Muslims

Kristin - posted on 06/28/2009

I agree that the e-mail sent was totally inappropriate. I am sure it is a direct violation of e-mail usage in the work place and should be reported to Human Resources. During the election a co-worker sent out an e-mail to everyone in the company (CEO & HR included) against Obama and gays and Muslims...it was something about Obamas past/childhood, that if he was elected that there would be a terrorist on the "inside" It went on to attack gays and african americans....blah blah blah.

I was appauled that something like this was sent out at work and to everyone...I replied to the sender...that I thought it was extremely inappropriate seeing as how it was attack on religious beliefs and was racist. In the process of my e-mail to her...HR sent out one to everyone...reminding people of the e-mail usage policy and stating that such e-mails were prohibited and could lead to termination.

Michelle - posted on 06/27/2009

I agree, I have had people say to me Obama Bin Laden is running the country and so forth. I really want to get back into a christian church but am afraid that I will be met with this type of ignorance. IT's the fear of the unknown and not having enough sense to educate yourself .

Tawny - posted on 06/25/2009

The email that was sent to Sara was not appropriate. It should be classified in the same as sexual harrasment. Im surprised that your emails are not monitored by your boss. Where my sister use to work all there emails were monitored and if the emails were not work related and were offensive they were reprimanded or they could of been fired depending on what was sent. I think anytime a supposed joke about any race is wrong. To send a joke about Muslims, African Americans, Indians, and Caucasions and many more different ethnics need to be stopped. No one deserves to be treated any different we are all humas. Yes we all have different beliefs, we all look different and talk differently, but that does not give anyone right to make jokes about people. I guess that is why I really don't care to hear comedians make fun of different ethnics.

Michelle - posted on 06/25/2009

I agree with you, Evelyn, but there's a lot of misinformation out there about Muslims. I used to get upset every time I saw these types of jokes or read biased articles (and I've been a Muslim since 1994). However, I have learned to pick my battles. I might write in to a TV station or Internet site if I see something really hateful, but if I did this for every joke that crossed the line, I really wouldn't have time to work or raise my kids. I do feel better now that we now have a president who understands people of other faiths. That's a big step forward and I look forward to living in a country that progresses and celebrates diversity under his leadership.

Evelyn - posted on 06/25/2009

Some of the replies on here go so far beyond ignorant that it's astounding. So please forgive me if I ignore most of the posts in response to the original question and just respond to Sara's post. While I enjoy comedy (more than most people I know actually), I do know when a line has been crossed. If you cannot see that a SERIOUS issue is underlying in this "joke" then you have major issues. I've laughed at black, white, spanish, chinese, etc..etc..jokes before (as ALL of us have I'm sure at some point or another) when they are done in good humor. But when a joke goes so far as to call for the suicide of muslims to weed out any terrorists by having naked women run around the block what does that say? Let me explain it simply...it is generalizing all muslims as terrorists and calling for their death whether they are terrorist or not..just because of their faith/background. How is that funny exactly? Especially during a time when there are racial/religious tensions all over the globe? Sorry, but the continued spread of hate mail may be tolerated and blown off by some, but those of us who are not so flippant as to disregard something inflammatory such as this, know better.

Sara - posted on 06/25/2009

Quoting Michelle:

Jessica, you are so right about the Bush Administration creating a fear-based environment that helped fuel anti-Muslim sentiment in the United States. That speech that was quoted was in 2001 before two wars and countless other things (like torture) that happened during the Bush Administration. Being a Muslim and having lived through Bush's administration, I especially notice things said by the president. That may have been a nice speech in 2001, but he said so many inflammatory things in the 8 years that followed, I doubt that speech had any impact at all on Americans in general. And for the record, countless numbers of Muslim leaders in communities all across the country condemned that 9 - 11 attacks. They didn't make excuses for it. I'm an American-Muslim and I love this country! As far as having a positive experience with that religion, there are many groups that I may not have had a positive experience with, but I don't automatically assume that everyone from that group is the same. Finally, it's a little hard to "lighten up" when you feel your family is being threatened because of its religion. I worried about my children so many times because of their Muslim names and ethnic background (my husband is Iranian). Most people are really nice, but it only takes one ignorant person... As far as the joke, I've seen and heard similar ones and I just ignore them. My mom (who is not a Muslim) got upset at one of her relatives who was sending her these kinds of jokes, along with hateful, biased articles against Muslims, and finally e-mailed the relative back telling her to please stop sending her those types of e-mails.

