Nobody stinking breastfeeds!

Crystal - posted on 02/27/2009

Yea, my old best friend actually told me when we talked not long after she'd quit that she was so glad she wasn't breastfeeding because her baby actually slept through the night and mine didn't. All I could think of was that was what babies are supposed to do but I kept my mouth shut. She didn't even bother trying with her new baby because formula worked so well with her 1st one. Ugh.

Brenda - posted on 02/26/2009

Same here, Crystal.  I guess the problem is I know more women who say, Well we tried but it just didn't work out, or it just wasn't for me, or something else (not medical related) and had more than a few tell me, Oh the bottle's so much easier, I don't know why anyone would bother breastfeeding, its such an inconveinence.  And even when talking to young women who I've worked with, without kids yet, more often than not, breastfeeding is an anomoly.  Most often they talk of the bottles they're going to buy and when you mention breast they look at you like you've got two heads.... 

In fact, before I had my first, the only way I even considered breast feeding was because when I went to my childbirthing classes they encouraged mom's to do it and explained the health benefits for mom and baby.  My mother in law was like, "Oh I didn't do that, the bottle was good enough for my kids."  She was supportive, but she never even considered it with her children.  My own mother nearly starved my sister trying to nurse until they figured out she just didn't produce milk, so she didn't even try with me.  Until then, I'd never really been encouraged or anything.  Since then, I've only ever seen one woman nurse in public, and that was after my first child was born.

I guess the statistics are a good thing, but to be honest I just haven't seen that, at least where I live.  Both times I've been on WIC I've been treated like it was so awesome I was breastfeeding, and they work SO hard in the areas I've lived in to try to increase breastfeeding.  (conservative midwest)  I mean, they approach it expecting that you're going to say you aren't breastfeeding.  I think even when I took my childbirth class, only about 40 percent of the women were planning on trying to breastfeed, and who knows how many stuck with it.  I go in a couple weeks for my refresher at this new hospital, so we'll see if any second time moms are going to breastfeed in that class.

Crystal - posted on 02/26/2009

In my own peer group I don't know many mom's I went to school with who actually made
a valid attempt to breastfeed. Even my old best friend tried for 3 days and gave up
because her mom told her she should.

Brenda - posted on 02/26/2009

Well, yeah, that's the statistics, but the PERCEPTION of a lot of women in the category that don't receive WIC I think is that.  It was brought up on another board where we were talking about it and it makes sense.  There' s no stats for it (and it isn't true) but women in a middle/high income situation may feel "above" it for one reason or another (and not only in the US, most the industrialized world, in particular the lady that was talking about it was from England).  Its not a fact, just a perception that would be enough for some women to not even try.  *shrugs*  Maybe true, maybe not. 

I still think the biggest thing that we battle is perception all the way around.  Things have gotten a lot better (thus the breastfeeding numbers going up thanks to the awesome people at WIC and other hospitals), but there is a lot of lack of support for breast past six months and still a lot of hostility for nursing in public (in some areas, not all).

Brenda - posted on 02/26/2009

Well, yeah, that's the statistics, but the PERCEPTION of a lot of women in the category that don't receive WIC I think is that.  It was brought up on another board where we were talking about it and it makes sense.  There' s no stats for it (and it isn't true) but women in a middle/high income situation may feel "above" it for one reason or another (and not only in the US, most the industrialized world, in particular the lady that was talking about it was from England).  Its not a fact, just a perception that would be enough for some women to not even try.  *shrugs*  Maybe true, maybe not. 

I still think the biggest thing that we battle is perception all the way around.  Things have gotten a lot better (thus the breastfeeding numbers going up thanks to the awesome people at WIC and other hospitals), but there is a lot of lack of support for breast past six months and still a lot of hostility for nursing in public (in some areas, not all).

Elizabeth - posted on 02/26/2009

I guess I don't understand where the impression is coming from that most moms don't try to breastfeed? In 2005, 74% of US moms were breastfeeding in the early postpartum period and 42% were still bfing at 6 months. Now, the 6 month (and 12 month rates, which are about 21%) are well short of ideal, but hardly evidence of societal-wide ignorance.

And, Brenda, I think you've got your ideas backwards about socioeconomic status. Low SES women (who live at or below poverty status) are by far less likely to initiate bfing (though 67% of them do) and fall off quickly 36% still bfing at 6 months. Women at 3.5 times the poverty level initiate at 89% and over half of them are still bfing at 6 months. Receiving WIC is a big risk factor for not bfing (only 68% start, and only 34% are still going at 6 months. African-American women have the worst rates-- they are 58%, 25%, and 12% at birth, 6, and 12 months. (All stats from CDC.)

