Abortion Question -- Honest Debate

Deborah - posted on 03/21/2012 ( 199 moms have responded )

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Ok so this is about Abortion.



I am having a tubal done after this (3rd) pregnancy, because I'm sure I don't want any more kids.



While perusing another mommy-forum site, I came across a post where the woman in question had a tubal, and her SO had a vasectomy. But she is pregnant again.



It got me thinking: I've addressed a lot of issues with myself regarding abortion, I am against Elective abortions...exceptions to the rule as always (eg - physical or psychological incapabilities). To make a long story short, willing sex is first and foremost procreation. If you don't want the possible consequences, don't have sex.



While I know my answer, I wonder what other people think.



If a woman does not support abortion and undergoes a tubal ligation but ends up pregnant, would that woman be more validated to have an abortion?



Personally I don't think so. If you're against something, you're against something. All my current opinions regarding abortions still stand.



What do you think?

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Krista - posted on 03/25/2012

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So it is perfectly fine to infringe on certain peoples right IE churches forced to pay for insurance which covers contraception for its employees which they have strong religious beliefs against and it is so to infringe upon the rights of a pharmacist who knows that mega doses of birth control pills given in one dose IS USED SOLELY to terminate a baby but it is not ok to infringe upon the rights of some chick who has had 6 abortions because she cant seem to keep from opening her legs every time the wind blows and doesnt care enough to prevent pregnancies BEFORE they happen.....



What part of "plans that we pay into" did you not understand?



The employer is not the only one paying premiums, here. The employees ALSO pay premiums. Why are their wishes less valid than the employers? Or hey, if you're going to hide behind religion, then let's look at it this way: what if my coworker was Catholic, and did not approve of the pill, but we worked for a secular organization? Because my coworker pays premiums on our group health insurance plan, should she have the right to unilaterally decide that the pill will not be covered on our plan, because it violates her religious rights to have to pay for our slut-pills?



Sorry, sweetheart. Part of being in this little thing called "society" means paying for things that you may not like.



Don't believe me? Ask the Quakers. They're pacifists. War is very much a violation of their religious beliefs. But are they allowed to withhold taxes, so that they're not paying for the military?



Nope.





"nd it is so to infringe upon the rights of a pharmacist who knows that mega doses of birth control pills given in one dose IS USED SOLELY to terminate a baby"



Oh my land, there is so much fail in this one statement that it is breathtaking. Let's start at the beginning, shall we?



1. Large doses of oral contraceptives can be used as a "morning-after" pill, which will basically prevent ovulation. It in no way, shape, or form terminates a baby.

2. If a pharmacist does not know this basic fact, then he has NO business dispensing medication.

3. If a pharmacist thinks that all women who come to get the pill are doing so in order to use them as morning-after pills, then he is not only an idiot, but he is clinically insane and should seek help.





Plus, the hypocrisy in your statement is staggering. On one hand, you're being very judgmental towards your hypothetical woman who doesn't care enough to prevent pregnancies before they happen. On the other hand, you're vociferously defending the rights of doctors and pharmacists to DENY women the means to prevent those very same pregnancies, because it might hurt their precious fee-fees.

Krista - posted on 03/25/2012

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Amanda -- do you have ANY idea what a slippery slope that is?



What if you were working for a business run by Jehovah's Witnesses? They believe that blood transfusions are wrong. So should they have the right to dictate to your group insurer (insurance into which YOU also pay premiums) that they will not cover blood transfusions?



I am all for religious freedom, but NOT when it infringes upon peoples' lives. If you are religious and you are opposed to the pill, then don't bloody well use it. Otherwise, mind your own business. Besides -- unless these employers are monitoring every dime that their employees spend from their paycheques, it's very likely that their money is going towards contraceptives ANYWAY.



Secondly, with regards to the doctors and pharmacists -- I'm not buying it, sorry.



The pill has been around since 1960. It is now 2012. So with the exception of the old farts, virtually EVERY doctor and pharmacist practicing today went into that field with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that this drug was a legally prescribed one.



