Bratz Dolls and inappropriate clothing

Charlie - posted on 03/01/2010

Then you took it the wrong way .



Sara i could not agree more with you !!

Good Day! - posted on 02/28/2010

Lyndsay, if you read what I said carefully, I never said anything about sheltering my daughter. I understand that she will see many things on tv and in the world and it is my job to teach her what is right and what is wrong. And one way to teach her is to not let her play with a doll (in our home) that dresses in a way that I won't allow her to dress.

What will I do if she recieves one as a gift? I don't know. Probably sit down and have a discussion about it. I like what Catherine did in a previous post. She allowed her daughter to decide, after an informed discussion. That in itself is powerful to a child. I'm sure her daughter learned more than if they doll had been thrown out without discussion.

It's not about "sheltering" from the world. It's about teaching her to live morally and honorably in this world.

Catherine - posted on 02/28/2010

I read the entire post, and that's what I took from it. Sigh.

Charlie - posted on 02/28/2010

Ah no one said the dolls were stimulating , perhaps if you read the entire post you would have seen it was more about the sexualistaion of children through commercialism being just one of many factors in the enticement not the entire reason .



*sigh*

Catherine - posted on 02/28/2010

I have to say something about the person who commented that items such as Bratz dolls may be stimulating to paedophiles; paedophiles are stimulated by children, not by dolls. Children in any state whatsoever, be it fully clothed or not, be it wearing makeup at Hallowe'en or a Princess Jasmine midriff- bearing costume at the mall. A friend of mine was allowing her little girls to run around naked in their backyard one particularly hot summer, and her mother commented that she shouldn't do that because it would 'give perverts ideas'. And my reply was 'Perverts already have ideas - that's what makes them perverts'. I'd have to say the same regarding trashy little dolls.

Lyndsay - posted on 02/28/2010

I really don't care about the Bratz dolls or their clothes. I have a little boy, so I guess that may be why, but even if I had a girl I don't think I would really care. I mean, it's just a doll. When I was a kid my Barbies used to have skanky little outfits too. No offense, I think it's stupid to try to shelter your kids by not allowing them to own the dolls or watch the movies (when all of their friends probably are). I think it's much better to take the time to teach your daughter that it is not an appropriate way to dress, because she's going to see it somewhere sometime anyway. Might as well let her enjoy the toy.

Good Day! - posted on 02/25/2010

Because my daughter was crawling into my lap begging me to read a book as I was typing I forgot that I wanted to add....

Even though we are bombarded by advertising images, we as parents do have a responsibility to teach our children what is important. That point has been made over and over. And we can't live under a rock. I just chose not to have something in my house that sends negative images to my daughter. That's me. She will see negative things in our world and I will teach her appropriatly.You chose to have that in your house while teaching her the appropriate way to live. That's fine. But that is not how I want to do it.

Catherine - posted on 02/25/2010

My daughter was seven when she started noticing the Bratz 'situation', and I sat her down and explained that, like Barbie, women and girls don't really look like this, and there is much more to a human being than what they look like or how they dress. I told her I wouldn't buy them because I didn't want to support that sort of attitude, and steered her more towards the 'Only Hearts Club' dolls, which are beautiful and look like real girls. Later, a friend gave her a Bratz doll for her birthday, and I made very little comment, hoping she would decide for herself, and she did, putting it up on a shelf where she admired it for a short time before donating it to charity.
It's what we do and teach that matters, not what the rest of the world tells them.

Good Day! - posted on 02/25/2010

Shelby, your daughter does seem to be a very well-rounded little girl. And I admit that not everyone will be affected in a negative way by the dolls. But your example about the Marlboro man: I'm sure he wasn't the primary reason most people started smoking, but he certainly didn't help the situation. Now that cigarette ads are banned on TV and companies aren't allowed to target minors with their advertising, the percentage of smokers has decreased. Public awarness of the danger make a big impact as well. And public awarness was done through advertising...the images we see. Advertising is a big influence on us, whether we like it or not. And I veiw these dolls as selling sexuality. That is how I feel. Its not like I'm going to ban my daughter from playing with them...at a friend's house. But she will never own one. What's the point? There are so many other dolls and toys out there that don't look like hookers.

Shelby - posted on 02/25/2010

In all honesty The thread itself is conflicting...Bratz dolls one concern for some parents, and Inappropriate clothing for children another issue all together. To group the two together makes it harder to discern the fact that while I see absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that my daughter plays with these dolls along with several other toys...I do not allow age inappropriate clothing for her.

While I was growing up, although there wasn't as MUCH sex plastered everywhere, We had the sexy Marlboro man on his horse...And while those photos were everywhere, and the Camel, and the glamorous women from Virgina Slims...Not everyone I knew smoked. Either because they weren't permitted the chance, or they just chose not to. Those of us that DID choose to smoke did so for other reasons, Peer pressure is a biggie. Everyone I hung out with was much older. And another...opportunity. My smokes were always in my bedroom. My kids would be caught...

