Black people getting over "it"

Tah - posted on 04/19/2010 ( 188 moms have responded )

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A thread was started on another site and The OP wanted to know if black people should get over all the discrimination that goes on in the world..Now this thread was emotional for me because as a black woman, I experience this all the time, at the store, work, school...and all my friends and family have and continue to go through this often...I was upset and still am..It was suggested on this thread that is we ignore the racism and discrimination...it will go away...so i have questions because i always think it is interesting to see how people really see things....

How many of you think that we as black people should get over it?

How many of you think that if we ignore the profiling, racial violence..like the woman in ga who was beat by a white man outside of of a restaurant in front of her daughter in nov while he called her "f&*^%^g Nigger B!T&H..and all the other instances of this that it will "go away"

How many of you know that there are people who teach their children hate even if you don't?

How many of you think I am wrong for being hurt and offended that people really feel this way when they could never walk a mile in my shoes and would never want to?

I don;t want people to worry about feelings..we want to be a group that debates so lets debate this..i won't be closing this thread if people dont feel the way I do..i just really want to know how other people feel..honestly...

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Geralyn - posted on 04/21/2010

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Instead of teaching our children to ignore color differences or culture differences, and instead of saying things like I don't care whether someone is black or white or blue or purple, why can't we embrace our differences? I have friends from a variety of backgrounds and cultures, and it truly is a learning experience for all of us. I love learning about other peoples' religions, culture, heritage, etc. We have to accept and embrace our differences in order to truly accept each other.



Historically, in the US, each and every nationality or religion has been subjected to discrimination and prejudice. It was a huge deal when we had our first Catholic president - John F. Kennedy - due to fears that somehow the Pope would be running our country. The Irish catholics in the late 1800s and early 1900s were disciminated against - businesses hung signs warning "Irish Catholics need not apply" for employment. Italian, Jewish, Chinese, Japanese, the list goes on.... People fear anyone that is different.



With that said, the African Americans have been subjected to discrimination and hatred based upon the color of their skin, and while I would like to think that it is improving one person at a time, there are systemic issues that perpetuate discrimination. It is NOT my intent to ignore other people of other races/nationalities/religions who have been subjected to discrimination. I do not have solutions per se - however, I fully support the civil rights protections that have been carved out to protect all classes (age, gender, race, sexual orientation) subjected to discrimination; they target systemic issues, but they really do not do a lot to change individuals' mindsets. Religion has also not done a lot to assist with individuals' mindsets either.



I was very proud when Obama was elected president. My son was 9 months when he was sworn into office, and I explained to him that he was witnessing history in the making. I was moved. There are many people in this country who are uncomfortable (understatement) that we have a president whose father was black and mother was white. They judge him, and his decisions, based solely on his skin color. In spite of this, Obama is working hard to address race relations in this country in addition to a number of other huge issues that he has had to deal with. He is an incredible role model for any child regardless of color.

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...at least one person on here knows she is and admitted it...while others say things and don't even realize they are... --Tah

Have you admitted that you are a little racist too? Just curious, because whether you realize it or not, you are coming off sounding as though you group most white people into a discriminatory stereotype, and that, in itself is racist.

You never did answer my question, should I be teaching my son to expect violent behavior from many black people, and to not be surprised when they call him a "cracker" and commit violent crimes?

I could show that they are the majority with studies too! : in 2007 over 10% of black males were incarcerated compared to 2% of white males and 1% of all other races. It couldn't possibly be because they are committing the most crimes could it??

Most victims of race crime—about 90 per cent—are white, according to the survey "Highlights from 20 Years of Surveying Crime Victims", published in 1993.

Blacks thus committed 7.5 times more violent inter-racial crimes than whites even though the black population is only one-seventh the size of the white population. When these figures are adjusted on a per capita basis, they reveal an extraordinary disparity: blacks are committing more than 50 times the number of violent racial crimes of whites. (US justice Dept.)

According to the latest annual report on murder by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, most inter-racial murders involve black assailants and white victims, with blacks murdering whites at 18 times the rate that whites murder blacks.

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"i have to have to teach my children that SOME people..not all..will judge him by the color of his skin and not his character. I have to teach my son that. I have to teach him that he needs to be twice as good to be considered even to some people. I have to teach him that not everybody is gonna want him to date their daughter, no matter if they say it to him or not. I have to teach him that if he gets pulled over by the cops to keep his hands on the wheel, dont argue and if they are wrong..fight it in court...for his safety..we know hoe many people have been shot for "reaching" for some "gun" that wasn't there. Watch the company he keeps. and whatever else I have to teach him..." --Tah Dula



People of EVERY race have to teach their children those things, you don't have to teach him that just because he is black. I teach my son that he has to be the best to be considered for scholarships, sports, and other awards (promotions and jobs in the future)--they don't give them to just anyone, they give them to the best of the best regardless of race. Not everybody is going to want MY son to date THEIR daughter, many black people hold the same view that people should marry within their race--in fact there are a lot of every race that hold to that view. EVERYBODY knows that you keep your hands on the wheel and don't argue when you get pulled over by a cop--it's not just black people who have to follow that rule. My cousin is white, and he got shot for reaching for his registration in the dashboard--he should have known better, that's common sense.



By teaching that these conditions apply to him just because he is black, you are perpetuating the cycle. He will come to see most white people as oppressive as he grows up. You are also giving him excuses and he doesn't need that--If he gets passed up for a promotion because a white candidate was more qualified, unless he has access to that person's resume and interview (which would be nearly impossible), he will be forced to wonder weather he was passed up because he was black, or because he was less qualified. He will think, "I know I was good enough, but the white guy got the job b/c I'm black" and resentment will build against the boss, the guy who got the job and eventually spread to resentment against all white people who get jobs black people also applied to because according to your logic, the black people were twice as qualified, but were passed over b/c they were black, when the reality is that the most qualified person, black, white, Asian, whatever, was hired or promoted.



