Babywise or Babystupid?

Chatty - posted on 09/19/2010

Huh, Nikki?

Nikki - posted on 09/19/2010

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Nikki - posted on 09/19/2010

Babystupid, I read somewhere his own kids refuse to speak to him, great role model obviously. I can't stand the parts that I have read, they go against all my motherly instincts.

Anika - posted on 09/19/2010

I'd never heard of Babywise until this thread and I don't think enough information has been given for me to make an opinion. I have looked at the amazon link given earlier and the little information that was given did have me shaking my head in disagreement but other things I've read on here I've kinda thought was closer to my style. I'm definitely not an attachment parenting person. So that's not my issue.

I did want to say though, like others here have, read parenting books if you want, but pick and choose the information that seems right for you and your baby. Rigidly sticking to what a book says is just stupid, ESPECIALLY when you can see your child is not responding to it.

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Can't be bothered or are too afraid? Brock, brock....*flaps arms and clucks like a chicken*
I dare you.

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Well if you can't be bothered then how do you expect anyone else to give a shit? Why participate in a debate and question people's comments without actually questioning them? You won't even specify who? I don't get it.

Beck - posted on 09/18/2010

lol i would Dana but I can't list 10 odd people :P I cant be bothered lol

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Quit beatin' around the bush, Beck.....this is a debate. If you want to call someone out, do it! I don't understand your lackadaisical attitude or approach? GET TO THE POINT!

Beck - posted on 09/18/2010

Lisa I have read your posts and am glad you pout a lot of good information in. :) I'm just thinking of others who just can't be bothered putting good reason behind their opinions

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

I agree, Erin....crackpot for sure!

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Gary Ezzo is "an enigmatic, 50-something, evangelical Christian minister that heads "Growing Families International", a FOR PROFIT conservative Christian organization. I don't think that there is anything wrong with a Christian minister writing parenting books, but it should be a little clearer in the books who the authors are."

"Another controversy is that many of the facts and studies presented in the books are not backed up with any scientific evidence."

For me, it's not necessarily the theory behind the "babywise" parenting technique as I've adopted some of the methods after tweaking them to suit or fit into our style of parenting but with the man behind the theory and his extremist views.

Erin - posted on 09/18/2010

Dana that interview is laughable.

Erin - posted on 09/18/2010

My reasons for disagreeing with Babywise are many, but I will briefly explain the main ones. Firstly, Ezzo is a crackpot. Secondly, I am an AP Mumma so any advice telling me to ignore my child's cues is going to be dismissed. We are affected by our baby's cries FOR A REASON!! And thirdly, I do believe it is dangerous. As Alison said, there are documented cases of FTT being attributed to this book. Even taking parental responsibility into account, these fools are still advocating reckless feeding practices with newborns.

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Seems to me all he's doing is deflecting, not answering the questions, answering a question with another question and just fuckin' avoiding the real issues people have with him and his "method". EEK!

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Here's an interview with Gary Ezzo!

http://babyparenting.about.com/gi/o.htm?...

Minnie - posted on 09/18/2010

How about people actually put reason behind their choices to hate babywise. Isn't that what its about, I'd be willing to listen if someone actualkly gave good reason as opposed to just saying it's stupid and thats it



Beck- I've provided several posts stating why I am very much against this book.

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

I'm not completely opposed to "babywise" parenting and I'm sure I even do some things that fit the mold BUT Ezzo is extreme....I don't like HIM!

Alison - posted on 09/18/2010

I'm sorry if I've already posted on this thread and forgot about it.



I have my concerns about babywise, but I don't hate it. I'm sure there are some tips in the book that are useful to parents who can trust their instincts and know when to follow the advice and when to abandon it.



My concerns are based on the fact that there are real cases of babies that failed to thrive when the parents continued to follow the advice even though their babies were not gaining weight. I've also read posts from mothers who claim that following babywise caused their brestmilk supply to dry up. I know these things are not entirely the fault of babywise and the parents must accept responsibility for their own choices, so I'm not entirely against the book.