My daughter is not locked in her room wearing fishnets, stilettos and Madonna's old cone bra, surrounded by naked photos everywhere with a porn playing in here DVD player while she is forced to play with Bratz dolls all day.

On the contrary, She DOES ride her bike quite often, plays outside all the time, She also plays with the magnetic version of the paper doll,Polly Pockets, and dollhouses and is constantly drawing, or painting, However...Spends MOST of her time with the family dog, and cat, and her rabbit. The only contact she has with boys is the poster of the Jonas Brothers on her wall...and the fact that she "thinks" she is on "Team Jacob"...And not because he is sexier...or "hot" but her reasoning is..."Well, Mom, Edward left Becca, Jacob would never do that." She played with plenty of Cabbage Patch Dolls when she was interested in them, and My Little Pony...Things change as they get older, and in a few years she won't be interested in Bratz either...or the new Moxie girls...It'll be something different. At any stage however, its all about teaching them how to make the right decision.

And the funny thing is that during sleepovers, When all the girls are here, They all play "house" or "Big World" whatever you want to call it...And the Bratz are not portrayed by the girls in any negative way...The Bratz "go" to college, are mommies (thanks to Bratz kids, and babies) Courtney's Bratz always the same thing...a Pediatrical (Pediatric...She just has trouble saying that) Nurse.

Charlie - posted on 02/24/2010

Shelby i am sorry for what you have been through and i have never once said it was ever the child's fault in that situation , it never is , it is entirely and always the perpetrators fault , they are weak and cowardly BUT there are factors that make a child more attractive to these deviants purely through there own thoughts , it is there weakness but in my opinion i wouldn't add fuel to a fire or place extra risk , that is my personal opinion on how i would deal with my own child , I too have been in a similar situation not by a pedophile but as a victim of rape .



I do honestly believe you can reduce risk and i have never or will ever place blame on a victim , i would love to live in an idealistic world where we didn't have to worry but just isn't reality , there are several motivations for this crime and yes most are unavoidable but there are steps we can take to protect our kids .



I agree its what we teach them but i also know environment and the things we allow them to surround themselves with play an important part in learning .



Anyhoo this debate has taken a mighty twist , back to my initial argument that there is really nothing positive about the early adultification of children so why do it ? That is what i am still unsure of and what no one has seemingly been able to explain .



Let kids be kids , ride their bikes , climb a tree , play with a cabbage patch doll ect ect ect .

Shelby - posted on 02/24/2010

Well for debate purposes I HIGHLY resent the implication that any kind of influence on a pedophile can either encourage or discourage a pedophile. As a survivor that kind of attitude can really hurt the entire healing process. It all starts with trying to realize that its not your fault, that it is not something that you did. So no, You can't reduce the risk in that kind of way. I know its a debate, and we are all entitled to our opinion but you are wrong there. It has absolutely nothing to do with absolutely anything other than the sicko. Any other implication means that the perv wasn't at fault, and that is unacceptable. A generalized statement like that was very insensitive. Like I said before I think our children have a lot to learn, and its about what kind of people we teach them to be.

Charlie - posted on 02/24/2010

Look its debate we are all entitled to our opinions including you , debate wouldnt be any good if everyone agreed .

No it shouldnt send a message to sickos in a perfect world but it does we cant change their way of thinking but we can reduce the risk .

This isnt a personal attack on your child i am merely debating the topic as is done in this community debating .

Shelby - posted on 02/24/2010

"There is also a concern that we are sending very conflicting messages to people. On the one hand, we’re telling people that children need to be protected – that paedophilia is regarded as one of the most heinous crimes – on the other hand we allow advertisers and marketers of dolls such as bratz to present images and saturate our media with images that might be sexually arousing to some paedophiles in the community. "

And you honestly think that because of what the media shows is why children are attacked? You know what scratch that... My reputation is bad enough on here, because I never follow the "popular opinion" so I'll ask... What do these messages say to the pedophiles? Will our children be safer if these messages aren't portrayed? If my child wears a miniskirt is that also sending a message to a pedophile? I just don't understand that paragraph at all.

You know its all fine and well for everyone to have their own opinions on what is right and what is wrong, but what makes you say for sure that you know that my daughter playing with a doll means automatically that in her head...EVEN THOUGH...She is actually acting perfectly healthy and normal...She's just planning her first sexual tryst and thats all thats on her mind right now. That, shes thinking about sex...About being sexual. because of her doll. It has nothing to do with what she has been taught. Its all the media. and the toys.

Kristal - posted on 02/24/2010

HATE THE BRATZ and last time i check it was never a good thing to be called on lol.....and it is sad that girls who are 4 are already expected to even be dressed in a bra....i usually do my shopping at jcpenny or target....i like the selection they have and i dont have to always say "no" to everything my DD wants to buy

Charlie - posted on 02/24/2010

*sigh* exactly Jenny !!!