Or, as my urologist friend (who is appalled by conscience clauses) put it: "If they're so goddamned worried about giving patients the pill, or having anything to do with abortion, then why the hell didn't they go into dermatology, or podiatry, or radiology? Goodness knows there are enough specializations that have NOTHING to do with women's reproduction!"

[deleted account]

I guess I don't understand your position. You say, "If you're against something, you're against something" but before gave some exceptions to your position.



I say it's not my business. I have the right to say when I wish to be a mother. I also have every right to be sexual active if I wish, even rampantly promiscuous if I wish. Birth control and abortion must always be a fundamental right. One can always say , "I'll never get one." and never do but that should have zero impact on what I do.

[deleted account]

Sarah, you do realize you have just stated that those babies deserved to die right? In that case, you have no moral basis to say that the babies who are aborted may not have sinned massively and their mothers were not doing exactly what Yahweh wants them to do.

You can't have it both ways.

Krista - posted on 03/29/2012

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I pray that you never have to go through that but I will say it can most certainly change your outlook about willingly terminating a pregnancy.



Not necessarily. And it's rather short-sighted of you to assume that I would react in the same way as you. I know plenty of women who have miscarried, but who are still fervently pro-choice.



In fact, it's funny. Before I even GOT pregnant, I used to have people like you say to me, "Oh, just wait until you get pregnant and have your baby. You'll change your mind about being pro-choice, trust me."



The irony is that I became even MORE pro-choice. Pregnancy consumes you. And having a child really DOES change your life. I remember clearly that sense that I had lost control over my body -- that things were happening to it that I could not control. And I LOVED being pregnant, but I do remember that sense of being...taken over. And I cannot fathom how awful that feeling would be if the pregnancy was unwanted. And I REALLY cannot fathom how soul-shattering that feeling would be if the pregnancy were as a result of rape.



So no, Amanda. You speak for yourself. And I'll speak for myself, thank you very much.

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Shauna - posted on 04/20/2013

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I do not believe in abortion whatsoever and I think that it is completely wrong. When you have sex and get pregnant, God put the baby in your stomach not so that you can MURDER it but so that you can give another person the chance to live and have a wonderful fulfilling life. Why would you have sex and take the risk of getting pregnant if you are just going to turn around and MURDER the baby. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense

Evelyn - posted on 12/16/2012

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I am not a proponent of abortion. I think it is wrong. I think a lot of people use it as a form of birth control when they do not use anything else. I know some situations do come along where protection is used and it does not work. But most stories I hear the couple in question did not use the protection that was available.

I became pregnant with my son. We were overjoyed. THen the doctor told us that something was wrong with him and he could be deformed or not develop enough to live for long. They found things in the first ultrasound. I had to beg for the second 4 weeks earlier than they wanted to do it. I was into the third trimester at this point. The doctor kept talking as if the baby would be born in a bad way. I had a feeling that there was nothing wrong. The doc also said that if there was something wrong that I could terminate the pregnancy. I was appalled. I could not in my life do that to a life inside of me. I decided then and there that I would continue the pregnancy and live with the circumstances of that choice. I could not live with the idea that our six year old child who knew she was going to have a sibling would hate me the rest of my life if her brother was gotten rid of that way and he could have been fine or not. In the end I decided that loosing the child to death was the better choice for me because of the ramifications of ending the pregnancy. If it was meant to be then it would happen that way. It is 15 years later, and I have a very healthy, tall son who turned out just fine.

I do not believe in abortion at all. That is my stance on it.

Kylee - posted on 12/05/2012

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The only way i except abortions is a) not going to live through pregnancy (momma or baby) or b) rape.

otherwise reguardless if you took precautions not to have a baby and still ended up pregnant, it was meant to be!

[deleted account]

"The flood was caused by God and yes he does know our actions, maybe when he decided to flood the world he saw only evil. "

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So you are then saying that killing babies and the unborn can be justified under certain circum stances. You just don't want to say it that way. Its easier to just assume that the unborn who died in the flood myth were deserving somehow becaues the mother was evil. You just are either closing your eyes on purpose to excuse it or something else.



Either way, I'd say that Yahweh's actions in that book are certainly pretty horrifying and should not be used as moral authority.