Ok, so after all those boring statistics, I just have to say, take heart, ladies. By far, most of us moms ARE at least trying bfing, and obviously the biggest benefit is in the first few weeks. So, keep writing your legislators, pushing for better policies at work, and encouraging other moms and we will get there!!!! :-)

Brenda - posted on 02/25/2009

I still think it goes back to the social taboos that have been built around breastfeeding.  Most women honestly don't want to try because they've never known anyone that did, and they've been trained by our society to believe in the sexualization of the breast.  The feel that if they breast feed, that the crazy people who say women get sick sexual satisfaction from breastfeeding (some even go as far as getting women who breastfed to say that the reason they breastfed is because they had orgasms).  Sometimes the hospitals just toss a bottle into an infantas mouth and once the mother tries to breastfeed she doesn't have any luck.  But honestly, I think it comes down to the fact that for so long women have been made uncomfortable about their bodies, and when it comes to their breasts they've become objects of no other function than man's pleasures.  Just perusing the horrible stories of breastfeeding mothers trying to nurse in public reminds me how far we have to go.  I think a lot of women are honestly afraid of the public opinion of other people thinking that if you breastfeed you're poor because if you weren't poor you'd buy formula.  It is the conception that somehow science supercedes nature at all turns and that only the lower classes or those of low economic status resort to the "babaric" ritual of breastfeeding.

There are so many reasons, and so few are real reasons.  Most I honestly believe have to do with society pressuring women to conform to a certain stereotype.  A woman has a baby.  She bottle feeds baby.  She weans baby before one year.  She potty trains before two years.  That's the way their parents did it.  That's the way their friends did it.  That's the way they feel they have to do it.  We end of with a society that puts taboos on sex to start with, and then if a woman wants to use her breast for nature's intention, she's asked to sit in a dark room and scorned if she nurses for longer than six months.  And if she refuses to remove herself from polite society to feed her child, she's considered a harlot or a sick individual.  A lot of women would do just about anything to avoid those kinds of confrontations.

Johnny - posted on 02/25/2009

I'm not sure that people on here are so much passing judgement on individuals that do not breastfeed as they are expressing concern about the generally dismal rates of breastfeeding in North America.  It is a public health concern. The WHO, AAP, and the CPA are some of the major organizations that are speaking out about the problems caused by too few children being breastfed.  Of course there are many situations in which formula is required, and I do not think anyone has issue with that.  However, the rates of formula feeding are astronomically higher than the actual rates of breastfeeding issues.  Be those problems PPD, PCOS, tongue tie, etc... they don't add up to explain why there are so many infants not being breastfed.  I do worry about what others are doing. For the same reasons that I worry when huge numbers of people smoke, or severely overeat, or speed.  It effects our general quality of life & the health standards of our nations.  I believe that babies that are UNNECESSARILY fed formula are being exposed to increased health risks for no good reason.  Many people do need to feed their infants formula, and thus are doing the absolute best for their children.  Obviously a slightly increased risk of type 2 diabetes later in life in no way compares to infant starvation, severe PPD in a mom, excessive nipple pain, or the myriad of other legitimate reasons for formula feeding.  But why do people choose to risk their childrens health and our collective futures when they can choose a medically and statistically supported superior product? 

Jessica - posted on 02/25/2009

Basically I think that none of you know everyone else's personal situation and have no place to pass judgement. You all should be proud that you did what was right for your child and don't worry about anyone else.

I do believe in many natural parenting ideas but I don't get mad at those who don't.

I personally pumped colostrum for my son and gave it to him in a bottle and after a week or so I quit. I don't feel guilty at all and my son have been extreamly healthy and robust his whole life. Also he has absolutely no problem growing he is right outside the growth curve for everything.

Do I think that I didn't give my child the absolute best food there is for him out there? Sure

But at the same time I gave him the best of me as a mother and worked through my personal situation and for that I am thankful that he didn't get the breast.

Brenda - posted on 02/24/2009

I think it is just a matter of common courtesey when approaching the subject.  Ladies, everyone gets judgmental when they're beliefs are assulted.  I think it is all the matter of how we approach the situation.  I know that sometimes it is so hard to feel sometimes for it but it is all about the choice that we make for our children.  I don't agree with mom's jumping down another mom's throat for bottle feeding or NOT bottle feeding.  It happens both ways.

I tried to console a woman on another board a while back who got told by a pro stay at home mom that she was going to ruin her child for life because she was going back to work.  In the same vein I've seen women asking about pumping advice be attacked by women who jump their case about the fact that pumping is wrong and there's no reason for doing it. (To the extreme one woman swore pumping would ruin her nipples for life).

I guess I try to find a happy medium.  There are women out there that choose bottle because they want an easy answer, there other others that choose it for different reasons, like myself.  Some babies don't take to a nipple well, and women a lot of times don't have a support system in place to help them along with it.  We've all discussed the pro breastfeeding hosptials that would rather stick a bottle in the baby's mouth than try to help the mom along. 

In the end, openly accusing a woman of being selfish isn't going to help matters except give them a sour taste in their mouth for pro breastfeeding women.  Like I said, there are women that are extremely sensitive about it (I was for a long time since I felt like I failed my child) because they feel guilt about not breastfeeding.  It is true, I think some women don't think about the benefits and they choose it for what more natural parents would consider "selfish" purposes.  And sometimes because they've been exposed to women that are condescending they believe all pro brestfeeders are like that.

I've encountered the similar thing because I wasn't able to have a natural birth, I've never been openly attacked for it, but I have felt belittled by some natural moms that respond after something I've said about having used meds.

