A license to profile.....what is this world coming to..

Tah - posted on 04/20/2010 ( 45 moms have responded )

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The senate just passed a bill that allows officers in arizona to stop people on suspicion of being illegal aliens....I think this is a dangerous step...the law used to be that they could question your status, but it had to be if you were stopped for another crime...so now profiling is being made legal...it's not like its not happening already, but to give a license to do it is going into dangerous territory and I am seriously thinking about moving to Mars myself. I am not oblivious to other races and cultures etc being discriminated against and I think goverment sanctioned profiling of any one group is a abuse of power and a recipe for disaster...

Your thought>>>>

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Suzette - posted on 04/20/2010

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My parents live in Arizona, she says it's being misunderstood entirely. It's not racial profiling. Right now when you're pulled over there, they can't ask if you're a citizen there. But the bill is about giving the local law enforcement the RIGHT to ask if they have suspicion... only if they already have a reason to pull them over. (Not race!)

Border patrol are the only ones who can pull them over based upon suspicions of legality. So this is being extremely blown out of proportion.

I also asked if it's been passed yet, they have until saturday to sign or veto. So it's not passed yet. ;)

LaCi - posted on 04/28/2010

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This thread just made me suicidal. I'm pretty ashamed to be American, most times, especially lately when I hear anti-everyone else sentiment. I'm not sure how much I've actually written here, theres another thread on this in political debating moms.

Suzette - posted on 04/22/2010

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@Amy, That's why they'll likely be asking everyone. You can't tell who is legal and who isn't. But they will have the right to ask, just like border patrol has already been doing for years. It's been working for them, though I've heard that there are people who complain. Of course lots of people complain about things... it doesn't mean that it doesn't work.

I do know what Arizona has now isn't working. There are border patrol agents assaulted, some dying, and citizens (innocent) in their homes assaulted. If it means that people get their feelings hurts because they get pulled over and asked if they're legal (even those that are - since I'm sure they'll be questioned too) then so be it. Personally, I'd rather stop the deaths and assaults from happening, even if it's only by a percentage and not completely.

@LaCi, I don't think ALL illegal immigrants are bad. I've met some rather nice ones before, that doesn't mean that they should be here illegally though. I agree that they should have to go through the process, regardless of how draining it might be. Divorce processes aren't easy, (I know that firsthand), neither is going to a new college (again, firsthand), all these things take time... anything worth it will take time. There are illegal immigrants coming over that are single people who have no families (no children or wife), again those that I've met.

@Kati, I know I can see both sides of the story for some illegal immigrants as well. Especially those who are trying to do the best for their children. I wish the process was easier for them, but then it wouldn't be fair for everyone. And, I'm all for Canada cracking down on the Americans that are slipping over there to take advantage of their Health Care too. I've heard about scams that are run there by Americans because of health care in the past. Personally, I find their stories heart breaking, but at the same time, I don't think it's right that we're wanting fairness in our immigration system but we have Americans scamming another country. I believe if they're caught, they should be prosecuted. Then again, that's just my point of view. :)

Unfortunately when you see both sides to the situation, sometimes the only way to jump the fence to one side (so to speak lol) is if you personally know how one side is affected. I think understanding both sides is a start though! :)

LaCi - posted on 04/22/2010

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You do pick up and move if you feel the place you are currently in is hopeless. Thats why people flee their own country. I have to sympathize with that. They want better lives for themselves, for their children, and they can't always find that where they are. They know they can find jobs here. They've let millions of dollars of lettuce crops rot here because of crackdowns in illegal immigration, it was cheaper to let things rot than to hire citizens. They all have jobs available, they just might not have the good jobs available to them which is what we tend to look for. Migrant farmworkers can't really list employment as their reason for immigrating, although we did destroy mexicos farming industry so they SHOULD be able to use it as their reason

LaCi - posted on 04/22/2010

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Arizona is also part of the mexican drug transport route, but to say all illegal immigrants are dangerous is just silly to me. I'm glad there was clarification that they can't be pulled over just for being hispanic. That makes it much more reasonable to me.