Do you see where I'm going with this?



By teaching him not to be surprised that he was called a name at school b/c of his color, you are teaching him that that behavior is expected and that there are a lot of people with those view, when in fact those people make up a very small minority. He SHOULD be surprised if he gets called a name b/c of his color, because most Americans do not think that is acceptable and would never do that.

My son was called a "cracker" at a park by a group of not so nice older black kids. It made him cry. Is that acceptable? No! Should we expect to be treated that way by other black people? No! Of course not, because most black people do not talk that way, and it should not be expected, and I am not going to teach my son that he should expect black people to degrade him.

Mary - posted on 04/19/2010

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Tah, you hit on one of the unfortunate "side effects" of affirmative action. It gave many an insecure, disgruntled white man the idea that a minority succeeded only because of skin color, and not because of actual qualifications.



It was a well-intentioned plan, and in many, many places it was necessary to force companies to hire or promote minorities who before would simply refuse to do so based on gender or skin color. Sadly, there were some instances where a more qualified applicant lost out due to needing to meet a quota. While there is a part of me that wants to say boo-fucking-hoo, for one time in a thousand, a white man lost out on a job because of HIS skin color, I do understand that if YOU were that guy, it would make you bitter and resentful...and could increase racist sentiments.



I don't think it is reasonable for anyone to expect blacks to "get over it"...we are talking about CENTURIES of toment, abuse and oppression. And while many of us white girls on this site like to pat ourselves on the back for teaching our children to be colorblind, the truth is, there are far too many people in this world who teach their children hatred and prejudice based on race. While things may be better than they were 50 years ago, they are far from perfect. I also think that many, many whites do a lot of lip service to being "color blind", and teaching this to their children, but would also be horrified if their white child married a black person. Perhaps not in KKK-lynch-him-and-hang-him-by-a-noose manner, but unhappy about it just the same. No, I still think society has a looonnnggg way to go with regards to true racial equality and acceptance.

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Kelly, I hope you enjoy that Cajun food. There is nothing like it!



Back on topic:



I want to point out that while some of those studies were a little old, institutionalized racism is still around. The following experience has nothing to do with death penalties. I just want to demonstrate that racism is still happening and not just on an individual level.



When I was a student at LSU (in 2007) some idiot thought it would be a fantastic idea to make and sell Confederate flags in the school's colors of purple and gold. People were bringing them to football games which is a bold statement as the stadium holds 90,000 people and most of the football team is Black.



The Black Student Union on campus started holding peaceful demonstrations against the flags. These comprised of a student leader standing on a bench in the Quad (busy area of the school) and hold discussions with other students about the flag. No fights ever broke out. Some idiots stood on the opposite side of the Quad with their flags.



The Black Student Union decided to hold a re-union for the Alumni during the weekend of the homecoming game. At the last minute they decided to hold a march from the Black History Museum on campus to the football stadium in protest of the flags. The school approved. Another group of students decided to get approval to protest the protest with their flags.



Guess what the school did? They shut down the entire Black Student Union re-union! Not just the march (which was meant to be peaceful) but the entire event. They even locked up the museum the week prior to homecoming. The school did nothing to the people with the flags because that would have been infringing on their rights to free speech. The reason stated was safety. They didn't want violence to occur on campus. Well, there had been protests all along with no violence. And if anyone was going to get violent it wasn't the BSU as they were preaching anti-violence during their protests and discussions.



The above is a first hand account, as I was involved, though I am not Black. One of the leaders thanked "the white sister" for showing up at the protest. =)



I also personally knew some of those the insisted on carrying the stupid Confederate flag. When it was pointed out that by waving that they were insulting their football team they rooted for every weekend, the reply was, "There are bigger things than football."



Makes me want to yell curse words and I am not a potty mouth.



So my point of view comes from this experience, as well as several others I could spend hours typing out for your reading pleasure. In my opinion, Black people have the right to be a little pissed. And the rest of us shouldn't ignore it, but fight back with them.

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Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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I want to say 2 things before i close this post..

i started this post because of 2 previous post regarding race..i have never done a post like this and i did know it would go the way that it has. I know there may been some hurt feeling or misunderstandings and for whatever part i played in that i apologize. Everyone is entitled their views and if i agree or not, i respect you ladies for repsonding and being honest and sharing your views. I can't say i am leaving this post with a light heart..I am not..but that is besides the point. I think we all, including myself have learned somethings and that is a good thing.

the second thing is that i wish all you ladies peace blessings and the very best life has to offer..

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But Lyndsay, can't we just say that we should all be fighting against racism of any kind? Instead of saying get over because everyone experiences it, can't we say let's all pull together and fight back?

Lyndsay - posted on 04/21/2010

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Okay, no offense... but yes, I think you should get over it. Black people are not the only people in the world who are discriminated against, but a lot of you tend to act that way. Sure, hate crimes suck. But honestly, they happen to everyone. Right now in my city there is an issue with people spray painting swastikas on Jewish synagogues, it's been going on for years.

People are racist against whites too. People assume that we hate everyone but our own kind and that we're arrogant, stuck up, rich people who like to flaunt our social superiority. Totally not true in most cases. Lots of white people are on welfare too.

Ramona - posted on 04/21/2010

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And christian white males ARE the majority in this country and they are the least likely to be profiled in any way.