Sharon - posted on 02/24/2009

I love the idea about the boob wrapping paper!  Awesome. 

Tracie - posted on 02/24/2009

I totally agree with you and I am amazed at how many women say that bottle feeding is easier! LOL!



I think part of the problem stems from our lack of support. My mother didn't breastfeed and so when I chose to bf my 4 kids, she wasn't someone I could go to for support. We have a whole generation of women who were taught that formula was better for their babies. My mom tried hard to help but when the going got tough (and it did sometimes) she would suggest a bottle.



I'm thrilled that I was able to bf all of my kids. I went longer with each one and I love that women in our play group bf freely so that my youngest(only girl) gets to see how babies are fed. Kwim?



I hope that by more and more of us bfing our babies and help more mom's out there by supporting them, we can give our children that gift.

Patricia - posted on 02/24/2009

I absolutely love the wrapping paper idea.

And agree with you on a lot of the points you're making. Honestly, it has to do a lot with the American culture and the lack of curiosity when it comes to natural things. Some people still see BFing as "obscene" and will ask a mom to excuse herself to a restroom, to leave a restaurant/store, people look away in embarrasments and others just cannot comprehend the concept of nursing your baby. I have never used a breastfeeding cover and I'm not the "dancing naked" kinda gal, but people need to se more people breastfeeding in public. Question why the formula companies send free samples (answer: to get your money), why the hospital gives you formula or why on god's beautiful earth women are still acting like robots and following the packs instead of pulling out their voices and marching to nature's drum.  If your body grew that baby, it sure as hell is capable of continuing to nourish OUTSIDE the womb. C-section or not. I think women just give up. Nobody tells them breastfed children are more emotionally connected to their parents, smarter and leaner as they grow or that formula is like eating a tv dinner every meal... something they probably wouldn't do themselves. Grr... I'm a breastfeeding advocate. I could go all day. DARE TO BREASTFEED!!! IT'S THE BEST!

Ashley - posted on 02/24/2009

Crystal--I'm not trying to tell you to watch what you say, I think you were perfectly right to share your opinion. I was just sharing my opinion too. I think we all like each other enough at this point that it's an okay thing to do.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's situation though, that's really frustrating.

Crystal - posted on 02/24/2009

Oh and just a disclaimer, sorry if I sound bitchy but we just found out that my husband, who just came home from Iraq in November, will probably be deploying to Afghanistan in a couple of months.

I'm just a little annoyed.

Crystal - posted on 02/24/2009

Elizabeth, it's situations like yours where I would understand quitting. I had to feed my oldest son formula at 9 months old because I lost my milk but I didn't feel guilty about it, he had to be fed somehow. I should revise my statement, because I do actually feel it's selfish if you are perfectly capable of breastfeeding, physically and mentally, and you don't. It's the women who want to be able to go out and drink on the weekends, or pass their babies off for weekends so they can't breastfeed, or the ones who just want to get to their lives before they had babies that upset me. Ones who try their hardest to breastfeed and just can't did their best and that's awesome.

I had PPD, I had mastitis, I've gone through thrush, over and over and over again because for some reason one of us kept it and it wouldn't go away, but even through all that I managed to breastfeed. I know many women who can breastfeed and work, who have all kinds of latch problems and make it through. Some women do just give up too easily.

I have never gotten support from a mom who formula fed, while I have supported mom's who have.

I don't bash, I try and listen with an open mind why a woman hasn't breastfed, or had to switch. I just cannot in good conscience support someone who does stops for selfish, or unfounded reasons. When you're mentally used up, and physically not capable is one thing, just going, eh, it's gross is just ignorance in my opinion. I have this right to my opinion and I thought that in a board like this one we could feel comfortable sharing our opinions, I don't tell things like this to women on other boards where they mostly formula feed because I my opinion wouldn't matter and would just piss people off, but here, I thought it would be supported, but I guess not.

I give facts to women who ask, and nothing more, and yet I get flamed, and even here we're being told to watch what we say.....because we might offend someone. Say anything you want about how feeding formula to your kid is not as good and I won't feel offended because I don't feel guilty about giving my oldest son formula.

Ashley - posted on 02/24/2009

I agree with Elizabeth.

Frankly, it's every mother's right to refuse to breastfeed. After giving ourselves over ourselves wholly to this little being for the nine (ten) months we were pregnant (hopefully...), sometimes it is just too damn much to ask. Breastmilk is better, yes. But so is having a good relationship with your baby. And if you're having such a difficult time with nursing (whether or not you have the support you need) that you're contemplating suicide, like Elizabeth, having thoughts of harming yourself or your baby, well then don't you think at that point that there might be some different choices that really are healthier for the duo?

I've breastfed exclusively because it's something I wholeheartedly desired. And honestly, I've had an extremely easy time of it. DD's latch was spot-on the very first time I held her, and even though it hurt quite a bit during the first two weeks while my boobs acclimated, it's been smooth sailing. I had severe, near-suicidal depression throughout the duration of my pregnancy, but apparently breastfeeding hormones do me good--it's the happiest I've ever been. Hormones effect everyone differently, though, and if these hormones were making me down...you'd better believe it'd be better for me to switch to formula than to begin to hate/resent/despise my baby.