Becoming a citizen IS difficult, there are caps on how many people are allowed in, 700,000 currently. The priority is given to those who have family here, and those that have employment reasons for immigration. We have smaller caps on the amount of refugees we allow in for political asylum, and millions are left being denied citizenship because they don't take priority or the government feels they have nothing to offer our country. It is NOT just about filling out appropriate paperwork.

Illegal immigration estimates included we have less than 1% population growth, and without illegal immigration it is estimated we would experience major population decline.

"Immigrants, both legal and illegal do not raise the rate of crime in the United States and native born Americans are five times more likely to be incarcerated than immigrants.[142] In a study released by the non-partisan research group The Public Policy Institute of California immigrants (legal and illegal) were ten times less likely to be incarcerated than native born Americans.[143]"

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Suzette - posted on 04/28/2010

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Tracey, I lived and was raised in Arizona as well, and I have to completely disagree with you.

"yeah ok i think that stopping just anyone because they are Hispanic to question if they are legal is maybe not ok."

The law is NOT about their race. If it were, I would be completely against it. The law copied the federal law that was already in place and put it down as a state law. Why? Because the federal law wasn't being enforced. The state law states that they have the right to ask for identification. This is the site where you (or anyone here on the thread) can go to see what is required to get an Arizona Driver's License.
http://mvd.azdot.gov/mvd/formsandpub/vie...

This means that, unless the license is fake, when the officer runs it through the system, it will show up as to whether they're legal or not. This is the same for ID cards.

"But if you are legal you should not have a problem with it."
Really? IF it were racial profiling, I'd have a problem with it. My Dad is Hispanic and he's legal, so is my entire family. But if this were racial profiling, I would have a severe problem with it. I don't because it's not racial profiling... not because he's "legal so it's no big deal."

@LaCi the only time I'm ashamed to be an American is when I see/hear people bashing my husband's career or doing something like has been done on this thread. This misinterpretation of this bill/law is asinine. There is room for abuse in every law out there, Including the "knock and announce rule (4th Amendment)." (If you've seen any of the Supreme Court rulings on that one, you know that already.)

LaCi - posted on 04/28/2010

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"only the criminals have something to worry about" is an entirely totalitarian idea.

Tracey - posted on 04/27/2010

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yeah know what i lived and was raised in Arizona and yeah ok i think that stopping just anyone because they are Hispanic to question if they are legal is maybe not ok. but if you are legal then you should not have a problem with it. i mean there are people who were born and raised here who can not get government help because the state is helping way to many people, plus it sometimes takes longer to get that help. i mean they are human beings but they come here and are not getting that legal status, but are using the help our government is giving out. and our taxes pay for that help. i mean we speak english and now some schools are making it a requirement for our young children to learn spanish. i mean its ok if the child want to learn it. but why do we have to learn spanish to speak with them if they wont bother to learn our language. plus a lot of jobs are being given to them because they will take that job at a lower pay, but there are homeless that would love to take that job. i mean really, i understand there are a lot of different types of people here and cultures in the US and in Arizona and if you honestly want to be here do it the right way. illegal is illegal

Amber - posted on 04/27/2010

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Ok...I am 100% against illegal aliens being in this country. Do you know that America is one of the ONLY countries that grants citizenship to a person on the sole basis of them being born here? Lots of other countries will NOT give a person citizenship unless 1 of their parents are citizens of that country.



Somebody made them comment (I'm not going to go find it bc I forgot where it was) that illegal aliens do not draw on social welfare. Really? Bc my hunny works in an ER and their are constantly illegal aliens there seeking treatment. They have no health care and cannot go to a regular doctor, however the ER cannot turn them away. So, he has to treat these people and do you think they pay the hospital when their bill comes? NOPE. The tax payers end up picking up a good portion of that tab.