I totally agree with you Michelle, and my Muslim friends feel the exact same way as you do! 

Sara - posted on 06/25/2009

Quoting Traci:

Quoting Crystal:

You should report that coworker. Sending out hateful forwards like that is not only discriminatory (what if you or someone he/she sent it to had a Muslim background?), but counterproductive for the company's time.
Do not stand for this intolerance. Print up the email and take it to your boss/superior.
This email spreads hate. Some people may look at it as "Oh well, just don't bother reading it, it's just a dumb joke". But what if the same kind of email was sent out spreading hate about blacks, Jews, or homosexuals? Even though it is the very same concept, hatred toward a culture or group of people based on religion, race, or sexual orientation, I'm sure people wouldn't regard it so flippantly. Not right, not right at all.

Are you kidding me?  Report that worker?  What is this-Kindergarten???  That is so childish.  If she was really that offended, the proper thing to do would be to tell the coworker that she didn't find it funny, please don't send those sort of emails to her any longer.  That would be more of an adult thing to do.  But to go running to the boss and "tell"....really?  If someone sent an email making fun of white people, I wouldn't be offended!  I'd probably laugh,too.  Are you offended by the comedian Carlos Mencia or Chris Rock?  They've told jokes WAY worse than that  that perpetuate common stereotypes.  Big deal.  The email was more about guys tricking women to walk around naked than it was to have all the Muslims kill themselves.  I'm not offended by that, as a female!    Everybody nowadays is a victim!  Lighten up....life's too short to have your panties in a bunch for such silly things.  :)

Honestly, it is against University policy to distrubute emails like the one my co-worker sent me.  It did make me angry, but I would rather discuss it with her and let her know that I am offended by these types of emails rather than just report her without any heads up because it would result in her being reprimanded.  But, I think there is a line at work that people don't respect when it comes to certain things.  I think it's just as inappropriate when I get those Chrisitian "God Loves You", "Jesus Died for Your Sins" emails too.  That's not appropriate for the workplace either.

Michelle - posted on 06/25/2009

Jessica, you are so right about the Bush Administration creating a fear-based environment that helped fuel anti-Muslim sentiment in the United States. That speech that was quoted was in 2001 before two wars and countless other things (like torture) that happened during the Bush Administration. Being a Muslim and having lived through Bush's administration, I especially notice things said by the president. That may have been a nice speech in 2001, but he said so many inflammatory things in the 8 years that followed, I doubt that speech had any impact at all on Americans in general. And for the record, countless numbers of Muslim leaders in communities all across the country condemned that 9 - 11 attacks. They didn't make excuses for it. I'm an American-Muslim and I love this country! As far as having a positive experience with that religion, there are many groups that I may not have had a positive experience with, but I don't automatically assume that everyone from that group is the same. Finally, it's a little hard to "lighten up" when you feel your family is being threatened because of its religion. I worried about my children so many times because of their Muslim names and ethnic background (my husband is Iranian). Most people are really nice, but it only takes one ignorant person... As far as the joke, I've seen and heard similar ones and I just ignore them. My mom (who is not a Muslim) got upset at one of her relatives who was sending her these kinds of jokes, along with hateful, biased articles against Muslims, and finally e-mailed the relative back telling her to please stop sending her those types of e-mails.

Traci - posted on 06/24/2009

Quoting Crystal:

You should report that coworker. Sending out hateful forwards like that is not only discriminatory (what if you or someone he/she sent it to had a Muslim background?), but counterproductive for the company's time.
Do not stand for this intolerance. Print up the email and take it to your boss/superior.
This email spreads hate. Some people may look at it as "Oh well, just don't bother reading it, it's just a dumb joke". But what if the same kind of email was sent out spreading hate about blacks, Jews, or homosexuals? Even though it is the very same concept, hatred toward a culture or group of people based on religion, race, or sexual orientation, I'm sure people wouldn't regard it so flippantly. Not right, not right at all.