I feel like the thread started off as aggravation that there isn't more women around breastfeeding to give us a nice normal culture, and definitely headed off a different path. Let's not lose sight of the fact that in demanding breastfeeding rights, we are demanding women's rights. Let's not lose sight of the fact that the number one group of people to cut down breastfeeding moms are other moms.
We have to start supporting ALL moms if we want ALL moms to support us!

Elizabeth - posted on 02/24/2009

Wow... if message boards grow best on judgementalism, then this one will be a whopper! Guys, seriously, let's give each other a break. Until you've walked a mile in another woman's shoes, how can you judge her? Breastmilk is best for most babies, but we make compromises all the time. It would also be safer if you never put your baby in a car, for instance. We had a terrible time breastfeeding through latch problems, low milk supply, a baby who at 3 weeks STILL wasn't back up to birthweight, and post-partum depression-- AND I had a very supportive husband, boss, friends, and every one of my pediatricians is a board-certified lactation consultant so saw a LC 2-3 times a week for the first 3 months of my son's life. My difficulties with breastfeeding seriously had me contemplating suicide-- I am NOT joking-- and it was in large part because of the insane pressure we put on moms to breastfeed exclusively. My son needed supplemental formula and I remember standing in the formula isle at the grocery store, bawling, reading the labels of each formula trying to find the one that was LEAST POISONOUS to my son. I'm sorry, but we've gone too far when we destroy mothers for what they feed their babies. I managed to nurse my son until he was 11 months and just was over it, but no way would I EVER say that another mother would have to go through what I did. Sorry, but it just isn't worth it. 75% of the women in this country start breastfeeding and that is great, I'd like to see it be 95%. But if they give it a go and decide it's not for them, then they have my support. And if we ever had another baby and had a situation like we did with my first, it wouldn't bother me at all to supplement with formula and save everyone the grief and heartache that was our first year.

I am have worked as a public health professional for 10 years and I believe in the benefits of a breastfeeding population, but that doesn't mean that it is the right choice for everyone all the time. And while there are lots of things we could do to make breastfeeding more acceptable and easier (I LOVE the boobs paper idea-- you could make a mint, I'll buy your first piece!) it isn't going to be the right choice for everyone. And God forbid there is a new mom with PPD on this board right now who is going through what I did, because comments like this might just be what pushes her over the edge. I am sorry to be so harsh, because I totally understand where you guys are coming from, but you need to think about how what you are saying might be affecting others.

Crystal - posted on 02/24/2009

Stasia, I've pointed that out before and then they usually get nasty with me.....I'm from Florida, and right now I'm living in Tennessee. Most of the women I've talked to are on an Army Wives Message board. I have had my views on breastfeeding bash because apparently saying breastfeeding is better than formula feeding (which statistically and factually it is) is not okay to say (gee, and i thought I had the right to my opinion). I've given actual facts and they usually get all pissy with me, I've offered help only to learn that the person was apparently dead set on quitting anyways, and just wanted support, and when I don't offer the support they wanted, I'm the bad guy because I tell them how they could have continued.

Honestly I do think it's selfish of women not to breastfeed when they are perfectly capable of doing so, it's my opinion, and I think that can be the only reason a woman who really has no problems breastfeeding their child, and no supply issues, just decides one day to stop nursing. I've found so many formula feeding Mom's are snippy because they do feel guilty, and if they had no other choice then there's no reason to feel guilty, sad maybe but not guilty, and it's not fair to blame women who support breastfeeding for the said guilt.


And so now, i'm awake at 2am and probably made no sense in my ramblings I shall end this post ;)

Stasia - posted on 02/23/2009

Crystal, where are you from? Ive honestly never met a woman who has said or done that. Next time you hear that it will make your boobs sag tell them it is actually the pregnancy not the bfing!!!

Brenda - posted on 02/23/2009

I, no matter what, try to help moms, and try very hard not to judge those who can't do it for one reason or another.  I often share my story about having problems and how we got through them, and hope that it encourages someone to try just a few more times before giving up.

The ones I don't particularly like are the ones that get nasty about choosing bottle feeding and get really defensive when someone points out the benefits.  Of course those are women who are feeling guilt over their own choice, most likely.  (I'm not a fan of breast feeding pros that get really nasty with a bottle feeding moms either, I just don't think it helps at all).  Education is always the best and trying to encourage them to give it a try or try it even for just one more day when they might otherwise give up is best for a lot of women who maybe don't have the support they need to continue.  It is so unfortunate that some women give up before they've begun because some people convince them it is too much work.  A lot of people don't even bother to research the facts they just go on what other people tell them, very unfortunate.

Crystal - posted on 02/23/2009

http://mediamum.wordpress.com/2009/01/02...

That has some of the breastfeeding rates.

I know many women who just couldn't be "bothered" to breastfeed so they didn't even bother to try. Many women in America only believe myths they here, and there's even some who I've heard say they didn't want to breastfed (and did not) because they said it would make their breasts sag. Who cares that it's best for your baby....