I do not believe that you should be pulled over for the sole basis of seeing if you have legal documents to be here. But if you are pulled over already, then they should be able to ask you for proper documentation. And if they find out that you are here illegally, you should immediately be shipped back to the country you came from. You had children while you were here? Too bad. You BROKE THE LAW. You shouldn't have been here to begin with. They can choose to take them or allow them to be raised here in the US, but they should not, under any circumstances be allowed to stay. Why reward them for breaking the law? It is absolutely unacceptable.

Suzette - posted on 04/23/2010

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The bill was signed into effect. Apparently the president is having a caniption as well, asking the Justice Dept to find a way to see if it's illegal.

Here's what the bill does: It gives the local law enforcement the right to ask for documentation. They still have to have a reason to pull someone over to begin with though, it's not like they're going to say to themselves "Hey, there's someone that's a mexican or they look illegal, let's pull them over!" They have to have probable cause first. If they don't, they're in deep crap. Border Patrol has been doing this for years already... you don't see them racially profiling, trust me, they've pulled over my mexican cousin who looks like a white chick. By the way, it would be impossible to profile them based on brown skin alone. There's a lot of Spaniards (who are white with different colored hair) that come from Mexico illegally as well. Not to mention the mexicans who don't look mexican. It's impossible to tell who is from Mexico and who isn't unless you see documentation.
Back to what the bill does... lol. It is illegal, on a federal level, for immigrants to be here illegally... this bill makes it illegal on a state level as well. They felt the need to do this because it's not being enforced on a federal level. And there is a need to enforce it on a state level, a huge need.

They come over and work there in Arizona, send their full paychecks back to Mexico, (not spending money there), while getting government assistance. They also have one of the malls there that goes to Sonora Mexico and picks people up, giving them special deals to shop. Deals that the citizens there don't get. They also have workers there that go back to Sonora and spend all the money that they've made in Arizona in Sonora. They're not putting money back into the economy. They're at the point that they're sending out IOU's for state taxes because their economy is trashed. I don't know if all people are getting these, I know that my parents and a few people they know did though. Our family has friends who are there legally as well, it didn't take them that long to get there legally either. One of them is an entire family, 3 kids the father and the mother.

Yes, I feel badly for those that want to come over, but not all of them are able to get over legally. Some of them are criminals with aliases where they've mixed and matched their names with their family members' names and they're running either from Mexican law enforcement or from family obligations there. I firmly believe anything worth having is worth working for and waiting for. If they're not willing to wait for it, they don't want it that bad and deserve to get sent back. If that's harsh, well so be it. It's not just about the work, it's about the drain on the economy. If they were working and putting that money back into that economy, I wouldn't have such a problem with it. But they're not.

I agree with you Kati, I see it as a specific group of people. If I saw it as racial profiling well then I'd be profiling my entire family... that'd be a little racist of me I think. LOL.

And, if this is racial profiling, aren't we doing the same thing in the airports for security purposes as well? I don't see that as racial profiling, I see that as a specific group also. They're terrorists and it's not just middle easterners either, we have Americans that are right on their bandwagon! Just like we have Americans (coyotes) on the bandwagon with the Mexicans coming here illegally.

Rosie - posted on 04/23/2010

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i do lean more towards them coming here legally, i just can't help but feel compassion for all those WORKERS at the meat plant here in iowa. they worked hard for years, and paid taxes. but the ones who aren't here legally and don't work and pay taxes, do bug me a bit.

like i said before i think "profiling" is necessary sometimes. if canadians were coming here in drones, killing people, ans assaulting people in their homes, you can bet i'd be all for profiling all the white people on the border states of canada that had these problems. i don't really see it as a race thing, i see it as a specific group of people. just like when a woman gets murdered the first people that the police question and investigate is the husband or boyfriend. are they now prejudiced against all husbands and boyfriends or even men? no,of course not. statistically the husband or boyfriend is proven to be the one to do it, and it doesn't make sense to look anywhere else first. just as it doesn't make sense to look at any other group of people since mexicans are the ones committing the crime.