I was offline for a few days. it happens. I don't see a need to take it to aprivate chat. I'm solid in my opinions to handle public disagreements.

Sarah - posted on 11/28/2012

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@jen k, i just don't come here enough anymore. I'm a busy person..if you would like to truly discuss this please feel free to message me..

Sarah - posted on 11/28/2012

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@jen k, God is the one who decides on if a baby should die not the stupid pregnant woman who doesn't want to take responsibility for not being able to keep her legs closed. The flood was caused by God and yes he does know our actions, maybe when he decided to flood the world he saw only evil.

Amy - posted on 11/26/2012

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It might not be the babies fault, but the baby also does not have to suffer the psychological trauma of the situation as well. This muct be an american thing, because in my country no one winks an eye if women want to have abortions.

Amy - posted on 11/26/2012

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"To be honest I don't think it's fair for the oldest to be forced to share a room with the baby just because they are both boys. At 11 he will desire privacy a lot more than his sister, along with sleep. I think the best thing is for the 2 youngest to share a room for now. Hopefully as they get older you will have more space for them to each have a room though"



Yes but they are generally meant for both sexes, and affect other people. You can't really compare allowing a women to walk around topless to forcing a woman to carrying a child she does not want for 9 months.

Cecillia - posted on 10/30/2012

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I'm also 100% against abortion. Not a popular opinion, but even in the case of rape I don't think an abortion is a good thing. Yes a child was created without the mother (and father most likely) wanting it, but it's not that baby's fault that it was made. I'm mostly against abortion for my religious beliefs though

Jazmyne - posted on 10/30/2012

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I personally don't agree with abortion, however I have no right to deny anyone of it because of my personal views.

Caroline - posted on 08/21/2012

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I am 100% against abortion in any circumstance. I don't know why but I just feel that it's wrong.

Erika - posted on 08/02/2012

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It's all too easy to assume every single person has the exact amount of education on a subject(s), or information, as you or me. The operative word here is 'or'. As in, we are all in fact different and our choices make us, not 'define' us. Old news but I think it's necessary to remember this when sometimes your choices are made for you and not necessarily by you.

In making a choice to have a tubal- is you practicing you controlling your body- it is your decision to not to have more children. (Emphasis on 'you' intended, please forgive me.) However, as you shared about the woman who still got pregnant despite her cautious efforts not to, it is pretty evident sometimes nature takes its course as if It were the one in control around here... IMO, if you had made the effort to have a tubal as a preventative measure to cement your decision not to have more children, why does nature get to make the decision for you at the last second?

IMO nature is a stubborn, persistant entity? However it is still solely you/your family's business with 'Nature', and anyone else's view matters not as they are not in your shoes. (Who would pass criticism on your situation but those desperately living in another time and place... When uttering the word abortion was just as unheard of, or unknown, as the exact procedure itself.)

I have faith that most people know what's best for them(selves). Leave well enough alone because not 'everyone' has to have the facts. Just Nature, 'you' and the doc is plenty for heads butting.

Annabelle - posted on 07/31/2012

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I also gave up my child bearing ability after baby #3, however; I was only 21, my (now ex) husband had a vasectomy first that wasn't 100%, and he gave me an ultimatum. There isn't a day that goes by that I don't regret my decision, or feel anger towards the ex and the doctor who did it. But I made my choice and have had to live with it. If I ever got pregnant but some act of God, I would be ecstatic. I believe all babies are worth being born unless there is a medical reason to terminate the pregnancy (although I could never). Nothing is 100% fool proof except abstinence.

Katija2013 - posted on 07/29/2012

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I'm pro choice, but i personally would not have (another) one. No matter what the circumstances. And i am tired of women thinking there are some situations more "worthy" or more justifiable for abortion. Abortion is what it is - the ending of a human life. The reasons for having it, ultimately, don't matter. You either judge all women who have had it (and the figure is something like 1 in 3!), or none.

That said, however, i know that life is oh so difficult sometimes (cruel even), and who am i to judge what a woman does with her body, her baby, her future. It's hard enough sometimes dealing with the stresses in my own life, without taking on the burden of what someone else should or shouldn't be doing in theirs.

