children with Bipolar disorder

Kristen - posted on 02/18/2009

It sounds like most of the tip offs to BP was violence. Did anyone notice anything other than violence that tipped them off that something was up? I have BP 2 and worry about my little girl sometimes. I wasn't diagnosed until a few years ago but looking back cannot remember a time that I was NOT bipolar. I would hate for her to suffer and make some of the mistakes I have made.

Julie - posted on 01/08/2009

Missy...Amen to that! I know that when we were going through diagnosis with my daughter we researched to death everything we could. Internet has some scary things out there. I loved NAMI, but it doesn't have a lot on pediatric conditions, BPKids.org helped. We picked our p-doc (a winner first time out) because he had a reputation for being a "conservative" with medication, and he will try multiple meds on low doses rather than huge amounts of one. And keeps trying to see if we can lower doses..periodically. We picked him because of his experience with pediatric bipolar disorder and because he was (at the time) President of the state board of Pediatric Psychiatry. There is so much information to get if you look really hard, (I know it is hard to do when we are dealing with out of control kids) But, I did find for my state, there is a list of every single p-doc and psychologist, if there are any complaints, when they obtained their liscense, how old they are, what their specialties are, where they went to school, etc. etc. etc. It was a great help for me when researching who I wanted my child to see. Also, I didn't go with who was on my medical insurance's "plan" our p-doc isn't, they don't have ANY Psychiatrists that are "Pediatric Psychiatrists" so I forced them to do a "single case agreement" which CAN be done, provided the doctor is willing. You will find most are. It does take persistence with the insurance carriers, and a lot of strong-arming..but it CAN be done. To get them to approve of a Psychiatrist at all, I called their mental health hotline EVERYTIME my daughter had a "meltdown" regardless of how minor and I forced their over the phone councelors to sit on the phone with me the entire time. 2 weeks of this, going several times a day..ranging from 20 minutes (shortest) to 5 HOURS (longest) and they were ready to approve whatever I wanted. They kept trying to get me to call 911, I told them NO, I don't need her to be admitted..I NEED for you to approve a psychiatrist. And then I gave them the name of the one I chose. It worked very well. I feel for all the other parents out there who are dealing with this disorder. It's difficult, and if you don't get enough support it is a living hell. For us, but for the children as well. I always try (although it is not always easy) to think of it from my daughter's perspective as well as my own. For her to be BP, with comorbids of ODD and OCD..to NEED to be in control but have no control at all at times..to be doing things that she can't seem to help, and not know why..it must be pretty scary. We are now trying Pet therapy to avoid additional medications, and to see if pet therapy can help with the depression she is experiencing and can't seem to shake since her Grandfather's death this past August. At first my daughter was extremely manic..up all hours etc.. But the last year has been more on the depressed side. It was scary last winter to have my 10 year old talk to people about how she wanted to die. It breaks my heart.

Missy - posted on 01/08/2009

Wow, I cant believe how many moms are out there with kids with BP.  My 15 y/o son was diagnosed with BP2 many years ago.  As a toddler, he had been diagnosed with ADD and ODD.  He was absolutely brutal to live with.  At age 13, he attempted suiside by hanging himself in his closet with a cable wire...luckily I caught him in the act and had him transported via ambulance to a local hospital where he spent a week in the pediatric psychology department for a week, and then continued his treatment in the adolescent behavioral treatment facility on the hospital grounds.  He has had his medication changed several times (he's been through almost every psyc-drug out there) and its been tweeked and tweeked again and again.  We have switched p-docs several times because we just felt they we not correctly dealing with our son's condition correctly.  Thankfully, we have finally found a great p-doc that has found the correct mix of meds that have made my son "my son" again.

I highly suggest to those who are new with the whole bipolar thing is to do as much research as possible.  Learn this disorder inside and out.  Also familiarize yourself with the medications and the side effects, because some medications can cause more problems and thats not what you or your child need.  Choose your psychiatrists and psycotherapists wisely...do research on them as well as interview them.  Make sure that they are trained and have lots of experience dealing with adolescence with bipolar.  Also, make sure that your p-doc does not over medicate your child!  This happens all too often.  Use your schools resources to every extent that you can.

