broke my heart. my daughter had all kinds of excuses and reasons why she could ignore this note and ignore Anna (e.g. none of the other children like her), but my husband and I together weighed in and insisted that she make an effort for Anna.

it was definitely more of a power play on our part, altho we did give strong reasons why we expected her to comply. we told her how to deal with whatever was bugging her with Anna's behaviour and talk to Anna about it, we told her that since she is popular she is in a leadership role and needs to set an example of being friendly to Anna for the other children, and she needs to make sure that Anna has fond memories of our country when she goes back to Brazil (they are here for 2 years on a mission service).

our daughter really did not want to comply, but i felt strongly enough to insist. by this afternoon, Anna was visiting our house (they live in a complex across the road from us) and they were happily dancing to music.

i am glad that i insisted. i am sure the problems are not completely over yet wrt Anna, but i will not tolerate my daughter using her popularity to exclude anyone without a strong reason. and also, even if she doesn't like someone, i won't tolerate her being mean to them.

i believe it is VERY important to inculcate values and if our children are strong willed against them, then we have a responsibility to use whatever power we have to insist on the right way. i did tell my daughter that if she found she could not sort out things with Anna on her own, i would invite Anna over and help the two of them talk thru their differences, but that i expected her to at least try first.

on the whole i agree with you, and on the whole i do find a lot of parents trying to enforce things that i think are unnecessary battles to pick, and i let my kids have a lot of scope for making their own choices, and they are generally respectful, generous and kind, bright, creative etc. but there are times (today being the first really extreme example, but i am sure there will be a lot more such challenges as they get older) when i think you have to be really firm and unyielding.

Ricki - posted on 03/25/2010

Really depends on the kids, to be honest. I know some kids that are very, very head strong and stubborn. My daughter is one of them. I don't bully her, but I am her mother and she will respect that. She understands the consequences of her actions and how they harm/help others, she is very respectful of people in general. While I say that, she is also a kid and she does test her boundaries. It's not because I'm older that she will do as I say but because I am her mother, I set the rules and she follows them. I tell her why we have rules, why she has to listen to them and what will happen if she chooses not to. While I talk to her a lot about it, there does come a time when the time for talk is over and she has pushed the boundary to far.

Elizabeth - posted on 03/25/2010

I also stress respect for themselves and other around them. I use phrases like "respect my/their words"... and "I respect you I need the same in turn" I can't understand how that can be hard to do?