What qualifies as "Pagan"?

Arie - posted on 11/09/2012

Am I the only one who thinks this original post was mainly an immature jab?



Though the discussion on what qualifies as Pagan is very interesting. I have participated in the rituals of other Pagan traditions a few times and generally felt that despite our differences I recognized a core sense and atmosphere. It is hard to define but it was there. Even when I felt that some people were judgmental and did not accept me as part of their group, I still felt that their earth-based spirituality was akin to mine. One group I visited was extremely into angels and that somehow didn't resonate with me but other than they were alright, until they decided I was not cool enough for their group. This has much more to do with who their being young and into what is "cool" than with what I or they believed. I hope we can develop a mutually supportive community. For crying out loud, we can do better than the Christian Fundamentalists who raised my niece to believe that Catholics are not Christian. :P

Angela - posted on 08/29/2011

I follow where the Goddess leads me. Being a Pagan is not a label. I believe that you "must" believe with your heart and be open to be guided by The Great Spirit.
That and much reading and researching and questions. It is a learning experience and we learn every day.
May you find your path and direction. Bright blessings to you

Julie - posted on 08/28/2011

Blessed Be Sister.
Being a Pagan as nothing to do with your birthday in the time of the burning a pagan was anyone who followed the old ways the Celtic way of life. Someone who refused to give up the old Wisdom and convert to Christianity. Wicca is the Modern term for those that follow the old ways it is a belief system however just like Christianity it has many groups within that belief system some follow the Norse pantheon some the Egyptian some the Druid etc the list goes on. Unlike christianity we believe that everyone as the right the believe and follow as they so choose just as all humans are individuals so are our beliefs. What we are not is Satanist we do not follow the dark lord we believe that their is good and bad in all of us it is up to us how we use our knowledge we can choose to help each other or destroy. We follow the old ways of herbal medication living of the land alongside nature caring for our environment and the World and people around us.

A white Witch can choose to be a solitary White Witch or join a coven of a particular pantheon belief I follow Isis and Osirius e tc. A white witch will study as an initiate for 1 year and a day then they are given a craft name or choose their own name. The study does not stop you will study for the rest of your life it is a way of life some are vegetarian or vegan it is not necessary many choose to eat meat asking for blessings and thanking the animal that as given its life so we may eat. However they would never kill for the sake of it and would only kill to eat not sport. I hope this answers some questions I'm 8th Generation I follow the old ways of the craft. 8 words the Wiccan rede fulfil. Do what you will but do no harm. for every kindness you show comes back thrice fold (3) for ever negative act the same.

With Love and Light
Amethyst

Jessica - posted on 08/26/2011

I was guided back to this post with a clear head. I tend to do two things when I am talking about anything that scares me to talk about. I ramble, beat around the bush, and crack jokes that REALLY are not that funny. It was a habit I started with the purpose of chasing other pagans away by letting them think me the fool(with a fool no season spend). Originally, this was to save them from a family member(now dead) who told others(who hunted pagans, naturals more specifically). I met one girl in high school, who knew something was "up". I just acted even more crazy and continued to use perceived terms used by Christians. I could not remember most of anything, even from the day before. Part of me can... and always could. I did this as the opposite of the fool they thought I was, but no-one bothered to look any deeper.

I finally freed myself as I once did. I chose my path before I even knew what it was. Many of you probably already know this from reading posts I have put up. I will leave that part out here, as that is not the point.

I have seen the best and worst of many different paths, and been on the receiving end of many horrible things that should never happen.

I was taught the old teachings very young, and have worked hard to recover my memory for a long time. I remember it. My mothers high priestess pulled rank to teach me. Regardless of what my mother believed I was taught very young, and things, responsibilities that should have waited, regardless of the death date on my head(which I survived after a... I can only say a truly magikal moment), and I was weighed down by it.

They day my father died, I blocked that out too. My mother left them and taught me as she originally intended... to follow what I would, but remember that regardless my familial duty to pass on the old tales to those of blood would remain. That is our only binding in our family. Only one child is required it, however she allowed us both and changed what her mother would have pushed on us. we didn't have to believe them, just pass them on.

That was the first, but not the last time my life was effected by the not so great side of paganism.