Im not sure why you are so upset about this debate Lesley , thats what we are all saying it is up to us to show our child what is appropriate and what is not , i personally do not think those dolls are appropriate so i wouldnt have them in my house just as i wouldnt let my child watch certain TV shows and music that depict overtly sexual children and young teens .



I just think if my child asked to buy them fishnet stockings and a tiny skirt and i said no based on my parenting ethics and their age appropriateness and then said it would be ok for her to have a doll that dressed in the same manner it would send mixed messages to a young and impressionable mind .



We as parents are responsible for how we teach our child keeping in mind that we are not their only teachers , children also learn from their environment including the products we deem acceptable for them

Not to mention the millions of toys available that are appropriate .



Why is it that we are so adamant that WE pick their clothes yet we let them run free with whatever toy they like .



children are being forced more and more into an adult world at an earlier age , If the message is that you should be sexy and grown up, instead of being a kid – then kids aren’t practicing and learning how to be whole human beings that will actually make them into great adults. They are instead only imitating adult behavior, without understanding it – and that’s very dangerous for their development.



Childhood is shrinking. We are exposing children to adult concepts that they can’t manage, that are developmentally inappropriate, and I think we are going to pay the cost for this in a range of emotional and psychological costs down the track



There is also a concern that we are sending very conflicting messages to people. On the one hand, we’re telling people that children need to be protected – that paedophilia is regarded as one of the most heinous crimes – on the other hand we allow advertisers and marketers of dolls such as bratz to present images and saturate our media with images that might be sexually arousing to some paedophiles in the community.



It is folly for us to pretend that the trend towards sexualisation of childrens fashion and advertising is harmless. It is part of a cynical but savage fight for our spending dollar, and the earlier children are pressed into thinking sexually, the earlier they will act sexually , and you the consumer have been bought by sex .

Shelby - posted on 02/24/2010

Why does everyone seem to think that the children are stupid??? Just because my daughter IS of that age, and DOES play with Bratz dolls, that shes just too incompetent to hear what she has been told and comprehend the difference between THIS is a baby doll and THIS is real life.... My daughter has played with Bratz for as long as she has been able to hold a doll, and she refuses to wear any shorts other than Bermudas!!!! She doesn't wear any skirts that doesn't have shorts or leggings underneath. She always has at least two shirts on, The child still CHOOSES to wear a camisole under ALL her shirts as an undershirt... My god people. Children are not stupid. They are actually pretty capable of comprehending some basic things. You know, My daughter plays with dolls who wear make-up and they look like clowns, they also have feet that come off...Yeah, they look real. I mean do you all seriously plan on not paying attention to how your daughters walk out of the house? I don't know I'm seriously not getting something here. Who buys your girls' clothes? In this house Mommy and Daddy take the kids shopping... They don't bring anything home unless we approve of it. Even when she is 16, 17...She'll still be living here, and its still really up to us. But, besides that fact, I'm pretty comfortable with the fact that shes got a good head on her shoulders. She watches Superman and Spiderman too, and has never jumped off a building thinking she can fly. She is fully aware of what is expected out of a young lady. She sits with her legs crossed, Thanks to watching me, even drinks with her pinky up....Shes not a little ho bag, She plays with baby dolls. The funny thing is, They are not made from Crack. They outgrow these things. I mean yeah I'm on here clearly defending her right to play with them and yet just today I noticed that she really doesn't have a thing to do with them anymore, Shes moved on to Moxie Girls, but names aside..Same thing, she just gets to decorate these. Bottom line is, You raise your kids right, and you can surround them with whatever, Its who they are inside that matters. I mean I personally don't want my daughter dressing like a hooker either. But when shes 19-20 years old, in college wants to get a little risque, and creative with her clothes, I just hope that she doesn't run in to too many people that have the same views of a lot that I've seen on here. From what I see, it really doesn't matter about anything other than what you can see. Its all about if you look like that then your trash....Like I said before...Lesser of two evils. She'll either learn to be herself, or she'll learn to be as judgmental as I've seen on here, Personally I don't like to judge people based on what they look like.

Jenny - posted on 02/24/2010

You're right Lesley and it is important that parents surround there children with appropriate images so they know what it means.

Lesley - posted on 02/24/2010

I have already said this time and time again it is up to the parent to show their child what is appropriate and what is not and to teach them such.....what part of that is so hard to understand?????? UP TO THE PARENT TO TEACH THEIR CHILD AND SHOW THEM THE RIGHT PATH !!!!!!!!!!!

Charlie - posted on 02/24/2010

Its the constant bombardment of " sex culture " that many parents say " oh it wont hurt , its ok " all these little things build up to and eventually desensitize children against the blatant selling of sex once upon a time a short skirt was just above the knee know that seems prudish and nothing less than a belt is considered the norm , many teens no longer consider head jobs sex , not to mention the 1000's of kids sexting and sending out semi naked photos into internet land because " its cool " .
Its not just about the dolls , its about the over sexualization of children today and the effects it will have on them as adults , kids these days face a lot more then we did and have a very different future depending on how we raise them and what we as parents consider acceptable for them as children .

