Having one of those bad days

Libby - posted on 02/21/2009

Quoting Tricia:

I'ts so hard when you lose a child and friends and family seem to have all the luck around you. I was 21 weeks when my Angel was still born 2 years ago, I still cry or get angry for no apparent reason, something just triggers me. It gets easier, but I was angry for a long time, and I  hated feeling that way, expecially toward people I love.

I think it will get easier.  I think with some distractions I will be able to start healing, slowly but surely.  I'll never get over it, but I will get through it.  I will always have a child missing.  You're right, sometimes you just get a trigger and for no reason the waterworks start flowing.  I was 20 weeks when Trina was still born in December.  It has been a rollercoaster, that's for sure.

Libby - posted on 02/21/2009

Quoting Elana:

You have the right to bbe angry, When my son Thomas was born about 4 years ago due to his heart defect and other complications he only lived for 9 weeks. I know how lucky I am to have had him live for that long. Somebody gave us gift vouchers to spend on him just after he was born. I remember looking in a baby shop for ideas and seeing so many pregnant mothers. I just wanted to prick them all with a pin, (how mean does that sound!!!). It is so hard isnt it. We are supposed to feel happy for other pregnant mums but inside angry and resentment feelings are often there.

Prick them with a pin?  Oh man, I've thought of a lot worse.  How bad does that make me?  Yes, it is hard.  It was so difficult at first that it made me physicall ill once.  I was at a restaurant with my mom and boys and my uncle, and my mom always uses the same waitress there.  Well, it was a couple weeks after our daughter was born and this morning was a pretty decdent morning.  I wasn't too depressed and then after we were done eating the waitress said how she was 10 weeks pregnant.  I felt physically ill and thought I wsas going to throw up.  I was glad we were done eating and ready to leave.  But those moments are so tough!

Tricia - posted on 02/20/2009

I'ts so hard when you lose a child and friends and family seem to have all the luck around you. I was 21 weeks when my Angel was still born 2 years ago, I still cry or get angry for no apparent reason, something just triggers me. It gets easier, but I was angry for a long time, and I  hated feeling that way, expecially toward people I love.

Elana - posted on 02/20/2009

You have the right to bbe angry, When my son Thomas was born about 4 years ago due to his heart defect and other complications he only lived for 9 weeks. I know how lucky I am to have had him live for that long. Somebody gave us gift vouchers to spend on him just after he was born. I remember looking in a baby shop for ideas and seeing so many pregnant mothers. I just wanted to prick them all with a pin, (how mean does that sound!!!). It is so hard isnt it. We are supposed to feel happy for other pregnant mums but inside angry and resentment feelings are often there.

Libby - posted on 02/20/2009

It wasn't long at all, I long long...I do long! 

I read your last comment and thought you were me.  So much of it was my experience and my emotions.  The feelings of seeing pregnant women who had their babies....ugh!  Hearing that we could abort from the specialist, I know what that's like.  Driving home and hyperventaliting and crying and not knowing what is going on.  I too called my mom when we got home.  She didn't understand why nothing could be done.  I too bought maternity clothes I never got to wear.  But I wore a black shirt to the memorial that I had bought.  I didn't really need to wear a maternity shirt, but I bought it to wear for her, so I did.  And it was black, so I guess it was appropriate.  My time didn't drag on.  I went into labor on my own the same day we left the specialist's office.  It was painful and quick.  I wish it hadn't been so painful because I can only imagine how helpless my husband felt.  I finally got some pain meds in my IV only about 10 minutes before I delivered, so it did nothing for the sharp pains I had down there when she came out.  I apologized to the nurses for screaming.  I'm sure they didn't care or mind, but I didn't want to be one of those screaming mothers in labor.  I'm also surprised it hurt so much, she was so tiny!  On the way home from the hospital I asked my husband why God let us go so long if only to take her away from us.  But without a response from him I immediately got my answer in my heart.  II believe God knows how much I need closure.  I believe if I hadn't gotten to see her one last time, and know all of her fluid was gone before I went into labor, I would've always have wondered.  I knew by getting far enough along to hold her, it was God's way of Him allowing us some type of closure.  Our family and friends got to see her and hold her.  We had time with her even if she wasn't alive.  I believe it all happened like that because God knows me.  Yes, I thought this would be something I would never be able to handle, but he gave me ways to handle it.  I guess I am handling it.  Even though there are times it doesn't feel that way.  But I am.

Jennifer - posted on 02/20/2009

The worry of wondering if there is a heart beat is so consuming. We went in for our half way ultrasound where they check everything and tell you boy or girl. My doctor sent us to a hospital because the visit before he thougth he saw a hernia. We were filling out paperwork and I remember reading a question that asked if I had had any previous pregnancies that ended with miscarriage or still birth. I remember thinking that would be terrible to go through pregnancy and then have your baby but not get to take it home. I had no idea and I thought wouldn't it suck to go home and have nothing to show for your pregnancy. I was young. We went in and the tech began the ultrasound. She said she could find everything, but the left hand. She didn't seem worried. She had a doctor come in to look at it because of the hernia issue and he didn't say anything, he just looked and then left the room. I really didn't think anything was wrong because the tech went on to ask if we wanted the sex of the baby.



When we left the room we were told to go wait for the doctor in his office. We walked in and sat down and were pretty confused. He came in and proceeded to tell us that our baby boy had some fatal birth defects and that we had two choices. We could wait to see how it played out or we could terminate then. He handed us a handful of papers on the subject and left. We were devastated. The fear I had just read about on the paperwork was now reality, my reality. My husband and I sat there in silence while the tears rolled down our cheeks. We had just gone shopping for matenrity clothes that I wasn't going to get to wear. We were so excited to call everyone and tell them we were going to have a boy and now we didn't want to talk to anyone. As we got in the elevator to leave a very pregnant woman got on the elevator. I felt so alone. My baby wasn't healthy and hers was, that just wasn't fair.



When we got to the car we just sat there and cried. We couldn't even think of driving the thirty minutes home. I don't even remember that drive. I am sure it was in silence. Neither of us knew what to say. We got home and changed. I called my mom and told her and asked that she tell people not to call us. As we got ready for bed my husband's brother called to hear the exciting news. I burst into tears and told him. He said they would pray for us and hung up. Later I found out they were calling to tell us they were pregnant too. I cried so much that night I ended up in the bathroom vomitting.



The next day my doctor called and told me that whatever we wanted to do was fine. He asked if there was anything he could do, he had lost a child before too. We said we didn't know what we needed, but we would let him know. We decided to go to the Temple that day. (I'm LDS, Mormon) Sitting in that Holy House of God I felt so calm and comforted and I knew my Heavenly Father would watch over my boy and it was ok if we were confused, He would take care of it. Two weeks later we went to the doctor and there was no heart beat. I remember seeing his once lively body laying motionless at the bottom of the screen. My kind doctor sent us home out the back door and said to call when I was ready to induce labor. We set up a day and went to have him.



I knew labor was hard, but I think going through it all and delivering a tiny lifeless body is so much harder. We buried him 2 days later.



Sorry if this is too long. I just thought I should share.

Libby - posted on 02/20/2009

I remember the torture from when I went to the ER.  This was about 10 days after I had my first spotting episode.  And all of the sudden it came back, was a little heavier than the 1st time, and I had cramping.  I was freaked.  It was a Friday night, I had a hard time getting back to sleep b/c I didn't know what was going on with her.  So, I went to the ER.  I went by myself.  My husband had to take my oldest to a wrestling tournament in the morning and I wanted him to just stay home with the kids so they could go and so I wouldn't have to wake up my mom.  I figured I was just going to go and find out she was ok and come home.  That's all I wanted to know is that she was OK. 

So, I went.  The ER doc did an internal exam, removed clots and made the bleeding MUCH worse.  I asked for him to find the heart beat (I had to ask twice).  He couldn't find it.  He said it was ok because I was still pretty early on.  But that wasn't good enough for me b/c I had heard the heart beat at the doctor's office the week before, so I knew it wasn't impossible to find.  I wanted an ultrasound and he didn't want to give me one.  Saying something like it wasn't medically necessary b/c if I was going to go home on bedrest or going home to miscarry that my discharge instructions would be the same.  I didn't feel that way.  I wanted to know if I was going to go home to pass my baby or not. 

I texted my husband and told him to call my doctor.  So, my doctor called the hospital and spoke to the ER doctor and told him I was go get an ultrasound and if the outcome wasn't good he was suppose to call him back and NOT discharge me.  I had the best ultrasound tech ever.  They aren't suppose to tell you or show you anything, but she did.  I had prayed to just find out if she was OK, and the ultrasound tech found my girl's heartbeat.  I was so relieved. 