Melissa - posted on 04/22/2010

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I think someone is trying to solve of fix our illegal alien problem, but its too late for that.

Jessica - posted on 04/22/2010

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Canada is awsome ♥ I feel pretty lucky living here considering what goes on around this crazy world.

Rosie - posted on 04/22/2010

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i can agree with that suzette. i havn't heard of any of them crazy canadians (just so you canadians are aware i'm completely joking, :) causing problems. sometimes i feel like going to canada to escape the usa. wonder what they'd do to me? lol!



i'm definitely seeing both sides of this, that's why i have no good solution. i'm no help am i?

Amy - posted on 04/22/2010

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I think it's wrong. How would they decide who is or isn't an illegal alien just by looking at them? America is full of all different kinds of people who are legal residence, they'll pull over way too many people who shouldn't have been.

Amanda - posted on 04/22/2010

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I can understand what you mean, and I've never been in the situation where anything besides myself was holding me back, so I don't know how that is. I still feel it shouldn't be too easy to become a citizen though. I also think that a lot of citizens need to get off their high horse and act like those jobs aren't good enough for them, but yet they have no job, and expect the government to help them out.

Amanda - posted on 04/22/2010

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Becoming a citizen should be hard... we are already more than overpopulated here without the help of illegal immigrants. Plus if you don't have the money to live somewhere and don't have a job lined up, why would you try to move there? I would never move to a different state without money saved up so I could either get a job, or until my jobs paychecks started coming in, that's just not all that smart. You don't just pick up and move, knowing you don't have the money to support yourself while you get settled in.

Lady - posted on 04/22/2010

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For us it wasn't that hard because we had all the relevent paperwork and finances, but not all people do, that was the point. Now I suppose if you don't have what is needed then maybe you shouldn't be allowed in the country but I think some people were saying they thought immigration should be open to everyone because at the moment it's not that easy unless you have a lot of money and somewhere already to live and work!

Christi - posted on 04/22/2010

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I didn't think it was just a matter of go to an office, sign some papers, and you're good. But based on what you said it still isn't THAT hard, if you prepare yourself and know what you need. The list you gave looks the same as if you were transferring to a different college and setting up an apartment. You'd need basically the same paperwork- documents from your old school to your new one, bank statements to prove you can afford your apartment, proof of address to set up utilities (the utilities will likely ask for financial records as well to determine deposit), and vaccination records. All of which should be easily accessible except probably for the letter from the school. And anytime you're dealing with a bureaucracy you should plan on spending hours waiting.

I've never immigrated so I don't know how hard it is, but I've done my share of tracking down paperwork and then sitting and waiting in government offices. If I were to move to a different country, I'd still rather take the time to go there legally than to go illegally and be stealing from the people of that country while constantly having to watch my back for INS.

Lady - posted on 04/22/2010

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Christi Bybee;
Immigration IS open to anyone who wants in. It's not that hard to get citizenship or even a temporary visa. I'm pretty sure if they were shutting down legal immigration, we'd all be hearing about it.

It's not that easy, just to get a temprorary visa we had to have letters from the place my husband was going to be studying, bank statements to show we could provide for ourselves, proof of where we were going to be staying and vaccination records for the kids if they wanted to go to school. We had interviews at the embassy in London and were there all day. And even with all the correct paper work we were still questioned at the airport extensinely - and we're white and British. I can't imagine it's any easier if your a different colour and from a different country.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Kati, it's not really about their race. If it were, then I'd be racist against my family. (Which I personally find laughable, lol.) It's about the fact that they're causing so many problems. If the Canadians are causing problems in those border towns, well obviously something needs to be done there too. I don't know what they can do there, but they need to find some way to fix it. I'm sure that this won't only be a race thing either when the local law enforcement pulls people over either. Why not? Well, there's a whole lot of mexicans that don't look mexican. If you saw one of my cousins, who's full blooded mexican, she looks white. She has dark hair, green eyes, and she is very light skinned. She surely doesn't look mexican. And there's a lot of mexicans like that out there. I'm sure that border patrol and the law enforcement are aware that there are mexicans like that.