Ramona - posted on 04/21/2010

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By "gangster and disrespectful", I guess I'm referring to "gangsas," those who feel entitled to jump anyone who looks at them wrong and believes that the oppression they have faced is an excuse for breaking the law. I am only suggesting that the poster who said this may have been referring to that type of behavior, not simply individuals living productive lives who happen to be African American.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Amanda, I don't think you're pigheaded, stupid, or anything else of the like. In fact, since I saw the other thread that was created called "A license to profile.....what is this world coming to.." I honestly believe that the creator of this thread is just obsessed with racial issues.

@ Tah... I respected you once upon a time, for reasons that had *nothing* to do with your race. Now I can say that I don't, you had people riled on a topic you knew nothing about, you now have others riled in a topic (and you're being smartaleck in some responses - not even debating), and both are in regards to racial matters. The only conclusion is that you're completely obsessed with race.

Like Amanda, I'm done with this topic. This is extremely out of control.

Amanda - posted on 04/21/2010

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thanks for insinuating that im pigheaded, or just stupid ... and actually, i WILL take your advice... i am done with this topic...

and i could also care less if it ends up closed, i just thought it would, sorry for stating my opinion more than once... smh

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Brandy:

"I have heard other white people tell jokes about black/east indian/mexican people because they are not there to hear it and I tell them what I think of it and they always say "it's just a joke, I'm not racist, I just heard it somewhere" but I think that's BS"

What about those that tell jokes about their own race? I know plenty of people like that.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Tah, you answered my question back then. The only reason I posted that is because you kept on and on, replying to other people who were on and on about you saying white people. You were saying that you didn't say all white, you said some, not all.
"...I TOLD MY SON SOME PEOPLE...NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE"

I wasn't asking you to answer anything I put up there. It was for you to see that you said "white" nothing about some or all.

The only thing you said in there about any other races was this:

"i dont teach my son white people are bad and are the only ones that will do this and that"

The rest of it was all about white people.

"why would i thik they haven't or wont take it further i dont just encourage his best because white people may discriminate"

"its not like everyday im telling him hey watch out for this and that....you dont start wearing a seatbelt after the accident(well not if your smart) you do it as a precaution"

It comes off sounding as though you have something against white people.
Even recently, in a different post you state the following:

"if i had Koreans, hispanics or little martians who have said or done these things to me, or my family and friends..then i my reaction would be no different..i would not think it was all of them...i would still teach my son that some people will feel a certain way about him and so on.."

So, yes, it can be misinterpreted. You're not mentioning other races when you're talking about what you teach your child(ren), you're talking about white people because of your experiences. I hope you realize this world isn't black and white. Just because you have korean friends, hispanic friends, or mixed friends... you should know that doesn't count... you said so yourself.

Unless you've been in their shoes, you wouldn't understand. The people you presume to be white may not be white. They could *look* white, but they may be mixed as well. I know a few people who are mixed and look whiter than white... or actually look hispanic and they're black.

The martyr comment, that isn't about you stating that things have happened to you. You're twisting my words there. If that were the case, I'd be a martyr and I know I'm not. You are a victim of discrimination, I know plenty of them. The ones that I know pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and go about their lives. Not ignoring it, not getting over it, but dealing with it and moving on. They tell those that are racist and choose to discriminate, (and I've heard it with my own two ears) that they have the choice, the freedom of speech, to say whatever they'd like. On the same hand, that 'victim' has the choice to walk away and not allow it to inflict them, their lives, or their families. The moment you (generally speaking) do, it's poisoned everything you are as a person. I was taught that by someone very dear to me. If you allow people like that to poison you, they poison your family.
We can talk about who racism hurts the most in the world, but for what? To allow the poison to go through everyone? It isn't going to solve anything. In fact, it just causes more damage than it does good. The fact is that it doesn't matter what color your skin is, it's not okay for anyone to have to deal with it, but it is a fact of life.

What makes a difference is how a person chooses to deal with it. If that person wants to wallow in what has happened to them and allow that poison to flow through themselves, their family, etc. then so be it. It's their choice. I choose a different path. To me those who decide to discriminate against me (for whatever reason) are not worth my time nor my effort. I'd rather pick myself up, dust myself off, and move on to bigger and better things and people.

Brandy - posted on 04/21/2010

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I despise racism. I don't think it should be ignored at all. I believe diversity is something that should be taught in schools in an attempt to help stop racism, not just towards black people, but towards all races. I think it's ridiculous to judge somebody by the color of their skin or ethnic background. It's very sad that the HUMAN race isn't beyond this. I have heard other white people tell jokes about black/east indian/mexican people because they are not there to hear it and I tell them what I think of it and they always say "it's just a joke, I'm not racist, I just heard it somewhere" but I think that's BS. I've also heard it the other way around though. I've met black people who think that all white people are the same and that we're all trash who like slavery and think we're better than everybody else. I think the people who are against racism just need to stand up for what they believe in more often because I garantee that if somebody says something racist and are confronted on it in a public situation, they will think twice before acting that way again. I live in Canada and I don't think that racism is as much of a public issue here as it is in the US (or maybe I just haven't heard of as many cases) but I think it would definately help if people knew their peers weren't accepting this behaviour from them.

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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okay another situation that i want to point about, about how talking about things that aren't necessary to talk about, or make into a race issue, perpetuates the cycle. after watching the movie "crash", there was a part in there about asian women are bad drivers. i'd never heard this before, but now that i heard this, a little part of me started to think that this was true, without any actual proof of this myself.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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suzette..i was far from offended..i answered your question...so let me go and look and see why you would think i was offended....and now i am making myself out to be a martyr because i state that things have happened to me...ok suzette...thank you as well.....

