abortion?

Tina - posted on 05/01/2011

If your getting Abortions after Abortions, and useing it as a birth contral, thats wrong to do.
But if you feel your not ready Abortion is not wrong.
Abortion is a hard thing to do, and its someting to think on of corse, since there are other options then just Abortion.
Its the womens choice, not others. If they get it done they thought it was the right resone.
Let them be

Sherri - posted on 04/14/2011

Love Love Love Laci Who's view on this one. I have to agree with her 100%.

Kerri - posted on 04/13/2011

at the end of the day its the womens choice,me personaly could not have a abortion,and i also think that it should NOT be used as a form of contreception BUT if the women was on some sort of birth control or condoms were used but it failed then the women has the right to a chioce also through rape ect then surly the women has a right to choose,yeah u are all free to have a opinion but until u are in that situation who are u to pass judgement,it cant be a easy choice to make and im sure some women have no other choice .

Pansy - posted on 04/12/2011

I think life begins at conception. I also am 100% pro-choice. I think it is a woman's right to her body, and to chose what she does and doesn't do with her body. I didn't really even need to comment on this thread, as I should just say "Ditto LaCi Who?" Everything she said is spot on, and with just the right amount of anger behind her words.

FYI, pro-life is a misnomer. It's actually anti-abortion.

Pansy - posted on 04/12/2011

I think life begins at conception. I also am 100% pro-choice. I think it is a woman's right to her body, and to chose what she does and doesn't do with her body. I didn't really even need to comment on this thread, as I should just say "Ditto LaCi Who?" Everything she said is spot on, and with just the right amount of anger behind her words.

FYI, pro-life is a misnomer. It's actually anti-abortion.

Schmoopy - posted on 04/11/2011

Maria, you are pro-choice!!! Many women who are pro-choice would never choose to have an abortion. What we all have in common is our conviction that every woman should have the right to make her own decisions concerning her body.

Maria - posted on 04/10/2011

yea i think that is absolutely correct. but you know what im confused on what to call myself cuz i always say im both but am i really just pro choice even tho i choose to be against it however completely agree that everyone should be able to make that decision for themselves? or am i pro life because i personally wouldnt get one??

Schmoopy - posted on 04/10/2011

Maria, yes, I think you're right in assuming that no one likes abortion. It's a necessary evil. But it's so important to maintain that option!

I'm Pro-Choice, and here's where I get hung up on the debate... When life begins is something no one can seem to agree upon. Until there's a definitive answer to that question, I think we have to allow for people to make up their own minds.

Jenn - posted on 04/09/2011

You are correct Maria...Obviously if there is another option available then i most certainly wouldn't press for abortion but that's just it, there should ALWAYS be a choice.

Maria - posted on 04/09/2011

Oh also speaking on behalf of the pro choicers ( please correct me if im wrong!) i think what a lot pf people confuse is that they are for abortion like the actual act when im pretty sure its not like they ar excited for abortions its not like that what they are supporting and what they gt riled up about is the "choice' part that every woman should be given the right to choice. Im pretty sure everyone would hope that someone would not have to get an abortion am i right??

Maria - posted on 04/09/2011

"ABORTION IS MURDER!!!!!!!!!!! END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!! The babies heart starts beating as early as 4 weeks!!! And by about 10 weeks they have FINGERNAILS!!!!!!!!! "

Thats what she wrote i guess i thought she was just listing facts about unborn babies not really tying them together to say thats more important than brain activity. Idk oops i guess i understood it differently sorry.

Like ive said before and i think their are a lot of people in the same boat when it comes to our own personal beliefs we are completely against abortion but when it comes to the general population we are pro choice because we respect that everyone should be able to make that decision for themselves which is the way i think it should be. Having your own beliefs but being accepting of others. We pro lifers call it murder because we feel so strongly against ending an unborn babys life just like the pro choicers feel so strongly that its not and that a fetus isnt a baby yet.