Stasia - posted on 02/23/2009

It's nice that you are so passionate about it, but it is really difficult for a lot of women, and it does last longer than a few weeks for a lot of women. My own nipples were bleeding for over two months at every feed, and I had an absolutely awful time.

That being said, I did continue and It was the people who told me "formula is Ok!!!" that actually made me try harder. I felt extremely judged by women that were freaking out and saying things like " YOU HAVE TO BREASTFEED OR YOUR BABY WON"T BE AS SMART HEALTHY AND YOU ARE A QUITTER"
These women made me feel horrible about myself and just want to quit. One of my nipples even got two holes that milk could come out (and has to this day due to scarring from the damage they recieved).

I don't know where you are from to say 90% of women are undereducated, and I don't know what the breastfeeding population percentage is in the states, but in Canada where I am from it is over 75% and where i live in particular the rates are up to 90%.

Im curious now what the rates are like in other parts of the world. Its the normal here unless you physically can't Ive never met anyone who chose not to breastfeed.

Candace - posted on 02/21/2009

I think a lot of women don't BF because they are lazy.  They want the convenience of being able to have anyone, any time, any place be able to feed the baby or fix a bottle. 

Brenda - posted on 02/20/2009

I tell you, I honestly don't know how women can stop just because they have problems.  We had a really tough time to start with because my breasts are different.  One looks I guess normal, where the tip is flat and easy for the baby to latch onto, but the other (coincidently my bigger boob) has a slightly rounded shape to it and always was harder to latch onto and I never really think it emptied properly.  The lactation consultant didn't see it as a problem, but my son always had a more difficult time with that side.  He was also born with his hand on his head, and for several days it was super difficult to nurse him on ones side because his shoulder was so sore.  He was one of those babies that would only nurse lying down, and no other way.  I really hated to give it up after my surgery, but damn anestesia.  I talked to the WIC folks about it and they tried to help me get my milk production back up, but it just wouldn't happen.  Of course it didn't help that I sucked at pumping, and Nathan did not want to take the time to nurse to properly stimulate my breasts to produce again.  He was so impatient after he had to be changed abruptly to the bottle.  He just wanted food.  I had to start him on solids pretty early, and I bet I wouldn't have if I'd been able to continue breastfeeding instead of formula.

Mary: That is horrible!  Again that stupid sexualization.  If it is a breast its sexual.  Got news for her, if her boys are pre teen his friends at school probably snuck nudie pictures in without anyone knowing....  Hrm.  What's better?  Seeing the breast as a source of food or a sexual object first thing?  I think I'd rather my son understand the breast as a source of food first, and an object second.  After all, making the breast a sex object is one step away from making women a sexual object...

Brooke: You do have lovely kids!  Some people just don't see that love is love, no matter what it is.  Of course those are the type of people that are anti breastfeeding too.  They don't see past surface appearances.  I just think that children born of black/white couples are some of the most beautiful kids around!  Hispanic/black mixed children too.  Those mixtures give children some of the most beautiful features.  I'm originally from south Texas, and I grew up around more mixed racial families than non mixed, so to me its just the way it should be.  :)

Crystal - posted on 02/20/2009

Mary that's horrible! I can't believe she would say something like that.

Brooke you have beautiful children! It's amazing how ignorant some people can be.

Brooke - posted on 02/20/2009

Wow, I've never gotten comments made to me, I guess dirty looks though. Who knows, honestly, I try to ignore ignorant people. I've had to learn to. My husband is black, so I'm sure you can imagine the looks we sometimes get as a family. Thankfully, though, I've never heard any racial remarks made around my children........because you know I'd say something then.  My parents adopted my brother ( who is white/black ) when I was a teenager and we lived in a really ignorant part of the country at the time. We got ALOT of comments about my little brother and I was always making a comment back to the biggot who said it. Soooooo, right on Mary for stating not only your mind but also the truth about what our breasts are for. GO GIRL !

Mary - posted on 02/20/2009

I totally agree. I get so annoyed when I hear moms go on about how they "had" to quit breastfeeding for some reason and then talk about how distraught they were. Latch problems, flat nipples, low supply, milk came in late, mastitis, nipple infections, soreness, weight loss in baby, and so on....It drives me crazy because I experienced ALL of those things in the first two months with my little guy, and then they tell me, oh I had to quit because we had latch issues. And I'm like, why don't you try and put some effort into it! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Sorry I'm especially annoyed right now because of the nasty comment I got at dinner while feeding my son form another mom. She snidely said that I should be doing that in private because she didn't want to see it, and she certainly didn't want her young sons too. I replied, it's a breast lady, it makes milk, and I'm feeding my son the milk that it made. I am not going to hide because I choose to do what is best for my son and not what is socially acceptable.

Brooke - posted on 02/20/2009

Brenda, my son is still on the bottle and almost 22 months. It is his comfort before naps and bedtime. Americans make their babies grow up way too fast.......SAD! So glad to read on here all the mothers who think like my husband and I. It's hard to find support alot when you are an A.P. family. I keep telling my hubby about all the posts on here......he finds it quite interesting and is glad there are others like us!