Lesley - posted on 02/24/2010

as I have already stated it is up to the parent to show their child what is appropriate and what is not and to teach them such.....allowing her to play with the dolls and watch the shows is me allowing her to enjoy her childhood nothing more nothing less.....since when did a damn doll have so much power and control.....it's bs......

Good Day! - posted on 02/24/2010

Yes, at four you pick out your daughter's clothes. But what about 10, 13, 16? Do you want her to emulate a bratz doll? Not saying just because a kid plays with bratz that they will dress like them when they are older. But it is a parent's job to teach her children the appropriate way to act, talk and dress. And allowing them to play with "cool" dolls and watch the show are putting images into girls heads about how they want to be when they have the ability to chose what they do and wear. Yes, you can let them play with the dolls and still teach them how to dress appropriatly. But I think that unless you are very careful you could be sending your children mixed messages. It's not like I won't let my daughter see a bratz doll or play with them at a friend's house, but they will not be in my house because I want her to know that the way they dress is not acceptable.

Charlie - posted on 02/24/2010

Ok then let me be more specific , street walkers not high class hookers , you generally dont see them walking the street they do dress up more but we are talking the trashiest of trash .

Lesley - posted on 02/23/2010

you don't allow your daughter to play with a doll because of the amount of make-uo a doll wears and because of the clothes it wears???hahaha......my daughter will be 4 in May and we pick her clothes out for her......at that age it's what parents do....I can't believe the number of parents who are so against certain toys give me a break it's a toy.......

Terri - posted on 02/23/2010

My daughter is 4 and she does model her way of dressing on the dolls she plays with and the movies she watches. Hence she loves girly gowns and pretty dresses. Which is why I dont let her have Bratz because of the way they have so much make up, the inapproriate dressware and the obession with being popular.

My daughter loves the Barbie movies too and I have watched them and deem them appropriate because they are all about being the best you can be as a person and not focussed on being beautiful.

Lesley - posted on 02/22/2010

the Bratz dolls are ugly.....but my daughter loves them....she loves all dolls no matter what they look like........

Holly - posted on 02/21/2010

Okay, I just finished reading all the other posts on here (I wanted to get my initial reactions to the question out first). I have a few things that I thought I'd chime in on:



1.I was not a big fan of Barbie when I was a kid. I just wasn't that into dolls or girly things. When my brother, sister and I would play I was always wanting to be the "cool" characters, like Michelangelo instead of April (in Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles), or Zack instead of Trini (in Power Rangers), or Batman instead of Batgirl. Stuff like that. I did not appreciate Barbie until I was older and my sister and I used to cut her hair and make her clothing (we made some very pretty dresses!). After that stage, I thought it was disgusting how Barbie glorified the idea of the "perfect body" to little girls. I was horrified (and a little amused) when I heard that they had to widen the ankles, hips and neck, and cut the boobs in half on the life size Barbie to make it so she wouldn't fall over (they had originally made her proportional to the doll, but ran into these situations...). Then I met my hubby and his daughter (who was 3 at the time). I saw that she didn't care about what Barbie looked like, she just thought it was fun to play with her. Now, we have all the Barbie movies (my 2 year-old loves them!) and we have a few dolls (not that many though - the toy boxes are full of other toys!). My oldest (now 7) used to have an account on barbiegirls.com where girls can make their own Barbie Girl avatars and play around. It's basically a social networking site for little girls where they can chat with other girls from all around the world and play fun games for "B-Bucks" to buy cool things for their virtual Barbie Girl's room. We actually had to deactivate her account, though because Mattel wasn't doing enough in terms of monitoring what was being said or going on, so we had to say bye bye. Now, our daughter is on pixiehollow.com where she can make her own Fairies and live in Tinkerbell's world of Pixie Hollow! It's super fun and monitored in real time (meaning everything that is said has to go through moderators before it will post on the site). My kids still like Barbie, and now I do too. She's not about being sexy or anything, she's about being “who you want to be!” (which is actually the new theme of the Barbie line).