In a perfect world like its been said before people would use protection! and multiple forms. People would be super careful and if they didnt want to have kids then abstain or get their tubes tied or get a vasectomy. In a perfect world there would be no left behind unloved children and there would be no reason to abort. Rape and incest wouldnt occurer and every pregnancy would have no medical complications.But its not unfortunately therefor we have to find a way to have no more unwanted pregnancies therefore eliminating the need for abortions and for children to be put in orphanges. Because even tho i believe every baby should have the right to be born i definitely wouldnt want that baby to be born unwanted.

LaCi - posted on 04/09/2011

Maria, she DID imply that the heartbeat and fingernails are more (or at least AS) important as brain activity because she implied fingernails and heartbeats make this lump of genetics a human being, to be valued as much as those already born, and these two things form long before any decent amount of being related brain activity.

Jenn - posted on 04/08/2011

I do not think that it is accurate to call abortion murder, if a fetus was born at two or three month's it would not be a fully formed baby, they would NOT survive, it does not amount to killing an actual living human being who has feelings, emotions, etc...I am not saying that babies arent living humans and cannot feel emotions, but NOT at one, two or even three months..An undeveloped fetus does not equal a fully formed baby..They are not a "baby" yet that early..but not at one, two or three month's. And to people saying if you dot want a baby use condoms, well condoms are NOT 100% all the time...Shit happens, they can break, get stuck etc. The only 100% safe serx is no sex...So are all you pr life people saying that it is better for someone who knows they cant raise a child to have that child and then fail to take car of it properly, have it subjected to abuse, neglect, etc or bounced around foster homes or become a child of the "state" than it is to have an abortion...I do not advocate abortion as a form of birth control but I believe that we should have the right to choose what we do with our bodies and we do not know what is going on in these woman's lifes or what their reasoning is so it is unfair to judge them and label them a murderer..

Janessa - posted on 04/08/2011

BrandI Bowman I agree with all of your comment. I believe it is someones personal choice on why they got an abortion. I am pro choice because a women should say what she wants for her life and future. So many unwanted babies all over the world why don't you pro lifers start adopting? I always asked them and they always have excuses to why they cannot adopted. Like my mother and father always say if you want something really bad you are going to find a way.



Jaime hopefully I spelled your name right I feel the same way as you 100% and I had to copy and paste your comments again to those pro lifers



"What we think and feel about abortion does not change the facts about the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy that grow to a national scale when you consider the alternatives (adoption or keeping the baby). Increased funding for young mothers/parents that are jobless, funding for foster care for children that are given up for adoption...these funds don't just appear out of thin air. It has been established ad nauseum, that we need to sink the bulk of our funding into comprehensive sexual education, along with strengthening the lines of communication between parents and children. With all that in mind though, some people still make bad choices and that is NEVER a reason to bring a child into the world if we are even less unsure of the love and care they will receive in the future. As much as we want to snip and snarl at the people that practice unsafe sex or obtain multiple abortions because they just simply lack the intellect to truly understand the consequences of their actions, it's not a reason to force a child to be born knowing the inevitability of burden. Some people will disagree with the burden part of my comment, and I'm okay with that. It's the truth and that probably stings a shit ton...but what stings more is having to hear about the thousands upon thousands of children that patiently await adoption every single day with no luck. Until they are sent packing at the age of 18 and expected to 'take over' from that point...having made no real connections to the world through anything resembling a solid, stable family or home life. I'm certain that there are some foster care success stories, but few and far between compared to the staggering amount of kids that can only hope to find a family. Seems much more cruel to me than an abortion when you consider just how important family is. We are all mothers and we go to the ends of the earth and back for our kids. Are we really sitting here bickering about the technicalities of 'murder' and 'where life begins' when not one of us is in any position to step out the door and adopt these children that deserve to be born? Something is terribly wrong with that mindset.



Abortion sucks big hairy balls...I'm sure everyone will agree with that. But considering the alternatives, I'd say it's the lesser of two evils many times over! "

Maria - posted on 04/08/2011

"Well i dont think its funny seeing as she in no way implied that it mattered more. . . but LOL at you for putting words into someones mouth! However when she said fingernails it reminded me of the movie JUNO love that movie haha "all babies want to be born".



Anyway i dont think there has to be a heartbeat. If not having one makes you feel like your not ending a life thats completely up to you of course ( not implying you directly) however i think as soon as the egg and sperm meet and implant thats the beginning of a life. Of course thats just me."