Jane - posted on 04/21/2010

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I lived in Southern California for many years before moving east a few states. I can tell you that it was VERY tiring knowing that 1/2 of the people around you were in our country illegally, that they could not speak English and didn't care to learn and were doing jobs that US Citizens could have used to support their families. While I'm not necessarily agreeing with profiling, SOMETHING has to be done with illegal people in this country and if this helps, well, then I guess I can live with that.

Amanda - posted on 04/21/2010

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lol... i dont think we have nearly as much of a problem with canadians coming across illegally as we do mexicans... buttt for the ones that do, go home lol come back when u go thru the process

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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okay i've been thinking alot, and i thought of another instance that bugs me. why the hell are we soooo worried about mexicans coming here? why are we sooo obsessed with race soooooo much, that we don't realize that them damn sneaky canadians are getting in this country as well? lol! they're white so they aren't immigrants?!

Amanda - posted on 04/21/2010

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omgosh suzette... i would freak on my mom if i found out she walked up to a group of ANY guys like that at night... i worry about my mom enough and she doesnt even have any risks like that, i would be VERY gray in the head if i were you lol i might open my window and chuck some sports bottles out REALLY fast and then lock it again, if i can see everyone and they are far away lol... im a chicken, and i already know i couldn't defend myself, hence the house alarm and the three dogs, haha.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Belinda, I can only imagine what it's like there. I know where my parents are it's actually illegal if they are caught denying them water. While I know it's wrong, I told my mom (and she's done it before) not to talk to them if they come up to the fence asking for water. There are times she's in the middle of nowhere, disabled, on 5 acres. If a group of people (mostly men) who don't speak any english came up to you demanding anything, while you're alone and unable to defend yourself if need be, would you go up to them with water? I wouldn't! Like I said, it's a good thing she's got guard dogs. She runs in the house, locks the doors, and calls Border patrol, thankfully the border patrol is very avid in her area because it's so far out. But there's always reports of things going on in that area, the runners and such. So yes, something needs to be done, and if this will help... then I'm all for it.

Belinda - posted on 04/21/2010

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I cannot imagine being on a land border. You hear of all the shootings and things by the illegal migrants and those who promise them passage into the US. Desperate people are dangerous people. Here in KW it is water and Cubans/Haitians, but the sentiment is the same. SOMETHING needs to be done. What I am not sure.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Thank you for clarifying Tah! They're not going to be profiling though, at least not from what Arizonan's are understanding. (The ones who are paying attention from what I'm told... LOL) My Dad, and whole family really, would surely be against it if they were. I guess the media is sensationalizing this, as they do everything, so they've got it out as racial profiling.



What it really is, is that when a person is pulled over for probable cause, like swerving, broken taillight, etc. then that officer can ask if they are a citizen and to see the green card, visa, etc. A lot of Arizonan's thought that the local law enforcement already had this right... turns out border patrol are the only ones that can stop you based on legality of citizenship. (I thought local law enforcement could too!) A lot of people are against it, calling it racial profiling because, well, how many officers are going to ask a white person? (Truthfully, in parts of Arizona, white people are the minority, but that's a different subject... lol)



I honestly think that this could be a good idea, only because so many other things have failed to help Arizona citizens (both the legal immigrants and the natural U.S. citizens). I also believe that unless you've lived there for a long length of time, it's seriously hard to understand what it can be like in those cities/towns close to the border.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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i will not be closing this post..but i would like to state my reasons for starting it since it has been said that i am obsessed with race.