Johnny - posted on 02/20/2009

Quoting Ashley:

I've given up on all the boards on here except for this one and the cloth diapering munchkins one. The "breastfeeding moms" one is full of questions about early weaning, supplementing or switching to formula to return to work, starting solids at 3 months (!!!), and bad advice on babies that haven't pooped in a few days. (COME on, it's normal!)

Beating my head against the keyboard!

Oh, tell me about it.  I don't understand why so much of  a breastfeeding board is taken up with discussions about switching babies to formula.  I wish it was like this board, where it is very clearly stated that there is no support here for promoting CIO solutions to sleep.  On the breastfeeding board, there should simply be advise about how to fix breastfeeding problems, because most can be fixed. The over abundance of misinformation just makes me scream.  And promoting formula just gets me going... I used it, I researched it, and I know it is no where near as good as breast milk. So don't anyone tell me some BS about how it's as good. And if someone tells me its better, all they get is copied & pasted articles in return.  But people would rather bury their heads in the sand and take the convenient way, because our society is set up to support & encourage that. 

I often compare it to car seats & cribs.  Most people research to find their baby the safest car seat and make sure that the crib they are putting their baby in has no recalls etc.  They would never accept second best when it comes to their babies safety, but yet they'll feed them the second best food because its easier?  Huh, weird.

As for breastfeeding moms making formula feeding moms feel guilty.  I'm OK with that.  I worked my butt off to breastfeed, because I knew my baby needed it.  I still pump after almost every feeding & get up every 2 hours at night to pump.  So if they feel guilty because they gave up on it because of a bit of latch pain that they didn't bother to get help correcting, maybe they should & maybe next time they'll try harder.  I know, it's a bit harsh, but I'm tired of it.

I am happy to say that I spend time on BabyCener (Canada)'s breastfeeding board & it's awesome.  Full of supportive & informed women who encourage moms to keep at it & give great advise on all sorts of problems.  Many women on there are extended breastfeeders or have become that thanks to all the support & info.  So, there is hope :)

Brenda - posted on 02/20/2009

You got that right.  People always get things in their head and then you present them with facts and they won't believe them no matter how true.  It is sooo annoying.

Crystal - posted on 02/20/2009

except formula is nowhere near better. I'm tired of hearing, well formula is just as good. Nope, sorry it's not, it's missing quite a few things in it that's in breastmilk that is SOOO healthy for the baby. Breastmilk is made for YOUR child, formula is made for EVERY child.....ugh. The whole sexualized thing pisses me off too, my boobs were created to make milk, just like a cow's udders were. I get no sexual pleasure from breastfeeding, and ugh. I don't know it's all just stupid. i can't think of anything else to say, because these people are so ignorant and they don't want to hear anything that is contrary to their opinions. It's like arguing with a brick wall.

Brenda - posted on 02/20/2009

You know I think the reason people think they have to wean by 12 months is because of bottle feeding.  Every doctor and every where you look, you are supposed to get rid of the bottle by age one.  My son was two when we gave up the bottle, despite everyone claiming it was bad for him.  The child has perfect teeth so it didn't hurt him any.  I think because of that, moms that breast feed assume they're supposed to wean by 12 months too.  It has just become taboo in our society to have a child nurse, bottle or breast, longer than 12 months because people start attaching sexual imagery to the breast as if a baby can understand it.  I mean, while I don't see a seven year old nursing as a rule as a good thing, I don't see what's so wrong with babies nursing till they're ready to stop.

The whole problem is as a society we're so bound up in the underlying "sexual" nature of everything.  Its like the people that think nursing in public past age 6 months is offensive.  Yeah, okay, a six month old totally understands the sexual innuendo behind the breast.  Why does society have to attach sexual meaning to something and act as if a baby has those sex drives already and knows about it?  I mean, that's really what they're saying, even if they don't say it.  And have you heard those anti breast feeding people who say that women breastfeed because it gives them sexual pleasure and arouses them therefore it's wrong??  They're the people that claim that formula was made for a reason and there's no reason to breastfeed anymore because technology has replaced the need for it.

Brenda - posted on 02/20/2009

LOL, I did the same thing with ds!  He'd wake up super early and I'd turn on pbs and snooze to catch up on some sleep.  I've also done that while I've been pregnant this time.  When I was so sick or tired I'd put himon the computer to play his pbskids or starfall and lay on the couch and snooze while he played.  But my son usually ends up laying on the couch with me anyways.  :)  I love having him close like that though.  Even if mom gets a little irritable now and then LOL

Crystal - posted on 02/20/2009

I agree, and of course they come back with "i'm doing what's best for our family" No, you're doing what's conveinent for you and you only, and not thinking about what's actually best for your child but what's best to get you back in a "comfortable" position. Like the people who let their kids cry it out for sleep. My kids are incredibly close together, I've had more than one child wake up at a time during the night but you don't hear me complaining or going I NEED MORE SLEEP HELP!!! No, I deal with it, and sometimes, bad mommy that I am I just lock them all in the room with me, turn on the TV and lay down and doze.....but I do not complain about them needing comfort or food during the night.