Are you kidding me?  Report that worker?  What is this-Kindergarten???  That is so childish.  If she was really that offended, the proper thing to do would be to tell the coworker that she didn't find it funny, please don't send those sort of emails to her any longer.  That would be more of an adult thing to do.  But to go running to the boss and "tell"....really?  If someone sent an email making fun of white people, I wouldn't be offended!  I'd probably laugh,too.  Are you offended by the comedian Carlos Mencia or Chris Rock?  They've told jokes WAY worse than that  that perpetuate common stereotypes.  Big deal.  The email was more about guys tricking women to walk around naked than it was to have all the Muslims kill themselves.  I'm not offended by that, as a female!    Everybody nowadays is a victim!  Lighten up....life's too short to have your panties in a bunch for such silly things.  :)

Traci - posted on 06/24/2009

Um....Jessica...did you read that speech I posted above??? He could not have chosen better words!

Jessica - posted on 06/24/2009

The Bush Administration created a fear-based environment that helped fuel anti-Muslim sentiment in the United States. He deserves a fair share of the blame for the widespread ignorance out there. His words were poorly chosen and were, quite frankly, irresponsible.

JL - posted on 06/24/2009

My problem was that Bush did not in my opinion sound very forceful and really crack down on it in forceful manner and specifically state how disgusted we as a nation were with those Americans who were beating up others and attacking thier places of religious worship because they were Muslim. Yes, I wanted him to say more and be more forceful because all of us with the slighest level of intelligence could forsee that there were going to be attacks on anyone who was Arabic or Muslim. So I feel like I have to hold him accountable for some of the blame not all the blaime by any means because I felt like all of our political leaders were slow at coming out and chastising Americans for reacting in such destructive ways that enforced an ideal of what being Muslim means, but he was the leader we were all looking toward him during that time and I wanted him to lead with command socially as well as politically.



My father in law used to send me stupid emails like that until I told him one day that I do not open them because I don't find them funny. I don't think the workplace is an appropriate environment for stuff like that and as much as I enjoy comedy that is politically incorrect I do feel like there are certain things that are so contentious in our society that they should be left alone in order not to perpeutate any ingnorant thoughts that lead to violence. I mean look at the immigation issue. Most Americans have nothing against immigrants and would welcome them to taking the legal route to become a citizen and we can understand why some illegally come over here but the arguements have created some negative stereotypes and some of the not so responsible talking heads have said things that have perpetuated ignorant views toward Hispanics. As a result we have had a rise in ignorant people verbally and physically attacking Hispanics. We have teenagers forming little gangs and going around specifically looking for Hispanics to beat up claiming they are helping get rid of the immigrants who are taking our jobs as if any of those teenagers have jobs in the first place.



And honestly I do not blame Bush for everything that happened the last 8 years because my party for too long sat back in Congress saying little and doing little to stand against things like the Patriot Act. They let fear of being called unpatriotic and the fact that they were in the minority most of the time hold them back while a number of thier constituents like me sent them numerous emails demanding them to stand up. I also do put more blame on Cheney and Rumsfeld who I both think were the main culprits of much of the mishaps that occurred, but this is my opinion on the subject.

Shannon - posted on 06/24/2009

Quoting Traci:

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Traci:

Sara, do you really think its fair to blame anti-Muslim sentiment on GWB? I would say 9-11 has more to do with that than our former president. Instead of blaming simpletons for their sentiments I would blame those who have committed those heinous acts of terrorism and those who fail to condemn those acts or make excuses for those acts. Many people don't have the positive experience with those of that faith that you had, so all that they know of Muslims is terror or the problems that happen over in Islamic countries they see on the news. You can't blame them for feeling that way...