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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thank you tah, for answering the question. that's all i wanted to know if you pointed out to him that he needed to watch out for SOME WHITE people, or SOME people. that's all i was trying to get at.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Erin...he should have had his children taken away if he was red with white polka dots..and it was not because he was black..and thank you for understanding where i am coming from...people would like to imply that i am saying i am discriminated against everyday..i am not..but it has happened over and over and over again..but lets just say that i'm exagerrating to make it look better..please....people say off the wall things to you and then you live next to thema and see them everyday knowing that they think you are below them because of your skin color and it does hurt and you never know what they are going to say next, or maybe do..if i had Koreans, hispanics or little martians who have said or done these things to me, or my family and friends..then i my reaction would be no different..i would not think it was all of them...i would still teach my son that some people will feel a certain way about him and so on..

No we were not ever apologized to but people say thats horrible..but..it was long ago..or it doesn't happen as much now..always a excuse...so yes i do get defensive...but when you and sara and a few other ladies say..hey...it may be something to and i get where she is coming from and hey she is right about this or that..it is nice and encouraging and helpful so thank you...

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Tah you asked where you mentioned *white only* I brought it up. That's all that was doing, I wasn't asking you to defend it. Usually when people get defensive of what they've said, they have a reason for it. I could frankly give two craps what the study mentioned. If they're only considering white and black then it's worthless. There are numerous other races out there left out. It isn't a white and black world and those who see it that way need to open their eyes. Amanda is right, your points seem to be that blacks have it so much harder and you want everyone to sympathize or empathize with you, or with blacks in general. While people do, they're not going to say that they don't have it just as bad in some or most cases. I'll be outright blunt, until you admit that others have it just as bad in *todays* society, whether they respond with marches and sit ins or not, you're going to sound like you're trying to be a martyr. And I personally have no sympathy (or empathy) for a martyr. (For clarification, I'm referring to the definition of the martyr as one who makes themselves out to be a victim.)

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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whatever you say amanda...you mentioned it getting closed or probably will be closed...such and such no less than 3 times..if it is getting dumb..what i said on page 1 still apllies..there are plenty of other threads going on..i won't touch all the misinterpretations..because with you it would be pointless....

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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the study entailed..names considered white and names considered black..and yes i do teach him that...and because people were saying even then that i was teaching him white white white..and i don't....thats why i say people..yes most of the things that have happened to me or been said to me came from white people..but i don't tell my children..watch out for the white man...i say that some people...and that may be a black cop who pulls him over, or asian man that follows him in the store...yes he is taught like that and no it will not be different...

Amanda - posted on 04/21/2010

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Yeah, I don't recall ever trying to get the topic closed, I haven't tried flagging anything. I just think this is getting really dumb. 99% of the people on here have agreed that racism is a horrible thing, NO MATTER WHO IT HAPPENS TO... you... tah, in specific, are just arguing that blacks are way more mistreated than everyone, and you are trying to make it sound like you have to deal with being called a n*gger or some other racial problem every single day, which I hardly think is anywhere near the truth. All you, everyone, are arguing is to what degree it's an issue. No one has tried saying that it doesn't happen. They just are saying that it's highly doubtful that every black person in America gets racially profiled/slandered on a daily basis.

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Erin,



“I think MOST people PERIOD ARE racist! There are many different types of racism, unintentional, overt and blatant. So you folks teaching color blindness could fall in the unintentional racism category, your welcome! You know the horrible thing here is when black people are racist against their own group! Amazing isn't it!!!



My white husband is profiled and gets pulled over because he has an afro...there is no black in him, he could blind you with his whiteness, but his afro makes him look like a no good hippie. We get watched in stores when his hair is real long. And then the awesome part here, w/his afro black ppl love him like he's sporting blackness? (its red hair BTW) and then he has to shave his head, can't let it grow more then an inch or so because it just looks messy with all the curls, and all the white bastards associate him with the KKK. all because of hair! How nice!!!”



I should be doing homework too... haha!



You’re right, I’m guilty of stereotyping and probably discrimination to an extent. I don’t know (not that I think it’s not, I just don’t know) if it’s racism though. First, I get so damn peeved at people who abuse the government, and I think a lot of them are illegal immigrants (when I say this – I know it’s wrong – but I’m referring to Mexican illegal immigrants because that’s what I know from my world in Arizona). I consider them to be of MY own race even though I’m about as white as your husband probably! Why? Well, if you had gotten the chance to read my other posts, my Dad is Hispanic (step dad, but him and his whole family adopted me and I consider him the only man I’ve ever known as a Dad). His family, him, they all consider me to be a “white Mexican” and it’s stuck. I guess you could say that I’m a little discriminatory towards my own “culture” since that’s the culture I’ve had since I was 7 years old. Weird? I guess so. I don’t hate them for wanting what we have, I just want them to get it legally like my grandparents did. Ya know? And it pisses me off that they don’t. That’s all. But if that’s racism, well I’m guilty I guess.



The red hair, afro thing... my brother had the same problem, that’s the only reason I put that part in quotes. He had to shave his head too and then the skinheads in our area, however few there were, thought that he was sporting for them. Of course, his tattoo’s didn’t help the issue. Something about a skull on fire, all the sudden they would think he was their buddy or something. It was damn annoying! (Especially to him!)



I’ve been called worse than racist for disagreeing with Obama... like Un-American. Yeah, my husband is AD Army, I support him every day. I will support him through everything, everywhere that his career takes us... and not because he wants college money or we want insurance, but because he values what he’s fighting for, his freedom his family’s freedom, this country... and I’m not American. That’s laughable.