The last ultrasound I had of her was the day she was born.  I went to the specialist that morning.  She was alive.  But she didn't have any fluid.  It was such a horror.  I knew she couldn't live without it.  I went home that afternoon only to go to the hospital because of bad cramping/contractions.  Even when I went back the nurses found her heartbeat on the monitor.  But now that I think about it, they didn't leave the monitor on me.  The nurse knew from what I was telling her things didn't sound good.  Perhaps she removed the monitor so I wouldn't know exactly when she died.  But it didn't take more than an hour and a half from when I got to the hospital until she was born.  I was relieved to hear her heartbeat when I got there, but I pretty much knew the inevitable.  I understood she couldn't survive without the fluid.  I knew the placenta wasn't working properly.  The specialist didn't give us much hope.  And the hope he did give us was that he's seen unexplained things happen before.  I didn't feel that was much hope at all. 

The specialist's focus at this point was my health and future fertility.  My focus was my baby because I wasn't having any more children.  He was worried that the bleeding would eventually seriously jeopardize my health.  I thought if I could just put up with it for a little while longer and give her some chance of survival it would be worth it.  Well, we all know how it turned out. 

I'm not sure how long I want to wait until the next one, if it happens.  I'm going to be 30 this year and I KNOW that's not old.  But we wanted to be done having kids by then.  I know a year or two isn't going to make much of a difference.  But I just feel like maybe I should try to finish my family sooner than later.  Because what if we're meant to have more than one more.  I told my husband that I wouldn't mind two more.  My boys are a little over 2 years apart, and my youngest is going to be 5 in May.  So if I were to have another baby he/she would be atleast 5 years from his/her closest sibling.  So, maybe if we had two more close in age they would be playmates like my boys are playmates with each other.  I don't know.  I'm not sure what God has in store for us.  I just can't wait to find out!

Libby - posted on 02/20/2009

I remember the torture from when I went to the ER.  This was about 10 days after I had my first spotting episode.  And all of the sudden it came back, was a little heavier than the 1st time, and I had cramping.  I was freaked.  It was a Friday night, I had a hard time getting back to sleep b/c I didn't know what was going on with her.  So, I went to the ER.  I went by myself.  My husband had to take my oldest to a wrestling tournament in the morning and I wanted him to just stay home with the kids so they could go and so I wouldn't have to wake up my mom.  I figured I was just going to go and find out she was ok and come home.  That's all I wanted to know is that she was OK. 

So, I went.  The ER doc did an internal exam, removed clots and made the bleeding MUCH worse.  I asked for him to find the heart beat (I had to ask twice).  He couldn't find it.  He said it was ok because I was still pretty early on.  But that wasn't good enough for me b/c I had heard the heart beat at the doctor's office the week before, so I knew it wasn't impossible to find.  I wanted an ultrasound and he didn't want to give me one.  Saying something like it wasn't medically necessary b/c if I was going to go home on bedrest or going home to miscarry that my discharge instructions would be the same.  I didn't feel that way.  I wanted to know if I was going to go home to pass my baby or not. 

I texted my husband and told him to call my doctor.  So, my doctor called the hospital and spoke to the ER doctor and told him I was go get an ultrasound and if the outcome wasn't good he was suppose to call him back and NOT discharge me.  I had the best ultrasound tech ever.  They aren't suppose to tell you or show you anything, but she did.  I had prayed to just find out if she was OK, and the ultrasound tech found my girl's heartbeat.  I was so relieved. 

The last ultrasound I had of her was the day she was born.  I went to the specialist that morning.  She was alive.  But she didn't have any fluid.  It was such a horror.  I knew she couldn't live without it.  I went home that afternoon only to go to the hospital because of bad cramping/contractions.  Even when I went back the nurses found her heartbeat on the monitor.  But now that I think about it, they didn't leave the monitor on me.  The nurse knew from what I was telling her things didn't sound good.  Perhaps she removed the monitor so I wouldn't know exactly when she died.  But it didn't take more than an hour and a half from when I got to the hospital until she was born.  I was relieved to hear her heartbeat when I got there, but I pretty much knew the inevitable.  I understood she couldn't survive without the fluid.  I knew the placenta wasn't working properly.  The specialist didn't give us much hope.  And the hope he did give us was that he's seen unexplained things happen before.  I didn't feel that was much hope at all. 

The specialist's focus at this point was my health and future fertility.  My focus was my baby because I wasn't having any more children.  He was worried that the bleeding would eventually seriously jeopardize my health.  I thought if I could just put up with it for a little while longer and give her some chance of survival it would be worth it.  Well, we all know how it turned out. 

I'm not sure how long I want to wait until the next one, if it happens.  I'm going to be 30 this year and I KNOW that's not old.  But we wanted to be done having kids by then.  I know a year or two isn't going to make much of a difference.  But I just feel like maybe I should try to finish my family sooner than later.  Because what if we're meant to have more than one more.  I told my husband that I wouldn't mind two more.  My boys are a little over 2 years apart, and my youngest is going to be 5 in May.  So if I were to have another baby he/she would be atleast 5 years from his/her closest sibling.  So, maybe if we had two more close in age they would be playmates like my boys are playmates with each other.  I don't know.  I'm not sure what God has in store for us.  I just can't wait to find out!

Celia - posted on 02/19/2009

Libby, I am sorry to hear you had a bad day. My days are like that also in that I will be "ok" for a few days and then just totally lose it on another. The worst part for me is that I feel like I am grieving while my son is still alive. And then I will have to grieve even more after his birth because his birthday will also be his "death" day. My heart goes out to you. I do think it is a good idea to "journal" or something like that in order to get your feelings out. It helps to have some kind of release. I do both journaling and have started a blog. The journal is where I put my thoughts that I might not want everyone else to read (more private type thoughts) but just about everything else goes onto my post. I want everyone I know to know how I am feeling so that hopefully I can avoid "stressful" or awkward situations with others. And I can totally relate to how you feel about seeing new babies and pregnant women. It's one of the reasons I have no desire to go out at the moment. Anyway, I just wanted you to know I was reading and understand how you feel.

Jennifer - posted on 02/19/2009

I hated waiting for the next appointment, but once I got there it was torture til I heard the heartbeat. I was sure I wanted one right after, but I am happy we waited. I needed that time to remember him and not feel like I couldn't wait to replace him. He is my son and I am glad he had his time with us before the next one came. I don't know if that makes sense.

Libby - posted on 02/19/2009

I know what you mean about hearing people complain.  I seem to have a lot of pregnant friends at Sebastian's school.  One just had a baby recently, the other 4 months ago, another is due when I was due.  The one who gave birth recently was telling us about her birth.  How it was the worst thing she's ever been through, blah blah blah.  One mom said to her, I bet you're glad you're not pregnant anymore.  Ugh, both of those statements made my stomach churn and my mind race.  I didn't respond to either.  But I thought to myself... "NO, THAT'S NOT THE WORSE THING THAT COULD HAPPEN!" and "I WOULD GIVE ANYTHING TO BE PREGNANT STILL."  

I know it will be scarey if we have another baby.  But the irony is I want it sooooo badly.  I will probably be in the doctor's office like every week just to know that the baby would be ok.  That was the worst part of having my bleeding with Trina is I felt helpless not knowing what was going on inside of me.  I was at the doctor quite a bit.  But even if I had an appointment within a week or two, it would still seem to take forever for that day to come.  It's just so weird that she's been gone for 11 weeks now.  I would be 31 weeks pregnant this week.  My 2nd child was born at 30 weeks!  I could literally have had a healthy baby by now.  Sure, there would be a hospital stay, but ultimately I could have a living baby.  It's weird how time can seem to tick by so slowly sometimes, and then other times it just flies by.

Jennifer - posted on 02/18/2009

I understand about loosing a child makes you appreciate being a parent more. Soon after we lost our son it made me so upset to hear people complain about their children crying and whining. I would have loved to hear my boy cry! I vowed that I would never complain when I my future children would cry or I would have to be up with them during the night. It still bothers me when people complain about their kids, at least they get to be with theirs. It is scarey to try to have another baby. I wasn't ready for almost 3 years. And the whole pregnancy I was worried about everything. I got so nervous before every doctor appointment. But when she was born I was so happy and felt so much love for her. The worries of the past were gone and I was a mommy again. If you guys are supposed to have more children you will and it will be a blessing. It is true, you never understand loosing a child unless you have. I would save my child too.



I don't have myspace, just facebook.

Libby - posted on 02/18/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I have pictures up and statues and a train my mom made for him with his name on it. So he is very much a presence in our home. We go to the cemetary often to visit him. I have a necklace I wear that has bothof their birthstones on it. I try to keep him around me. Do you really feel like God doesn't do everything He can to help you? He can't just take the pain away, He has to let us feel it. I believe that it is through our pain and trials that we grow and become the person God knows we can be. It is like when a parent does something they know their child won't like because it is for their own good. I hated when my mom would say that. But now I kind of understand. He loves us too much to let us be consumed by sorrow. He sends people into our lives that are there to help us. I had many people come into my life that supported me and helped me see there was light at the end of the tunnel and I have been put into other people's lives to share my experience with them. I do remember thinking that it didn't make sense that a loving God could let something this horrible happen to me. I was only 20 when it happened and I grew up very fast and now that 4 years have passed I look back at what I went through and I see who I am today and I know that it had to happen. I miss my son so much but I draw comfort from my faith, my faith in a loving Father in Heaven.