We have been looking at racism and discrimination in my sociology class. We were assigned to watch a movie "a day without a mexican" and had to write a paper on it. So when i saw at the gym while trying to talk myself into 10 more minutes on the elliptical. that arizona was allowed to now profile on just suspicion..i thought it would be a good topic..i have started many many topics all over COM and these are the only 2 having to do with race. I just wanted to clear that up.

happy debating...

Suzette - posted on 04/20/2010

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LaCi
(I know this was in reply to someone else... but here's my reply to that... lol)
"Thats actually not true. Most illegal immigrants do NOT use social programs because they don't realize that they can. However, they DO contribute by working for low wages which allows product costs to go down for all of us, and they DO spend money which means they are paying sales tax and contributing more to state economy than they are given credit for. Not to mention IF they aren't paying taxes- if they had paid taxes and filed for returns at the wages they receive they would get more back from the government than they ever put in. But factually, MANY illegal immigrants do pay taxes and do not file a return leaving a surplus of money in the government, they do not receive assistance even though the do pay into the programs."

First, in Tucson AZ that's not especially true. They do use these programs, they know they can, and they don't always put money back into the economy there. In fact, because Tucson isn't so far from the border, they go back across the border and spend the money they make from the U.S. there. Even if they are receiving some type of assistance and working for low wages, they still use whatever money they're making in Mexico.

It is especially dangerous for border patrol in Tucson. They've been shot at, had rocks thrown at them (amongst other things), and they've been ganged up on by illegal immigrants. There was a man who was killed, a farmer, recently. (I can't remember how recently but my mother lives near on the outskirts of Tucson and she told me about the guy who was killed.) He was actually one of the guys that if an illegal immigrant came to his fence, he would give them water and food, then call border patrol. Someone called him, his brother I believe, asked if he was going to come to his house, as scheduled, and he informed his brother that he'd have to wait because he had someone there who needed water. (it's actually illegal if they refuse them water... it's dangerous to even associate with most illegal immigrants if you live on the outskirts as they will steal from you and beat the crap out of you... it's been done a million times over.) Anyway, two hours later when he hadn't heard anything and he couldn't get his brother on the phone, they went searching. (He had called the cops.) They found his brother hunched over on his ATV, dead. It's not the first time this has happened either. Where my mom lives border patrol is constantly out there because of how many coyotes (the people who run immigrants across the border) there are and because of how many are just walking through the desert on their own. My mom has had people come up to their fence demanding water, trying to get in her yard. Thankfully she has dogs who are VERY protective. Without them I have no idea what would happen to my parents, I don't trust these people at all because they get extremely violent. They've wandered up to people's houses banging on doors, demanding to be let in, etc.

There has to be an end to it!

" People need to quit being selfish and do the right thing."

White people need to stop being selfish and allow for easier immigration and quit complaining that the mexicans are going to come over and steal all those great jobs.

It's NOT just white people. My Dad who is hispanic, his parents (my grandfather now passed away unfortunately) both came from Mexico when they were younger. They came legally and obtained citizenship the proper way. They are all tired, and most of the legal ones are, of the illegal immigration. It's not just hispanics either, a lot of people in Arizona are sick and tired (all races) of the illegals there.

Christi - posted on 04/20/2010

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$1.1 Billion in 1995 for Food Stamps to Illegal Immigrants: http://www.gao.gov/products/HEHS-98-30
GAO noted that: (1) in fiscal year (FY) 1995, about $1.1 billion in Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamp benefits were provided to households with an illegal alien parent for the use of his or her citizen child; (2) this amount accounted for about 3 percent of AFDC and 2 percent of Food Stamp benefit costs;...(6) although illegal aliens also received Supplemental Security Income (SSI) and Department of Housing and Urban Development housing assistance for their citizen children, data to develop estimates for these two programs were not available

http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/cost-of...
The $2.5 billion figure for Medicaid to such households is quoted accurately, but again, much of this was in benefits for U.S.-born children, who are citizens.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stori...
A study by the U.S. Congressional Budget Office released Tuesday backs up the view that undocumented immigrants sap more tax dollars than they provide, especially in education, health care and law enforcement.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_im...
IRS estimates that about 6 million unauthorized immigrants file individual income tax returns each year.[6] Research reviewed by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office indicates that between 50 percent and 75 percent of unauthorized immigrants pay federal, state, and local taxes.[6] Undocumented workers are estimated to pay in about $7 billion per year into Social Security.[7]

So I was wrong about "most illegal workers aren't paying taxes," but not about the use of government programs.