Uh what part of that didnt you understand? I was simply saying that she in no way implied that fingernails was more important than brain activity YOU said that. . .

yea animals who have heartbeats and fingernails do get murdered so people can eat them so yea i do say that.



you can laugh all you want im saying that you were laughing at what someone wrote who didnt even write what you said so you just seemed silly for laughing at all.

LaCi - posted on 04/08/2011

What makes being, maria? Is it your heartbeat or your fingernails?



Animals have heartbeats. You probably still eat them. Some have nails, you wouldn't say killing them is "murder." There IS a difference in brain activity, which a fetus doesn't have until very late in the pregnancy, even then it's comparable to an animal. So if you ask me if I care, at all, if someone terminates a life that never actually existed in terms of consciousness, awareness, or anything remotely comparable to the concept of a "soul" I'll go with no, and I will laugh at anyone who equates a heart beat or fingernails with a thinking, breathing, coherent being.



A fetus is worth less than a rat, really.

Jaime - posted on 04/08/2011

What we think and feel about abortion does not change the facts about the consequences of an unwanted pregnancy that grow to a national scale when you consider the alternatives (adoption or keeping the baby). Increased funding for young mothers/parents that are jobless, funding for foster care for children that are given up for adoption...these funds don't just appear out of thin air. It has been established ad nauseum, that we need to sink the bulk of our funding into comprehensive sexual education, along with strengthening the lines of communication between parents and children. With all that in mind though, some people still make bad choices and that is NEVER a reason to bring a child into the world if we are even less unsure of the love and care they will receive in the future. As much as we want to snip and snarl at the people that practice unsafe sex or obtain multiple abortions because they just simply lack the intellect to truly understand the consequences of their actions, it's not a reason to force a child to be born knowing the inevitability of burden. Some people will disagree with the burden part of my comment, and I'm okay with that. It's the truth and that probably stings a shit ton...but what stings more is having to hear about the thousands upon thousands of children that patiently await adoption every single day with no luck. Until they are sent packing at the age of 18 and expected to 'take over' from that point...having made no real connections to the world through anything resembling a solid, stable family or home life. I'm certain that there are some foster care success stories, but few and far between compared to the staggering amount of kids that can only hope to find a family. Seems much more cruel to me than an abortion when you consider just how important family is. We are all mothers and we go to the ends of the earth and back for our kids. Are we really sitting here bickering about the technicalities of 'murder' and 'where life begins' when not one of us is in any position to step out the door and adopt these children that deserve to be born? Something is terribly wrong with that mindset.

Abortion sucks big hairy balls...I'm sure everyone will agree with that. But considering the alternatives, I'd say it's the lesser of two evils many times over!

Maria - posted on 04/08/2011

Well i dont think its funny seeing as she in no way implied that it mattered more. . . but LOL at you for putting words into someones mouth! However when she said fingernails it reminded me of the movie JUNO love that movie haha "all babies want to be born".

Anyway i dont think there has to be a heartbeat. If not having one makes you feel like your not ending a life thats completely up to you of course ( not implying you directly) however i think as soon as the egg and sperm meet and implant thats the beginning of a life. Of course thats just me.

LaCi - posted on 04/08/2011

LOL at the heartbeat and fingernails mattering more than brain function.

Anna - posted on 04/08/2011

ABORTION IS MURDER!!!!!!!!!!! END OF STORY!!!!!!!!!! The babies heart starts beating as early as 4 weeks!!! And by about 10 weeks they have FINGERNAILS!!!!!!!!!

Maria - posted on 04/08/2011

see its a little difficult to get into convo like this because i am pro life and like LACI WHO? said i dont think its right to have exceptions i dont. i think its wrong in all cases. However that just my personal belief as far as for others im pro choice do what you like i may not agree but im not gonna hit you in the head with a protest banner

Jaime - posted on 04/08/2011

I have nothing constructive to add to this debate, that hasn't already been said so I will just chime in with my stance. I'm 100% pro-choice!

LaCi - posted on 04/08/2011

I think everyone in this community already knows my thoughts on abortion. In case you don't, I couldn't care less about who has an abortion, when they have it, or what their reason is. Don't. Care.