Here's the thing.  I can explain it best by this story in the Bible where this man goes to Jesus to ask Him to heal his son.  I don't remember off the top of my head who or why, but Jesus told the father that He could heal his son if he believed.  The father said he believed, but he needed help with his unbelief.  I guess the illustration would be better if I could remember the whole story right now.  But basically the point is I do believe in God's plan.  I just need help with the part of me that has an unbelief or a disbelief.  I don't want Him to take the pain away.  I want to feel the pain.  If I can't feel my daughter I want to feel the pain. 

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they were saying that there was this pill that can help you forget bad memories.  So, they were having people call in and give their opinions on it.  If I could've called in I would've told them that there would be no way I would erase the worse memory from my mind.  December 3rd was the worst day of my life, but if I erased it I wouldn't be able to remember my daughter.  I think we talked in this thread earlier about would we want to forget the pain, and I wouldn't.  I don't like the pain.  But if I could trade my pain for my daughter I would do it in a heart beat.  I would give just about anything to have her.  And I say just about anything, because I couldn't give up my boys for her. 

Speaking of the radio, same station had another hypothetical question about if your child was drowning and the person who could cure cancer, and you could only save one, who would you save?  The one radio personality said he would save the doctor to cure cancer because you can always have more children.  I was so furious by this.  This guy doesn't have any children, and by his response that is obvious.  So, therefore he's also never lost a child either.  There is no way to understand how horrible it is to lose a child until you go through it.  I look at it this way, I would save my child, because I believe if God gave someone the ability to find the cure for cancer, He will give it to somebody else too. 

I too believe that every experience molds us as a person.  I believe this experience has molded me as a mother.  I used to think I praised my blessings more because we almost lost our 2nd child.  But he made it even though he was born 10 weeks early.  So, I was thankful for that and looked at being a parent differently.  Now after losing a child I value being a parent even that much more.  I think I could burst because I love being a mommy so much.  I really do hope I get to be a mommy again one day.  I don't think I could've handled losing my daughter at 20, like you lost your son.  I'm 29 now, and I thought I was a grown up before this happened, but I sure am one now.  The only thing that worries me about being 29 (which I know this is kinda silly) but we wanted to be done having children by 30.  I know a couple of years don't make that big of a difference, but when you have this idea about how your future is going to be and then something happens to change that, it's kinda scarey.  I was really scared when I lost my job, and then my baby, because I wasn't sure what my future was going to be.  But now I am a stay at home mom and babysitting these two cute little kids.  And I am finding so much joy in that, especially with the little boy b/c he is just 16 months old and it has been such a long time since we've had a baby in the house.  I guess now I'm worried (not really scared) that my distant future is going to be way different than what we had tried to plan for.  My husband doesn't want to be "old" when the kids are out of the house, he wants to be able to enjoy life with me when they are all grown up.  I look at it like this, I want to be a mommy for as long as I can, and I don't really care how old I am.  Now, don't get me wrong, he's on board with having more children.  But what if it doesn't happen when for awhile?  I don't want him to regret having another child.  I know he won't, I just worry about his total happiness.  I want his dreams to be able to be reached too.  Ok, I'm rambling and being silly!  Thanks for listening.

Oh, by the way...do you have a myspace account?  I have a lot of pics on there and stuff.  If you do, send me a friend request...    www.myspace.com/libramommy

Jennifer - posted on 02/17/2009

I have pictures up and statues and a train my mom made for him with his name on it. So he is very much a presence in our home. We go to the cemetary often to visit him. I have a necklace I wear that has bothof their birthstones on it. I try to keep him around me. Do you really feel like God doesn't do everything He can to help you? He can't just take the pain away, He has to let us feel it. I believe that it is through our pain and trials that we grow and become the person God knows we can be. It is like when a parent does something they know their child won't like because it is for their own good. I hated when my mom would say that. But now I kind of understand. He loves us too much to let us be consumed by sorrow. He sends people into our lives that are there to help us. I had many people come into my life that supported me and helped me see there was light at the end of the tunnel and I have been put into other people's lives to share my experience with them. I do remember thinking that it didn't make sense that a loving God could let something this horrible happen to me. I was only 20 when it happened and I grew up very fast and now that 4 years have passed I look back at what I went through and I see who I am today and I know that it had to happen. I miss my son so much but I draw comfort from my faith, my faith in a loving Father in Heaven.

Libby - posted on 02/17/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I think on one side it is fun to wonder what they would look like and be like, but then it is hard because you don't know those things. I hope that I can make my son real for my daughter. When she is older I hope she understands she has an older brother. Your oldest sounds like he is very compassionate, I am sure that is a huge comfort. I just think God blesses us in so many ways. He really does all he can to ease our pain.

I'm not sure I believe that yet.  That He does all He can to ease our pain.  Right now I guess I'm in the place that I feel like if He wanted to ease my pain He wouldn't have let it happen to begin with.  I know that's not the right thing to think, and it's just my anger talking. 

I think it might be difficult for your daughter to understand she has an older brother.  It'll probably be easier for older siblings that are old enough to remember what happened than for younger siblings who weren't even born yet, or for very young (older) siblings that are too young to remember the other sibling.  But the only thing I can suggest is to have a presence of your son in the family.  Have a way to commemorate him.  Whether it be a photo, a statue of an angel, something you bought for him (I bought my daughter a Barbie for Christmas and a Webkinz last week, LOL).  I framed ultrasound pics as well as a few pics from the hospital.  I bought Trina her very own miniature Christmas tree that I can plan if I choose, but for now it's still sitting out and has her ornament hanging on it that we took off of the big tree when we took it down.  Perhaps every year you could do something special with your daughter on her brother's birthday, and other special days you want to commemorate.  There is something in almost every room of my house that makes me feel close to Trina.  A bear and her blanket from the hospital in my room.  A planter and some pictures in the dining room.  The tree and ornament and a photo album in the hall way.  More pictures, angel statues, a snow globe, her Barbie & webkinz in the living room, and the boys have one of her memorial cards in their room.  Let me know what you think you would like to do. 

Jennifer - posted on 02/17/2009

I think on one side it is fun to wonder what they would look like and be like, but then it is hard because you don't know those things. I hope that I can make my son real for my daughter. When she is older I hope she understands she has an older brother. Your oldest sounds like he is very compassionate, I am sure that is a huge comfort. I just think God blesses us in so many ways. He really does all he can to ease our pain.

Libby - posted on 02/17/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

Wow, what a sweet story. Thanks for sharing. It is amazing how children can be so intune to the spiritual things. I am glad your older son has good memories of his little sister. They sound like they will be great older brothers to their sister when you get to have her again.

Thanks!  I love that story too.  I think God let my son know about her so soon so we could have more time with her.  It made her more real by him knowing she was a girl and giving her a name so early on.  I had this deep down feeling he was right that she was a girl, but I didn't want to get my hopes up.  But he was right and it was so cool.  I don't know how he knew, he just did.  It's one of those unexplained things.  They are great brothers already.  They have taken such good care of me.  Those first few weeks when I cried a lot, my boys (especially my oldest) would just hold me.  He would caress my hair and just sit there with me.  I hated to put that stress on him having to take care of me, but I just felt like I wanted to be close to him because he was so close to her.  I try to spend some special time with the younger one too b/c I don't want him to feel left out of my love.  But I just have this feeling my daughter would've been just like my oldest.  I think they would've had the same eyes and hair and personalities, etc.  I think she would've been a momma's girl just like my oldest.  But I really wanted my husband to have a daddy's girl.  I think he deserves to have a little girl want nothing more than to just be around her daddy.  My oldest is a momma's boys, my other son is more of a grandma's boy than mom or dad, and I just think if she would've been a daddy's girl he would feel more fulfilled.  But maybe one day we'll get to have another child, and maybe it will be another girl and he will still get that.

Jennifer - posted on 02/17/2009

Wow, what a sweet story. Thanks for sharing. It is amazing how children can be so intune to the spiritual things. I am glad your older son has good memories of his little sister. They sound like they will be great older brothers to their sister when you get to have her again.

Libby - posted on 02/17/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I still try to figure it out sometimes too. I will stop and think did that really happen to me? That time seems like a blur in my head that it almost doesn't seem real. But when I stop and think about it, I remember how hard it was and that it was very real and very hard. I was wondering how your other children have handled it. Do they understand what happened?