Brenda - posted on 02/20/2009

Crystal, I am right there with you on it.  I try to help as much as I can, so I just unsubscribe to all the threads I post to so if anyone flames me for my opinion I just don't even know it!  At least I put my opinion on the thread!  I think the Welcome to the circle of moms board is the worst I've been in though.  I've never seen so much crap come out of so many supposedly experienced moms out there.  And its all about conveinence, and I just want to yell to them all "What is your problem, being a mom isn't supposed to be conveinent!!!  It is work!"  Oye...why become a mom if you aren't going to do your best for your baby?

Crystal - posted on 02/20/2009

I'm tired of reading all the advice on read "babywise" omg if I hear that again I might scream! Or the excuses that women make. Honestly I don't see why women say breastfeeding Mom's make them feel guilty. You can't make someone feel guilty if you feel you made the best choice for you and your baby. I do believe that formula is a great invention and has it's place, but I also believe that all women should at least start out breastfeeding.

I'm mostly tired of all the posts that are based on convenience parenting rather than child led parenting. Have a child is a inconvenience, it just is, you should be aware of that before you get pregnant and change your life accordingly.

I need to stop visiting the stay at home mom community now because everyone just says, oh just give him/her a bottle, or just let them cry it out, that will teach them how to sleep, and then when I give my opinion, based on facts, I get flamed.

Ashley - posted on 02/20/2009

I've given up on all the boards on here except for this one and the cloth diapering munchkins one. The "breastfeeding moms" one is full of questions about early weaning, supplementing or switching to formula to return to work, starting solids at 3 months (!!!), and bad advice on babies that haven't pooped in a few days. (COME on, it's normal!)

Beating my head against the keyboard!

Ashley - posted on 02/20/2009

I've given up on all the boards on here except for this one and the cloth diapering munchkins one. The "breastfeeding moms" one is full of questions about early weaning, supplementing or switching to formula to return to work, starting solids at 3 months (!!!), and bad advice on babies that haven't pooped in a few days. (COME on, it's normal!)

Beating my head against the kayboard!

Tricia - posted on 02/20/2009

Thanks for the link, Ashley.  And Carol, I admire you so much for sticking with it!  Any moms out there who comfort nurse even though they can't exclusively BF, I admire you too.  It's encouraging to know BF is on the rise, even though it's got a long way to go.  I think I just  need to avoid the Jan '09 board here on circle of moms.  I's too frustrating to read bottle feeding advice while I BF my son.

Sheri - posted on 02/20/2009

I really think "C" is the answer. "Are we being undermined by family, society & doctors"... I've been perplexed about this as well and one really important thing that we've missed, as a society, is the concept of "it takes a village". The truth is that if nobody tells us, we assume that breastfeeding comes natural and we won't need any help and that's just not the case. There are techniques to it and unless we either already have a helpful community (enlightened on the subject) we have to seek out help to alleviate the issues that arise. Mostly it's an improper latch... which leads to pain... which leads to avoidance... which leads to lower milk production, etc. And the doctors of our mothers' generation were so bent on pushing formula that many didn't even try to help! (My mom told her dr. that her "milk just wasn't coming in" (after only a few days!) and of course he just said, "oh, well that happens, you'll need to use formula then". I canNOT imagine a doctor not knowing that it takes up to 5 days for a woman's milk to come in! It was the same for me with my first son - and we did supplement with a bit of formula to help out in those first few crazy days (he was born small and exceptionally hungry!). And then, with the help of a few nurse appointments and one consulation with a lactation specialist (a gift from a friend), we got good at it and he nursed until he was nearly two. I think women are just surprised that nursing can be a challenge at first, and when they ask the older generation, they tend to get the same answer "I wasn't able to either".



I know in one country (was it India?), the mom is taken in and taken care of by the in-laws for a whole month, just so she can devote herself to the practice of breast-feeding! The best we can do is educate one aother - and it IS getting better. I've never seen more BF'ing moms in my life!

Brenda - posted on 02/19/2009

Awesome link!  I'm saving that to my links on facebook.

Johnny - posted on 02/19/2009

I could not agree with you more.  Like a PP, I actually have chronic low milk supply, and it is NOT an excuse for not breastfeeding.  I get really tired of hearing that from women, because I know it is just not true.  Be they justifying their choice to formula feed or truly uninformed that it can be worked through, it is just not true.  I had breast surgery 8 years ago and many of my ducts were severed.  I've now been breastfeeding my daughter for the last 6 months while pumping after feeds, taking domperidone & herbal supplements, and doing other lactational tricks.  I have had to supplement her, usually an ounce or two after a full breastfeed, and now that she is on solids, the only liquids she gets is my breastmilk.  I plan to continue until she self-weans,  and will pump when I go back to work.

I think you are right, when it is difficult starting out, many women give up, and then pass that on to their friends who assume it's to difficult to even bother.  I also believe that women are uninformed in the pre-natal period about what breastfeeding is really like.  They aren't told about cluster feeding, the fact that babies lose weight in the beginning, that they need to eat often even more than every 3 hours.  And when these things happen, women think that their doing it wrong. 

