Anonymous -- Should the court order her to get a tubal -- ?

[deleted account] ( 32 moms have responded )

Anonymous --

My best friends daughter who is a drug addict and a thief. Her mother has put her in program after program and she still goes back to shooting heroin, or popping pills or anything else she can do to get her jollies off.

Miss X (we will call the addicted this) has a two year old son whom was born addicted to Herion. Miss X's mom has full custody of him (he is two years old) and is a wonderful grandmother. This little boy has overcome many obsticals thanks to his grandmother and all her hard work.

Now Miss X just had another baby two weeks ago. This baby, when they did the toxx screen had Morphine, Crystal Meth, Heroin, Oxycontin, and two other high level prescription drugs in its system. Its another little boy. This baby is in so much pain and is suffering so bad you cannot even hold it. They are using 4 times the normal amount of morphine to try and keep the baby comfortable and they have no clue if it will make it past 30 days old, and if it does they are anticipating severe issues mentally and physically. The doctors said that this baby is 10 times worse than the two year old was when born.

Now until two days ago, Miss X had visitation privileges with her first born allowing her to see him from 12:00 to 4:00 three days a week, where she could be unsupervised and take him to the park or so on.

She now has no visitation rights to either children and her mother has full custody of both kids. When Miss X brought the two year old back from a play date at the park grandma took the car seat and noticed that there had been juice spilled in it and removed the cover to wash it... only to find dirty needles stuck under the padding in the car seat...

The next day she went down and petitioned the court.

Also after Miss X was sent home from the hospital (the baby will be spending at least a month there if it makes it) she has returned three times to see the baby. Each time she has been higher than a kite, walking aimless around the hospital, found by a nurse.

I know how i feel on this subject... I believe that she needs to be put in jail for abuse, neglect whatever they can get her on and if the baby dies, she needs to be charged with murder... on top of that I believe that she should be made to have a Tubal Ligation and not be allowed to have anymore children.

What do you think? I am going to have a hard enough time looking at this girl, let alone not kicking her teeth out because of what she has done to this little boy and its a small town, im gonna run into her.

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Heather - posted on 07/18/2010

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This is a sad sad story, and one that I have heard over and over again, I have even cared for children who were born addicted and suffered long term medical issues because of it. I dont however, think that forcing a woman to get a tubal will do anything about the actual problem, which is the ADDICTION. I think court ordered in house long term (1 year or more) treatment is one good solution, It is proven that if an addict can remain clean for one year, the chances of relapse are greatly reduced. I think that the fact that she used while pregnant is very sad, and I am not sure why she was not drug tested during her pregnancy since her first child was born addicted that seems strange to me, I know I have a friend who was addicted to crack and had two children who were also addicted...they were both taken, but the second was taken from her at birth since they drug tested her and knew that baby was going to be born addicted to crack.
People make very poor decision while high on drugs, and I think that if she were not addicted, she would have never wanted to hurt those children. I think that the best solution would be to get her clean and sober, back on her feet, then she could start to establish visitation with her children very slowly...and maybe eventually she could be a part of their lives...I have seen many drug addicted people turn their lives around and become successful people but it certainly does not happen overnight, and it is very hard work!

LaCi - posted on 07/16/2010

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"You can't force someone to take birth control. And unless we want to be like China, were we are only aloud to have one child after that they are killed or sent to orphanages, we will never be able to enforce mandatory birth control."



We can absolutely force people to take birth control as a mandatory aspect of probation. The same way criminals have to pee in a cup for however many years, we throw in an injection or implant right alongside that urine test. Pas 3 years of urine tests and we'll discuss allowing you to stop taking your birth control.



As for those who DON'T show up for their mandatory meetings to pee in a cup and take their birth control, well that's a violation of probation/parole and they go to prison, where they can continue their birth control regimen.



I'm VERY much for focusing on recovery, but in the meantime until she's proven herself, by all means keep her uterus empty.

Sherri - posted on 07/15/2010

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Because Gena wether you agree with it or not it is against her constitutional rights and yes she may have a problem that she needs help with but she still has rights. No one should be forced to be sterilized EVER!!

[deleted account]

I don't agree with court ordered sterilization BUT I firmly believe in paying drug addicts to get norplant or some other long term birth control device. Yes, they'll use the money for drugs but that's not our concern is it? Our, well at least my concern is that she not reproduce any further.

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Jessica - posted on 09/15/2011

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I agree with everything but the forced tubal... then again thats because I believe it is... spiritually, and morally going too far.

On the other hand, I agree with the other things. jail, murder, the rest I agree with.

I also believe their is a fine line we must be careful not to cross. This is my fine line, I think. I believe if it stops a child from being born(who is supposed to be born) then it is bad, however you couldn't know this, if you do so.