Bipolar disorder can be a very scary issue.  But as long as you educate yourself and stay on top of things, you should be fine.

Missy

Wendy - posted on 01/08/2009

There are 3 types of ADHD; Hyperactive, Inattentive and Combined. My son is combined and my daughter is inattentive.

Amanda - posted on 01/08/2009

Quoting Janette:

yes. my son 11 has had some vauge diagnosis ADHD, ODD, mood disorder NOS. but after he had a meltdown at school and hit the sub and 8 students in a frenzy, the school psycologist and psyciatrist both agreed that he probably had bipolar disorder. i just had him evaluated again by a psycologist outside of the school setting. i'm waiting to get the results from that. i also have a daughter that is dyslexic and by suprize to me when i had her diagnosed at scottish rite she is ADHD too. it's just compared to her brother she did'nt seem hyper to me.

i'm so glad to find a place to be able to talk with other moms about this. i't is a relief to have a place to go to when i don't know where else to turn.

I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT I AM AN ADULT WITH BIPOLAR, DYSLEXIA AND ADHD. AND I WAS TOLD THAT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE HYPER TO HAVE ADHD. ANY QUESTIONS I AM MORE THAN WILLING TO HELP.

Emily - posted on 12/24/2008

My 12 year old stepdaughter has Bipolar Disorder. She has been on Risperidal and another med at the same time and was just prescribed Abilify. She doesn't like taking meds and therefore doesn't half the time, so we have to force her to. That is the part that drives me the craziest - that she can't realize that she has to take the meds to make her feel better.. and that we have to watch her nightly to make sure she does.

Erin - posted on 12/17/2008

Well, I think we are coming to a pint where Matthew may need to go into residential treatment. Even medicated he has been suspended from riding the bus for the rest of the school year, suspended from school for the rest of this week, and has had to be picked up early from school Wed, and Thur last week, stayed home with me Fri, sent home early Mon this week. Both my husband and I are in danger of losing our jobs, and even if that were not a factor, one of us misses several hours of work each week dealing with his issues. If he can't function at school he will fail the 5th grade. He is already one year behind, and failing 5th grade would put him in the same grade as his sister who is 2 years younger than him. That would not be good for him emotionally.



ANyone ever deal with residential treatment? Any thoughts?

Daisy - posted on 12/02/2008

WOW! I must say the only person Tyler has ever threatened to kill was me. I can't imagine him going after our other children. Has your daughter ever been hospitalized?

Julie - posted on 12/02/2008

Hi Nicky & Daisy



I first took my daughter when she was 6. She was always strong willed and um.. different but when I was pregnant with my youngest she "decided" that we had to have a boy. The day we found out that the baby was another girl she scared us by very calmly looking at us and saying "Fine...I'll wait until you're asleep and kill it". Then we had an incident where she wanted her sister (4 at the time) to "shut up" and..sister WAS provoking..however not enough for this. They share a room (no choice there) and younger was sent to bed because of the provoking and teasing. My BP daughter got mad because she continued to pester so she climbed on the bed, put the pillow over her face, kneeled on top of her, and held the pillow down. I came in because it was "too quiet" and found this. Scared the crap out of me. I hauled her to the ped. and he said that she had very definate ODD traits and recommended therapy. My dh was uncomfortable with it then..said I was hormonal and overreacting. When baby was born she loved her to bits (she was a christmas baby so she saw baby as a present) But things got worse and worse..the rages and tantrums etc. Until we became prisoners in our home and a slave to her moods. So..after constant fights between me & dh and other things we went to a psychologist. She took 5 weeks to come back with a positive diagnosis for ODD and then after 8 months recommended a pyschiatrist who specialized in Bipolar (mostly due to family history on my end) We had the mood disorder diagnosis within 1 month of seeing the psychiatrist (weekly). Bipolar specifically after a couple of months. We started parent counceling within 6 weeks of starting with the psychiatrist (his recommendation). We were not sold on the idea of medicating either, but for us it was the right thing to do..for my daughter. We had to think of it as..if she had asthma we wouldn't deny her breathing treatments, if she had diabetes, we wouldn't deny insulin..This is no different. She has responded pretty well to treatment..both counceling and pharmacological. However she is not in a good place right now..pretty low with sporadic "up" periods. I know part of it is her age..11 is a very emotional time even for a normal girl..but with her, and with the holidays (we lost my father in law whom was very close to all his grandkids..this summer right before school started) Anyhow..Thanksgiving was pretty hard for us all..but I know it hit her as well. We still go in for weekly therapy, and see the psychiatrist every month to 6 weeks depending on where she is. It's hard..but I try to focus on the positives as well. She is super smart, she is very artistic and she is super talented in both areas..has a very broad "out of the box" thought process and a lot of that is because she can use her brain differently than other "normal" children. So..I do try (as my husband is trying to calm her down right now while I have a 'break') to think of the positives..while dealing with the drawbacks.