“We apologized to the Native Americans, we've tried to make up for other wrongs we've committed, but we just ignore the blacks and the crap we put them through! Sure I didn't but WE have to own it just the same!!! Blacks are still living in it and it is OUR fault!”



You’re right... the government *gave* them land that was theirs to begin with and then gave them *permission* to build casinos... on land that was already theirs. We made up for that quite well. On a side note, I don’t see/hear the Native Americans talking about the slavery that they endured (which was just as bad and happened before the slavery that was endured by blacks). I also don’t hear them talking about all the things they went through, which often times is not depicted properly in History teachings in the U.S., if anywhere.

I’m not going to get into a discussion about the slavery with blacks either, the teachings in History are incorrect if you (generally speaking) look back. While people did buy them and enslave them, they were not sold by those people until they’d already been sold *to* those people by their own tribes, at least *most* of the time. (Not all of the time, but most.) There were those that were kidnapped and sold illegally.



“I will be teaching them how everyone should be equal that no one should have to have this BS done to them and that they, as white men w/privilege, should stand up to other white men to make changes to help relieve oppression in all regards!”



If you’re in an area where white isn’t the minority and it is privilege. As far as I can see there aren’t many areas like that anymore. Most of the places I’ve been to Caucasian people are not the majority, they are not the privileged either. Maybe I’m just in the wrong areas to see what you’re talking about!

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Tah

“there will be employers who will see he is black and if they if it comes down to him and a white person..he may have to be twice as good as what that person offers to even be considered....”



I posted how I felt on that one, when I read it, above. Except for one thing, what if it's an Asian, Hispanic, etc. will it be different then? Or are you teaching about all other races? I'm seriously curious, I'm not trying to be rude. I want to know if you're teaching them that most of the time it's only white people that are accepted over blacks. I still disagree, but I'm curious nonetheless.



This was your response:



“im glad you dont have to teach them that suzette..everybody handles things differently..i know almost everyone on this post has been discriminated against and they all handle it in their own way...i dont teach my son white people are bad and are the only ones that will do this and that...but there were studies that showed people were discriminated against by their names alone, why would i thik they haven't or wont take it further i dont just encourage his best because white people may discriminate..i want his best regardless...its not like everyday im telling him hey watch out for this and that....you dont start wearing a seatbelt after the accident(well not if your smart) you do it as a precaution..i dont spew hate, and i told my son the same thing, people are taught that way...we dont sit around throwing darts at the pictures of white people and stick picks with black power fist in our afros and wear all black saying fight the power...”



That was the part where you mentioned ONLY white people.

[deleted account]

Ok so I didn't read everyones posts because 155 is alot! And I should REALLY be doing my homework, which is why i missed this to begin with :( Anyways...

I think MOST people PERIOD ARE racist! There are many different types of racism, unintentional, overt and blatant. So you folks teaching color blindness could fall in the unintentional racism category, your welcome! You know the horrible thing here is when black people are racist against their own group! Amazing isn't it!!!

My white husband is profiled and gets pulled over because he has an afro...there is no black in him, he could blind you with his whiteness, but his afro makes him look like a no good hippie. We get watched in stores when his hair is real long. And then the awesome part here, w/his afro black ppl love him like he's sporting blackness? (its red hair BTW) and then he has to shave his head, can't let it grow more then an inch or so because it just looks messy with all the curls, and all the white bastards associate him with the KKK. all because of hair! How nice!!!

Then i have a friend that is a real piece of work. He is black and his wife latino. He drank too much and smoked pot got DV called on him because they were fighting horribly loud. They both went to jail got the kids taken away etc. When she got out the state tried telling her to leave her husband so she could get her kids back, because the state was concerned for their safety as they have a violent father when he drinks...he beat up his oldest daughter because she talked to the police and sold him out! They (my friends who I don't talk to anymore BTW) kept saying that it was because he was black. They (state) were trying to rip his family apart because he was black! Because I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with beating up your poor defenseless 9 yr old daughter, being an abusive drunk and growing pot in your house! But hey if you wanna throw it all on being black! WHy not? So yeah, there are some people out there that are using black as a response to everything, like the mom that said shes been called racist just for disagreeing with our black president. Sure it happens! In this instance it was fn rediculous though! If my husband beat my child, was growing pot, had paraphenelia all over the house, and we were in a drunken argument and had a neighbor call the police for DV the state would have been trying to get ME out of that situation too! And heck we're both white...but hey that's neither here nor their...

Read POST TRAUMATIC SLAVE SYNDROME by Joy Leary. Its talks about the PTSD that slaves would have gone through for 400YEARS not being able to stand up for their family, provide for their kids, worry about getting their families torn apart, having to dum down their kids so they don't get sold to another place, have their women get gang raped and still have to sleep with them at night, all the while being helpless...So you do that for 400 yrs then you have many more years of segregation, crowe laws, etc and heck lets not forget it was the 60's, 1960!, before we started trying to unsegregate... So yeah! You have that kind of shit coming down through your past and you try seperating yourself from it! Read the book! Its FUCKED!!! There's no way anyone should ignore those attrocities! We NEED to learn what happened so we can deal with it, make sure it doesn't happen again...isn't that why we teach history? To not repeat it??? Part of the problem here is that black people have never really had anyone even apologize for it! We apologized to the Native Americans, we've tried to make up for other wrongs we've commited, but we just ignore the blacks and the crap we put them through! Sure I didn't but WE have to own it just the same!!! Blacks are still living in it and it is OUR fault!