I am lucky, all but one other person from my pre-natal group are all exclusively breasfteeding still at 6 months.  And the other woman, like me, had to supplement a bit.  In my weekly baby group, i would say that 75% of the moms are breastfeeding still at 6 months.  But when I go to the mall, I see so many women walking along with bottles propped up in the strollers.  I'm not sure if it is laziness, embarassement over using the breast for it's real purpose, lack of education on the dangers of formula feeding and the benefits of the breast, or just a combination of all those & more.  But it's really sad. I'm sure all of my friends are sick of hearing me go on about how great breastfeeding is, but I want them to see that even with all of the problems I've had, it's totally worth it and way better than giving her formula.

Ashley - posted on 02/19/2009

Hey ladies--check out the breastfeeding blog posts at one-of-those-women.blogspot.com I just read parts 2 and 3 of her huge breastfeeding rant. It was AMAZING. It is super long, so take your time getting through it, but Morgan basically made me want to dance around in the streets singing joyously. She put into words so many aspects of why women end up not breastfeeding (in public, specifically--but I believe that the fear of breastfeeding in public leads to just not breastfeeding at all) that hardly anybody actually mentions today.

I really want every breastfeeding mom to read it. It blows my mind. It's so empowering once you realize WHY everyone has such a problem with our boobs and breastfeeding.

Hurrah hurrah!

Ladies, just remember...you're being a beacon of hope and possibility to girls and women who will be moms someday. I hope that all of my girlfriends who see how easy it is for me to breastfeed, and how I'll do it anywhere, anytime, no shame, feel encouraged that they can do it too, no problem. I hope our culture will swing back towards breastfeeding being the normal standard rather than the "excellent" standard, and then formula feeding won't instantly be the go-to norm.

Ally - posted on 02/19/2009

Thank goodness there are still moms out there like you! I don't know any of my friends except one that breastfeeds....it boggles my mind...even my own mil asks me if I want to go upstairs to nurse or if I wanted to leave the room at a freaking baby shower...i was like umm im not uncomfortable at all ...the people who should be uncomforatble are the ones with a bottle sticking out of their newborns mouth! and if me breastfeeding makes people uncomfortable then they are free to leave or not watch. One mom even told me she gave up after 3 days cuz she was way too tired and as a nurse you woldnt believe the reasons I have gotten from post partum moms...oh im not comfortable...my freind says it hurts...it's inconvenient??? I feel like telling these people that motherhood is far from painless and certainly not convenient...but we should do whats best for our babies cuz thats what moms do! and these women on here who have had legitimate medical issues then that is what formula is for although even brooke who had problems still kept it up for 8 months! what a trooper!



My one freind who is due any day now just registered for bottles and formula bc she decided sh edidnt want to breastfeed b4 even trying...my present was mostly breastfeeding related with creams pads ect to send the not so subtle message to get over herself and do what is right for her child!

thanks for the reality infused post tricia!

Brenda - posted on 02/19/2009

OMG its a BREAST!  SEXUAL SUGGESTIONS ABOUND!  Women should walk around with exposed breasts and babies latched on just because they can according to most state laws.  LOL.

Just because men think sex when they see a boob everyone is trained to agree with it.  It is so rediculous.  Its the same thing as baby books that moms buy that tell you that breast milk isn't important after six months (eh hem...babywise).  And you have formula makers claiming that their formula is just as good as breast milk.  Gee if all these women formula feeding went to breast feeding, they'd lose a lot of money.  The truth is, I think some pediatricians are anti breast b/c they get kickbacks from formula companies.

We are a society of conveinence, unfortunately.  That's why cry it out is so popular.  We feel like we have to schedule everything and make it as easy and painless as possible for us, including parenting.  Moms would rather use tons of money on fake, processed cows milk than spend time close to their baby because the THOUGHT of letting a baby nurse on their breast makes them uncomfortable. 

I am one of those women that could not nurse my son, and I had a tough time with that fact.  I had my gall bladder out when he was 4 weeks old.  I went in that day pumping 8 oz and that night to pump and dump I got 2 oz.  I tried for two weeks to bring my milk back up to production, but it just got less and less.  I was at least proud to have nursed for those first four weeks, and even when I bottle fed, I cuddled with him just like I was nursing him.  I plan to nurse with my newborn as much as I can, but I may need to formula supplement while I'm at school because there won't be a way for me to pump during class.  But I'll do what I can for my little one!

Brooke - posted on 02/19/2009

I agree with you 100% that breastfeeding is best. When I had my daughter I honestly didn't produce enough milk. Tried everything!!!!!! She wasn't even at her birth weight of a tiny 6'1 at a month old. I started supplementing with a bottle AFTER I had nursed her on both sides. She quickly gained weight after that. We nursed until she was 8 mths.( she wiened herself much to my dismay). I had my son 2.5 years later and had a much different experience. My son LOVED nursing! At his one week app. he had already gained 4 oz. over his birth weight. No problems latching on or emptying my breasts. I nursed him until 16 mths. and he sometimes still climbs on me for a dry run ( he's 21 mths. now) If I ever have more babies I will nurse even longer. I think people listen too much to the advice of non-nursers. Our culture expects us to nurse no longer than 12 months, which is sad. A child is a baby until at least 2 in my opinion.