I think that email was just meant to be a funny joke, even though it wasn't very funny....and a ruse to get some naked chicks running around the block! LOL I wouldn't think too much into it if I were you. :)

Actually, I do blame Bush for quite a bit of it with all of his "Evildoer" and "Axis of Evil" talk.  Sure, he's not totally to blame, but he reinforced the ignorance.

 

I think you missed the point of my post.  I think it IS wrong to categorize an entire group of people as evil based on their religion.  The Muslim religion is not evil.  There are always extremists in any group, but to lump them all together with a select few is wrong.  I don't think all Christians blow up abortion clinics.  I don't think all police officers beat black people on the side of the road.   I don't think it's right or fair that most Americans think poorly of Muslims based on 9/11, they really should try to educate themselves instead of blindly accepting the hatemongering that come from some public/political figures.  It pisses me off, and honestly it shows the ignorance that prevails in this country. 

 

I didn't think the joke was funny and I certainly don't think it's appropriate for work.  I didn't reply to it.

I don't think it's fair to say that just because he called those terrorists evildoers (which they most certainly were) that meant he was speaking of all the Muslims in the world.  On 9/17/01 from a mosque in Washington he gave the following speech

 

 

"Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a wide-ranging discussion on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks, and so were Muslims all across the world.

Both Americans, our Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslim in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, and it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Quran itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil, for that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule."

The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war.

When we think of Islam, we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race, out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country.

The Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads, and they need to be treated with respect.

In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear covering must not be intimidated in America. That's not the America I know; that's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.

Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America. They represent the worst of humankind. And they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

And it's a great country; it's a great country because (we) share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They are outraged; they're sad. They love America just as much as I do.

And I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by, and may God bless us all. Thank you."

 

I mean, really, what else could be have said that would better state how he felt about the Islamic faith?  He articulated your sentiments exactly in that speech, I'm not sure what else he could have done?  There is nothing about that would aid in reinforcing ignorance or prejudice from what I read.  There are other public figures, authors, and such that do perpetuate certain stereotypes, I'm sure, but Bush surely wasn't one of them. 

 

If I were you I would just reply and say something to the effect that you didn't think it was funny, please leave me off of your "forward" lists.  I'm sure your co worker wasn't trying to offend you, it was just a joke.  Later :) 

 

 

Traci,

While you seem to be well informed, not everyone is. I feel that the Bush admin was putting out the proper 'statements' of tolerance while not exactly showing the same 'attitude'. A sort of 'do as I say, not as I do' type of thing.

Which is not to say I'm calling GWB a racist, just saying that his whole admin was very proactive on the attack and the less informed were not listening to the "please don't discriminate against Muslims" things that were occasionally said.

I do hope I put this right, because the proper examples are not coming to my head and I've just spent all day at an amusement park with my almost-2-year-old and it is HUMID so I'm going to shower instead find back-ups for this statement. But my point is the ignorant people make assumption without listening to what is being said in that speech that you quoted. So I guess I put more blame on stupid people than Sara does.

But after everything that has gone so bad it is hard not to blame Bush because it is nice to have a name and a scapegoat.  I'm sure that's why I've heard Clinton blamed for nearly everything that went wrong in the past 8 years too, everyone likes to blame someone and no one wants it to be their guy ;-) I figure we can blame Bush for everything from forest fires to toilets overflowing for at least 8 years, right? LOL

Crystal - posted on 06/24/2009

Wow, what a shocker!!! ;P

Sara - posted on 06/24/2009

The person who sent me this is an idiot and, I know this might shock you, conservative!

Crystal - posted on 06/24/2009

This email was hateful and you should print it up to show to your boss/superior; not only was it spreading hatred toward a group of people (what if you or another coworker have a Muslim background?), but it was counterproductive to company time.
This makes me sick. I know some people may read it and think, "Oh well, it was just a joke, and if you don't like it, don't read it", but it was discrimination, a "joke" to spread hate toward a certain group of people. I'm sure if the joke was directed at blacks, Jews, or homosexuals, people wouldn't regard it so flippantly. Any hate talk toward a certain group of people based on beliefs, religion, race, or sexual orientation is discrimination, and should NOT be tolerated. This person should be reprimanded.