2.Ha ha! Little boys (and girls!) and their toy guns! My mom swore up and down when she had my little brother that he would not have toy guns AT ALL. So what was a little boy to do? He stole our Barbies, took off their heads, and bent them at the waist (making them go at a right angle). He would then point them at us, yell “BANG!” and throw the head at us. If we got hit with the head, we were “shot.” :D After that, my mom gave up and got him some toy guns (and not ones that looked like real guns). My feeling on it is that boys will be boys (or girls will be girls if the girls want to play with toy guns!). :D



3.Shelby – I think it's GREAT that you are sticking to your guns on this! I am sure your daughter is a wonderful little girl who knows exactly who she is and doesn't need a doll to lead her. That's wonderful! I was just saying that in my situation, the doll is over glorified (by my daughter's birth mother) and made to almost idol-like, so I do not like it. I really hope you did not take my post as me saying your daughter is a “tramp” because I in no way meant that. I was just saying that not all kids who are exposed to these dolls (and movies) are taught the difference between reality and toys. It's really hard when I have no say in what my daughter's birth mother says or does during her visitations, so all I can do is make sure my daughter knows the difference and get the bad ideals that her birth mother teaches her out of her head when she comes home. I also think it's wonderful that your daughter takes pride in how she looks and I know my daughter does too, but I do not think that young kids (my daughter is 7 years old, and still fairly young in my opinion) need to carry a mirror around with them at all times so they can check their appearance. I can see where your daughter would want to, and if my daughter wants to when she's 11 years old I will let her if that's what she wants. I was just saying that the Bratz movies over glorify growing up way too fast to their audience (and their audience is little girls from around 5 to 12ish). I just think that the makers could have a little more consideration for the younger viewers and tone it down a bit. :)

Shelby - posted on 02/21/2010

I'm going to stick to my guns here and say that I am perfectly fine with the way my daughter is turning out...even though she plays with these types of dolls all the time. I still say it is how the parents raise the children NOT the toys. I don't have a problem that my daughter wants to look her best all the time either. She doesn't like to have a hair out of place...and constantly carries her mirror, Yet she is neither conceited nor obnoxious about it. She simply takes pride in how she looks...What is wrong with that? I mean I see parents throwing out words that I really really REALLY don't want my daughter using to describe other people..So personally I don't know whether it is worse for my daughter to play with "sluts" or be so damned judgmental...I mean God, I really feel like in this day and age I have to try and pick the lesser of two evils. Unfortunately,I feel like I'm gonna have to teach my little tramp this (haha, said with so much love) That those that Matter don't mind, and those that Mind...Well, they really don't matter.

Holly - posted on 02/21/2010

I HATE these dolls and the movies (and I do not hate much...). They are way to self-absorbed and all about fashion and makeup. Not to mention the fact that they are always talking about their boyfriends and life just seems so easy for them! They get to be famous and travel the country, they ALWAYS look perfect and if one hair *might* be out of place they just HAVE to flip a mirror out of their purse and fix it - not to mention the mulitple times they are shown checking their makeup and appearance in mirrors all through the movies. I feel the clothing they wear is innappropriate and it is stuff I would NEVER itroduce to my daughters.



Unfortunately, my oldest daughter's biological mother thinks they are great and is always giving our daughter the movies and such. I have gotten most of them out of my house without our daughter noticing, but the ideas are still there. Now our daughter (who is 7) wants to wear those clothes and thinks she NEEDS to be "popular" at school. I hate it, but it's something we just have to deal with as of right now... Ugh...



My hubby and I know that our daughter is very big on role models. Her biological mother abandoned her when she was 3 and I came into her life almost a year later. Fortunately, she has chosen me as her main role model, but every time her birth mother says something is cool, our daughter just HAS to appease her birth mother and think it's cool too. She is huge on being like what she thinks her birth mother would want her to be like (which is NOT what we want for her in her life - long story), but fortunately, she only gets like that right after the infrequent visitations. It only takes a couple days to "drum" those thoughts of wanting to grow up WAY too quick out of her head and make her the happy, age appropriate girl she normally is.



As it stands, I discreatly get the movies out of my house and remember that my hubby and I have our oldest 90% of the time, so at least our daughter isn't subjected to that shallow slutty crap all the time...

Sharon - posted on 02/21/2010

Damn. Guns are up for debate too? My kids all have their own guns.

Jodi - posted on 02/21/2010

Fair enough, 'cause I was thinking the same thing. I'll be honest, tha main reason my daughter doesn't have Bratz dolls is because I hate them. I just think they are plain ugly. No-one I know likes them. Result is my daughter doesn't have them, and I'm glad about that.



As to Glenda's comment about Barbie being a stereotype, well, my daughter has a variety of Barbies, and they are not all blonde and white!!



In all honesty, her dolls spend so much time naked, it wouldn't really matter what clothes they wore, but she likes the lovely long princess dresses for her Barbie. We even have her brother's old Action Man as Barbie's boyfriend. But I'm not allowed to call him Action Man - he is a Boy Barbie. They kiss and cuddle and hold hands.......

Lesley - posted on 02/21/2010

he's never asked for a toy gun.....but if he ever did....why not?? it's just a TOY....not real.....I would never deny my son or my daughter anything that they wanted.....why sheild them and protect them from toys when there are way worse things out there these days??