Of course, my own views on the issue are colored by my own experiences pre and post abortion; and i know that i could not do that to a child of mine ever again. I don't want to fall pregnant again, but if i happen to, i would keep my baby and love it to no end. I look at my two children now, and i think to what has happened, and to what could have been, and it breaks my heart. There was no other choice for me, but it is still a pain that weighs heavily every day.

Rebecca - posted on 07/28/2012

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I personally don't agree with abortion, but thats where I sit. I now have decided I dont want any more kids after 3 and so have a 3 year contraception. If I was still to get pregnant, then I will have that baby. I believe all babies are miracles, I mean they come from cells and are made into such gorgeous human beings. I guess it all comes down to peoples personal choice, I am a person who even if i hadnt wanted a child I would accept it and love it as an unexpected gift. Some people cant see them that way. As for the pregant from rape or incest, well, that is a really hard one and I can't give an educated decision as I've quite never had it happen to me, but I do think that its not the childs fault and there are many people out there who would love to have kids but can't, and then maybe in that situation you can give those people the gift of that child if it is something you just cannot live with.

Dora - posted on 06/07/2012

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Erin you may consider abortion to be murder but beating your child to death is also murder. If you are someone who does not want to have a baby, gets pregnant and won't give it up for adoption then abortion is something you should consider if your next thought is to beat the baby to a bloody pulp because you didn't want it and couldn't go anywhere for a legal abortion.

Erin - posted on 06/07/2012

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I believe that other than to save the life of the mother ( self defesne) there is no excuse for abortion. No matter how many measures you took to not get pregnant abortion is still murder.

Kristi - posted on 06/06/2012

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Stifler's Mum...are you talking about my post? That I went off to law school, etc.? I'm sure how you got that I was condemning anybody either. I said I'm not judging, we shouldn't judge, etc more than once. I would encourage you to reread my post. The only part that sounds harsh is when I said "makes skin crawl" but with that I said and my heart breaks and I was referring to women who are to selfish and irresponsible to use real birth control so when they get pregnant on several occassions they abort them all instead. And if it makes you feel better, I did not go to law school, I went to a mental hospital for several months.

Denise...I agree that no one fetus has more value than another and that the procedure and outcome are all the same. But, I can't get all the way there on one woman's situation being worse than another's or "more justified" so to speak. It is definitely more understandable and reasonable if/when rape and incest victims choose to have an abortion over the women/girls I mentioned above. But, I said in my originial comment that nobody knows all the facts surrounding an individual's unique situation so it's not right to sit in judgement. Again, if it were up to me, I would choose life especially after my experience but it is not up to me so the best I can do is educate and share my (detailed) story when the opportunity presents itself in hopes that it might help save a baby's life. And I'd like to think I'm partially responsible for helping one already. My daughter's older, teenage sister came to me when she found out she was pregnant at 15. She is 20 (still young) and has 2 gorgeous babies.

Anyways, like I said before, I wasn't trying to offend anyone and I appreciate everyone's points of view. There are always a few really good ones that make you think twice.

Hope - posted on 06/05/2012

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I really really really wanted to comment on one thing. I have an older sister with some pretty strong beliefs when it comes to God and morality. She was completely against birth control (in all forms) and pro-choice. She got a tubal a few years back, so why is that any different than birth control?
What do you think?
I think she made a consideration for herself because she didn't want to bring another child into this world. I think that if she got pregnant again, she would indeed get an abortion and I will tell you why: Because the second she made one consideration for her situation, more will follow. I also think that abortion is a private matter, meant to be discussed and decided upon between the two it effects: the parents. I think that if you are going to go back on one of your morals, then what morals do you have? I know this is kind of invading, but I really don't think you have much of a standing if you are anti-birth control and anti-abortion. It gives you ZERO negotiating room when it comes down to tough decisions. Honestly, (and I might be guilty of being too honest) I think you need to re-think your personal standing on abortion.

Denise - posted on 06/04/2012

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There is no bad abortion and no good abortion. There is just abortion. (Disclaimer: I am pro-choice.)