Anyway, what really irks me is the "except in cases of incest and rape" BS. Seriously? Stick to your guns. That whole idea that "murder," which is what you think it is, is okay if you got raped is completely whacked. If you think it's a person (which I also think is a screwed up idea, but to each their own) and you think killing it is murder, then there should be zero exceptions- except possibly if the mother's life is threatened because then it would just be self defense. Kill the rapist, well sure that's self defense. But "murdering an itty bitty defenseless baby" (gasp!) after the fact isn't okay by the logic that abortion is murder and the fetus is a baby. This seems like a BIG logical fucking fallacy to me.

Anyway, my perspective on abortion has already been stated. Kill em all preconsciousness, for all I care, and I don't think its immoral in the least. I also don't think its any of my business.

Maria - posted on 04/07/2011

UGH my post didnt go thru ok here we go again:

I think SCHOOMPYS story was very informative but I have a story as well. My brother was born in June even tho he was supposed to be born in September. He was only 2 lbs had that breathing tube in his chest had the eye covers and needed to be in the incubator. He was in the NICU for several months and the doctors told my parents he wasnt going to make it and that if they wanted a priest they would arrange for one to come and that they should start thinking about what they wante to do. 4 months latr my brother pulled thru and got strong he was finally able to come home for the first time. Now he is 18 graduating HS next month and will be attending a very prestigous collge. So altho preemies can be very scary the out come isnt always devastating. Therefor i stand by the "fact" that every baby EVERY baby deserves the chance to live. Because you just never know who or what that baby is supposed to become

Maria - posted on 04/07/2011

I agree with Julianne on almost everything. The definition of murder is:

The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.



Altho " The definition of murder has changed over the centuries. (1) intentional murder; (2) a killing that resulted from the intent to do serious bodily injury; (3) a killing that resulted from a depraved heart or extreme recklessness; and (4) murder committed by an Accomplice during the commission of, attempt of, or flight from certain felonies.



So I think abortion in any case is murder whether you can justify it or not. And altho there are very sad circumstances and situations that would make it reasonable it doesnt change what it is.



And I did know a girl who didnt use birth control ever and had three abortions. She did use it as a form of birth control and now she is ready to have a baby with her boyfriend.



Quoting Brandi "It doesn't matter anyway. Because calling it "murder" to get the attention of others gets no reaction from me. Legally call it murder if you want. I'll still gladly stand by opinion."



Obviously by calling abortion murder in this thread, did get your attention and did successfully get a reaction out of you. Any 12 yr old could figure that out. . . .



p.s I am personally pro-life but I think a government should be pro choice when making laws. Everyone should have that right. However extending it to 5 months if that is the case is ridiculous and should never be passed.



EDITED

Johnny - posted on 03/28/2011

Schmoopy, thank you for sharing your story. These debates so often take place without the voices of mothers who have struggled with these decisions.

Jane - posted on 03/28/2011

Just wanted to post the definition of murder: Noun - the crime of unlawfully killing a person especially with malice aforethought. Verb - to kill (a human being) unlawfully and with premeditated malice



I think the key here is murder is unlawful where abortion is not. So, technically, you should not call abortion murder.

Schmoopy - posted on 03/27/2011

Lacye ..... My daughter was a preemie, born at 29 weeks. That's 11 weeks early. I learned a lot about viability when I went through that experience (which was harrowing and traumatizing, by the way).



I'm sure your justification for being pro-life centers on religious views. And I'm guessing that it's not based on experience. Let me just fill you in...



A preemie will suffer immeasurably because of their immature lung development. Have you ever seen a ventilator designed for a preemie? In severe cases, it vibrates to keep the lungs from collapsing.



It’s not unlikely that the baby will end up with an Intraventricular hemorrhage (IVH) or “Brain Bleed” – it’s pretty common. There's really no treatment. And the baby very well may survive, but the consequences are often life-long and severe. Brain damage can manifest in many ways as a person develops. Learning disabilities, physical limitations. Cerebral Palsy is common among preemies.