Beck - posted on 09/18/2010

How about people actually put reason behind their choices to hate babywise. Isn't that what its about, I'd be willing to listen if someone actualkly gave good reason as opposed to just saying it's stupid and thats it

Teresa - posted on 09/18/2010

Ahh... memories. Defending Babywise on this post was the reason I joined this debate board in the first place. Little, naive me.... look what I got myself into. ;)

Minnie - posted on 09/18/2010

Me too, Erin. Parents Against Babywise!

Erin - posted on 09/18/2010

Definitely Babystupid.. it's dangerous, negligent and goes completely against all natural maternal instincts. I'm actually a member of an anti-Babywise group on FB lol.

Lyndsay - posted on 09/18/2010

I never heard of this either, but I will say that my son was on a strict feeding schedule. He had his bottle every 2 hours then 3 hours then 4 hours as he got older. We never had any issues with this, he always ate what he was given and was fine until the next one, but I think it may be because we started it in the hospital so it was the only thing he knew. When he was born he was jaundiced and sleepy and wouldn't wake up to eat on his own, so every couple hours I would have to wake him and feed him... it worked in the beginning and it continued to work, and he was a very healthy baby.

April - posted on 09/18/2010

baby stupid, no question!!!

Chatty - posted on 09/18/2010

Ezzo is an extremist....a nutjob if you will!

Dawn - posted on 09/18/2010

I use a variety of different parenting styles, but I will say that fanatical attachment parenting gives me the creeps. I wasn't able to breastfeed so maybe this play into why I "scheduled" (more like tracked and adjusted) my son's feeding when he was young. I haven't read any of the Babywise books but I think I will get Toddlerwise...sounds like there is some quality information.

Minnie - posted on 09/18/2010

Ive never read the book never even heard of it but in regards to the giving three or four hourly feeds thats what my mother and sister did with their kids when i had mine i'd never heard of demand feeding. I remember my brother being bottlefed every four hours



This is normal for formula feeding. However, most breastfeeding mothers cannot maintain adequate milk production with feedings spaced out like this. Women have different storage capacity in their breasts. Continued milk production is dependent on frequent feedings in the early weeks. This causes numerous prolactin receptors to be laid down. Many breastfeeding mothers who follow schedules like this find that they cannot maintain milk production beginning around four months because of how infrequent feedings were in the early weeks. It is important to understand that scheduling can create breasts that are full enough that they begin to actively reduce milk production. It also is an excellent way to create a foremilk/hindmilk imbalance.



I still don't understand how anyone can trust this man. What about his credentials makes anyone assume that he knows what he's talking about? Is it not concerning that the AAP has condemned his book?



I do agree with Corena in that there are certain factors predisposing babies/mothers to being successful with this method of infant care. Complacent babies tend to be more easy-going and not complain so much. Mothers with large milk storage capacities are able to still maintain milk production despite scheduled feedings. But they jump to conclusions and say that Ezzo's method is wonderful- it worked for them, yes, but it definitely is not beneficial to the majority of breastfeeding dyads.

Beck - posted on 09/18/2010

I am a strong believer in babywise and it has worked perfectly to get my children into the routine of sleeping through the night and have also been well fed and are now thriving. If you read the book he does not say you are to starve your children. He also says do not start this til your baby is at least 2 months old.

It does not say to starve your child. If your child does not feed leave them some time til the are ready, it doesn't say sit there waiting with your baby on the boob, or with the bottle til it is ready. You will have your whole day taken up with a fussy baby, if they don't feed they don't feed and then you need to give them some time ready to eat a full feed so they don't get into the snacking habit.

I really like the fact my children did get into a routine to eat, as it kept them happy knowing exactly when they would be fed and had their nice time to play between time and also that I could get stuff done for them and spend time playing with them too.

Corena - posted on 02/18/2010

I am not a fan of Babywise.
My experience has been that the only kids it works for are kids who are so laid back right from the start that pretty much any parenting method would have worked.
My best friends were convinced to use baby wise with their daughter when she was born. She was NOT a laid back child and it was a truly horrific experience that they completely regret.

