Vaccines. . . to get them ? or not to get them? beneficial? or harmful?

Sara - posted on 10/30/2009

What my doctor told me was that a lot of the time, autism spectrum disorder symptoms show up around the same time the MMR is given. He said almost every child was showing symptoms before they were given the MMR shot in his experience. There's no link. I can't tell you how frustrating it is for me to read all these threads on COM (not this one, but some on the main page) that have so much misinformation on them about vaccines. It is a personal choice, but one that needs to be made with facts. So many of the anti-vax websites have no scientific evidence to back up their claims, but people believe them anyway. I am usually not a big fan of Dr. Sears, but I think his Vaccine Book is a pretty good one, if you want to get more information about vaccines and what is in them. Good luck!

Kendyl - posted on 10/30/2009

thanks jennifer!, and i think thats what we will do. . is delay it at the very least, i love the idea that your dr delays it. why other doctors wouldnt to help put more at ease is beyond me!. . i think it would sure take off some of the heat to the "link" with autism.

Jennifer - posted on 10/29/2009

The CDC flat out states that there is NO research suggesting that Autism is caused by the MMR vaccine. If you are that worried, however, delay the vaccine to 15 or even 18 months when your child shows enough evidence against Autism. My pediatrician's office automatically delays MMR to 15 months just to put moms at ease who are caught up in all this craziness.

Like I said, I don't believe vaccines cause Autism but I am a SAHM and since my boy doesn't have to go to daycare I have chosen to delay some vaccines like Chickenpox and MMR just so my baby doesn't have to have so many shots at one time. He will still get them all, but it may just take a few months longer.

Deanna - posted on 10/29/2009

There is no evidence that MMR vaccine or other vaccines cause autism. None! Correlation does not denote causality. Example, a lot of over weight people drink diet soda. Diet soda might not be the reason they are over weight. Just because two things have something in common doesn't mean one causes the other.



Vaccines are a useful and important responsibility we have to our children. Before the Chicken Pox vaccine about 100 people in the US died from the disease. In a recent year only 8 people died from chicken pox in the US. 6 of those people weren't vaccinated. There is no way to tell who will have a serious case and who will have a mild one. Yes, some people who have had the Chicken Pox vaccine will get Chicken Pox, but it is usually a very mild form of the disease.



As far as the other vaccines, you should really research reputable cites. Ones with sound research. If you do a study with 15 people you are not likely to get a good sample of the population. If you do a study with 5000 people, you are going to have a better snap shot of how the general population might react to what ever you are studying. Anyone can post anything they want on the internet, including Jenny McCarthy. Try to form opinions from sites like universities (.edu), CDC, aap.org and ama-assn.org. Or if you are dead set on following Jenny and her opinion check out some of the references and see if they are reputable and have sound research.

Pandita - posted on 10/28/2009

I've done alot of the research myself and it's a personal decision either way! Some of the vaccines you need and others you can do with out. But come on do you really want your baby to get Polio, Measals, Hepititas!!!? Really make an edicated and informed decision before you say i'm not doing that.

Sabrina - posted on 10/28/2009

I would like to discredit the whole Jenny McCarthy thing! vaccines DO NOT CAUSE autism. To draw the conclusion that autism is definitely caused by vaccines you would have to experiment on children, which is unethical. Therefore, there can only be a correlation; meaning that the rates of autism have gone up over the years and so have the number of children being immunized. What is not considered is that Autism is a spectrum disorder, and maybe more children are being diagnosed with it now that have lesser degrees of it because then they are able to get funding for help. I have a nephew that is autistic, and he never had any vaccines. He didn't get them because there is a family history of epilepsy and he also has an immune disorder. NOT because he's autistic.



My best advice to you would be to take the time to do the research yourself and make your own educated decision. When people tell you their interpretation of the information that is out there it will always be tainted by their own opinions.



I do not mean to sound judgemental by writing this, I just really wish that people would do the research and not just jump on the bandwagon.



I hope that I helped a little bit.

Rose - posted on 10/26/2009

I have to applaud these posts, simply because i am on the same page ;)...I studied microbiology, worked in medical research (never for pharmaceutical but for acaedemia), did a stint in vaccinology, and sold pediatric vaccines. So when people like Jenny McCarthy bites off the heads of leading physicians at the CDC (Centers for Disease Control), AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics), and WHO (World Health Organization) and clearly doesn't know the immune system well, then i have a problem with those who follow her and others' misinformation. Also, The National Institutes of Health had put in millions of dollars for many years into finding the link between MMR or any vaccine and autism, and then pulled the funding ASAP when they found themselves "beating a dead horse". So, the source of autism remains a mystery. However, doctors' ability to diagnose autism has been refined, and the spectrum is quite wide. Also, the AAP highly recommends certain vaccines at specific ages (and sometimes there are more than one vaccine at that time), because of findings of the CDC of the most crucial time to protect these children are in the vaccine schedule.