Jodi - posted on 02/20/2010

So, Lesley, I assume you would let your little boys play with toy guns too? Don't get me wrong, I do (we couldn't get through summer without the water pistols), but I am just guessing you do :)

Lesley - posted on 02/20/2010

wow....this is still going on? I can't believe people are going on about a doll like this......saying they look like hookers and crap....people they are just DOLLS.....lol.....seriously in my opinion I think some are going a bit overboard by refusing their daughters to play with dolls like these.....what exactly are you trying to protect them from??? a doll??? lol.....the child is not going to take fashion tips from a doll.....it is up to you the parent to teach your daughter these things.....and I'm pretty sure that even a child can see for themselves what is real and what is just a molded piece of plastic.....a doll......lol...

Glenda - posted on 02/20/2010

Loureen...would that be Kings Cross Sydney or Kings Cross London ? If referring to Kings Cross Sydney, you must be talking about only the 'Bratz' looking "hookers", even "hookers" have evolved a little you know and dress to impress, business suits, designer shoes etc.....I was wondering though with all this going back and forwards how would you propose a doll should dress ? Who in society represents a perfect image for girls ? women ?

Glenda - posted on 02/20/2010

Hi re "people" who dress "that way".......& these people have bad reputations. I'm not sure about where you live, I now live in central Victoria, Australia, I was on the Nth Coast of the State of NSW, where dressing like that was very common & not because of any such reputation, because it was a culturally diverse coastal community which embraced all people from all different walks of life. Oh yes there are people with what you would refer to as having a 'bad' reputation, however I've also gone to Court with middle class self-righteous parents who dress to impress & wouldn't have a clue about the safety and rights of their child. I really refute the whole belief system that the way a person dresses is an indication of their personality or heaven forbid a reputation - what is that anyway ?
I have many artistic, creative and talented friends, extremely successful and educated. During the week they dress accordingly to the profession they work for those who work for particular organisations (others don't need to) and on their own time they are totally themselves, you would never guess what they do for a living by being so narrow minded as to judge them by their appearance - I love it.
What pressure is being placed on children, remembering these are children, not adults, by instilling in them that a person who dresses one way has a bad reputation and a person who covers themselves up is what ? A good person ? this is the best laugh I have had in long time, next you'll be telling me that you can tell a pedophile or a child abuser by the way they dress ?

Charlene - posted on 02/20/2010

My daughter is only 6 months old, so hopefully a long way from this dilemma.



If Bratz dolls were still around, I don't know if I would want my daughter to play with them. My cousin had Bratz dolls and Barbies and she just saw them as dolls to play with, dress up and do their hair at first, but as she got older and started getting more curious about girly things, she used to ask me to do her make-up like the Bratz dolls and ask her mom for the same clothes as them. My aunt never took the dolls away, but explained that the way the girls dressed and wore their make-up was not appropriate unless she was a doll. And you know what? My cousin said okay and forgot about it after a while.



I think Barbies are different though. You can get so many different races (white, black, hispanic, asian etc.), different 'personalities', different wardrobes etc. If you don't like a certain one, you can always go with a different one and personally, I don't think a young girl will have body issues unless someone makes a big deal about how Barbie is 'supposed to be the perfect body'. She doesn't wear too much make-up, you can pick outfits that you think are appropriate etc.



As for the bra for a four year old, my sister asked for a 'bra and boobies' for her fourth birthday! Haha. She didn't think anything of it, she just wanted them because our mom had them, so I don't really see what's wrong with a training bra for a little girl that just wants to be like mommy.

Shelby - posted on 02/20/2010

"I agree that we shouldn't be sheilding our children from this, but I don't want to glorify it with a "cool" doll either. That being said, your daughter does sound very well rounded (from what I know from your post) therefore, you are teaching her well."

I don't believe in anyway that I am glorifying it...If I were she would be striving to be just like them. I just don't make an issue out of anything where there isn't one to be made. I don't preach to her about women who look like clowns when they wear too much make-up just because she buys make-up because she doesn't do it. I just raise my kids differently and surprise surprise, my way seems to work too. You know there is no cut/clear way to raise kids. We all do it differently. My boys play video games. They love shooting at/ blowing up aliens!!! Personally I don't see a problem with it. And hes almost 7. Again, I don't make an issue out of it. But, the minute that him running through downtown with a ray gun splattering alien guts all over the monuments becomes a problem I'll pull them from him. I just think things get taken a little too far. I feel in my house as long as I stay on top of things then it is fine. I can guarantee you that if my daughter decides to dress like a hooker its going to have a LOT more to do with friends at school than toys she played with as a child. And, I'll watch out for that too.