Daisy - posted on 12/02/2008

That is about the age I took my son to first doctor. We were concerned about him going to preschool. He acted out at babysitters (two had quit) so we knew it wasn't just us.

Nikki - posted on 12/02/2008

to all of you when did you decide that your child needed help around what age?????Im having issues with my 4 yr old daughter

Erin - posted on 12/02/2008

I think the comment that was made by one boss about me possibly losing my job was made in a moment of frustration. They are being really good right now.

Sheila - posted on 12/01/2008

My son is 6 and has BD and ADHD. We've known that he was different pretty much since infancy, and he was diagnosed as ADHD around age 3. He was diagnosed as bipolar this past year. We had the benefit of knowing what to look for, as my husband also has BD and ADHD. Our daughter seems fine.



I know how difficult it is to deal with multiple family members with mental illness. My heart goes out to you. If you haven't already done so, find a really good psychiatrist who understands BD and especially early onset BD. My son has been stablized and is doing really well. Because my husband went so long without the proper treatment, I can't say the same for him. Early intervention is so important.

Julie - posted on 12/01/2008

That really sucks Erin. Does your state have it's own program? I know that Oregon does and it has much MUCH more lienient guidelines. You would think with a small company they would be more compassionate..is there a way you could part time work from home?

Erin - posted on 12/01/2008

There are only 3 employees at my work, therefore FMLA does not apply. I am the bookkeeper/HR person at our store, so I have to know about it. We are much too small for FMLA.

Julie - posted on 12/01/2008

Erin, RE: loosing your job, I hope that you realize that this is an illness and is covered under FMLA. Have the doctor fill out paperwork for "intermittent" FMLA. That way regardless of the time off work you can't be fired for it or penalized in any way shape or form. Have it backdated if possible for protection. I had to use a lot of FMLA (and in Oregon they have OFLA so we used that as well) when I was working. Definately have the paperwork done to protect yourself. Also that means if the job does terminate you for attendance with FMLA they can be sued for discrimination. Remember that Bipolar is covered under the ADA.

Nichole - posted on 12/01/2008

I completely understand Mary, And beyond being isolated in my tiny town. I play the role of a single mom 5 days out of the week. My son is 8 years old and was evaluated and diagnosed a little over a year ago as living with bipolar disorder and ADHD. He is what they define as a rapid-cycling manic bipolar. His med schedule is horrendous (almost worse than my own, lol). The child that stands before me today does not even resembles the child from a year ago. We still work with a psychatrist, a psychologist, and a behavioral specialist but he's making vast improvements. I'm sure everyone here has already told you that finding the drug/drugs that help your child is only part of it. Also, we all understand the frustation until you do. But know that medication is only a small piece to giving your child the best future you can. Make sure you follow up with your child's educational needs and changes, their diet, and continued health/mental health observation and assistance as needed. And just so you know, the drug mixture that has worked so well for my son is a mix of Daytrana, Risperdal, and Clonidine.

My daughter on the other hand needs no medication, but she was born Moderately Mentally Retarded.

Erin - posted on 12/01/2008

We seem to have reached a good dosing with Matt's Depakote. He is not falling asleep during the day and seems more like himself, minus the anger. YEAH!