Again, those who choose to not vaccinate have that option. Of course, they have to be responsible to the community and not take their kids into public or around others in general with the slightest fever, or rash.

Wish everyone well, and hope the kids are all doing great :)

Jennifer - posted on 10/26/2009

I understand. I sometimes get a bit "hot" about this issue. I have some friends who are very anti-vaccination and like to throw it in my face when their kids get sick because they know that I'm very cautious with my daughter's condition. Needless to say, not friends anymore!

My kids have all gotten their vacinations on schedule, but that isn't the course for everyone and I don't think there is anything wrong with spacing them out or delaying some.

To answer your questions as best I can:

1) There have been numourous studies that seem to link the MMR vaccine and autism. Jenny McCarthy, who was previously mentioned, had a child who supposedly had autism and then was "cured." It should be noted that autism can't be cured. Murcury poisioning, however, which has similar symptoms to autism, can be cured with a reduction of murcury exposure in the child. Up until recently, a lot of vaccines, MMR included, had murcury in it. (Less, in fact, than is found in fish like Salmon, but I digress) Most vaccines no longer contain murcury. You can look at the CDC and the drug company websites for a complete listing of the ingredients in the vaccines. The unfortunate part about autism and the MMR shot is that the time that most autism symptoms show up is the time for the first MMR shot. So, a child will get that shot and then begin to show symptoms so the parents look for something to blame and they blame the shot. IMO, this is false. But, you will find plenty of sites that still say this. Most of the reputable sources, including the autism awareness site, will say that there is no link.

2) Children who are vaccinated can STILL GET SICK! That was what I meant by herd immunity. So, a for instance: I get Anna and Aaron (my children) vaccinated. They are vaccinated against the most common strains of a disease. Child X does not get vaccinated and contracts chicken pox. The natural course of diseases in our body causes them to mutate a bit every time we contract them. So . . . When Child X's strain of chicken pox mutates and they come in contact with my vaccinated children, they can get my kid sick. Chances are, my kids will not get as sick as a child who has not been vaccinated, but that is not a gaurantee either. The reason that vaccines have been so successful is because so many people were vaccinated so there just wasn't that much of the disease floating around. Now that so many people aren't vaccinating, we are seeing mass outbreaks of diseases that were previously thought to be eradicated. And, there are kids who are dying because of it.

I never take offence to a parent questioning vaccines. I take offence when someone tells me its their right not to vaccinate and its their right to expose my kid to diseases (which I never thought you were doing, btw! :-)). I really think that schools should be more strict with the exemptions that people get who don't vaccinate. It's a dangerous situation. A lot of peole see it as a philosophical choice . . . I kind of view it like playing russian roulette with your kids health. But I think that its only good parenting to question drugs for a child. I should note that my husband actualy makes a couple of the vaccines that we give to our children. He's a chemical engineer for one of the pharmacuetical companies in the area, so it's a little easier for me to give those drugs to my child knowing that daddy helped to make them. :)

Like I said . . . it's not an easy choice to make especially with all of the information that is out there on both sides. I would just make sure that any information you gather is from a source that doesn't have a blatent agenda. There are several websites out there that are very obviously pro- or anti- vaccination. I think ANYONE with an axe to grind could lead you wrong.

Kendyl - posted on 10/26/2009

Quoting Jennifer:

I second what Cassie said. To say that people were "fine" without vaccinations is a misnomer. Look at the number of people that died from small pox, a disease now not seen in this country because of vaccinations. Look at the number of people stricken with Polio who died or had to live lives of horrible pain; now we hardly see that disease because of vaccines. Dyptheria (sp?), Whooping Cough, Tetnus, I could go on and on. The decision not to vaccinate your children is your choice in the end. But you should konw that you are putting not only your children at risk but others as well. Vaccines protect those who are vaccinated about 90-95%. The rest of the protection comes from something called "herd immunity." In other words they are relying on the rest of the population to be vaccinated for the vaccination to work. And the reason that your unvaccinated child is "fine" is because you are relying on a significant portion of the population to be vaccinated in order to protect your child. The more parents that make the choice not to vaccinate, the more serious outbreaks of diseases you are going to see in the future. Just last year our school district had a whooping cough outbreak and hundreds of kids were hospitalized. Now, if my daughter gets that, she could die. She's an asthmatic. But do you know what the non-vax parents in the district were doing? They were throwing "whooping cough" parties and exposing their kids to whooping cough in order to give them "natural immunity" thereby spreading the disease further. I think it's irresponsible to expose other children to your child when they are not vaccinated and possibly harboring a deadly disease like whooping cough, but it seems to be common practice in order to provide a natural immunity to some diseases. I'm sorry if what I said offended you or anyone who does not vax; however, you should know that there are worse things than a high fever from a shot. There are the actual diseases that the shots are protecting against. And you might say that chicken pox and whooping cough aren't that bad, but the fact is that people have DIED from those diseases and there are people, like my daughter, who could still die if they caught it. Weigh all the options and if you still choose not to vaccinate, be safe. Both for your child's safety and for other kid's as well.

thanks jennifer!, i did word the fact that people back in the day were fine, thats not really what i meant.  i wanted to start by saying that i have had my daughter vaccinated, although she didnt start till she was 1 and she gets them at a modified schedule, not 3-5 at a time, but 1. 

i'm most curiouse about the MMR. and its relation to autism....  ( that some say is there ).

Also the chickenpox, friends of mine have had their kids vaccinated for it, but still months later end up getting it.  why is this?? and then whats the point of it??

none offense taken, and i hope i didnt offend in my reply!!

Jennifer - posted on 10/26/2009

I second what Cassie said. To say that people were "fine" without vaccinations is a misnomer. Look at the number of people that died from small pox, a disease now not seen in this country because of vaccinations. Look at the number of people stricken with Polio who died or had to live lives of horrible pain; now we hardly see that disease because of vaccines. Dyptheria (sp?), Whooping Cough, Tetnus, I could go on and on. The decision not to vaccinate your children is your choice in the end. But you should konw that you are putting not only your children at risk but others as well. Vaccines protect those who are vaccinated about 90-95%. The rest of the protection comes from something called "herd immunity." In other words they are relying on the rest of the population to be vaccinated for the vaccination to work. And the reason that your unvaccinated child is "fine" is because you are relying on a significant portion of the population to be vaccinated in order to protect your child. The more parents that make the choice not to vaccinate, the more serious outbreaks of diseases you are going to see in the future. Just last year our school district had a whooping cough outbreak and hundreds of kids were hospitalized. Now, if my daughter gets that, she could die. She's an asthmatic. But do you know what the non-vax parents in the district were doing? They were throwing "whooping cough" parties and exposing their kids to whooping cough in order to give them "natural immunity" thereby spreading the disease further. I think it's irresponsible to expose other children to your child when they are not vaccinated and possibly harboring a deadly disease like whooping cough, but it seems to be common practice in order to provide a natural immunity to some diseases. I'm sorry if what I said offended you or anyone who does not vax; however, you should know that there are worse things than a high fever from a shot. There are the actual diseases that the shots are protecting against. And you might say that chicken pox and whooping cough aren't that bad, but the fact is that people have DIED from those diseases and there are people, like my daughter, who could still die if they caught it. Weigh all the options and if you still choose not to vaccinate, be safe. Both for your child's safety and for other kid's as well.

Rose - posted on 10/25/2009

Hello, I would like to suggest reading "Vaccinated" by Dr Paul Offit. Also, around the 1960s, there were so many cases of pregnant women giving birth the blind and deaf children, that many schools for the blind and deaf surfaced. These women were found to be infected with rubella. With the immunization against rubella, within a few years many schools closed down nationwide due to the fight against rubella. This is a disease not eradicated, but controlled. Also, if you choose to not vaccinate, do NOT take your child(ren) ANYWHERE even if they have the slightest fever, rash, etc. It would be the responsible thing to do for the community. Thank you :)

Cassie - posted on 10/25/2009

I just want to add that "in the olden days" people were not fine without vaccines. Huge numbers of people died everyday of diseases that are preventable today because of vaccines. If more and more parents continue not vaccinating their children, we will see these illnesses make a comeback and claim the lives of children and adults that could have been protected with vaccinations.

Cassa - posted on 10/25/2009

My husband and I are in the same boat. We are beginning to talk about it again. My 1 year old hasn't had anything yet. I know it sounds wierd but Jenny McCarthy has done a lot of research and has some great ideas. I know...wierd...