Susanne - posted on 02/14/2010

Ive never read the book never even heard of it but in regards to the giving three or four hourly feeds thats what my mother and sister did with their kids when i had mine i'd never heard of demand feeding. I remember my brother being bottlefed every four hours and i also remember he never used to scream his head off for more in between about ten minutes before he'd start fussing and then one of us would get up and start warming a bottle for him. It was the same with my nieces. I dont think this is cruel its just the way it used to be done. When i had my own kids demand feeding had come in and was all the rage and that was what i did but i wouldnt condemn anyone for doing it the other way. In regards to the other thing about 2 year olds cleaning up after themselves if they have an accident where i live my sons start school at three so they have to be independant going to the toilet so i started teaching them to wipe themselves after a poo and to change their clothes if they wet themselves as i was potty training them.

Alison - posted on 02/13/2010

I find it stange that the supporting article would be titled "Parenting God's Way" if it discourages AP and breastfeeding on demand. God gave us instincts and an adjustable milk supply that is available on demand. This would lead me to assume that feeding, sleeping and comforting on demand is parenting God's way.

I've never read the book because I was advised no to. There probably is some good advice that could be useful, but I don't personally like to follow any parenting book too rigidly. I tend to trust my instincts and I'm all for feeding on demand. I'm not saying that this book discourages these things, but thats the impression I got.

Liane - posted on 02/13/2010

I actually read Babywise and Babywise 2. I did use a lot of the techniques in the first book with my two daughters (now 9 & 7). I found them extremely helpful as a new mom who was pretty clueless. As with most parenting advice books, you have to pick and choose the items that work for you. There were several things I didn't use from the books either. What I found especially useful was the the "order" of events for a babies routine to help with sleeping: eat, play then sleep. A lot of BF babies like to fall asleep nursing but then don't nap/sleep well at night. Once I implemented this my babies became much better sleepers. I also found the crying cues information extremely helpful with my first born. Her crying completely un-nerved me and it all sounded the same until I read this book. The descriptions allowed me to decipher what her cries actually meant.

Obviously, parenting books/advice doesn't work for everyone. I just wanted to let people know that these particular books can be useful to some people. One last note, I now have a 7 month old son - can't say I've followed the Babywise routine very well with this one and he seems to be a much clingier, needier baby without any predictable schedule. It may just be because he's a boy, but I often wonder what he'd be like now if I had used this technique from the start.

Alison - posted on 02/11/2010

When I was pregnant I went to a parenting class and they told us to stay away from babywise.

Melissa - posted on 02/11/2010

I know nothing about babywise or ezzo. But my son has pretty much always been on a feeding schedule, although, he has also always eaten. He has never refused to eat and is plenty 'healthy'.

But I also think that it all depends on the child, my son needs me to hold him, a lot! But it isn't really me, it is just holding. He doesn't really care who is holding him as long as he is off the floor, he has a short attention span and like so move around.

Teresa - posted on 01/01/2010

Babywise has some very good advice. Definitely doesn't work for every family. Not even every child in the SAME family. Admittedly, I haven't read ALL of the books, but I have read (though have a crummy memory and don't own) Babywise, Babywise 2, and Toddlerwise and agree w/ the concepts... though not neccessarily all the specific advice. Caring for a child's needs is crucial, but child-centered parenting isn't healthy for anyone in the family.



I never actually used Babywise specifically (didn't read it til my girls were toddlers), but my girls were on a feeding schedule right from birth and it worked for us. Didn't work for my son.



Having read the actual book though I think it is ludicrous that parents/doctors can blame the BOOK for a child's failure to thrive. Hello? The author says to use YOUR judgement for YOUR child?!



And I can't believe I joined this community just to respond to this post. This kind of debates make me furious and I let myself get sucked in..... Yep, I'm a sucker. :)

Good Day! - posted on 01/01/2010

Quoting Sara:

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Baby-Wise...

Click on the book to take a look. I admit, it's only a few pages, but in those pages he says that attatchment parenting is "dangerous." I strongly disagree.

It must have led me to a different page because I didn't see anything about attatchment parenting. It talked about child-centered parenting, is that what you were referring to? Either way, thats not how I parent so I don't have a problem with what I read. Not saying my husband and I ignore our daughter. We both love her more than we could ever imagine and love nothing more than spending the day together, the three of us. But our marriage comes first. A child needs a mother and father (not putting down single parents at all...but in an ideal world every child would have both). I could go on about that, but I'll stop.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/31/2009

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Baby-Wise...