Erin - posted on 11/21/2008

anyone have a child on SSDI? My husband and I talked about this a long time ago when we were dealing with 3 wiith either ADD or ADHD. Now with everything that is going on with Matthew and the fear of losing my job, I am wondering if it is something I should consider.

Daisy - posted on 11/21/2008

Erin, you are not alone in getting that "why aren't you doing more for your child" routine from people who don't know you or your child well enough to even comment on it. Hang in there, as long and you and your son know you are doing everything you can it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. It's hard to do everything and be everything all the time, it sounds like you are doing the best you can with the information you've been given and what you've learned on your own. Don't let one ignorant person get to you too much.

Erin - posted on 11/21/2008

We are so new to this. I need to vent a minute.



Monday Matthew was excessively lethargic, so I again took him to the er, and had his bloodwork done. His Depakote level was not toxic, but was higher than it should be. The doctor told me to only give him half as much at bedtime. Tuesday Matthew's psychologist went to see him at school. He called me to say Matthew was lethargic, and I explained what happened Monday. He went on to say that this really needs to be watched and maybe the meds he is on are not right for him, and basically made it sound like I was not doing my job, and not paying attention to what could be wrong with Matthew, and did not realize how dangerous the meds are.



I was so mad. First of all, I have 5 kids and since the begining of October my life has pretty much revolved around Matthew. The doctors at the hospital never gave me information about the depakote, I looked it up and that is how I knew to get the bloodwork for his levels done. I have missed so much work due to Matthew's issues lately that I am on the brink of losing my job. I called the principal and talked to him about Matthew on Tuesday and told him what the psychologist said and his response was to ignore it, because the people who have been around this whole time know exactly how much I am doing and wonder how I am still surviving myself. So, I calmed down and called the prescribing physician whose nurse told me to not give the depakote in the morning anymore, only at night. Well, we are doing every other night right now, and he is still lethargic. I think he won't get any this weekend so we can bring his level down and then start nightime only doses.



But, how dare somebody who has only seen Matthew twice in 2 months tell me that I am not doing everything I can for him.



Do any of you get people like this?

Daisy - posted on 11/21/2008

My son will be 11 in a couple of weeks. The first time I noticed something was different about him was when he was 2 yrs old, we were leaving the park, he didn't want to go, I put him in his car seat (a big struggle) and he bit me. It hit me that kids get upset, but to bite me because we were leaving the park..... When he started preschool just before he turned 4 I would go sit in for an hour or so before I went to work to help deal with his mood swings when he would have them. For Christmas that year the teacher gave presents out, he didn't get what he wanted so he started screaming, kicking, and throwing things. I removed him from the classroom as he was wailing around, and never took him back. We took him to a very good clinic nearby and he was diagnosed with ADHD. We tried behavior modification, but he was still cloths lining kids, hitting me, throwing things when he was angry, and he expected toys every time he was good. After much arguement and prayer we decided to put him on medication. He started on a low dose of Adderall, then added a small dosage of risperdal because his anger out bursts were leaving me with scars. He got accepted to the local Head start program due to his behavior issues and was immediately started on an IEP. He used to wrap himself around the leg of desks in his classroom refusing to go to the special ed room, or go with the principle. He got suspended from school twice, both times for hitting teachers. In kindergarten we were able to switch him to Strattera instead of Adderall, which helped him in school. As he grew and got stronger it got harder for me to hold him down or force him into his room so he could calm down. After an especially bad episode of him hitting, kicking, screaming, wailing around, I went into my room and just started bawling uncontrollably, he came in crying and said "I don't want to grow up like this". After that I did whatever I could, we went to the doctors office, increased his risperdal again, increased his Strattera again (it kills me everytime we increase meds). One more doctor change later, we found our current doctor and after MUCH prayer, tears and self doubt we put him on lithium also. Tyler no longer breaks windows, he hasn't hit me in OVER a year, no more punching walls or threatening to kill me. He doesn't hit his brothers, his teacher, no more kicking furniture or breaking things. Life is not perfect, but life is managable now. I can see the struggle he still has at times deciding if he is going to hit me or not, but he holds it in and can make it to his room by himself to calm down. My biggest fear is when he is 30 or 40 years old and starting to have medical issues due to all the medication he takes. Will I be able to look him in the eye and tell him I did the best I could, I made sure he was on the minimum dosage, and the medications with the least side effects. Lithium is some serious stuff, 8-10 years on it, and kidney damage starts to show. He's already one year into that. How do we as parents know where the balance between medication and "normal" family life is? I fight with myself and my ex husband about this all the time. I want him to grow up to be the best man he can be, healthy, happy, able to cope with life. Anyone else have these questions? My husband is a truck driver gone all week, my son spends 65% of his time w/ me and 35% with his dad, I have a 5 year old and our 11 year old stepson lives with us full time also. I am a full time student, the boys' den mother, soccer coach, tball coach, on the PTA at two schools, and my stepson is also ADD (we also didn't think he had issues because compared to Tyler he's "normal").
I can happily say that I am no longer at the end of my rope, I can finally see a possible good future for my son, but it's hard to make these decisions, and what if I'm making the wrong ones? Lately I've noticed that I'm very detached from my children, I don't get as involved in what they are doing when we are home, sometimes I feel that if they are being good, not fighting, not kicking, hitting, yelling, I need to just let them be. We used to have game night, movie night, pizza night, I do that sometimes, but anymore when we are home I go do my thing and don't take the time to do things with them when I can help it. How do you mothers deal with these issues in your own emotional state? I have Tyler better controlled now, how do I get myself to a good place to?