That baby might be destined to some family who will love them, or be the one to straighten her out somehow, every life has purpose and... this is a... line crossing to me.

How do you know if she will have another child, and what if you DO prevent that child and he/she is meant to BE something or DO something?

it is... a tough one because to me, it is humans playing god. where do we end it? will we stop here?

Ashley - posted on 07/18/2010

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That is so sad..but i agree with you she should not beable to have any more children.....if that poor little baby dont make it i hope they charge her with murder..no baby should ever have to go through that..:(

Rosie - posted on 07/17/2010

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i don't like the idea of tubal ligation-ever. i do believe she needs to be put into jail for a bit, rehab and then forced to be on long term birth control.

Lyndsay - posted on 07/17/2010

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Oh God. I am TOTALLY WITH YOU! People like this should be forced into sterilization.

Sarah - posted on 07/16/2010

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Omg this story brought tears to my eyes.. I'm still sitting here crying.
IMO she needs to be put in jail. Don't even give her Rehab!! Let her suffer like her babies did.. She deff needs to have a Tubal Ligation.. This is just as bad as murder! She ruined these kids lifes forever... Her baby is hurting so much and might not make it.. She needs to be in Jail... As for you, I know its hard but just look away if you see her... You know your better than she is. Dont bring yourself down to her level..

LaCi - posted on 07/16/2010

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Well, if we're creating new statutes that require a woman to have mandatory birth control after what is obvious neglect or abuse once that child is born with drugs in its system, that can be written in as well, mandatory probation for neglect/abuse. You can't really send her to prison for abuse as the fetus isn't a child yet, but once it's born, essentially abused, you can definitely work something out.

Amber - posted on 07/16/2010

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This woman isn't on probation or parole though....she wouldn't be reporting to anybody. That's why I'm not sure how to enforce it.

Amber - posted on 07/16/2010

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Ok, I see the idea behind paying them....It just kills me that they are in some twisted way being rewarded for being addicts. But I agree it's probably the best way to get them to comply.
But what about the mothers who have been ordered to do it, and the money isn't enough to make them show up? Then what? Addicts aren't the most reliable people and don't have the best judge of time.

[deleted account]

Tanya, from my insurance background, I can confidently say that 2 weeks in a pediatric intensive care unit can cost upwards of $200,000. That's 2000 women who could be put on long term birth control at $100 a pop. I think the cost savings right there is a good thing.

[deleted account]

I can see the enticing part of paying a drug addict to get b/c although I think it should just be mandated and medical expenses paid.That poor baby should probably be on methadone not morphine...hell that lady should probably be on a methadone maintenance program as well!!! It isn't horribly unlikely that a heroin addict needs to get on this type of program to kick the illegal street drugs. Maybe Miss X's mom could look into a methadone clinic in the area and see about what it would take to get her daughter on the program...with heroin you can burn out your pain killing receptors and this is what makes kicking the habit OMG awful! A headache to normal ppl would make someone w/burnt out receptors feel like they are going to die! The methadone helps even out the pain levels in the brain and allows these people to live productive lives! That poor poor baby!

[deleted account]

I agree with you. She should have some sort of long term birth control... This is such a sad story. I pray that baby boy will make it ok. ♥

Tanya - posted on 07/15/2010

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I just think it would be cheaper to pay these women one hundred dollar every five years then to keep a baby in the hospital for a month.

Michelle - posted on 07/15/2010

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I understand why you feel that way Amber, but getting clean is not the only problem. Staying clean is. Once a alcoholic always an alcoholic, same for a drug addict. Once an addict always an addict. They wake up every morning with the need to do the drugs. Without a strong support group and family that loves her, she may not make ut.

Those kids are suffering, I am not saying they are not, but she is suffering as well. If she didn't give a rats ass about her children, she wouldn't have gone to the hospital to see her youngest at all.. Now granted she was messed up on drugs, but for most drug addicts, drugs are a coping mechanism. She knows she fucked up that baby and her way of dealing with it is to use drugs. It doesn't make sense to the rational person, but to a drug addict, it is the only way to deal with life.

You can't force someone to take birth control. And unless we want to be like China, were we are only aloud to have one child after that they are killed or sent to orphanages, we will never be able to enforce mandatory birth control.

Maybe someone needs to just step in and get her the help she needs to get clean.

Amber - posted on 07/15/2010

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I think that's why the whole idea of mandatory birth control is an alternative that has been discussed. This way IF she ever does get clean, she still has a choice.
I believe that is being compassionate in view of the things that she has already done to her children.

Michelle - posted on 07/15/2010

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I am not defending her actions, but I think some of you are forgetting that most drug addicts don't do drugs by choice. Hence the term ADDICT... And a lot of addicts want to quit. It is a lot easier said than do and for anyone who has never been addicted to anything it is so easy to sit here in judgment over her.