In regards to Tah teaching her son about racism and what to expect...I agree! And I will also be teaching my two blond hair blue eyed male children that they should not expect or take advantage of being white and male! That regardless they need to do their best, not the little bit they have to to get by because they have white male privilege. I will also be teaching them the history of black people, native american people, japanese, irish, etc and the attrocities they have suffered at the hands of other white males and what they should expect because of it. I will be teaching them how everyone should be equal that no one should have to have this BS done to them and that they, as white men w/privilege, should stand up to other white men to make changes to help relieve oppression in all regards!

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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THANK YOU SARA...i guess i am off to tell my peers the other karate moms...(no seriously..my daughter has karate today...) to stop killing and committing crimes...then when i get to the bus stop i'll tell my peers there(the military spouses) the same..and when i get to work this weekend, i'll let the other nurses and the aids and everyone else(also my peers) to stop it..but since i don't know anybody who is out there stealing and committing those crimes..i'll send a memo to the people with the ganster and disrespectful attitudes telling them to stop it...

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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it does make alot of sense sara! BUT, why can't i teach my kid the "defensive karate" as well without being called a racist? why is it ok for her to do if she's black?

[deleted account]

To continue the hitting match analogy:



Someone hit Tah, not you but perhaps that neighbor with the dog. She's teaching her kids to be defensive against it so they won't get hurt. I guess she's teaching them defensive "karate". You are not hitting, but you are trying to understand why she's teaching her kids karate. Maybe you've been karate chopped and are a little upset by it. But if she doesn't teach the defensive karate her kids will be hit and beat down. She's not teaching them to karate chop you, but others that are trying to hit them.



Okay sorry if that sounded like crazy talk. I just liked that last analogy.



And about the KKK and other things...the KKK still exists. I don't feel responsible as a white person just because I'm white. But I do see a group of people de-humanizing another group of people. And it needs to stop. And I would feel responsible if I didn't do anything. Though I'm not the one causing the problem, if I don't fight back against it, I am part of the problem.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Carolee..i do teach him that...but he knows that their are differences also..as i said..he has friends of every color and when he talks about them i never even know what color they are until they ring my bell for him..because i don't tell him that all of anybody is going to do anything...because i know that isn't true...

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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I SAID I TAUGHT HIM SOME PEOPLE..if you go back and look, because you said that i said all white people so many times, i had to go back and go through line by line to recheck....and i already told you that i have done things such as volunteer with my peers(though i doubt you would know who my peers are..they certainly aren't murdering and crime committing black people)..helped them learn how to do resumes, tutored them, helped them learn interview skills and other things...but i did that too..so what have you done for my "peers" except tell us that we need to all dress in suits and stop killing so we will be perceived better...

Carolee - posted on 04/21/2010

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Okay... this goes for EVERYBODY!!! If somebody wants to see something bad, they WILL see it. It is far harder to see people for what and who they truly are rather than to just lump them together in a huge group. If we teach our children to look at others as INDIVIDUALS instead of groups, things would make a lot more sense. I don't think every black man I (would have, before I got married) date is going to break up with me by making me think he is dead. I don't think every white man I date is going to rape me. And I don't think every Mexican I date is going to knock me up and then leave me with $50 and a newborn! Those have been my experiences (just a few), but I don't hold that against ANYBODY other than those who actually DID those things to me!!! Why do people insist on grouping?

Suzette - posted on 04/21/2010

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Well I know my name isn't a white sounding name in Arizona. It's actually most commonly mistaken for Hispanic, even though it's actually French. (My mother chose to name me after a little girl she used to baby sit as a teenager whose family was French.) For all I know I've lost out on opportunities because of that, it wouldn't surprise me really, especially since up until I was married I had a hispanic last name... so the two went hand in hand. My daughter will have an unusual last name too... I wonder what she'll get mistaken for. But I'm not going to teach her to dwell on those types of things, and I'm not going to give her any other name. She'll move past the hardships and be better than the 'woe is me' because I won't allow it, and I know her Daddy won't either.

As far as the death row/crime statistics... for any crime statistics if a person commits the same crime as another person, and they are of a different race, the laws at the time that the crime was committed has to be taken into consideration. Not to mention the evidence that they have. My biological father who was convicted of murdering my step mother... he only received 37 1/2 years to life in the mid 90's. The crime was committed in the 80's though. So if you look at statistics from that time period, it would throw that completely off. Especially if there are others that that would be the case with. I'm sure that's not the only time something like that has happened either.



Oh and the reason my biological father only received that sentence is because the state he committed that act in, didn't have the death penalty at the time.



That's one of the reasons that studies/statistics are so very unreliable.

[deleted account]

I understood the point of the links you posted, but I don't think you understood the point of the statistics I posted. My point is black people are treated differently based on the ACTS of their peers, whether they are the majority or minority. The only way you are going to change people's perception of the way black people act (or the perception you believe they have of the way black people act) is to persuade your peers to act in a more acceptable manor.

Also, I never said you taught your son that ALL white people will discriminate against him, YOU said you taught him that some white people will discriminate against him so that he would expect it and not be surprised when it happened. YOU said you told him that a lot of what you had to teach him had to be taught just because he was black and needed to know it to protect him and prepare him for the way some white people would treat him. THAT is perpetuating racism. You didn't need to teach him any of the things you mentioned just because he is black, you needed to teach him those things because he is a PERSON--I have to teach my white kid everyone of the things you mentioned. I already went over that post, I don't know if you read the response or not, but I'm not going into it again.