I never said anything about illegal immigrants stealing jobs. Illegal immigrants still only make on average half of what Americans do. That doesn't make it ok that they're here ILLEGALLY.

Apparently it does need to be easier to become a legal citizen. It also needs to be harder to become an illegal immigrant. I think that any illegal immigrant who has been here for years and has been paying taxes SHOULD get amnesty. But someone who has been working under the table so they don't have to pay taxes should be deported and not let back in unless they come in legally.

LaCi - posted on 04/20/2010

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"But then a lot of them apply for programs like Food Stamps and Medicaid. People keep taking out of the system more than is put in. That's why so many government social programs are running out of money."



Thats actually not true. Most illegal immigrants do NOT use social programs because they don't realize that they can. However, they DO contribute by working for low wages which allows product costs to go down for all of us, and they DO spend money which means they are paying sales tax and contributing more to state economy than they are given credit for. Not to mention IF they aren't paying taxes- if they had paid taxes and filed for returns at the wages they receive they would get more back from the government than they ever put in. But factually, MANY illegal immigrants do pay taxes and do not file a return leaving a surplus of money in the government, they do not receive assistance even though the do pay into the programs.



" People need to quit being selfish and do the right thing."



White people need to stop being selfish and allow for easier immigration and quit complaining that the mexicans are going to come over and steal all those great jobs.



Articles regarding the GOOD of illegal immigration:



http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/eco...



http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/02/opinio...



http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/uniontr...

Christi - posted on 04/20/2010

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There are illegals because it's easIER to just walk in and get a job. It's RIGHT and LEGAL to go through the proper channels before getting a job. It's right because most illegal workers aren't paying income taxes, unemployment insurance, and FICA taxes. But then a lot of them apply for programs like Food Stamps and Medicaid. People keep taking out of the system more than is put in. That's why so many government social programs are running out of money.
It IS harder to get in legally, but not SO hard that it can't be done. People need to quit being selfish and do the right thing.

Christi - posted on 04/20/2010

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Immigration IS open to anyone who wants in. It's not that hard to get citizenship or even a temporary visa. I'm pretty sure if they were shutting down legal immigration, we'd all be hearing about it.

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The corporations have to pay a fine for every undocumented worker they are found to be employing, but the fine and the undocumented worker's salary together do not even come close to what they would have to pay a legal citizen, so they just keep doing it.

In my area, the chicken slaughter place was raided and 62% of their workers deported. Three years later, it was raided again and over 90% of the workers were undocumented and thus deported. When they hired after the second raid--over 200 jobs available, they got 7 applicants from white people, 2 from black people, and all the rest were hispanic. It is true that most white and black people will NOT do those jobs, otherwise, why didn't they apply? Unemployment rates for all races were at an all time high at the moment (with the exception of the depression era), so why didn't more races apply?
That is why amnesty for illegal immigrants should have been passed.
We now spend billions of dollars a year fighting a problem that doesn't even need to be fought--There are no true statistics available, but based on the number of illegal immigrants found in employment raids, compared to the number of illegal immigrants arrested for crimes, it is fair to say that only a very small percentage of these people account for any crime at all (other than being here illegally). Instead of worrying about getting them out of the country, we should just let them work and focus on people committing actual crimes.

Jenny - posted on 04/20/2010

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I think there is an unspoken understanding between corporations and immigration that is the workers who will be punished. But only enough to ensure the meat packing lines, and other job areas, are fully operated of course.