Crystal - posted on 06/24/2009

You should report that coworker. Sending out hateful forwards like that is not only discriminatory (what if you or someone he/she sent it to had a Muslim background?), but counterproductive for the company's time.
Do not stand for this intolerance. Print up the email and take it to your boss/superior.
This email spreads hate. Some people may look at it as "Oh well, just don't bother reading it, it's just a dumb joke". But what if the same kind of email was sent out spreading hate about blacks, Jews, or homosexuals? Even though it is the very same concept, hatred toward a culture or group of people based on religion, race, or sexual orientation, I'm sure people wouldn't regard it so flippantly. Not right, not right at all.

Traci - posted on 06/23/2009

OMG Sara...this is too funny. So, I'm cleanin out the hundreds of emails today in my inbox and I happened to come upon that very same email! A family member emailed it to me. It was dumb! Oh well! :)

Vicki - posted on 06/23/2009

I went to a gastroenterologist about a year ago for a very painful ulcer.When the receptionist found out I was uninsured she told me to be sure and mention it to the doctor when I was with him and he would work with me on the payment.When I left the office he gave me enough samples of my prescription to last me months.I went to pay the receptionist and she told me there was no charge.He's never charged me a cent to this day for three appts and always gave me the samples I needed.He is a Muslim.

Traci - posted on 06/23/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Traci:

Sara, do you really think its fair to blame anti-Muslim sentiment on GWB? I would say 9-11 has more to do with that than our former president. Instead of blaming simpletons for their sentiments I would blame those who have committed those heinous acts of terrorism and those who fail to condemn those acts or make excuses for those acts. Many people don't have the positive experience with those of that faith that you had, so all that they know of Muslims is terror or the problems that happen over in Islamic countries they see on the news. You can't blame them for feeling that way...

I think that email was just meant to be a funny joke, even though it wasn't very funny....and a ruse to get some naked chicks running around the block! LOL I wouldn't think too much into it if I were you. :)

Actually, I do blame Bush for quite a bit of it with all of his "Evildoer" and "Axis of Evil" talk.  Sure, he's not totally to blame, but he reinforced the ignorance.

 

I think you missed the point of my post.  I think it IS wrong to categorize an entire group of people as evil based on their religion.  The Muslim religion is not evil.  There are always extremists in any group, but to lump them all together with a select few is wrong.  I don't think all Christians blow up abortion clinics.  I don't think all police officers beat black people on the side of the road.   I don't think it's right or fair that most Americans think poorly of Muslims based on 9/11, they really should try to educate themselves instead of blindly accepting the hatemongering that come from some public/political figures.  It pisses me off, and honestly it shows the ignorance that prevails in this country. 

 

I didn't think the joke was funny and I certainly don't think it's appropriate for work.  I didn't reply to it.

I don't think it's fair to say that just because he called those terrorists evildoers (which they most certainly were) that meant he was speaking of all the Muslims in the world.  On 9/17/01 from a mosque in Washington he gave the following speech

"Thank you all very much for your hospitality. We've just had a wide-ranging discussion on the matter at hand. Like the good folks standing with me, the American people were appalled and outraged at last Tuesday's attacks, and so were Muslims all across the world.

Both Americans, our Muslim friends and citizens, tax-paying citizens, and Muslim in nations were just appalled and could not believe what we saw on our TV screens. These acts of violence against innocents violate the fundamental tenets of the Islamic faith, and it's important for my fellow Americans to understand that.

The English translation is not as eloquent as the original Arabic, but let me quote from the Quran itself: "In the long run, evil in the extreme will be the end of those who do evil, for that they rejected the signs of Allah and held them up to ridicule."

The face of terrorist is not the true faith of Islam. That's not what Islam is all about. Islam is peace. These terrorists don't represent peace, they represent evil and war.

When we think of Islam, we think of a faith that brings comfort to a billion people around the world. Billions of people find comfort and solace and peace. And that's made brothers and sisters out of every race, out of every race.