So many people try to justify one case as more deserving than another, but when it boils right down to it, no one fetus has more innate value than another fetus as a potential human being. Therefore, this woman is no more validated than any other - because in the end, it's the same procedure as any other abortion and accomplishes the same ends. She can do what she wants and feels comfortable with, that's all there is to it.

Also, this notion that in the human species sex is soley for procreation is ridiculous. From stress relief to bonding between a couple, sex has many other purposes. Otherwise we'd be like all the other animals that don't have sex for pleasure - we'd go into heat a few times a year and females wouldn't orgasm. Bonding between a couple (since we are a species that mates either long term or for life) is a highly important function of sex. It's not all about spawning.

Isobel - posted on 06/03/2012

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go back and read again Stifler's mum...she wasn't condemning at all. I thought it was a nice post.

Stifler's - posted on 06/03/2012

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Yes you had an abortion at 18 and now you condemn other peoples right to have one and go to law school without a baby to support. Wow. No reason is more valid than another. You can't force someone to bring a child into this world that they don't want just because they didn't have a good enough reason.

Kristi - posted on 06/02/2012

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Deborah-

In regard to your question about a woman who has had a tubal and finds herself pregnant again having a more valid reason to have an abortion than another woman I would say no. That is assuming there is a valid reason to have an abortion in the first place. I would say in her case, she is more obligated to keep the child as he/she is definitely meant to be here, again, assuming you believe in God or fate or a higher power.

That being said, I did have one when I was 18. I'm not justifying this and I don't have to. It is part of my past and it is between God and me. However, there were extenuating circumstances and I have been paying for it ever since. I also advocate for pro-life but after considering the circumstances surrounding me during my time, I don't feel I have the right to judge others. It absolutely makes my skin crawl and my heart break to see teenagers & young women who use abortion as birth control. I wish there was a way to stop that but like my father told me, "You can wish in one hand and s**t in another and I can tell you which one will fill up faster."

In my opinion, which is probably not worth a dime but you did ask (wink) so...this is not a black and white issue. Some people will use God to justify or condemn abortion as you can read here and they do so without really thinking about it and exploring it from all perspectives, with various circumstances and conditions and the possible reprecussions of either decision. For example, we could probably get the lifers and the choicers to compromise on the issue of rape, hypothectically. So we get a law passed that says only rape victims can have abortions...well then who determines if the woman was raped? Do you want to further traumatize a real victim by forcing her to repeatedly relive her experience? But what about the selfish, irresponsible women who might cry wolf? Do you have to wait until it's proven in a court of law, that obviously won't work. There are too many variables, if you will, that make it impossible for abortion to be outlawed completely. But as a pro-lifer I would someday like to see some sort of regulations.

However, I think a lot of pro-lifers who read my comment will disagree that I am a pro-lifer because I'm not standing here with my eyes closed and my hands over my ears chanting, "a life, is a life, is a life and thou shalt not murder!" I very much want people to keep their babies. If I could pick for someone I would pick life. But nobody knows all the facts surrounding an INDIVIDUAL's unique situation therefore it is not right for us to sit in judgement. But in my experience I can honestly say, I wish someone had been there to explain the life-long emotional effects this would have on me and for some women there could be physical after affects as well.

I think this is something that teens should be educated on like sex and birth control. I believe in abstinence until you are at least mature enough to accept and understand the emotional responsibilities that come with the decision to have sex. Then, birth control until you are ready to have children. But I'm also not fool enough to believe that just because I teach, preach and expect that from my daughter, she will automatically do what I say. She needs to have to proper education and understanding of ALL the consequences of her actions and the effects they can have on her long after so she can think twice before she acts. Ok, so I just realized I am WAAAAAY off topic! I have no idea if anything I said made sense to you or if it just pissed you off. I hope I didn't upset anyone, that was not my intent. If we all just do our best to make our own little corner of the universe happier and safer then we can make a difference.

Sarah - posted on 05/22/2012

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@ Jen K In Noah's ark EVERYONE in the world at the time of the Flood was involved in sin of the most severe nature. What do you suppose those “innocent” babies would have done had they reached adulthood? You pre-suppose that the babies killed in the Flood might have not done as everyone else in the world; that there was a chance that they would not follow in the footsteps of every other living person besides Noah and his family.