Yes, it does feel sorta unreal, like it didn't happen.  Almost like I wasn't pregnant at all b/c it's like I don't have anything to show for it.  But like you said, you stop and think and you do have something to show for it, the pain.  My children have handled it well.  We go to church so our children understand about God and Heaven.  They understand it better than adults with their childlike faith and innocence.  When she was born we let our children come in and see her.  My oldest even touched her.  He just turned 7 and my other son is 4 1/2.  They have seen me cry, and we pray together at night and we talk about her a lot.  We have pictures around the house and some things out that belong to her.  My youngest even told me one day that if we have another girl we could name her Trina and if we have a boy one day we could name him Micah and give him to my brother in law (my nephew passed away 2 years ago).  I think it's sweet that he just wants to fix things and make it better.  They have actually told people that they have a sister and she was born too early so she died.  My oldest also knew about her before I knew I was pregnant, so I feel he has a special bond with her.  One day we were talking about our other nephew and my son said "he doesn't know when the other baby is coming yet".  When I asked him who, he said his baby sister.  I asked him if he wanted one and he said yes.  I asked him why and he said because he doesn't have one yet.  Two weeks later I found out I was pregnant.  We went to the doctor before we started to tell anybody and when we told the boys my oldest just acted like he already knew.  Then he was sure it was a girl and started calling her Trina.  When we had our ultrasound the boys went with us and the tech confirmed it was a girl, again my son took it in stride because he already knew.  So, when she passed we named her Trina.  I just felt like they were so close that we had to honor both of them and name her what my son had named her.  I would've loved to see that sibling bond as they grew up.  I just have this feeling he would've been extremely close to her.  I think he would've been an awesome big brother!  As for my other son, he is oblivious to most things, but I think he would've loved to finally have someone smaller than him in the house so he could pick on her like he gets picked on by his brother. 

Jennifer - posted on 02/16/2009

I still try to figure it out sometimes too. I will stop and think did that really happen to me? That time seems like a blur in my head that it almost doesn't seem real. But when I stop and think about it, I remember how hard it was and that it was very real and very hard. I was wondering how your other children have handled it. Do they understand what happened?

Libby - posted on 02/16/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I always tried to keep my tears to myself.  There were a few times that I just lost it and had to leave the room.  But, I think it was good for other people to see me cry, I think it let them know that I was having a hard time.  Most of the people thought that a month was enough and I should be done grieving, so when they saw me cry and walk out they knew that it wasn't that easy.  I think that to most people a still born loss isn't as hard as a child that was born and you raised for a year or even a few months.  But once I found out I was pregnant that baby was as real to me as my 6 month old is to me today.  Don't be afraid to let people see you cry.  I held a lot of things in, even from my husband sometimes.  I wish I had shared more, just to help people understand a little better.  I think I kept it in because it was very hard to share, but remember we can do hard things.

I guess I don't let people see it because it's too hard to explain.  You are right, it is very hard to share.  I let my husband see most of it.  But I guess he doesn't even see 100% of it.  But when he does see it, I don't have to explain myself to him.  He gets it.  I'm not sure if the people around me think I should be "over it" too, or what.  I think you are right though, that some people would think a still born loss isn't as hard.  But it is sooooooooooo real!  I'm definetly still trying to figure it all out. 

Jennifer - posted on 02/16/2009

Quoting Libby:

Yes, I'm very lucky I have my hubby.  It is weird how one day we can just feel good and the next we just don't.  I wonder why that is.  Is it b/c we hold it in for so long that it's just inevitable we will have one of those horrible days (or weeks)?  I don't really feel like I hold too much in.  But maybe that's part of it.  I do cry but I don't always tell people how I feel.  And I just don't let anybody see me cry.  I reserve most of that for private time.  I'm so glad though that you can use your experience in a positive way by helping people like me.  Thank you so much!

I always tried to keep my tears to myself.  There were a few times that I just lost it and had to leave the room.  But, I think it was good for other people to see me cry, I think it let them know that I was having a hard time.  Most of the people thought that a month was enough and I should be done grieving, so when they saw me cry and walk out they knew that it wasn't that easy.  I think that to most people a still born loss isn't as hard as a child that was born and you raised for a year or even a few months.  But once I found out I was pregnant that baby was as real to me as my 6 month old is to me today.  Don't be afraid to let people see you cry.  I held a lot of things in, even from my husband sometimes.  I wish I had shared more, just to help people understand a little better.  I think I kept it in because it was very hard to share, but remember we can do hard things.

Libby - posted on 02/16/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I am glad your husband is there for you.  It is funny how there are days when we are doing pretty good and then there will be a day where it feels like you take a few steps back.  I am glad that I can help, I feel like one of the reason I had this experience was so I could help others.  Let me know when you need a kind word.

Yes, I'm very lucky I have my hubby.  It is weird how one day we can just feel good and the next we just don't.  I wonder why that is.  Is it b/c we hold it in for so long that it's just inevitable we will have one of those horrible days (or weeks)?  I don't really feel like I hold too much in.  But maybe that's part of it.  I do cry but I don't always tell people how I feel.  And I just don't let anybody see me cry.  I reserve most of that for private time.  I'm so glad though that you can use your experience in a positive way by helping people like me.  Thank you so much!

Libby - posted on 02/16/2009

Quoting Debra:

hi libby , i no ,havin my 2 girls helped me alot i dont no what i would have done if i didnt have them they were my strenth . i didnt have trouble havin having my first 2 , but lost 2 before my twins and 1 after. i found it hard as one of my twins my daughter phoebe died for no reason they said she would have lived if they would have scaned me and seen that jordan my son had died 10 weeks earlyer, but there is hope as i have since gone to have a son and a daughter they are 8 and 10 now. i wish you all the best and my thoughts are with you and your family at this time xx

Thank you for giving me some hope.  I know there is the possibility that we will have more children.  I just am so afraid that I will lose another one.  I'm not sure I could go through that devastation again.  I don't know how you endured losing so many.  God bless you for doing so and coming here to give people, like me, some hope.

Jennifer - posted on 02/15/2009

Quoting Libby:

I know for SURE I can't do this alone.  I have found out that my husband is exactly the husband I need him to be.  A year ago I wouldn't have been so sure.  You know, when all the stupid little things are getting on your nerves, etc.  Then you go through something so HUGE that everything else seems so trivial.  I must say he has a lot on his plate right now and I know neither one of us knows how to handle this.  But he did say something today that made me feel better.  He's going to buy a new Jeep and he said that when we have another baby that he will sell it to buy a truck that will fit the baby too.  I mean, we both said we'd try again.  But it was soooo nice to hear it outloud about having another baby.  It gave me hope that we will have another one.  It's only been 10 1/2 weeks, but it feels like forever until that happens.  But when he said that it just made me feel better.  I feel like it will happen again instead of just feeling hopeless.  Thanks for giving me support and encouragement through this.  Especially this last week, I don't know why it's been so much harder lately.

I am glad your husband is there for you.  It is funny how there are days when we are doing pretty good and then there will be a day where it feels like you take a few steps back.  I am glad that I can help, I feel like one of the reason I had this experience was so I could help others.  Let me know when you need a kind word.

Debra - posted on 02/15/2009

hi libby , i no ,havin my 2 girls helped me alot i dont no what i would have done if i didnt have them they were my strenth . i didnt have trouble havin having my first 2 , but lost 2 before my twins and 1 after. i found it hard as one of my twins my daughter phoebe died for no reason they said she would have lived if they would have scaned me and seen that jordan my son had died 10 weeks earlyer, but there is hope as i have since gone to have a son and a daughter they are 8 and 10 now. i wish you all the best and my thoughts are with you and your family at this time xx

Libby - posted on 02/15/2009

Quoting Debra:

i understand where your coming from i also had 2 other children before my twins, so there isnt much time to grieve as you have to carry on the day to day things for the children that you do have and thats good b/c they keep you going and make you stronger.it dosn't mean we never think or forget about our babies b/c they will be in our hearts forever and im sure they know that and they wouldnt want there mummy to be sad they would want us to carry on as best we could. shes in your heart always so no matter where you go or what you do , she's with you xxxxxx

Yes Debra, it is probably a lot easier to have living children when you lose one.  I'm glad I don't have to experience it the other way around.  I always felt lucky that my 1st pregnancy was so easy and no problems b/c had my 2nd pregnancy was complicated and I had a preemie.  I think I would've been scared to have more kids had he been the 1st.  And I know I would've been scared to death to have more kids had my 3rd pregnancy been the 1st since I lost my daughter.  I will think of my little girl every day.  This has to make me stronger, because I know she didn't die for no reason.