The majority of violent criminals are black, but I don't see anywhere where you said "yes, you should teach your son to expect violence from black people." or "No, you should not teach your son to expect violence from black people." That would be the answer to my question.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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im sure i wont be the only person that sounds racist to...isnt amanda the one who said you can always find stats to go your way????..o okay...don't even know what to say to it..again...I TOLD MY SON SOME PEOPLE...NOT ALL WHITE PEOPLE...beginning to think people read what they want to read..you and i can agree to disagree..thats fine..

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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tah, i'm starting to think that you don't understand that i want the exact same thing as you do, i just feel i have a different way of achieving that than you do, and that we think things are happening for different reasons.

you think profiling is happening because we think all black people are going to steal something. why can't you see it as good business sense? and why can't i say this without sounding racist to you? it's the truth that black people are more likely to commit a crime, amanda's statistics prove it. i'm not saying this to be racist, i'm saying it because it's the truth. doesn't it make sense to watch the people that are more likely to steal? just as it's a fact that women (in general, no race involved) are more likely to be murdered by their husbands or boyfriend (no race involved). who do you think the police go to first in their investigation? the husband or boyfriend. why? is it because they prejudiced against all boyfriends, and husbands, NO, statistics prove that husbands and boyfriends are the ones who are most likely to be the perpetrator of the murder, that's why. at my work we check all $20, $50, $100 bills for counterfeit. why? because statistics prove that 20's, 50's and 100's are the bills that are most likely to be counterfeited. not the 5's or 1's. doesn't that make good sense to check those?

i do understand that if i were profiled it would upset me,just as i know it would upset you. but i also realize that it is necessary in every one of the incidences i just pointed out. it's not just a race thing, as hard as that may be for you to see.



you want equality, but how can you get it if you teach your child to watch out for some white people? how is that equal. how is it somehow acceptable for you to do, but if i were to tell my child to watch out for some black people i would be considered racist. it's not okay in either situation, and because you've been discriminated against doesn't give you the right to do it. everytime this question has been asked of you, you havn't answered it. all you've done is say that you've been discriminated against so that leads you to make decisions in your life, just as i've made decisions in my life. if your answer is that it's alright for you to be prejudiced, but it's not alright for me to do the exact same thing (cause it's not) than i guess i don't know what else to say. i don't understand at all how you can excuse that particular situation, and say it's alright because you're black and have been discriminated against. this statement of feelings is the whole entire reason i started that post, because i'm tired of being made to feel like i'm some kkk member because i feel that's wrong. that i don't have a grip on the realities of what it's like for a black person, and somehow that excuses racism back. why are we all acting like a bunch of 4 year olds in a hitting match saying well he started it first? why can't it stop? i know i've done my part to stop it, as good as i can. why can't you see that's all i want in return?

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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ganster disrespectful demeanor?......hmmm....so people with ganster..disrespectful demeanors blame christian white males and want restitution for it...im trying to get this right...some not all of course..right?...now...what exactly is a gangster attitude...is that like kiss my ring on the godfather...they depicted real life gangsters correct?...lol...trying to understand you here..because alot of misinterpretations happen on here....

Ramona - posted on 04/21/2010

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There are a lot of groups that experience discrimination, women, blacks, jews, muslims, homosexuals, mexicans.....and they have every right to be hurt by it and to stand up for their rights and their safety. What I think they DO NOT think anyone has a right to do is walk around acting as though ALL Christian white males owe them restitution for it. Not all white males are racist and sexist, they do not all deserve to pay for it. I think what people are referring to when they say black people need to "get over it" is the ones running around screaming about how white people have oppressed black people for centuries and they all are the same over indulgent, greedy assholes as the next one, not that you don't have every right to be hurt when someone intentionally discriminates against you. You most certainly do! Hopefully that makes sense and doesn't sound like I'm implying all minorities are the way I described certain ones to be. I think they are more talking about the people with the gangster, disrespectful demeanor.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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i started using statistics because they were requested and I realize that without them..some people won't understand..its almost like i can't say this happens to me often and it is upsetting without it being belittled by some and being told that it isn't as widespread as we want to make it seem. So wheni brought up a study about people with blakc sounding names not getting hired at the same rate of those with white sounding names..i was asked to show where i got it from...because thats not anything she had ever heard..so i did it...so i just wanted to show a few things....the last link is of an attack on a woman...studies have their place...i suppose

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Carolee..the study looked at what happened and who the crime was against..and other things...the link is still up if you want to have a look....i think it also looked at the racial slurs used by the prosecutors and that blacks were almost always given the death penalty for killing whites while whites almost never received it for killing blacks...or something to that affect...but yeah its still posted..

Carolee - posted on 04/21/2010

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Statistics bug the crap out of me. With regards to the murder sentence, what were the details of each murder? A lot is taken into consideration with sentencing because of forethought and maliciousness. How long did they plan the murders? What type of weapon did they use? How many times did they stab/shoot a person? Did they use multiple weapons and take their time commiting the murder? How violent was the crime? And when you said, "were"... how long ago was that, and where was that? Anybody can shoot statistics until they're blue in the face, but it doesn't really "prove" any point. Most people who actually take the statistics don't really care much about circumstances and other variables that happen in any/every situation. I'm not saying the statistics are "wrong", I'm just saying that it's not always a good thing to rely on them heavily when making up your mind about something.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@KATI..i was riding with you..and then i got to the end..the person who wrote the study said he worked hard, and nowhere in it was it said that the white man was in someones way..he gave an example at the end that he walks into a store at the same time as a black man and he is the one that gets followed..and how to some people when he goes to shop for a house or anything else..he may be perceived as less threatening....but i don't think he was saying that you aren't good enough, or that you stomped on a black person to get where u are..he said that in this world the way it is, you have a privilege..If you want it or not...you have it..amanda even agreed..even though she thinks it's wrong and has been trying to get this thread closed since it started....but like she said it's the way it is.....