Wendy - posted on 11/19/2008

Are you doing any counseling? Sounds like you're carrying a heavy load.

Julie - posted on 11/19/2008

Hi I have an 11 year old daughter who was diagnosed with Bipolar 2 years ago, she has the comorbids of ODD & OCD which makes things um.."fun". We have gotten to a basically stable place with medication, I noticed that a few of you have been struggling with ODD, has anyone elses child been placed on Amantadine? It's labeled use is for parkinsons & flu, but it has been wonderful for her with her cognative flexibility issues, which cause the problems with authority. She also takes abilify & lamictal. We started with seroquel until she had stabalized and then weaned her off that and onto the abilify & lamictal. She also takes adderall on occasion when she is going to be in a situation that has a high possibility of overwhelming her (aka loud birthday parties, or plays at school anything loud or chaotic) These do seem to help, but not on their own, we go in for weekly therapy appointments and I have meetings with her teacher who is amazing and uses the Love & Logic form of discipline for her class...which is fortunate, and has also done the seminars for "The Explosive Child" which is a book I swear by, it has been a tremendous help for us in helping to recognize the behaviors and avert meltdowns when possible. By no means are they gone, but it helps my husband and I remain calmer as not to escalate the situation, and also to "head off" problems before they start. Also, when your children were diganosed, did they offer any sort of parent counceling or "coaching" to help deal with the stresses and learn new forms of parenting these special children? My husband & I went from fighting constantly over how to handle the "issues" our daughter had to being on the same page and supporting each other..we went biweekly for 6 months and it was the best thing we could have done.

Janette - posted on 11/17/2008

what type of meds do they have him on? is it to treat ADHD? his behavior sound really familliar to me. have you read any books on bipolar children? does his doc know about the mood and agressive issues? one thing besides seroqel that the doc prescribed for my son was blood pressure medicine, for agression. that seemed to help tremendously.he's not as quick to get angry & it dosent last as long as before. but always hyper!!!!

Nicola - posted on 11/17/2008

Hi, im new to this so not sure wat to do lol.
My son is 9 and was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD 18 months ago he as been on medication 12 months now which helps him. He is very hypo but also really moody and aggressive to others. The last week he as been really emotional and seems depressed but still hypo as usual, im finding this hard to deal with as is mood changes by the minute.

Janette - posted on 11/16/2008

nope. i asked my freinds when i got home if they thought it sounded right and one of them said " yeah she's like a little bird ". after that i watched her and realized the doctor was right. compared to he brother she my not be hyperactive but compared to other girls her age she is. i just did'nt notice. furthermore i've also learned that 60 percent of kids with dyslexia are also ADHD. looking back when i filled out the extensive evaluation forms for scottish rite i did notice a pattern with the teachers notes about her exsessive activity and lack of attention but at the time i just chalked it up to the fact that she was so much younger than all of the kids in her class and time would remedy the situation. she and her brother are very different. hes can't just walk he has to hop, skip, roll, twirl. she's mostly wiggly and overly talkative for a 12 year old

Erin - posted on 11/16/2008

Yes, ADHD seems much more mild when compared with bipolar. Although I wonder if maybe there was an error and your daughter just has ADD, like my older son. There is definitely no hyper to him.