Click on the book to take a look. I admit, it's only a few pages, but in those pages he says that attatchment parenting is "dangerous." I strongly disagree.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/31/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sara:

I'm not going to read the book. The OP is my opinion. I've read parts of the book that I can find on Amazon (the parents should avoid giving baby attention on demand, attachment parenting is bad stuff). I don't want to waste my money on it.

Those things seem to be out of context. Message me your address and I'lll mail you my copy. Or go to the library. And in the OP you clearly say that Ezzo believes in a strict feeding schedule which I've proved to be untrue. You can't tear apart a book you've never read.

I wanted to add that I honestly don't expect you to change your mind. I just want to challenge you to look at a different viewpoint. Think about how much better your argument would be if you did read the book. And I want to apologize if at anytime I seemed harsh. I'm playing devil's advocate for the most part. Like I said, I did use parts of the book but only the parts that I felt would work for me.

No, you're not harsh...but you haven't read all of the books either.  The parts I did read were from Babywise 2 (there's also On Becoming Birthwise, Babywise, Babywise 2, Pottywise, Toddlerwise, Childwise, Preteen wise and Teenwise.  I think that's it).  I may check it out of the library, but like you said it won't change my mind about him especially since he disagrees with the way I already parent my child. 

Good Day! - posted on 12/30/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sara:

I'm not going to read the book. The OP is my opinion. I've read parts of the book that I can find on Amazon (the parents should avoid giving baby attention on demand, attachment parenting is bad stuff). I don't want to waste my money on it.

Those things seem to be out of context. Message me your address and I'lll mail you my copy. Or go to the library. And in the OP you clearly say that Ezzo believes in a strict feeding schedule which I've proved to be untrue. You can't tear apart a book you've never read.

I wanted to add that I honestly don't expect you to change your mind. I just want to challenge you to look at a different viewpoint. Think about how much better your argument would be if you did read the book. And I want to apologize if at anytime I seemed harsh. I'm playing devil's advocate for the most part. Like I said, I did use parts of the book but only the parts that I felt would work for me.

Good Day! - posted on 12/30/2009

Quoting Sara:

I'm not going to read the book. The OP is my opinion. I've read parts of the book that I can find on Amazon (the parents should avoid giving baby attention on demand, attachment parenting is bad stuff). I don't want to waste my money on it.

Those things seem to be out of context. Message me your address and I'lll mail you my copy. Or go to the library. And in the OP you clearly say that Ezzo believes in a strict feeding schedule which I've proved to be untrue. You can't tear apart a book you've never read.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/30/2009

I'm not going to read the book. The OP is my opinion. I've read parts of the book that I can find on Amazon (the parents should avoid giving baby attention on demand, attachment parenting is bad stuff). I don't want to waste my money on it.

Good Day! - posted on 12/30/2009

Again, ASSESS the situation. The authors recognize that all babies are different and feedings may be different. They also recognize that at different points during infancy the baby may need more or less food. And the article you quoted recognized that most babies do fall into a bell curve. Wouldn't that mean that most babies need food at the about the same intervals? Of course there will be variations. It is up to parents to use common sense to figure this out.

Baby came into my life, I did not come into hers. Yes, that requires me to make changes in my life but baby is not in control. Am I going to deny her food because it is inconvienient? OF COURSE NOT. That would make me unfit to be a parent. But I'm not going to stick my boob in her mouth everytime she cries. As adults we have the ability to assess a stituation and make a choice about what is best.