[deleted account]

If it's a self-funded policy Jessica, then depending on the group, they really can micro-manage. I knwo a group that will not cover any preventive exams, tests, bloodwork, pelvic exams at all.

Jessica - posted on 05/19/2012

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What insurance company negotiates terms to that intricacy, of not covering blood transfusions specifically? Just curious-I'm a RN who works for an insurance company and would really be intersted in learning about a micro-managed policy.
Also, with regard to what is now being covered as "family planning" the federal governmant is actually providing funds to individual states to allow for that kind of coverage only, under the State plan traditionally availalbe for those only under a certain poerty level %. Maybe things aren't as dismal as some may see it.

**Jackie** - posted on 05/18/2012

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Stifler's Mum, you make a good point. It's sad. (not your point but the fact that you're right)

Dora - posted on 05/18/2012

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I would have to say if a woman is completely against having a baby and becomes pregnant, I would rather see her have an abortion then abuse her child. Children should be brought into this world to be loved, nurtured and cherished. I know adoption is an option but how many people actually go forward with adoption. In most cases you here about the child suffering unthinkable abuse. That alone in my eyes is not considered living life. I know a few people that have been physically and sexually abused as children. Did they turn out alright, yes, but the road to get to where they are now was beyond difficult and their pain and suffering never really went away so besides being hurt and tortured as an innocent child they are now adults who have to live everyday with the sadness of what happened to them.

Stifler's - posted on 05/14/2012

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Then I agree with abortion as birth control. Those types don't need to breed.

**Jackie** - posted on 05/14/2012

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I would define "abortion used as birth control" as like if a girl was having sex and no one had a condom and her mind set was "eh, if I get pregnant there's always birth control"

So a female who engages in sex with a carefree attitude and no attempt to prevent pregnancy

Stifler's - posted on 05/14/2012

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I don't understand what "abortion as birth control" even means. A kid came around and asked me to fill out a survey and that was one of the questions "do you agree with abortion as birth control" . Does that mean that you use no protection then have an abortion when you get pregnant or if protection fails you abort or what?

Teresa - posted on 05/14/2012

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Having an abortion as birth control is just irresponsible. Why terminate a life just because something happened and you didn't use conodm or you forgot your pill or whatever other reason comes to kind. MOST babies are conceived unknowingly and by two consenting adults. Don't kill a a baby just because you don't feel ready, or you're alone, or you just don't like the guuy. The baby is half you! If you don't feel ready, give it up for adoption. Make some poor couple's day. BUt that baby is half you! No matter who the father is it is still half you!. Our society is so ready to throw someting unwanted away that it forgot it's babies. DOn't want kids, don't have sex!. This is not a religious bent either. Sex was evolved so babies would be conceived! Don't want baby. DOn't have sex. Even the cavemen knew that!

Kenna - posted on 05/11/2012

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I was stating my opinion same as everyone else. i dont really care if you agree with it or not. this post was asking for opinions on the matter and i gave mine. i'm not going to explain myself to anyone or answer to every situation that could possibly happen but isnt common or likely to ever happen. but in terms of rape to any age person killing a child inside them could be just as damaging as giving birth and giving it away. so if i had to decide between two damaging things i personally would choose not to do abortion. i would never force anyone to make that decsion. not my kids nor anyone else. and if my life was for sure to do because of keeping the baby i would definitely choose to die myself than to kill my child. i couldnt live with myself if i did. and even in the cases where they say that there have been mothers and babys who have lived when they said the mother or child would not. if the child was going to be in pain because of serious health issues or handicaps i would still have the baby and hope they are wrong which in quite a few cases they have been. they can also medically induce commas to children like that and they will die on there own. which is sad but i feel that is better than killing them. i have seen all of these situations in immediate family and close friends happen and seeing them go through those different things i saw how much they struggled. with that in my mind i would still never choose abortion. if you dont agree with me thats completely fine. think whatever you want. obviously there are plenty of ppl out there ok with killing ppl which is why the prisons are so full. just because i think its wrong doesnt mean anyone else has to. but this discussion is to voice your opinion so tell people your opinion on it and move on.