Libby - posted on 02/15/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I always felt like there was a sign on my back and that when people saw it they instantly acted differently. I never knew if people were being nice because they felt bad or if they really cared. Then I realized that I wanted people to know that I had lost a baby, I was a mom without her child. That was part of my identity, whether I liked it or not. Loosing him made me who I am. I miss him with all my heart, but I know he is ok. I learned a lot of things because he was gone. Things I needed to learn. My relationship with God and my husband were strengthened because I had to rely on them to help hold me up. I learned how to be compassionate towards others. I learned that I can't control everything and that the one who does knows what He is doing.
I learned to trust God and put my faith in him. Most of all I learned that I can do very hard things, and I am a strong woman. As much as I miss Zack I know that that was the only way I could learn some of those things. I hope that someday you can look back at the woman you are now and you can see that you had to be her so you could be someone better. I am so sorry you have to go through this. It is the hardest thing I think we will ever have to endure. But I know that if we do all we can we will be made better because of it. You are in my prayers. This is a hard thing and we can't do it alone.

I know for SURE I can't do this alone.  I have found out that my husband is exactly the husband I need him to be.  A year ago I wouldn't have been so sure.  You know, when all the stupid little things are getting on your nerves, etc.  Then you go through something so HUGE that everything else seems so trivial.  I must say he has a lot on his plate right now and I know neither one of us knows how to handle this.  But he did say something today that made me feel better.  He's going to buy a new Jeep and he said that when we have another baby that he will sell it to buy a truck that will fit the baby too.  I mean, we both said we'd try again.  But it was soooo nice to hear it outloud about having another baby.  It gave me hope that we will have another one.  It's only been 10 1/2 weeks, but it feels like forever until that happens.  But when he said that it just made me feel better.  I feel like it will happen again instead of just feeling hopeless.  Thanks for giving me support and encouragement through this.  Especially this last week, I don't know why it's been so much harder lately.

Debra - posted on 02/15/2009

i understand where your coming from i also had 2 other children before my twins, so there isnt much time to grieve as you have to carry on the day to day things for the children that you do have and thats good b/c they keep you going and make you stronger.it dosn't mean we never think or forget about our babies b/c they will be in our hearts forever and im sure they know that and they wouldnt want there mummy to be sad they would want us to carry on as best we could. shes in your heart always so no matter where you go or what you do , she's with you xxxxxx

Jennifer - posted on 02/15/2009

I always felt like there was a sign on my back and that when people saw it they instantly acted differently. I never knew if people were being nice because they felt bad or if they really cared. Then I realized that I wanted people to know that I had lost a baby, I was a mom without her child. That was part of my identity, whether I liked it or not. Loosing him made me who I am. I miss him with all my heart, but I know he is ok. I learned a lot of things because he was gone. Things I needed to learn. My relationship with God and my husband were strengthened because I had to rely on them to help hold me up. I learned how to be compassionate towards others. I learned that I can't control everything and that the one who does knows what He is doing.

I learned to trust God and put my faith in him. Most of all I learned that I can do very hard things, and I am a strong woman. As much as I miss Zack I know that that was the only way I could learn some of those things. I hope that someday you can look back at the woman you are now and you can see that you had to be her so you could be someone better. I am so sorry you have to go through this. It is the hardest thing I think we will ever have to endure. But I know that if we do all we can we will be made better because of it. You are in my prayers. This is a hard thing and we can't do it alone.

Libby - posted on 02/14/2009

Quoting Debra:

hi libby, im sorry to hear you lost your daughter, i lost twins at 31 weeks and it was the hardest time of my life just like you, your are grieving and thats normal, dont rush things you need to give your self time to griev,and belive me it does get easyer i know , i lost my twins 11 years ago and that first year is the hardest, i still have the odd tearfull day like there birthday or when i look at there photos . at the moment it feels like your life has stopped and ur in a wirlwind of emotions not knowing where to turn but it will get better just give your self time, i promise it does xxx you take care hun xx

Thanks for taking the time to read and reply, Debra.  I know I have to allow myself time to grieve.  I just don't want to waste my time on that.  Why do I have to do that?  Why did I have to lose my baby only to spend days, months, years, decades grieving over my daughter?  I sound like the "this isn't fair" person.  I don't want anyone to think this shouldn't happen to me, but it's ok to happen to others.  Because it is truly NOT ok for this to happen to anyone.  But there is no way to change the outcome.  I think that's the worst thing, I can't change this.  I just don't want to grieve.  I am tired of grieving.  We've had a lot of deaths in the past 2 1/2 years in our family.  It's ironic b/c I thought I was lucky growing up b/c nobody I knew died.  I was older when I experienced my first death that was close to me.  Now I just feel like I'm in overload.  And I probably feel that way b/c dealing with the unnatural order of losing a child and it is not what a person expects.  I know time will make things better.  I'm just such an impatient person, I want that time to be now.  I don't want my daughter to think she isn't worth taking the time to grieve over, I just want to be happy and be happy with my family, that is suppose to include her.

Libby - posted on 02/14/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I truly am happy. It felt like I never would be, but I can honestly say I am. I felt like you that I should be "over it" just a couple of months after it happened, but it took me a year at least. And that is ok, we all deal with it differently and in our own time. I struggled with putting a fake smile on my face so everyone would think I was better, but I still ached inside. It was at least a year before the smile on my face was genuine. I still cry sometimes when I think about what I have missed with him. Like his first smile, his laugh and hold him at night as he falls alseep. But I know someday I will get to see him smile and hear his laugh and hold him in my arms. If I didn't know that he is mine forever, it would be very hard to deal with his loss. He is my baby boy forever, and when the day comes that I get to see him I will be over joyed. Don't worry about feeling sad. You should cry at things if you want to. Don't hold the tears in. I used to cry at diaper commercials. It is ok. And you don't sound like a pity party. You have real emotions and it is ok to express them. I have been there and I know what you are talking about. Just give yourself time don't rush your healing. It will happen, I promise.

Ok, I know you said I don't sound like a pity party, but I just don't want to be that girl who lost the baby.  I don't want people to feel like they can't say certain things around me.  Or that they have to wonder if my heart is breaking inside when I hold their babies (because it is).  I just don't want to be this person.  I don't want to be the mom that doesn't have all of her babies.  I don't want to be the mom who has to try again.  I was done having children.  She was my last.  Now I feel unfulfilled.  How freakin selfish is that?!  I have two beautiful healthy boys.  I could've lost my 2nd one like I lost her.  God gave me him and took her.  Why?  But he's here and I should be satisfied with that.  I have two children that everybody can see!  Why does it have to be because of the one they can't see that makes me different?  And I know I'm not different from everybody.  But I FEEL different.  Sometimes I feel like when a baby looks into my eyes she knows.  Or when people see me in a store or something they look at me and think I look empty inside.  I'm not walking around with my head hung down, but I feel like I am.  I know people can read my thoughts or see inside my soul, but it FEELS like they can and I don't want to be that girl who doesn't have her baby, her only daughter, her 3rd born, the baby who was born too early, who was born still, who was alive an hour before she was born, who I miss soooooooooooo much.  I know I can't rush things.  I just don't want to be this person.

Debra - posted on 02/14/2009

hi libby, im sorry to hear you lost your daughter, i lost twins at 31 weeks and it was the hardest time of my life just like you, your are grieving and thats normal, dont rush things you need to give your self time to griev,and belive me it does get easyer i know , i lost my twins 11 years ago and that first year is the hardest, i still have the odd tearfull day like there birthday or when i look at there photos . at the moment it feels like your life has stopped and ur in a wirlwind of emotions not knowing where to turn but it will get better just give your self time, i promise it does xxx you take care hun xx

Jennifer - posted on 02/14/2009

I truly am happy. It felt like I never would be, but I can honestly say I am. I felt like you that I should be "over it" just a couple of months after it happened, but it took me a year at least. And that is ok, we all deal with it differently and in our own time. I struggled with putting a fake smile on my face so everyone would think I was better, but I still ached inside. It was at least a year before the smile on my face was genuine. I still cry sometimes when I think about what I have missed with him. Like his first smile, his laugh and hold him at night as he falls alseep. But I know someday I will get to see him smile and hear his laugh and hold him in my arms. If I didn't know that he is mine forever, it would be very hard to deal with his loss. He is my baby boy forever, and when the day comes that I get to see him I will be over joyed. Don't worry about feeling sad. You should cry at things if you want to. Don't hold the tears in. I used to cry at diaper commercials. It is ok. And you don't sound like a pity party. You have real emotions and it is ok to express them. I have been there and I know what you are talking about. Just give yourself time don't rush your healing. It will happen, I promise.

Libby - posted on 02/14/2009

Oh my gosh, I sound like a freakin pity party.  I don't want to sound like that.  I don't want to be that.  I don't want anybody's pity, I just want...well...you know

Libby - posted on 02/14/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I hear you on that. I have zero motivation to get healthier. I gained a lot of weight after loosing Zack and I just can't seem to loose it. I will admit I never thought I would ever be this happy again.