America counts millions of Muslims amongst our citizens, and Muslims make an incredibly valuable contribution to our country.

The Muslims are doctors, lawyers, law professors, members of the military, entrepreneurs, shopkeepers, moms and dads, and they need to be treated with respect.

In our anger and emotion, our fellow Americans must treat each other with respect. Women who cover their heads in this country must feel comfortable going outside their homes. Moms who wear covering must not be intimidated in America. That's not the America I know; that's not the America I value.

I've been told that some fear to leave; some don't want to go shopping for their families; some don't want to go about their ordinary daily routines because, by wearing cover, they're afraid they'll be intimidated. That should not and that will not stand in America.

Those who feel like they can intimidate our fellow citizens to take out their anger don't represent the best of America. They represent the worst of humankind. And they should be ashamed of that kind of behavior.

And it's a great country; it's a great country because (we) share the same values of respect and dignity and human worth. And it is my honor to be meeting with leaders who feel just the same way I do. They are outraged; they're sad. They love America just as much as I do.

And I want to thank you all for giving me a chance to come by, and may God bless us all. Thank you."

I mean, really, what else could be have said that would better state how he felt about the Islamic faith?  He articulated your sentiments exactly in that speech, I'm not sure what else he could have done?  There is nothing about that would aid in reinforcing ignorance or prejudice from what I read.  There are other public figures, authors, and such that do perpetuate certain stereotypes, I'm sure, but Bush surely wasn't one of them. 

If I were you I would just reply and say something to the effect that you didn't think it was funny, please leave me off of your "forward" lists.  I'm sure your co worker wasn't trying to offend you, it was just a joke.  Later :) 

Sara - posted on 06/23/2009

Quoting Traci:

Sara, do you really think its fair to blame anti-Muslim sentiment on GWB? I would say 9-11 has more to do with that than our former president. Instead of blaming simpletons for their sentiments I would blame those who have committed those heinous acts of terrorism and those who fail to condemn those acts or make excuses for those acts. Many people don't have the positive experience with those of that faith that you had, so all that they know of Muslims is terror or the problems that happen over in Islamic countries they see on the news. You can't blame them for feeling that way...

I think that email was just meant to be a funny joke, even though it wasn't very funny....and a ruse to get some naked chicks running around the block! LOL I wouldn't think too much into it if I were you. :)

Actually, I do blame Bush for quite a bit of it with all of his "Evildoer" and "Axis of Evil" talk.  Sure, he's not totally to blame, but he reinforced the ignorance.

I think you missed the point of my post.  I think it IS wrong to categorize an entire group of people as evil based on their religion.  The Muslim religion is not evil.  There are always extremists in any group, but to lump them all together with a select few is wrong.  I don't think all Christians blow up abortion clinics.  I don't think all police officers beat black people on the side of the road.   I don't think it's right or fair that most Americans think poorly of Muslims based on 9/11, they really should try to educate themselves instead of blindly accepting the hatemongering that come from some public/political figures.  It pisses me off, and honestly it shows the ignorance that prevails in this country. 

I didn't think the joke was funny and I certainly don't think it's appropriate for work.  I didn't reply to it.

Shannon - posted on 06/23/2009

How did you respond to your coworker? Ignorance like that makes me sick, but I try not to rock the boat too much in the workplace. However any hate remarks I always had to speak up about, I could never let them slide.

Traci - posted on 06/23/2009

Sara, do you really think its fair to blame anti-Muslim sentiment on GWB? I would say 9-11 has more to do with that than our former president. Instead of blaming simpletons for their sentiments I would blame those who have committed those heinous acts of terrorism and those who fail to condemn those acts or make excuses for those acts. Many people don't have the positive experience with those of that faith that you had, so all that they know of Muslims is terror or the problems that happen over in Islamic countries they see on the news. You can't blame them for feeling that way...



I think that email was just meant to be a funny joke, even though it wasn't very funny....and a ruse to get some naked chicks running around the block! LOL I wouldn't think too much into it if I were you. :)