**Jackie** - posted on 05/10/2012

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I would not have an abortion. However, I have not been faced with such traumatic events in my life such as serious risk to the baby or myself or rape. Having said that, just because I am against it for me doesn't mean I think it is my business at all if someone else has one.

I used to say abortion was "wrong"...turns out, I was wrong. I guess now if I had to pin point what I am against it would be using abortion as birth control. A friend of mine told me (and this was a year or so ago) that she was pregnant and had already set up an appointment for an abortion. She loves her fiance dearly and they live together and are very happy but she just wasn't ready. I felt sick to my stomach when she told me this and I couldn't help but look at her a different way. She was having an abortion because a child just wasn't convenient for her right now. After I thought about it, I decided that I would be there for her no matter what and to just try not to judge her (even though I will admit it was difficult).

[deleted account]

Why do so many people in society think that a woman's right to her body are more important than another living soul's right to their body?
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Can we pass a law that states all pregnant women must report to a state-fitness gym and exercise 20 minutes a day? If not, she is fined and imprisoned and forced to exercise there. can we pass a law that requires all pregnant women to maintain a food diary that must be provided to a state doctor and if she is eating food we do not believe to be healthy, she can be fined and imprisoned and therefore we can force her to eat properly. If she is suspectd of falsifying her diary, then straight to the pregnant prison. We all know that anesthesia during labor isn't really necessary and can have side effects on the baby so let's ban its usage. Anyone caught using it has their child taken away.

If the baby's rights trump the mother, then why are you not advocating the above system?

[deleted account]

I am completely against abortion. the baby has a heart beat when you do an abortion. that means your stopping a heart beat to do it. if your kid was two and i stopped its heart beat i would be charged with murder. i dont see it any different if its still inside a womens stomach.
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Is termintating and ectopic pregnancy murder?

Yes or no?

[deleted account]

Sarah, sure Yahweh said thou shalt not kill but he has murdered more unborn babies than all the abortion doctors combined over the centuries.

I realize Noah's Ark is a soft-fuzzy story and 'cute' for a nursery but it's really about Yahweh murdering billions upon billions of children both born and unborn.

So he's not a good reference for this discussion.

Jenna - posted on 05/10/2012

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I wouldn't have an abortion. It would never have crossed my mind. I HAVE been pregnant before at times when I didn't want to be and it was like, "well, it is what it is". I really can't stand it when people say that it's the mother's body and it's her choice. Her rights to her body do not trump the rights of her unborn child to his/her body. Why do so many people in society think that a woman's right to her body are more important than another living soul's right to their body?

Stifler's - posted on 05/10/2012

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The point is sarah... 9 year old kids often don't say anything until it's way too late for any of that even teenagers have been known to hide their pregnancy and then kill the baby when they're born and try to hide that too. IMO it's because of so much demonising of abortion. No one agrees that it's a fun time to have one. No one just gets pregnant and goes off to the clinic for fun!! But I would NEVER expect my 9 year old or even my 14 year old to go through a pregnancy. It was emotional enough for women who are married and have means of taking care of a baby let along being not even an adult and expected to go through that when you don't want to.

Sarah - posted on 05/10/2012

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also correct me if im wrong but i thought God said 'thou shall not kill'..or does not count for a baby (fetus).

Sarah - posted on 05/10/2012

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im against abortion, if you get raped or something tragic like that, PLEASE just go to a) the hospital they will give you tests and injections to protect you also they will give you a morning after pill.. b) go buy the morning after pill if you consented and are now scared..

i think its so sad that a fetus feels pain and tries to move its self away from being...well..killed (aborted). There is adoption, why do people hate that option?

Krista - posted on 05/09/2012

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i dont feel in any situation ever that abortion is ok. to me it is always murder and if its ok to kill a tiny baby it should be ok to kill anyone out there.

So Kenna, if carrying the pregnancy meant that the mother died, you'd be okay with that?

If carrying the pregnancy meant that a baby with a horrible birth defect would be made to live out a short, extremely painful life, you'd be okay with that?

If carrying the pregnancy meant making a mother out of a 9-year-old rape victim, you'd be okay with that?

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