My dad was killed for being a pagan. He managed to find his path as wiccan and military. I am proud he managed to come to peace with that path, and even find it. He was the strongest papa ever, until those people stole his life away. He could have moved, but I did not understand why he wanted me to run. He had never used that tone before, and I had no idea what it meant. I was injured and in shock. I stood still. to move would mean intstead of him, I would die instead. I remember him telling me, he used to wonder why he kept his vow not to kill, and then mom had me, and he looked into my eyes and could not bear to take the life of someone who could possibly be looked at with eyes like mine. I am proud to have known my papa. I may have lost all photos but... my memory will remain. He was the strongest and best papa ever... and they took him away before I could tell him that. I was five.

Later on in life, my mother found her path and had another little one for us to love, then we were three.

My relative had other plans. She spoke to my sisters father who at first refused, but after my mother decided to leave him(he hit her) he accepted the family members offer. The coroner ruled it a natural death. two young children witnessed otherwise.

Our godmother was pagan. this family member alerted a local group, and made plans. The family member came and took us(kidnapped). The group she made a deal with, burned our godmothers home. A five year old little girl was still inside. her only blood daughter, who was too sick to get out of bed. she had gone to the drug store to get medicine. Till the day I die, I will never understand how or why, but the blazing building did not burn me but instead felt safe(like a hug), the kitten got out, and the one I still call sister was safe.

Even after that, my life was littered with things that should never be done or received unto one old or young as I was.

The family member did things to attempt to help her find those who celebrated with my mother, I managed to not tell about anything, but in the process forget everything, even my own name. sometimes i wasn't even sure of that.

At one point all I remembered was my own birthday and name. Nothing else. From that point, that family member did things to me, that are not allowed to be done to adult war criminals... things that I still dream of. I can only thank that at the time, as I said, my memories were not being retained into surface consciousness. I only remembered what I was told to remember by the family member. My name, birthday, and the bare essentials as such.

I was drugged up and "lent out"(the restriction being to maintain my "purity" as a technical virgin, when I was sixteen she sold that too)... beaten, sliced up, medically used to get the meds she needed for the purposes she used me for, and even she did horrible things to me with her own two hands, she was even worse than them.

I have been beaten, battered, scared, and broken.

Humanity itself has shown me it's worst.

My children and my mothers memory[my memory of her], my fathers memory too... show me the best.

On my path of my spirituality, I learn different terms so that I can explain the inevitable when they ask about the pentacle I do not hide.

I found my path again shortly after I left.

my path has not been easy. my greatest wish... learn from it.

i would dance and sing sky-clad if i wasn't so scared of most humans. i am slowly coming out of that cage of fear. someday.

i believe that as long as you are you, every pagan needs to remember, no-matter how unpleasant, no-matter how much you separate it... every part of you takes a part in making you pagan... not just the rules.

please learn from this pain, and what caused it. to me, being a healer, a teacher, a protector... that is my path as a pagan, as a wiccan, as a healer.

Jessica - posted on 06/20/2011

Nope. Pretty sure I am wiccan. I am a proud priestess on my given aspect (pantheon, guardian... what other terms did I miss?). Pretty sure that although a piece of the gods and goddesses resides in all of us that we don't actually BECOME them... sorry. tried to be as generic as possible (used to being surrounded by judgmental Christians and closed minded people who require explanations for everything only to tell you your going to hell... or that magik isn't real or they would have already won the lottery... ect...)

Julie - posted on 06/17/2011

In answer to your question no on both counts Each journey is as individual as the person studying I have been a daughter of Isis which is the pantheon I follow some follow the celt path some the norse we do not become a goddess we searve the goddess & her lord I have been a believer since the age of 2 I'm 8th generation and now in my 52nd year and still studying my craft and will continue to do so until I make my next journey when I cross over. Everyone as a right to believe as they wish if you choose to believe that your a goddess no one as a right to tell you you can't follow that belief It is important in the craft to find our own way each journey is different and changing.

Blessed be to you on your journey
with love and light
Wiccan/Pagan group

Tanya - posted on 09/17/2009

I am also just starting out w/ paganism. I was raised Catholic, but never really felt comfortable w/ it. I express to my daughter who is 4, that she can follow whatever religion she wants. But at the same time, teach both my children,( also have a 2 yr. old son), to respect nature. I'm starting to explain to my daughter some Native Am. traditions. Way back in my family tree, I've been told I have Nat. Am, unfortunately it's so far back, I don't know what tribe. I've read some books on Wicca and Pagan religions, but I would like to explain more to my children. I think it is such a beautiful religion,(sorry if I sound corny!) Does anyone have any suggestions?