Jennifer,

So, when you say it like that...that you never thought you would ever be this happy again...does that mean you are happy right now?  For me it's kinda weird, on one hand I am so unhappy and completely devastated, and on the other I am happy with two beautiful boys and a wonderful husband.  So its sorta like I don't know what I am.  My friend had a baby 4 months ago and I love holding her daughter.  I guess I hold her and think this could be me, should be me.  I look at her daughter and think she could be mine, she has brown hair just like me and my boys, beautiful blue eyes like my 2nd son, she's happy and a good baby, just like both of my boys, this should be my daughter.  I should be holding my daughter.  This has been a horrible 10 weeks.  I look at myself and think I should be better by now.  I mean, I am better than I was 10 weeks ago.  I cried a lot then, had trouble sleeping, etc.  But I could cry a lot now, I guess I just don't let myself.  I don't WANT to cry at every little thing.  Like the little girl I babysat today will be 4 next month.  I put pigtails in her hair today.  I only have boys living, I will never be able to do that with my daughter.  So, I guess I have to find some motivation to get healthier.  When I lost weight before it helped me get some regular cycles and I got pregnant on my own (after trying for over a year to get pregnant with help).  So, I know I want to try again, and I'm heart broken that I'm not pregnant yet.  Besides, they say you're suppose to be more fertile the first couple months after losing a baby.  Well, that must be true for everyone but me.  I just feel like it can't happen soon enough.  Maybe I just want it to happen fast because I want my old life back.  I want a baby in my future again.  I want to be happy.  But how selfish am I for not being happy?!  Right now I feel like I am doing what I can to heal.  But I'm not sure what else I can do to help my broken heart heal.  I want to love a baby.  I hope I get that chance again.  I don't want to feel so broken anymore.

Jennifer - posted on 02/14/2009

I hear you on that. I have zero motivation to get healthier. I gained a lot of weight after loosing Zack and I just can't seem to loose it. I will admit I never thought I would ever be this happy again.

Libby - posted on 02/14/2009

I'm starting to think it's not just one of those "bad days"...it's gonna be a bad week.  I'm still feeling kinda off.  I've been eating junk all week which has been making me feel like crap.  I need to start eating right again.  I also need to exercise but we don't have our gym membership anymore.  I wish I had a treadmill so I could do that until it gets nice out so I can walk.  Well, I have a creamstick in the house.  I think I'm gonna go eat it and then it will be gone and I think tomorrow I will go back on my diet.  Maybe that will make me feel better some how.  I also haven't started my period yet and I know I'm not pregnant, so here I go again with long cycles.  I HATE that.  But gotta get back in shape a little more so perhaps I can regulate my cycles that way.  I guess it will just be motivation to eat right and exercise because I don't think I can get pregnant again until my cycles become regular like the did when I got pregnant this last time.  Guess we'll see what happens.  I just wish I could feel more motivated.

Wanda - posted on 02/13/2009

OK FRIENDS who toss pots and ramble. Time for a old lady to share some secret coping skills. If you dent the pot it will be wobbly and remind you forever.... or until you can afford a new pot. $$$$ expensive outburst. Satisfaction is only momentary.

Paper and matches are cheap.

First you get a very presentable box that is ok to look at = because it will have value as a tool in healing. You need to like the box and appreciate it because such a pretty box you do not want full of ugliness. Stay with me... ok.

At your own pace put each stressor thought and hard feeling onto seperate pieces of paper ( sized from a post-it-note -to- many paged letter). Explanation: it is like journaling but moveable and possibly temporary. So if it is written it is to YOU - from YOU. Reality is in this truth >>>> you can NOT FIX other people to how you want them, punish them, blah blah. They are created uniquely not YOU. THE little you have to work with is >>>>>> YOURSELF.

OTHERS will not fix YOU. Others will perhaps not care, help, understand, or even be near. If not addressed ... ya you are going to feel lonliness and abandoned. I call it being a female hermit. Add to this gloom the feelings = waves of being helpless .forgotten, avoided ++++++ plus nobody with the ability to carry a intellegent conversation on the topics of your choice/ needs.

There are vices people look to -or - give a thought to.... booze, pills, temper tantrums & whining a innocent human into a corner/ yak yak till their ears turn blue !!! Ohhhhhhh hell if one of us was to do all these at the same time....been there and done it = do not advise it.

Now we get serious about the PRETTY BOX. Ready?

Seperatly , write down each thing that makes you cry. Very important you do not document emotions "in lists". Write down every disappointment. Write down every heartache that has bad effects over your health. Write down who you are pissed at & be honest to yourself. Write down each way you have CHANGED!!! Write down negative feelings/blamb towards yourself.... same thing towards others. Write down what could be YOUR personal failures= what keeps you from being non crazy, what haults happy days, foggs your viewpoint of future dreams/goals. How are you not getting the percentage of closure than could give you a contentment of feeling semi-normal???????????

You do not want all this stuff in the pretty box making a clutter... it needs to be downsized!!! NO OTHER PERSON ON THIS PLANET CAN HAVE THE WISDOM OF DOWNSIZING what it will take to make you... what your GOAL is ... >>>> impossible because they do not know shit of what is tearing your heart apart and making mush of your head. A stranger could sit with the pretty box and attemt to read each scrap of paper and it won't make them wiser,smarter,or diddly squat more helpful to change the aches,fears,tears.

NOW is where we "put the big girl panties on" and face the road ahead. REVIEW all the ugly notes in the pretty box. Nothing can be removed without a rule of 3 -to- 5 red check marks proving you concidered that it is wisely believed you have the ability to cope and move past the statement written. You have to earn the privledge of removing a ugly paper from your pretty box. Trust me .... it will slowly disappear. As per usual nothing worthwhile is easy. I tackled the hardest (for me) head on first, you can save it for last if you care to go in a reverse order.

(A) what or who can I forgive? my beginning efforts to put some RED INK .

(B) is the pain. fear. avoidence, tears ??? not 24/7 does it leave my thoughts for periods of time? can I breathe fuller breaths ? do I sigh /moan/groan/ cry with less physical effects and intensity? >>> example: a improvement from total inability to get out of bed... improvement in taking care of myself eating well & looking OK as per normal "me".

(C). About the ugly, we need to gauge it... by jotting a initial. R/F is for fresh and raw, ? F/D fresh and daily, L/O is less often, N/T is now and then, S/s is seldon or sometimes. Doodle on the dang ugly stuff because you control those pieces of paper= paper does not controll you !!! EMPOWERMENT SKILLS 101

Only allowed one check (or huge X) per viewing of eash paper daily. Mark the date. You can not go back in a couple days and erase what a "good" move you documented just because you had a tearjerker day. If .... you were wrong about the ability to go from a mark of improvement on review this day you have to draw a broken heart to the paper.

Say you come back on a strong day and do not feel a second broken heart is fitting your efforts to be posative.... you get to do someting cool... color the heart a healthy favorite color or put a gold heart / some kind of sticker on top the yuk broken heart sketch........... plus you earned a new Red INK X (date this). Not doing well ..who can blame you if a broken heart joins a previous sketch (also date). Get lots of broken hearts??? it is not a failure = it is simply unresolved issues. So many broken hearts on this ugly page in the pretty file box.... tape a scrap on and keep on.

You honestly just can not ignore what is unpleasant forever............ hey it's your life so make your own rules and set your own pace. A review can be weekly , bi-monthly, monthly, every other month, .......eventually the hope is to have less need because less crap is in your pretty box. Whenever = we get to have a cerimony of removal and 3 items will help us.

#1. A dollar journal $ or available notebook for this purpose only

#2. Box of zip-lock baggies ... small size...

#3. What I called my "tool box" to store items used in removal/downsizing

(can keep red ink pen, pencil,stickers, even a scissor in here)

Next Empowerment is "rocking it" rather than drowning in it. Moving beyond the ugly uncontrolable to seeing a bit of less burden.

First baggie I drew a question mark on in permanent marker. Anything newly removed because I earned taking it out... goes here.

At first when I was tempted to put it back as unresolved... I sprayed it with perfume my partner hated= NO stinkin up the house with my issues.

Second Baggie had a smiley face on it.........I got to cut up or rip up those perfumed notes. Then zip them up

Last baggie of C_E_L_E_B_R_A_T_I_O_N_ no going back. I always drew a star on.

The shredded scraps of ugly were pleasantly moved ... moving is part of the process ...it is in forming a ritual of steps of saying I am READY TO TAKE THIS ON. Last baggie gets enough teaspons of water to get it soggy damp...... kinda flamboyant (spell check?) add a dash of cooking oil. I now have useless mush with NO PURPOSE = so it goes in the garbage to be seen never again.

****** exception to the rule is if a problem resurfaces you can start over & new ugly note goes in the pretty box.

When I learned of this from a web page years ago (on divorce & infidelity) they used a metal coffee can and matches (burning ceremony) instead of a baggie and water ( mercy me I am blessed to be beyond burt fingers ).

THE JOURNAL is short and sweet. On date: _ _/ _ _/ 2 _ _ 9 . A problem was washed away. A note of positive joy is allowable. Mercy me I feel good.