BUT..IF it has made you think say for even a second..maybe she has a point..however small..then that is good for me..

Rosie - posted on 04/21/2010

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amanda, i really do get what you're trying to say with your study, but it's almost redundant to what i'm trying to point out. why do the crimes that black people commit against white people have to be because the people are white? why can't it be cause the person was a criminal-not that he was black and wanted to commit a crime against a white person. why can't a white person commit a crime against a black person, or treat them badly, because they're a criminal or an old hag, instead of a racist? why is race brought up every god damn time? that's another part of what i mean about ignoring this whole race thing. i obviously know that there are the statistics in there that we know the white person committed against the black person as a hate crime and vice versa-yes those should be pointed out.

but why oh why can't we just get over the races? alot of it is because people are teaching their kids that they are different from the other race, and that they should fear some of the other race, and now they are all to aware that they are different enough to be targeted for a hate crime.



as for the studies that tah posted. the 4th one really made me think a little bit about how you feel, but then it kindof upset me. so apparantly nothing i get is because i worked hard for it? i'm white so i've stomped on the black man to get where i am? i'm not good enough just the way i am because i'm white? black people can't get anywhere in this world because the white man is in their way? when does this cycle of thinking ever end?

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Sara..i want to thak you for realizing that it the way it is and that we may have a reason to be pissed..since some people think that it's not as widespread as it is and that we make a bigger deal than it is...in virginia they are having a issue now over the confederate flag....i think it was big of you to show up and support that. I had suggested that Kelly maybe volunteer with some of the inner center children or go talk to some of them and try to see their side or hear some of their views or experiences...i didnt's get a response to that..but since their are so many gangs maybe she could make a difference in that respect and gain better insight.....

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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@Kelly...i had to go to class so i couldnt really get into it...now...the studies were to show that black people were receving stiffer sentences for the same crimes that people of other races were committing.like if you and i both murder someone under similar curcumstances..you get 20 years. i get life..not who was committing more violent crimes..there is a difference.....



also i did answer your question..if you look back i did..AND I NEVER TOLD MY SON THAT ALL WHITE PEOPLE DO ANYTHING...since apparently people keep saying I did..I TOLD HIM THAT SOME PEOPLE MAY JUDGE HIM FOR HIS COLOR>>SOME PEOPLE WONT WANT HIM TO DATE THEIR DAUGHTERS......ETC...



I would never says that all white people do anything and i have also stated that they are not the only ones who discriminate...I even gave an example of a mixed neighbor who thought it horrible that someone was raped by a black person..but that was glossed over....You keep coming at me like i am the only one who said thing you were saying were questionable....go to the first page..

[deleted account]

"i have also had to deal with a different world than other people have, i know i know...so have you...and others..but that is how someone's view of the world is formed...one of the ways anyway..and not to tit for tat you..but you sound that way to me also..but i guess that is me pulling the ole race card" --Tah

Of course you deal with a different world than others, we ALL do, no one lives the exact same life as anyone else, but your world is not "different" just because you are black, it is different from other black people's worlds too, it is different from every other person on earth's world.

I don't see how I'm sounding like I'm grouping most black people together in a negative stereotype, please quote that. I've stated repeatedly that I DON'T do specifically that, and I've asked repeatedly if you think I should, since that is what you do with white people.

Amanda - posted on 04/21/2010

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yeah i think this discussion is going nowhere fast now... no one is going to admit they are wrong lol

and everyone can argue with "facts" and opinions all day, it's not gonna make a difference

[deleted account]

I don't believe in "getting over it" either. I teach my son about all different races--we are all different, but I teach him to embrace those differences as good qualities, not to expect people of certain races to act certain ways.
Our neighbors are cajun, they have totally different foods and traditions than we do, we have other neighbors from Nigeria (not them, but their grand parents), and I love learning their traditions--we often have long conversations comparing differences! We are different, we will always be different--I'm different from a lot of white or Native American people, but I love those parts of my self and I don't want them ignored. The black people I know are PROUD to be black, they wouldn't want me to ignore that beautiful part of them.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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maybe i do have a different view of the world than do..if that makes me racist in your eyes then i guess it does....i have also had to deal with a different world than other people have, i know i know...so have you...and others..but that is how someone's view of the world is formed...one of the ways anyway..and not to tit for tat you..but you sound that way to me also..but i guess that is me pulling the ole race card..

April - posted on 04/21/2010

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i don't agree with "getting over it". it doesn't make discrimination or racism go away. i think it does the opposite. it creates more racism, more discrimination.

i also think that there's a lot more racism out there than any study will show because some white people (and maybe those of other races too) lie to themselves. They don't want to think of themselves as racist.

Geralyn - posted on 04/21/2010

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LaCi, there are a lot of people who are fed up, and they fight for change. They do not blow up unsuspecting, innocent victims. They do not blow up children and babies. "Cold and heartless" are not the words that I would use - its an understatement. There are no words for someone who can kill innocent adults, children and babies because they are "fed up," as you say, at the federal government. I don't think its appropriate to bring McVeigh into this discussion. Bastard, for whom death was the easy way out.... I am trying to work through the posts to see why he was even brought up.

Tah - posted on 04/21/2010

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do you really think that every person who is committing the racism is gonna admit it...some people don't even think they are...of course the people that are discriminated against are going to tell it...while others say its not relevant or hey..im not a racist...at least one person on here knows she is and admitted it...while others say things and don't even realize they are....yes alot can happen in 1-20 years..but apparently not enough..if you look at the other links i posted...

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