Crystal - posted on 07/23/2009

blessed be

Crystal - posted on 07/23/2009

when i say pagan i mean like wiccan ...its a religion

Caroline - posted on 02/01/2009

hello sisters, this is caroline from spain, a british ex pat. i cant say that i have ever practised any formal do's or dont's, however, having read and seen things regarding pagan, wicca i feel this is the closest i have ever come to naming my religion or beliefs is my utter and absolute core belief that the universe will provide, not allways what i want, but ALWAYS what i need, its up to me to see the lesson ma nature is teaching me. I feel priveledged to be a tiny speck on this planet, and in every thing i do, i try and think, "what would ma nature do?" and act accordingly. i endeavour to put as more back into the world that i take out, and have faith that we are all part of the chain and very matrix of life. May each and every one of you be blessed with everything you require, and may ma nature and the universe in their wisdom gift you with whatever you need. Blessed Be, (I like that).I would be pleased and blessed to learn more about pagan and wicca and welcome any thoughts anyone can offer me. thank you xxx

Kaela - posted on 01/19/2009

Blessed Be to you also :)

Sarah - posted on 01/19/2009

Quoting Kaela:

Sarah I hope you don't hold on to your sadness for too long. We are all just on a journey, learning as we go. Your quote above is perfect and resonates with what I too believe.

Blessed Be x

Lucy - posted on 01/18/2009

I guess I don't want to be labeled, I just dance in step with the pulse of the Earth.

What a beutiful thing to say I would love to dance as well ! I choose to follow the path I am on because it feels right and I chosen to accpet and define my spirituality in a differnt way. for a long time i chose to not have a label and reveled in it and that is needed as well. I Love diversity in all it's glory. With out how can we understand the differences in everyone and learn from them ? I belive tolerance starts with yourself.

I think with all of us the one thing we all have in common is the desire to make our lives full of joy to find a deeper understand of ourselves. it was not intended to "label everyone" into my beliefs ! Words have so much power ! and yet if placed incorrectly can be misconstrued !

Kaela - posted on 01/18/2009

Sarah I hope you don't hold on to your sadness for too long. We are all just on a journey, learning as we go. Your quote above is perfect and resonates with what I too believe.

Sarah - posted on 01/18/2009

Quoting Carole:

The one thing about paganism is there are no rules!this is what sets it apart from other religions.no one can tell you you are more or less pagan than anyone else,as long as you harm none and love the world and nature that surrounds you it doesn't matter that your beliefs are slightly different from other wiccans /pagans. I myself am interested in the Norse traditions but also use the other pantheons too,if your happy in what you do and believe carry on!

My thoughts exactly.......I must say i was deeply saddened at the number of replies i had to read before i found someone who to my mind truely understands the ethos of paganism.

Kaela - posted on 01/15/2009

I'm with you both Holly and Sheila. I don't want to be label either. My spiritual practices are a personal thing. I too am here to learn. Thank you both and lets dance! :)

S - posted on 01/14/2009

Free Spirit Holly, I would love to dance with you. It would seem to me that the heart of this thread is not really about what qualifies one as pagan, but that it is more about how this group functions, and I have been watching with some curiostiy.  I'm looking for community, stimulation and a tolerant, open minded environment.. I don't like to be labelled, either; I find it confining and I find intellectual posturing to be rather stifling, although it can be amusing at times. Religion is a very personal thing, and it would seem that among pagans, there are even more ways to catagorize ourselves, and each other, but that's not what I'm here for.. I believe that we potentially have much to teach each other, and I am ready to contribute, and learn from each of you, Sisters.

Holly - posted on 01/14/2009

I guess I don't want to be labeled, I just dance in step with the pulse of the Earth.

Renee - posted on 01/13/2009

Personally, I think the word "qualify" is misleading, after all, religion isn't like qualifying for a house loan, you know? There's no set criteria that one *must* meet "all of the above" before they call themselves Pagan.



That said, there are somethings that most Pagans across the board agree/believe. Most (but not all) are polytheist, aknowledge that dieties come in the male and female variety, and hold some beliefs that mirror ideas pre-Christianity.



So from what you have said you could be Pagan or you could be an eco-friendly agnostic :-) That's really up to you and the Gods.

Holly - posted on 01/13/2009

I believe in worshiping our mother earth and taking care of our planet.  I don't believe that there is a Jesus that rose from the dead for our sins.  I feel that christians have been fooled.  I wouldn't necessaraly call my self a Pegan.  What do you think?  What do you think I qualify as?