Please read the book before posting anymore false information (the original thread post). I do appreciate the fact that you are very polite though you vehemetly disagree with me. I think we both know that this could have been a very explosive conversation.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/30/2009

This was posted in another community about cue feeding (for breastfed babies):
From: http://www.fix.net/~rprewett/evidence.ht...
"Babywise
Authors Gary Ezzo and Robert Bucknam have misleadingly redefined the term and thus smoke-screened the issue. Babies need to eat or drink when they need to, and that is as individual in intervals and duration as the infinite variety of humankind. Yes, there are averages that may fit into a bell-shaped curve model, but by definition there will also be babies who fall on either side, requiring very short or needing only longer nursing intervals. Temperature, activity, teething or health may also affect these needs and patterns. No schedule, not even a "flexible routine", allows for this variation, because the base premise is that parents, by virtue of being adults, know better than baby what the baby's needs are at every point in time. A baby's cries, his most dramatic expression of need, are instead routinely interpreted through an artificial filter that precludes the possibility that many babies are not going to behave like THE average baby and may actually have needs that we have not anticipated. Thus, we lose our ability to understand what is truly "good" for our baby because we are no longer open to learning from him, but only to "teaching" him -- imposing upon him-- how to be a culturally model baby."

I found it interesting because that is what I get from Babywise, that the adult knows better than the baby because we're the adult. I don't believe that. Babies are born with instincts and reflexes for a reason and I believe in following those cues (like feeding when you see signs of hunger).

Good Day! - posted on 12/30/2009

The first one. I wasn't aware that there were more until this thread.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/30/2009

Quoting Sara:

Well, it seems that while I went to find my book (we just moved and I have 16 boxes of books still to unpack so it was no easy task!) and skim through it, this topic has gone dead. Oh well, I'll post what I read anyway.

1. Okay, so nothing about physical punishment for a 6 month old.
2. Also nothing about skipping a feeding.
3. They recommend scheduled feedings but there is a purpose. They want the child to fill up at every feeding instead of "snacking." They recommend every 2.5 to 3 hours but make it clear that you are the parent and it is your job to assess if your child needs to be fed more often. They suggest that if milk supply is low to add another feeding or two to the schedule.
4. They give growth charts to help you moniter and be sure you child is progressing as they should.
5. About crying, nothing in there about ignoring it. Yes, they do recommend that you allow your child to cry for up to 15 minutes to learn to fall asleep. But they also discribe several different cries that require immediate attention. Again, you are the parent and it is your job to assess the stituation.
6. Cuddling in encouraged and not scheduled ( I think someone said that in an earlier post). They just recommend that you don't rock the baby to sleep.
7. Attachment parenting is not encouraged though they recognize that some mothers thrive off it. Baby slings are not encouraged. (This I found silly. I wanted to use a sling but didn't ever find one that I liked.)

I think the purpose of this book is to help weary parents find a balance and way to help their babies sleep and have a semi-predictable feeding schedule. I don't have a problem with that. About the articles with dehydrated kids, it seems like they didn't really read the book or followed someone else's version of the book. I don't know though. Anyway, I found parts of the book helpful and it worked for me. I would be happy to discuss or expand on any of the points made above.

Which book do you have?  There are several for different age groups.  The book I read parts of was for 5 months-15 months. One of the main reasons I don't agree with Babywise is because of the way he bashes 'child-centered parenting' aka attachment parenting.

Kimberly - posted on 12/30/2009

Quoting Sara:

Well, it seems that while I went to find my book (we just moved and I have 16 boxes of books still to unpack so it was no easy task!) and skim through it, this topic has gone dead. Oh well, I'll post what I read anyway.

1. Okay, so nothing about physical punishment for a 6 month old.
2. Also nothing about skipping a feeding.
3. They recommend scheduled feedings but there is a purpose. They want the child to fill up at every feeding instead of "snacking." They recommend every 2.5 to 3 hours but make it clear that you are the parent and it is your job to assess if your child needs to be fed more often. They suggest that if milk supply is low to add another feeding or two to the schedule.
4. They give growth charts to help you moniter and be sure you child is progressing as they should.
5. About crying, nothing in there about ignoring it. Yes, they do recommend that you allow your child to cry for up to 15 minutes to learn to fall asleep. But they also discribe several different cries that require immediate attention. Again, you are the parent and it is your job to assess the stituation.
6. Cuddling in encouraged and not scheduled ( I think someone said that in an earlier post). They just recommend that you don't rock the baby to sleep.
7. Attachment parenting is not encouraged though they recognize that some mothers thrive off it. Baby slings are not encouraged. (This I found silly. I wanted to use a sling but didn't ever find one that I liked.)