I don't think it has as much to do with the toys they play with as much as adult supervision. My brother was as strict as some of you all with his girls. I didn't know that, and bought my niece a Bratz doll for Christmas one year...One of the little soccer playing ones, because she was a huge sports nut, and LOVED playing with my daughter's dolls when she was at my house. Well he went ballistic in front of the entire family. Threw the doll in the trash and went off on me, Pretty much taking the sanctimonious high road on how his daughters wouldn't grow up like that and blah blah blah... Well his daughter is 9 months older than mine. Well, now...She wears her jeans with her thongs out, shirts where her boobs are showing (and she is very well developed), hangs all over boys, Got a hold of my daughter's cell and was sexting some boy...All this happened in a matter of a few months while her parents are going through a separation. And her 15 year old sister...Not a whole lot better. And she never played with Bratz either. So I don't plan on jumping on the bandwagon anytime soon to demonize a toy company... If the parents aren't there, Then bad things will happen. If the parents are there. Then the parents are there.

Sharon - posted on 02/20/2010

1. Bratz dolls are obsolete. Judge ruled a copy right infringement against the designer of Bratz dolls back in 2008. I believe there is already a replacement doll out there with a different name. The designer was working for Mattel when he came up with the Bratz concept and mattel nixed it.

2. regardless - I despise them. The name alone conjures up snot nosed kids who don't care a fig for anyone else and that disturbs me.
2a. Their overly sexualized clothing. INAPPROPRIATE for children.

Sexy clothing for kids, hip hugger, low slung, whatever they want to call those jeans - WRONG. A 4 yr old has no reason to show off her belly unless she is comparing belly buttons with her friend.

Short shorts, things that would make Daisy duke blush - WRONG especially with the words "sexy" across the ass. WTF?

Other things brought up in previous comments...

Barbie - I loved Barbie growing up. She was glamorous, chic and had studly androgynous boyfriend PERFECT. I don't recall Barbie being particularly sexy when I was growing up and I don't recall aiming for the Barbie look. Seriously? Do you think kids WANT to play with the Hunchback of Notre Dame doll line?

That said - I want to encourage a more positive route for my daughter & sons.

My two boys adore Halo toys (not allowed to play the game) my oldest is very techy and the younger boy is soooooo ARMY GUNG HO. He CRIED when he was 2 1/2? 3? when he saw a REAL LIVE ARMY GUY at walmart. Its a mystery to me where the fascination with Army came from. We are a military family but its not evident in our home, by the time he was born I'd been out of the service for a decade.

I grew up firmly in the "girly" role. wore dresses and pumps to school, highschool, because thats what good girls were supposed to do. And yet I joined the Marines.. hmmm.... Why? Because I was brought up knowing I was a girl, a woman, but I could do any goddamned thing I wanted to.

Shelby - posted on 02/20/2010

So, Honest question...What are your daughters into at 11,12 and 13 years old?

Charlie - posted on 02/19/2010

Sara you bring up a good point , the mere fact they are called bratz is another reason i wouldnt encourage them , we all know what a brat is , in fact most kids know what a brat is as for the dolls not portraying a specific person , they dont but geez they look exactly like the hookers in kings cross hence why most parenst say " they look like prostitutes "

Good Day! - posted on 02/19/2010

Shelby (and Glenda, but this is mostly geared to Shelby's post) I agree that parents are responsible for teaching their children, not toys and tv. I was an elementary school teacher, so believe me, I know the value of parents teaching their children.

But in your response, you imply that people really don't dress the way the dolls do by saying they are fiction. They may not be meant to portray a specific person, but there are people who dress that way and they don't have good reputations. And they act like "brats" to boot. Not saying that everyone who dresses that way is a bad person. But the majority of the people who dress like that are not who I want my daughter to be around.

I agree that we shouldn't be sheilding our children from this, but I don't want to glorify it with a "cool" doll either. That being said, your daughter does sound very well rounded (from what I know from your post) therefore, you are teaching her well.

Glenda - posted on 02/19/2010

Shelby...love your response...here here !! I'm not sure who said it...there is a quote somewhere about the first true educators of children are their parents.

Glenda - posted on 02/19/2010

Hi Sara, I enjoy reading fair and honest replies to debates, we have similiar values in wanting what is in the best interest of our children. My life experiences, as do all our own, alter our perceptions, values, beliefs and attitudes towards a multitude of things everyday. I can only hope my experiences support me to become a better human being, a better parent and more understanding. I so agree about stereotyping in the world, it is difficult to find a balance between protecting your own children from reality and attempting to challenge it at the same time, often it is hard to do both. When we were travelling it was a real eye opener for my children, sometimes meeting families who have lived on the road their whole lives. What I thought would be the situation for the children, I found was totally wrong. They were so resilient and had such a good understanding of people, were adaptable and confident, extremely intelligent (years of home-schooling on the road) - so for me this was so refreshing as it challenged all my previous held beliefs and any doubts I had about taking my own children out of school etc for a while. I love these debates, not only for sharing my own ideas, I like even more when I learn and change my views when someone else sheds a different light......thank you for your response.