What all preemies have in common is a compromised immune system. That means they’re especially susceptible to caching pneumonia and other devastating and often life-threatening illnesses. Again, I feel compelled to mention the suffering that goes along with living through an illness that impedes your ability to breathe. And preemies are delicate. There’s no guarantee that they’ll make it through.



There’s plenty more where that came from… Jaundice, an inability to regulate their body temperature, apnea (when the baby stops breathing) & bradycardia (irregular heart beat), heart problems, eye problems, hearing problems, NEC (which is when part of the digestive tract dies), and sepsis.



My point is that even when we use “viability” as a dividing line, there are a whole host of SERIOUS consequences that go along with a baby who is not meant to be in the world. All of these consequences are hard on the family, but most of all they’re hard on the baby! I’ve watched my baby (and others who were in the hospital with her) suffer in ways you can’t imagine. (One baby had to have an IV inserted in his scalp because his veins were so tiny – it was the only place they could find a vein big enough.)



You say a baby deserves the chance to live. But I guess what I’m trying to say is that life isn’t always the best choice. Abortion really is an individual decision based on so many things that we on the outside can’t possibly begin to judge.

Julianne - posted on 03/26/2011

It should be the women who makes the decision. It is her body.She has every right to do what she will with it. I would never do it. Even if i were raped, i would still keep the child. Two wrongs don't make a right. Its still killing a child though.No matter what way you look at it. A fetus is not just a fetus. Its a child on life support.

Meghan - posted on 03/25/2011

A fetus (keyword being fetus, not embryo) isn't able to survive outside of the womb before 24-25 weeks. Now I am not pro abortion-in my ideal world, contraceptives would work every single time, women wouldn't be raped or molested, women and children would be able to safely make it through the whole 40 weeks, abusive parents/down right evil people would be sterile from birth, everyone would have a steady comfortable income and addicts/alcoholics wouldn't procreate until they are healthy. But I always say that I am pro life for everyone involved-mother and baby. Abortion SHOULD be a women's choice, shouldn't be used as birth control, and I would agree that anyone wanting an abortion should talk to someone before hand and after the fact to ensure mental stability.
You can get an abortion at any point of pregnancy in Canada-finding a Dr. to do one is another thing, but we are still given that freedom.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

Its not the same act.
One is killing a child because of not wanting it/parental circumstances.
The other is killing a child because its medically necessary to save a life. Can you not see the difference?

If that was not an extrauterine pregnancy would you have aborted?
I'm not pinning some irrelevant word to it .Murder is the act of one human being killing another human being. It is relevant.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

It doesn't work that way. You don't get to pin whatever definition you need to so that your point remains valid. Abortion is abortion. There was nothing wrong with my baby other than it was in the wrong spot at the wrong time. Yet I was given the same injection that "dissolved the pregnancy", as my doc put it. Same act.

You said ending a life is murder, killing is murder. I made the appointment. My husband, the accomplice, drove me there. So what about him? Conspiracy to murder?

Either abortion is always murder or maybe it isn't and it's just something you abhor and you use the word murder because it is the worst thing you can think of to call it.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

Again with the assumptions. I am not angry. Just pointing out that you assume too much. Did i say EVERY case is murder? sometimes its saving a life.sometimes it is extremely necessary. still you assume i don't feel that way without actually knowing. Stop assuming if you want to have a grown up debate.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

Don't get angry. You said "Killing is murder". Just like that. Cut and dry. Black and white.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

Going by my logic? really little miss...assuming things in a debate is RIDICULOUS
Grow up if you want to have a LOGICAL debate. Your just going on about your crazy assumptions on what I(not you) think and feel
You have no idea little girl.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

It doesn't matter, though. The act of abortion is the same no matter what the circumstances of the pregnancy are. So, still murder. Going by your logic. Killing is murder.

I never said it was illogical to see life. I believe once you're pregnant, the baby/fetus is alive. That makes no difference to me as to whether or not abortions are okay.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

well either you both die or the baby dies...its a bit different then. Its still a child dying.
Its not illogical to see life in an unborn child..its illogical to make blanket statements about entire groups of people having one particular trait. Its illogical to assume someone is pro-life when they are pro-choice also.
Assumptions are ridiculous.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

Actually, no that child would have never lived. It was an extrauterine pregnancy. But murder is murder, right?