I am not saying that she deserves her children or that we should just look the other way. However it would be nice to think that the people in her life would be a little more compassionate and do what is right for HER and HER children.

[deleted account]

This makes me sick :( Why should it even be a question whether or not these woman can take care of their children? they can't/won't take care of themselves otherwise their babies. And since we can see that they cannot make the right choices why should we give them any choice/say in their sterilization? And you could kick her teeth in and she probably wouldn't care because as long as she's on drugs that's all that matters. She won't care or understand what she has done until she gets clean and clears her head. I pray that someone forces her to get help so she doesn't have any more babies by her own choice.

[deleted account]

Good question. I think it should be paid for because then you will have women who otherwise might fly under the radar of the courts coming in to get it. I think we'd have more addicts participate and willingly too. Yes, there would be the up front cost but it's one that I frankly would be happy to pay if it meant fewer babies would be born with drugs in their system.

Amber - posted on 07/15/2010

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@Jen~ I don't think they should be paid for it. I think they should just be ordered to get it. The government can pay for the actual procedure (to the doctor not the druggie). But why should they be paid for it?

Sherri - posted on 07/15/2010

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No as tragic as this is and I feel horrible for those children. It is crossing a very thin line to mandate someone have a tubal. Then it would be open shooting season to mandate people with mental problems or any kind of no perfect characteristic to be forced to have a tubal. Yes she should spend some sort of sentence in jail although she never will.

Jackie - posted on 07/15/2010

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I'm in a VERY similar situation with mu cousin... It's a long story but I'm going to tell it and then tell you what I think.

My cousin is 29. In that time she has had 3 children and at least 12 abortions that I know of. She does not have custody of the first 2 but just gave birth to the 3rd about 1 month ago. The baby had methadone, oxycontin, and numorous other nacotics in the her system when she was born. The baby went through very VERY BAD withdrawls. Everybody tried to have this baby taken from her but because she has a QUACK "pain management" doctor PERSCIBING these drugs, they can't do anything about it. She didn't have a Rx for the methadone so they almost succeeded in taking the baby but then the QUACK wrote a letter saying that he told her to take them. It is clear to everybody that she's a pill head and could give a rats ASS about the well being of her baby. But nobody in the system could do anything, or should I say WOULD.

Now, this makes me sick and I wish I could kick her teeth in and even more than that, I want to kidnap that lil baby and cuddle her. In fact, I can't wait to run into her so I can tellher what a piece of shit she really is.

[deleted account]

I agree with everyone else. What she is doing is child abuse and she needs to face the consequences for that.

I also think that she should be court ordered to get some kind of long term birth control (that she would be unable to screw up) or have the option of steralization. Maybe if she's given the option of which she would prefer it would reduce the "the goernment os trying to run our lives" outcry that I am sure would result.

As a side note, a long time ago the courts used to order people to be steralized. When my husband's stepdad was 30 (before he met my MIL or anything) he was taken to court for child support (for a child that ended up not being his). When he was in court, it came out that he actually had upwards of 20 or so kids that he never took care of (he didn't even know the exact number). Apparently back when he was in his 20's women would have random kids with miscellaneous men to get more wefare (a new law has since been put into place to prevent this). Since my hubby's stepdad was quite the good looking man back then (or so he says lol) a lot of women asked him to father their welfare babies. So, when the judge found out about all those illegitimate children, he gave my hubby's stepdad an option: Pay child support (and back child support) back to the state (in repayment for the welfare the mothers had received), or get steralized. He chose steralization because the other option was simply not something he would have been able to do.

Amy - posted on 07/15/2010

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Yes, being arrested for abuse is something that needs to be done.

If the court would say she needs a tubal then they might start doing so in other situations. I think the ONLY thing that might warnt it is that she's going through several programs and still just as bad as before (if not worse). Forcing a women to get a tubal that has drug issues, but the potential to be cleaned up is not fair.

And Yes, I agree with the first poster, The court would have a better chance at forcing a long-term birth control over a tubal.

LaCi - posted on 07/15/2010

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Maybe not a tubal. maybe let her choose, mandatory depo injections, implanon, iud, or tubal. Its possible she could clean up her act, unlikely, but possible.

Tanya - posted on 07/14/2010

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Yes this is a case where they should at least put an IUD in.

I would kick in her teeth/

Amber - posted on 07/14/2010

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I agree that she should be arrested for abuse. How is this not a form of abuse??
And yes, I do believe that she should have to get a tubal. If she continues to have unprotected sex that results in pregnancy, and the birth of drug addicted children, then she is obviously not responsible enough to have control of her reproductive organs.
If a tubal is too drastic, then maybe they could give her an extended birth control. One of the implantable ones that lasts for 5ish years...

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