Elizabeth - posted on 12/21/2008

I think it's less about telling people what to believe or do and more about the realization that Neopagan is not all inclusive. There are things that are not pagan, and there's nothing wrong with that. And inside paganism, yes you should follow the rules of a path if you call yourself a follower of that particular path. Like I would say that I have practiced in a wicca-like style, but would not claim to have been Wiccan, as I don't believe that practicing from a book would qualify. (any more than reading the catechism and using parts would make me Catholic).

Carole - posted on 12/21/2008

i agree,well said jesse,blessed be!

Kaela - posted on 12/18/2008

Well said Jesse! thank you!

Jesse - posted on 12/18/2008

According to wiki-dictionary:"Pantheistic or nature-worshipping,Relating to, characteristic of or adhering to religions other than Christianity" .

Google: "a person who follows a polytheistic or pre-Christian religion (not a Christian or Muslim or Jew) ".Dictionary.com : "pertaining to the worship or worshipers of any religion that is neither Christian, Jewish, nor Muslim."

Yourdictionary.com "a person who worships nature or the earth, specif., one who practices a form of worship in imitation of any of various religions that historically preceded Christianity"

OK so there is the closet teacher in me rearing her ugly head.

The very Not-in-the-closet Pagan in me balks at the idea that anyone should define my beleif in creation for me. I think the common thread i sense running through this particular debate is that we have all chosen to define ourselves and our beliefs in Our Own Way.

Kaela - posted on 12/17/2008

Renee,
What you're saying is not difficult to understand. It's the perceived tone I'm having trouble with. I also struggle with the idea that to be a pagan there are things one "must" do. If someone is questioning their path lets encourage them not judge them.

Renee - posted on 12/17/2008

Not all Pagans follow the "it's an earth based religion" or that it's "Goddess centered"...those concepts are Wiccan, and like it or not, most books out there for Pagan beginners are Wiccan based. And like the saying goes: all Wiccans are Pagan, but not all Pagans are Wiccan. I don't follow the Wheel of the Year, the Wiccan Rede "An ye harm none, do what thy will", the Lord and Lady, etc.



And I stand by my statements. It's not religious intolarance or this silly idea that because someone follows a different Pagan path than I, that I am some how snubbing my nose. No, I am being logical. A person is not qualified to be Christian if they happen to be born on December 25th, so the same logic stands for Patty's question...and just because a person considers themselves to be a diety does not make them so. How hard is that?



I don't know how long most of you have been studying/practicing, but I have been for well over a decade. I've done the Wiccan thing, both coven (second degree) and solitaire, and I have moved on to other Pagan studies (Roman). I know people from all over the Pagan traditions map and I love learning about it all. And through it all, logic and reason is the cornerstone of learning. Sometimes I think we need more of that in Paganism.

Kaela - posted on 12/17/2008

Simply stated Pagan spirituality is Earth based. I was raised Catholic but no longer consider myself Catholic. I celebrate the changing seasons, the phases of the moon, I honor the cycles of my body and recognize the interconnectedness of everything.

I have explore several different Pagan paths and consider my spiritual/religious practices to be eclectic. One thing I struggle with in any religion is someone telling me that I am wrong because I do not believe what they believe. Pagan is a broad term that covers many "religions". Wicca is just one of those traditions.

My partner is Native American. Native American beliefs are very much Pagan beliefs. Many of our spiritual practices compliment each other and enrich both our spiritual paths. The Native Americans honor Mother Earth and and all who dwell here. The animals, trees, plants, everything.

If we want religious tolerance shouldn't we start with our own religion and tolerate not only those who practice a different kind of Paganism but also those who surround us that are definitively not Pagan.

Patty - I commend you for your curiousity about your own spiritual path and encourage you to explore Paganism more. There are many resources from which to choose. The larger group of Pagans hold different beliefs just as the larger group of Christians or any other religion.

I'm with Lucy "Do as thou wilt AND harm none"

S - posted on 12/04/2008

Blessed Be!

Lucy - posted on 12/03/2008

opps !

Do as thou wilt and harm none

Lucy - posted on 12/03/2008

I believe that there are as many paths to the divine as there are people. There is wisdom to be found in every religion. That no one day or person is more important than the others. We are all connected to each other and we all come from the goddess.Each woman is a reflection of the nature of the Goddess and each man is the other half of the whole; the reflection of the God.

To define yourself as a pagan is not easy with the diversity of pagan paths. I choose to call myself Wiccan. Because i believe in the duality in nature the need for both a male and female energy to create and give the gift of life. Really we were all a thought or a feeling to begin with a deep desire on one level or another.