You're right, some idiot lifer would probably kill me. They kinda have no logic like that.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

No they want to end their childs life because they don't want them. They don't need to get angry or have a mental issue to come to that conclusion.
If you didn't get an abortion. That fetus would be a child right now. That is why its ending a life. killing someone.

Assuming i would like you to feel shame...seriously assumptions are ridiculous. Running around gladly telling people you killed your unborn child might get you some horrible thing done to you...i would probably refrain from doing that.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

So you're saying you really believe women go into abortion clinics with anger and want to "end their child's life" because they hate them or have a mental issue or get sexual gratification from it? Um, okay. I didn't.

I'm not demeaning abortion, by any means. I'm very glad it is available and I will gladly tell others I had one. There isn't any shame here, much as you'd like to believe it.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

so you dont need an appointment to go to an abortion clinic?
That is premeditated.
Malicious intent. Ending a childs life.
It is murdering a child.
I am not trying to get attention by calling it murder. Just saying that its wrong to demean the act of aborting.Like saying its a bunch of cells or other BS along those lines.
You want to abort. Have at it. Don't belittle the act though. Actually own up to what your doing.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

There are plenty of situations where you can kill someone and it not be murder. Like self-defense. Which doesn't mean I am comparing that to abortion. I'm just pointing out that for a person to murder a human being, they have to premeditate it with malicious intent. Which isn't the case with abortion.

It doesn't matter anyway. Because calling it "murder" to get the attention of others gets no reaction from me. Legally call it murder if you want. I'll still gladly stand by opinion.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

If you consciously make a decision to kill someone it is murder. Even an unborn child... a 12 year old can figure that one out.

Brandi - posted on 03/25/2011

Killing isn't always murder. Even 12 year olds can figure that out.

Julianne - posted on 03/25/2011

its killing an unborn child....i thought killing was murder...
It may be legal..but its still stopping a life. Don't downplay it.
You know what decreases unwanted pregnancy? Condoms.

Laura - posted on 03/25/2011

I agree Brandi. It is not for us a community to condemn a woman as a murderer for her choice to have an abortion. We have no idea what is going on in this woman's life to judge her for a personal choice.
I have yet to meet a pro choice person who is gung ho about abortion. The same way I am not excited by gall bladder removal or back surgery. It is a medical procedure that must be done in certain instances.
Instead of labeling ourselves "pro life" and "pro choice" we need to work together. We all are working for the same result- a decrease in unwanted pregnancy. A world where all children are wanted and loved.

Brandi - posted on 03/24/2011

I think calling abortion "murder" is incredibly ridiculous. Murderers kill people because they are mentally ill or get sexual gratification from harming others. Are you seriously comparing a woman unwilling or not ready to parent to that? Quit being extreme because you think it will get your point across; it is immature and makes most intelligent people disregard what you have to say.



Women having abortions at this point in their pregnancy are likely making a terrible choice they would never want to make. How dare you be so rude and disgusting as to call their decision "murder". Don't you have any compassion for people who AREN'T fetuses?



I'm interested in these countless women you supposedly know who are getting "abortion after abortion". Are they rich? Do they have superhuman uteruses? lol

Sapphire - posted on 03/22/2011

If there is a severe medical deformity and other complications that are incompatible with life, then I do believe a mother has the right to terminate a pregnancy at that late stage. But I have always been pro-choice and would never want the government to tell me what I can and cannot do with my body.

Khadijah - posted on 03/22/2011

When I was younger I was very much pro-choice, but as I got a little older and a lot wiser I am definitely Pro-Life. My thought is: Unless its a case of rape, incest, or deemed medically necessary it should not be an option. Also, I feel that once a fetus has a heart beat (7-8 weeks) ITS A LIFE!!! If God has given something life (no matter what the reasoning) then who are we to decided that it doesn't deserve life and we should take it away? Just my take on it.

Lacye - posted on 03/14/2011

That would be for the person to tell them. They may not have to press charges if they don't want to but they should still let it be known if they want an abortion. That's just the way I look at it. I'm pro-life. I believe that a child, viable or not, should have the chance to live.