The journal can't be empty.........so I chose to honor those who supported me. I called it a guest book page but it was actually a " LIFELINE circle "of the special few who came near , stayed near, returned, kept in touch,. I simply wrote name, relationship = family/old friend/ childs friend/ new friend/ or career position whatever.

I do not leave stuff sitting around with DETAILS ? & personal info because it is not for others to understand. = as in :o( MY ugly notes were BAAADDDDDDDDDD ASS mad at a heap of places,people and situations. Soooooooo better.

I managed to go from quite a few dozen complaints... to just a few unfunished areas that are healthy???? now classed on my "to do" BUCKET LIST. I have time. Someday.

Along with you mothers here, I had some new friends I can not speak highly enough of. I was given a book that helped me...but maybe would not work for everyone. I still cuss a bit but the biggest thing I throw is a few rocks in a creek and a soggy zip-lock of a note I never will need again. Have a fair to kinda life is good weekend my friends. I hope to return when I get some chores done, I spend way lots of time reading about moms = Facebook is like a favorite book (giggle).

Anyone ever hear about a WORRY STONE?????? I did not pay attention to my dads use of them until he was gone. I'll explain this to you if it is of help Hugs.

Jennifer - posted on 02/12/2009

This is the place to get all those things out of your head. We all understand and we won't judge. i wanted to get pregnant right after, bu the longer I went with out getting pregnant the more I realized I wasn't ready. 3 years later when I got pregnant again I just about went crazy with worry. Every doctor appointment was nerve wracking. I couldn't look at the screen when they did ultrasounds until I knew there was a heart beat. I didn't let myself get excited the whole pregnancy because I couldn't handle getting my hopes up and then crashing again. It wasn't until I held her and saw her and heard her that I let myself be excited.

It does help to have people close to you that understand. No one in my family had been through anything even remotely similar so we were pretty much on our own with dealing with it. I am glad you have people that understand. In our church we do what we call a baby blessing (kind of like a baptism, but a little different), we really wanted to to that for our son and for us. Kind of a way to send him off and give us peace of mind that we did all we could for him. Anyway, our family was very supportive at that. So that was one thing I was grateful for. We could at least share that with them and make him a little more real for them. Thank you for sharing your experience. It is nice to have a place to feel safe about sharing.

Libby - posted on 02/12/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

The due date will be a rough day, at least it was for me. My husband and I were the only ones that remembered it. Very shortly after our son was stillborn at 22 weeks we found out both my husband's brothers and their wives were expecting. I felt that betrayal that was talked about. And I even thought about them loosing their babies. I thought at least then they would understand. Now when I look back I wasn't thinking those things out of hate, it was hurt. I desperately wanted someone to understand me. I was called rude on a couple of occasions because I wasn't "happy" for them. When Zack's due date came around I left so alone and like no one cared. And then when his first birthday came around and I got one phone call from my mom I was devastated that this important day was forgotten by the ones we love. Now it has been 4 years and Jan. 27th is still just a normal day to everyone else. I hope you have people that will remember your daughter, but if you don't know you aren't alone. I am sorry that you had to go through this, but it is nice to know there are others. I hope this makes sense. Sorry that I rambled, there are just a lot of things inside me that have been waiting a long time to come out.

I think my due date is going to be rough too.  Atleast this year it will be.  Not sure about next year or the years to follow.  But I think her birthday will get acknowledged by atleast a few family members.  I won't hold my breath for the rest though.  My mother in law didn't even acknowledge me at my own daughter's memorial.  No hug, no "how are you", no nothing.  I think she was basically there for show.  She flew in from Florida to Ohio and basically spent time with her own side of the family at the memorial (and she was late to it).  We had sort of an open house for 2 hours at our church, and my husband wanted the family to be there the whole time.  But she was late for her own brother's funeral, so it's not too farfetched to think she wouldn't be on time to her own granddaughter's memorial.  One she didn't get to meet or know or even express any happiness for during the pregnancy.  Plus, she's not a very good grandmother to my son's.  There was about two years that went by and she didn't even send them birthday cards or Christmas presents.  So, I've learned not to expect, or even want anything from certain people.  Now I have some ideas on who will acknowledge the certain important days.  Like my brother in law for instance.  We just had the 2nd anniversary of the death of his son.  He died 2 weeks before his 1st birthday.  The 1st and 2nd anniversary we all got together as a big family.  The first year I wrote a poem and published it in the paper.  This year I couldn't do anything special like that because I had expenses to pay at the funeral home.  But atleast we were able to be together as a family.  Anyway, I just think he would be one that would acknowledge certain things because he knows how it feels.  In fact, about 2 weeks ago, for no reason, he got me a picture frame and a little knick knack to set out that has a boy and girl angel on it (symbolizing our children playing together). 

Wow, I can't imagine how that felt to have people in the family that were having babies.  Atleast everybody around me so far haven't really been family members.  Two are sort of family (siblings to my brother in law's wife) , and the rest are just friends.  It's still hard enough though to know that somebody is pregnant.  I think that's what I thought too, if they lost their babies then they'd know how I felt.  Because I feel like NOBODY knows except for my husband.  Well, all of you know.  But in my real life I can't say that anybody understands except for my brother in law.  I want to make everybody understand.  But I don't want anybody to have to go through this either.  I wish there was an easier way.  It's kinda weird b/c the last couple of days I've said I felt moody or whatever.  Today I took both boys to school and didn't have to babysit for a couple of hours, so I wanted to go to a store which ended up not being open yet.  But I just felt kinda lost.  I didn't know where else I wanted to go.  I didn't want to go home, but I felt lost and had no direction.  So, I stopped for a hot chocolate, and then got some breakfast.  But the hubby was at work and I was alone, and I felt soooooo lonely.  Well, hopefully it's just hormones.  Maybe my period is going to start soon.  I'm just kinda waiting on it.  Not sure when it will start b/c I've only had one cycle since I gave birth.  Just wish it would start soon so I can get out of this moodiness.  Actually, that's not true, I wish it wouldn't start b/c I want to be pregnant again.  But I doubt I am, so just want to get on to the next opportunity when I possibly could get pregnant.  But I have PCOS, so my cycles usually aren't timely.  I lost some weight right before I got pregnant with her and had a few somewhat normal cycles, but not sure that will happen now.  So, I'm just sitting here wondering when it will be.  I hated waiting for the next cycle when I was trying to conceive.  And I still hate it now.  It's like if I don't get pregnant then I have to wait so much longer than a person with normal cycles to be able to try again.  Might check with my doctor to see if I can try the clomid again to see if that helps me ovulate b/c that's always been my problem.  Had to use clomid to get pregnant with my 2nd.  Tried for over a year to get pregnant the 3rd time with the clomid and it didn't happen until I lost some weight.  Weird.  Anyway, I'm rambling now.  I guess I'm just trying to get some of these thoughts out of my head that have been stuck in there for awhile.  Sorry!  But thanks for responding.  I really appreciate it.

Jennifer - posted on 02/12/2009

The due date will be a rough day, at least it was for me. My husband and I were the only ones that remembered it. Very shortly after our son was stillborn at 22 weeks we found out both my husband's brothers and their wives were expecting. I felt that betrayal that was talked about. And I even thought about them loosing their babies. I thought at least then they would understand. Now when I look back I wasn't thinking those things out of hate, it was hurt. I desperately wanted someone to understand me. I was called rude on a couple of occasions because I wasn't "happy" for them. When Zack's due date came around I left so alone and like no one cared. And then when his first birthday came around and I got one phone call from my mom I was devastated that this important day was forgotten by the ones we love. Now it has been 4 years and Jan. 27th is still just a normal day to everyone else. I hope you have people that will remember your daughter, but if you don't know you aren't alone. I am sorry that you had to go through this, but it is nice to know there are others. I hope this makes sense. Sorry that I rambled, there are just a lot of things inside me that have been waiting a long time to come out.

Libby - posted on 02/12/2009

Quoting Peggi:

Libby.......... your human.  Your also so very normal. I would be worried if you weren't bothered by a friend expecting a baby girl. Go buy that dress if you want. I know your baby will never get to wear it, but it might make you feel better physically doing something for her.  It will seem like everywhere you go there are pregnant women or baby girls. I thought every baby I saw looked dead. It hurts to see someone have what we lost. Blow off some steam...open the back door & scream your heart out, beat up a pillow. Holding it in is worse, it builds up to much.

The day after my baby died good friends had a baby girl. They couldn't understand why it was too hard for me to celebrate her first birthday, second birthday................It hurts, it's a reminder of what we lost, what i couldn't have no matter how hard I stomped my feet. Eventually it did get better, so gradual I can't even tell you how. People used to say it will get better, I hated that...but here I am & it is better...I like to remember the hugs & kisses............Oh........this always works...throw a pot at the wall!!!!