I also feel that we are all guided for what is right for us at the time. what was right 10 years ago may no longer apply today. I feel that to follow a pagan or Wiccan path is to come to a deeper understanding of your own spirituality and acceptance of yourself as a woman or man and the god or Goddess in us all

"Do as thou wilt and ye shall Harm none"

S - posted on 12/03/2008

Yes there are "set" ways to do things within specific traditions, but I get the feeling that there are some of us (myself) who do not follow any tradition to the letter, but borrow and use what appeals to our own values, and even design our own rituals. Do I qualify? I'm here,so I must believe that I do...There also may be newcomers who are just beginning to define themselves as pagan....I would like to encourage them to find their path. Or people like my Polish grandmother who was a devout Catholic, who practiced her religion in a mystical way, using ceremonies with incense, candles and icons, and blessed talismans. She was an inspiration to me, and I would call her pagan (although she's probably turning over in her grave right now...) I believe there are almost as many ways to define pagan as there are pagans.

As for whether a person can "be" a deity, this to me is an open question. There certainly is in many religious traditions precedent for the idea of deity manifesting in humans. I actually don't think that Patty meant it literally, but if she did, that is between her and the universe. I believe her question was, do I qualify to be a member your circle? I can only speak for myself, and my answer is yes.

Renee - posted on 11/29/2008

But the thing is, there are rules, there are set ways to do things. Within Wicca there are actually 161 laws they are supposed to follow. Each Tradition has its own norms, mores, and taboos. It's not a free-for-all as much as people think it is.



And one is: birthdays don't determine what religion you are. Think about it: if a Jewish child is born on December 25, that does not "qualify" them as Christian. So why would being born on December 21 "qualify" someone as Pagan? It's absurd.



And if somone is asking what " qualifies" them to be Pagan and then states they concider themselves a Pagan Goddess, I would hope someone would speak up and say "hold on a second, what do you mean?".



This has nothing to do with meeting certain criteria or not, or following a different tradition that another, this is being realistic. Humans are not Dieties. And certainly not a person who is asking if they "qualify".

Carole - posted on 11/29/2008

The one thing about paganism is there are no rules!this is what sets it apart from other religions.no one can tell you you are more or less pagan than anyone else,as long as you harm none and love the world and nature that surrounds you it doesn't matter that your beliefs are slightly different from other wiccans /pagans. I myself am interested in the Norse traditions but also use the other pantheons too,if your happy in what you do and believe carry on!

S - posted on 11/27/2008

I believe if you consider yourself a Pagan Goddess, then you qualify as you define it. Whether others will feel you meet the specific criteria that they have set as their won definition is an open question-it no doubt depends on who you ask. As for myself, I know that we already share that connection-that we define ourselves as pagan. Hello, Sister.

Heather - posted on 11/27/2008

There are as many definitions of 'Pagan' as there are Pagans. Traditionally a Pagan is someone who is not Christian, Muslim or Jewish. That is why the term Neo-Pagan came about; it distinguished non-Abraham beliefs and Nature/Goddess centered beliefs.

I personally don't think that a Pagan must be Polytheist, many (Wiccan's anyone?) are Duo-Theist, and some are monotheist. I personally am a pagan Pantheist.

Jesse - posted on 11/25/2008

Interesting question Patty and thanks .

It is a subject of some debate . I have had practicing wiccans tell me in no uncertain terms that I am not pagan because I do not follow a strictly wiccan path. In mt mind this is not the case.

I am a Metis woman which, for those he do not know, means I am the product of cree grandmothers who 'married' european trappers and produced children who are of mixed race. Both my parents and my ex husband are metis. So for many generations we are 'mutts' The traditions in my family come from many different sources but predominatly celtic and non-christian and activ;y aboriginal.

It is the metis way to take the best of both worlds. And I have done this in a completly non christian way. Both of my traditions pre-date christianity by thousands of years. In my opinion that is the key to defining myself as pagan.

Renee - posted on 11/24/2008

Okay...



No, your birthday doesn't qualify you as Pagan, anymore than a person born on July 4 as an American patriot. To be Pagan, one must be polytheist and follow a religion/tradition that holds some resemblance to that practiced pre-Christianity.



And by considering yourself a Pagan Goddess, what do you mean? Surely you are speaking figuratively or metaphorically and not literally. In some teachings, it is believe we possess the smallest of bits of The Goddess, but no one is actually a Goddess.