I think the purpose of this book is to help weary parents find a balance and way to help their babies sleep and have a semi-predictable feeding schedule. I don't have a problem with that. About the articles with dehydrated kids, it seems like they didn't really read the book or followed someone else's version of the book. I don't know though. Anyway, I found parts of the book helpful and it worked for me. I would be happy to discuss or expand on any of the points made above.

So it sounds like the book got a bad rep.  I would actually be interested to read it.  I guess with all "instruction" books you should talk to your (or baby's) doctor first.

Good Day! - posted on 12/29/2009

Well, it seems that while I went to find my book (we just moved and I have 16 boxes of books still to unpack so it was no easy task!) and skim through it, this topic has gone dead. Oh well, I'll post what I read anyway.

1. Okay, so nothing about physical punishment for a 6 month old.
2. Also nothing about skipping a feeding.
3. They recommend scheduled feedings but there is a purpose. They want the child to fill up at every feeding instead of "snacking." They recommend every 2.5 to 3 hours but make it clear that you are the parent and it is your job to assess if your child needs to be fed more often. They suggest that if milk supply is low to add another feeding or two to the schedule.
4. They give growth charts to help you moniter and be sure you child is progressing as they should.
5. About crying, nothing in there about ignoring it. Yes, they do recommend that you allow your child to cry for up to 15 minutes to learn to fall asleep. But they also discribe several different cries that require immediate attention. Again, you are the parent and it is your job to assess the stituation.
6. Cuddling in encouraged and not scheduled ( I think someone said that in an earlier post). They just recommend that you don't rock the baby to sleep.
7. Attachment parenting is not encouraged though they recognize that some mothers thrive off it. Baby slings are not encouraged. (This I found silly. I wanted to use a sling but didn't ever find one that I liked.)

I think the purpose of this book is to help weary parents find a balance and way to help their babies sleep and have a semi-predictable feeding schedule. I don't have a problem with that. About the articles with dehydrated kids, it seems like they didn't really read the book or followed someone else's version of the book. I don't know though. Anyway, I found parts of the book helpful and it worked for me. I would be happy to discuss or expand on any of the points made above.

Good Day! - posted on 12/26/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Sara:

Its been more than 1.5 years ago since I read it but I honestly don't remember anything in there about punishing 6 mo. olds. I'll go back and check. That seems extreme so I think that would have stood out to me.

This is just out of curiosity...were there any parts that did seem too extreme for you? 

Nothing that I can think of at this moment.  But, I think you should read it. At the very least it would give you a one up in your arguments because you can use direct quotes...lol.

Kimberly - posted on 12/25/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Kimberly:

OMG did people make money off this?! Let me get this straight...my child is hungry but I'm going to deny them food if they don't learn to eat on time. What the hell?! Wow...and I should start the punishing at 6 months...umm...I'm going to go ahead and say this is ridiculous. Curious how these people do potty training...probably rub their childs face in their poop like a dog...ugh!

I read a part of the Pottywise book on the internet.  After 2 years old, the child has to clean up their own accidents.

Wow!!! I was attempting to be sarcastic by being absurd!!!  Okay that just makes me sad.  I'm all for trying to teach and empower your child and I believe the sooner you start the better but instead of putting my child on an alarm clock to eat and hitting them on the nose with a rolled up newspaper couldn't we just read to out kids?, expose them to multiple languages?, sing to them?  I just think there's a better way to help our babies and children grow to be productive members of society.   All I can do is shake my head.  I know there's not handbook on raising your child and these are just one of several "methods" offered out there but this seems irresponsible at best.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 12/25/2009

Quoting Kimberly:

OMG did people make money off this?! Let me get this straight...my child is hungry but I'm going to deny them food if they don't learn to eat on time. What the hell?! Wow...and I should start the punishing at 6 months...umm...I'm going to go ahead and say this is ridiculous. Curious how these people do potty training...probably rub their childs face in their poop like a dog...ugh!

I read a part of the Pottywise book on the internet.  After 2 years old, the child has to clean up their own accidents.