Janette - posted on 11/16/2008

yes. my son 11 has had some vauge diagnosis ADHD, ODD, mood disorder NOS. but after he had a meltdown at school and hit the sub and 8 students in a frenzy, the school psycologist and psyciatrist both agreed that he probably had bipolar disorder. i just had him evaluated again by a psycologist outside of the school setting. i'm waiting to get the results from that. i also have a daughter that is dyslexic and by suprize to me when i had her diagnosed at scottish rite she is ADHD too. it's just compared to her brother she did'nt seem hyper to me.



i'm so glad to find a place to be able to talk with other moms about this. i't is a relief to have a place to go to when i don't know where else to turn.

Mary - posted on 11/16/2008

Sounds good Erin! I'm in Michigan - it's after 3 am here, so I'm signing off!

Erin - posted on 11/15/2008

I have a great church here. I have friends who babysat so hubby could still work while I went and visited our son. A great friend of mine drove me to a one hour counseling session at he hospital, like I said an hour away, and a 2 hour visit immediately following the counseling session, even though she couldn't go in. The school here is working very hard with my son and slowly integrating him back into the classroom. The nurse is now aware of signs to watch for when looking for his depakote level to be on the rise, and calls me if she thinks anything is wrong. I am exhausted, but I am only at the start of this part of the journey. Honestly it has made my son and I closer because I spend s lot of time with him alone now,as we are learning that he deals better one-on-one, rather than having all 4 siblings around. I forgot to mention that I have 2 others with no diagnosed disorders. My hubby also has adult add and a mood disorder that the doctor never named, just put him on depakote a couple years ago, but never followed up on it. Hubby is working on getting more information on that now that our son has been diagnosed.



Add to everything that I have asthma and with the weather change I now have severe bronchitis, I could lay down and sleep for 3 days and still be tired.

Mary - posted on 11/15/2008

Erin - so you must be as exhausted and spent as I am.............. this has been going on for us since my daughter was 2. She too has been hospitalized after repeated threats to kill us a couple of years ago, coupled with very violent aggression, trying to strangle the puppy and kicking me in the head..... I'm sure you know the story..... Do you have a supportive helpful network of family and friends? I hope you do. We are completely isolated............ It's very hard without support, relief.

Erin - posted on 11/15/2008

My 11 year old son has juvenile bipolar disorder and ADHD. It is often misdiagnosed as ADHD, because it does not follow the pattern of adult bipolar disorder. My son was hospitalized from 10/8/08-10/16/08 and then again from 10/22/08-10/30/08 at a psychiatric hospital an hour from me. He had a complete melt down and attemtpted to hurt other students, teachers and even the principal at his school, that is why he went the first time. At that time they made some med adjustments and increase his anger meds. A week later he attacked a boy at the YMCA, so returned to the hospital where they put him on Depakote to stabilize his moods. Within a week of being home he had a toxic level of Depakote in his system. Bipolar Disorder is scary. Not just what happens when the person is unmedicated, but what can happen with the meds too.



I now must set alarms and make sure that my son receives his depakote no more than 30 minutes after his scheduled time. His doctor has told me that a missed dose is better than too high a level in his system. So, I get up at 6:25 am on the weekends, wake him up and give him his meds, then we both go back to sleep. Sunday nights I have to interupt his church activities to give him his meds. We decided that 6:30 was best because week days he takes his morning dose at 6:30am. I even give him his meds in the middle of his cub scout meeting.



The stress of dealing with his issues is high enough, bit I also have a 13 year old son with ADD and another disorder I can't recall the name, but basically it has to do with him and an issue with authority. my 7 year old has ADHD and ODD, but I wonder about the ODD, because he is not medicated, and is inconsistant in his opposition.