Well, don't think I'll go buy the dress.  I did buy her a Barbie for Christmas.  The real pretty holiday one.  I would've bought her a million Barbies when she grew up to be a little girl.  That did make me feel good to buy that for her for Christmas.  I also got her a holiday ornament with her named engraved on it for our tree.  I even bought her her own small Christmas tree and I can plant it if I want. 

I'm surprised your friends couldn't understand why it was hard for you.  My one girlfriend is due a week before I was due.  I haven't even really called and talked to her as much as I did before the Memorial.  That is very hard to know she is going to have her daughter when I should've had mine.  And even now, I would've been 30 weeks yesterday, my 2nd son was born at 30 weeks and he is a healthy 4 1/2 year old.  It kills me to know that at 20 weeks she didn't have any chance of survival but even 4 more weeks she could've had some sort of chance.  When I had problems with my son at 25 weeks they told me 50/50 chance.  I would've taken that chance with her.  Back then I thought it was too early for my son to be born then.  Of  course it is too early, but if you look at the alternative... WAY TOO EARLY....you'd take something that gives you some percentage of a chance. 

When my boys kept asking when is she going to be born we told them after our oldest's birthday, but before our youngest.  Gives them a timeframe they can understand.  Well, my oldest just turned 7 on Sunday.  The next thing we should be doing is waiting on our baby.  And I can't imagine how I'm going to feel when her due date comes around.  And then what about her first birthday/anniversary of her death?  Geesh.  This first year is dreadful.  Those sound like some pot throwing days to me!!

Peggi - posted on 02/11/2009

Libby.......... your human.  Your also so very normal. I would be worried if you weren't bothered by a friend expecting a baby girl. Go buy that dress if you want. I know your baby will never get to wear it, but it might make you feel better physically doing something for her.  It will seem like everywhere you go there are pregnant women or baby girls. I thought every baby I saw looked dead. It hurts to see someone have what we lost. Blow off some steam...open the back door & scream your heart out, beat up a pillow. Holding it in is worse, it builds up to much.

The day after my baby died good friends had a baby girl. They couldn't understand why it was too hard for me to celebrate her first birthday, second birthday................It hurts, it's a reminder of what we lost, what i couldn't have no matter how hard I stomped my feet. Eventually it did get better, so gradual I can't even tell you how. People used to say it will get better, I hated that...but here I am & it is better...I like to remember the hugs & kisses............Oh........this always works...throw a pot at the wall!!!!

Libby - posted on 02/11/2009

Well, I'm glad it's normal.  If this is what normal feels like it pretty much does suck!  I like how you said you felt betrayed...I think that's exactly the feeling I have.  It makes more sense then saying I feel angry.  I do feel awfully guilty for feeling this way.  I feel so bad for feeling jealous and mad.  It's totally against what God wants you to be.  And I don't WANT to be like this.  I guess all I want is my baby.  I want my girl.  I want my entire family.  I want answers if I can't have her.  I denied an autopsy, but maybe that would've made me feel better.  Or maybe I'm better off believing what I already know, that she was perfect.  I agree, the only thing that could make me feel better is if she was still in my stomach waiting to be born in April.  I cannot stand this. 

Angela - posted on 02/11/2009

I think its normal to feel how you do. My sister in law had her baby boy two months after my Nathan was stillborn. I prayed that he would be fine, but I felt betrayed in a way when he was born perfectly... then I felt so guilty afterwords for feeling that way. Its a horrible feeling to be jealous of other peoples babies and their joy... but I think its a natural response for a while after the loss of your angel.



I'm sorry that the doctors didn't have an answer for you. My doctors had a list of problems that were wrong with me, but they still couldn't pinpoint a single one. I don't know if knowing exactly what went wrong would make me feel any better. I think the only thing that could make me feel better would be if my baby had lived...

Libby - posted on 02/11/2009

Thanks Jen for posting.  I know what you mean about holding babies and seeing pregnant women.  It KILLS me inside.  I have pushed myself to do stuff though that I wasn't really ready to do.  I thought it would help with the whole "process" of things.  Like two weeks after my daughter died 3 people we knew had babies.  I was on freakin over load!  But the one I did go see in the hospital.  I didn't really want to, but I figured this will be the first baby I go see after my daughter died and I won't have to dread that first again.  Then at church when one of those other babies that were born came to church for the first time, his grandma was walking around with him and asked if I wanted to hold him.  It's really mixed emotions when it comes to that.  I felt like I didn't want to hold him but then again I did.  So, I did.  I didn't want to draw attention to myself and have people think "oh poor lady".  But she did email me a day later and apologized because she didn't know if she made me feel bad or not.  I told her it wasn't her fault I feel bad!  That's just life for me right now.  I also hate seeing pregnant people every where.  Oh my gosh, I felt like they were every where.  All of the people having babies and all of the pregnant people just feels like a cruel joke.  But I do realize I sorta took it out on my husband yesterday.  I was pretty cranky and I think it kind of rubbed off on him.  I even went to bed early b/c I thought I was just tired.  But I still woke up moody. 

The thoughts I was talking about that I had this morning, angry thoughts, I saw my friend's baby's dress and it crossed my mind about her baby dying.  I don't know why.  I don't want her baby to die.  I don't want anybody to have to feel this pain.  Why did my brain do that?  Just because I am unhappy doesn't mean I don't want other people to be happy.  But I guess I'm just not ready to see their happiness!  Has anyone thought that before?  I mean I know it's common to think why do they have their baby and I don't.  But to actually think about someone's baby dying, geesh, that's just not right!

Hey Wanda.  I know I have to let it out.  I just don't want to make a big deal of it.  I guess I feel it's more of a private thing than anything.  I can vent in front of the hubby, that's not a big deal.  But yesterday I was venting to unrelated things and I don't think he really understood it wasn't about those things at all.  Like I said, I thought getting my test results back would help me feel better.  Maybe get some answers, or atleast find out I'm healthy.  But it just really is torture knowing that my baby died for no reason.  Atleast that's what it feels like.  They can't find anything wrong with me when I'm not pregnant and they couldn't find anything wrong with me when I was...all they knew is I was bleeding and then she lost all of her fluid.  But no explanation! 

Thank goodness for this place though.  I have done a lot of healing just by sitting here and reading other people's stories.  It helps me to know I'm not alone, or I'm not crazy or whatever.  I just want to change the outcome of losing my daughter.  I know that is impossible, but this is so horrible to deal with. 

Wanda - posted on 02/11/2009

oh Libby whatever you call it let it out. You call it moody & I call it venting. It is part of the nightmare = a BIG percentage. Some mothers do not even have complete bodies to bury & if the horror is added to the cause of death here is another Big percentage of emotions. I am flat out cranky someone turned my sons funeral into a photo shoot, zoomed in on the next of kin teardrops & then posted them on her own FAMILY album without asking . Just because a person has a camera does not give them the right to infringe on a persons saddest of times. Maybe only a few of us know these dress up clothes were "funeral outfits", but they could have at least limited the crudeness by mailing family the printed photo. On a tearjerker day I might have to turn a photo just to remain in a room and not grieve 24/7. I actually fear private difficult moments into the furture where this person will zoom a camera in on me or my sons children (or siblings).

IT SUCKS @*&%$# I envy them that looks across the room ANY holiday and count all of her children= none missing. I am not ashamed of being jealous that in one corner of a room my son's COUSIN sits with his toddlers watching them open gifts.... this year and all the rest of days (forever ).....my son can't do this! Hunks of me are void with not a lot of options to wear off the waves of crap thoughts and urges to pace. So girl should we be there for each other in this group ( whenever needed) to pass out doses of wisdom when requests are for answers. There is not a mom here who would for a second wish one of us to bow in shame. There are uncountable ways of hurt showing signs of "how we changed" ( as people often remind us negatively). I have a monster of a issue that pushes my buttons .... it is in the shape of the unknowing trying to enforce my heart and beliefs >>>> TO FORGIVE this -and that -and the next thing. To FORGIVE .... or I am the loser dooming myself to wallow in saddness a lengthy time. I wish I had a person to vent with, but if all else fails I have gathered stones and tossed them in the creek one at a time pretending to cast away the ugliness. If I did not vent... I might have cuss words popping up uncontrolled . By the time I can recite the last words of a poem .... just let me cry... I am calm. Giggle, if there is something wrong with YOU? then I should probably start to seriously worry about me. Naw, I have many helping aides in books and friends. We will be OK.... a work in progress... thanks to Circle of Moms .... teamwork. HUGS!!!!

Jennifer - posted on 02/11/2009

You are grieving. We all deal with it differently, but we are all emotional. I couldn't even think of holding another baby for at least a year and I hated seeing a pregnant woman, especially if I was close to her. Our sadness and confusion often comes when we least expect it and for reasons totally unrelated, like your husband making decisions without you. Just hang in there and it will get better!