Rosie - posted on 04/20/2010

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i think that is a huge problem jenny. in iowa, where i live, there was a kosher meat packing plant that had the largest immigration raid in history in this country. the illegals, mostly mexican, have lived here for years, and years, and worked at that plant for years and years. they have children born in the united states so their children are legal. they are all being forced to go back to mexico, and their children, well i don't know what will happen to their children. either way, it's gonna be hard for them to live in iowa all their life, and then be forced to go to mexico. or maybe they can't go to mexico, cause they aren't legal there, i don't know. anyway, the whole thing sucks.
and the owner of the plant. he was found guilty, but what startled me the most that he wasn't found guilty of hiring illegal aliens. he was found guilt of falsifying records, fraud, and other things pertaining to how he got the illegals to be able to work there. it sickens me that these people have to go through all of this crap.

Amanda - posted on 04/20/2010

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im pretty sure the corporations get in trouble when they are found out to have illegal people working for them... and i'd rather pay well for something than have people that don't pay taxes making more money that someone who does pay taxes and gets jobs legally. i dont see how that is fair to anyone that has gone thru the process to become a citizen or someone who was born in america and can't find a job.

Jenny - posted on 04/20/2010

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" I'm not sure that my opinion matters, as I'm for just opening immigration up to anyone who wants in."

I totally agree. I believe humans should be able to go anywhere on their planet they'd like with no restrictions.

Jenny - posted on 04/20/2010

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So does anything at all happen with all these corporation paying the illegals to work? Seems to me, they are a major factor in keeping priceson goods low. So do you want cheap labour or cheap stuff? You really can't have both.

Rosie - posted on 04/20/2010

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i can see both sides on this. i work retail, and on numerous occasions we have been told to watch so and so (and just incase you're wondering, no they weren't black), because they had baggy jeans, spiked hair, tattoos and stuff. guess what? everytime we did, that particular person stole something. so it makes good business sense to me to do that. i don't agree with stopping that person, or telling them they can't shop in the store, but watching them, because we had seen a pattern of who was stealing things from the store, does make good business sense.
on the other hand, my husband is covered with tattoos, as am i , he had spiky hair, and wore baggy pants at one point in his life. i would be pissed as hell if someone followed him around based soley off of his looks, assuming that he was going to steal something.
as for being pulled over in cars if you're hispanic. being here illegally obviously is illegal, so how else are they supposed to find them? i'm with laci on this one though, because i feel anybody should be able to be here, regardless, but that's a whole different topic. but the fact is, it is illegal, and until it isn't, they need to figure out a way to help with the "problem."

Amanda - posted on 04/20/2010

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i think it's messed up for the people that do belong in the country... but i also think that any illegal immigrants need to get out until they can come back legally... it would certainly help everyone that has the right to be in this country find a job... i think it's bull that they can get jobs easier because then the owners of whatever place doesn't have to pay taxes or give out any healthcare plans to them, and neither does the worker... i loved seeing it on the news when they tried saying that some job(cant remember what it was, not a wonderful glamorous job though) was up for hiring, it was mostly illegals that had been working there, they had all just gotten fired, but "no self respecting american would take that job, thats why all the illegals took it" and SOOOOO many LEGAL people showed up to be interviewed...

LaCi - posted on 04/20/2010

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Profiling is ridiculous. I'm not sure that my opinion matters, as I'm for just opening immigration up to anyone who wants in. But the idea of stopping any hispanic person in an area that I would imagine has an extremely high hispanic population is just insane to me. Not only is it a really shitty way to be treated, but don't they have more important things to be doing at this point? Are there people getting stabbed or raped or robbed while they're checking everyones immigration status?



I'm very anti profiling, all this crap about profiling in airports already has me disgusted. Its bad enough that it happens on the individual level, it's something that should certainly not happen on a state level.

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