Shelby - posted on 02/19/2010

Wow,I'm gonna be the bad guy here... My daughter has a whole bag full of Bratz, and Moxie dolls. I mean really people, they are dolls. My daughter is 11, she knows these are dolls, she does not see people dressing this way when we go to town, She doesn't dress this way. Its a doll. She thinks they are cool looking. I don't understand. I guess I'm just a horrible mother. Instead of shielding my children from all the horrible influences around, I choose to teach them instead that there is fiction and reality. They watch movies, and they know it is fiction. They play with dolls, and they know they are just that...dolls. Just because I choose to let my daughter play with freaking baby dolls doesn't mean she is going to have lower self esteem. Actually quite the opposite. My daughter is actually very well rounded. She cheers, and plays soccer. She has a ton of friends. Dresses very modestly, Is very respectful, and a ton of help around the house. She does great in school...So honestly where is the problem. Why is it that we as parents leave it up to toys and movies to "teach" our children? These things are strictly entertainment, and it is up to us to teach them that. I mean thats just my opinion and its worked just fine for us.

Good Day! - posted on 02/18/2010

Glenda, I know you probably have heard this a million times and it does not make it easier, but I'm sorry for your losses. I'm sure that has made a tremendous impact on the way you live your life and the choices you make for your family. You seem like a strong woman and a wonderful mother.

About my daughter's clothing choices, I want her to be modest because, unfortunatly, the world does stereotype. It's not about her, it's about the world in which we live. I don't make choices soley based on fashion. I am very practical about her clothing. She wears mostly hand-me-downs and clothes bought second-hand. But the styles I choose for her (I choose because she is only 21 months) are modest because that is a value I wish to instill in her. Again, not because I have an issue with inmodest clothes, but other people tend to stereotype. First impressions are important and based on sight. And inmodest clothes can distract people from a person's intellegence and goodness.

And as a side note, I'm with you on the sun exposure thing. My whole family is very fair skinned and we burn easily. I've also had family members affected by skin cancer. Sun block is always in the diaper bag.

And I also agree with you that raising kids to be happy, healthy adults should be priority when parenting.

Michelle - posted on 02/18/2010

I am not really fond of the Bratz dolls either. I think they look strange, and my oldest daughter isn't really interested in them anyway. My oldest daughter is 11 and I find it extremely difficult to buy clothes for her that are age appropriate. She is as tall as me (I am 5'9 or 175cms tall), her feet are bigger than mine. She either has to wear teenagers clothes or small ladies clothes. And trying to find clothes that aren't cut short, or have tears in them in interesting places, or that make her look heaps older than what she is, is a challenge to say the least. I hate the shirts that kids wear with crude or horrible sayings. To me they aren't funny just rude, inappropriate and silly. I just think that parents need to be sensible when dressing their kids. And when kids are teenagers they like to find their own style.....something for me to look forward to!!

Glenda - posted on 02/18/2010

Hi Sara, My daughter does wear short skirts, with tights/leggings underneath and she has never wanted to wear any low cut tops or the like. We are very strict about sun exposure and the risk of skin cancer due to our own experiences and even at the beach my children wear the rash shirts and rarely have they ever worn tops which do not cover their shoulders, purely for health/safety purposes, which is far more important to me than what look or stereotype they may portray. This has been a interesting conversation/debate and it really comes down to what values we hold important as parents and those we feel most important for our children. As for "fortunate" to travel. My son had died of cancer, my sister and a friend in a 12 month period. My husband had been very ill and we made a drastic choice to pack up our materialistic life and travel with our children. Fortunate is probably not how I would describe it. I do place the best interests of my children above all else, including their emotional and psychological wellbeing, as this now recognised as critical to healthy development and potential. Emotional intelligence regarded as a greater indicator of success (personal goal achievement not necessarily monetary) than cognitive intelligence. This is what I value.

Glenda - posted on 02/18/2010

Kate, I agree with the name, could have been more appropriate - that in itself could be another debate altogether, given the range of inappropriate labelling out there. Its great that we all have clear values about how we would like to raise our children and that each of us are different, how boring the world would be if we were all the same?
The marketing appeals to different people and children for different reasons, I actually didn't see the dolls as "cool" my children are not attracted to friends or their personal interest due to any "cool" factor. I encourage them to have a healthy self esteem, respect themselves and take responsibility for their choices, I choose not to dominate their decision making and as scaffolding in child development is part of how children learn, gradually remove myself so they can make good, healthy and safe decisions on their own, make mistakes and be there to support them through learning. I don't think I have ever chosen a doll for my daughters, they have been well meaning gifts and one they have chosen for themselves. Whilst we have a few dolls, with a variety of different appearances, including my son's old toy soliders and G.I.Joe's, which my daughters have played with, play is not limited by one experience to shape their imagination or the image they have of themselves. My eldest daughter has passion for marine life and animals, wanting to be a Vet since she could speak and spends most of her time playing one of 3 instruments, spending time with pets or playing sport. My youngest wants to be a scientist even though she is only 4, probably as fostered her interest in collecting and sorting objects, making "experiments" by sticking things in the freezer. I haven't witnessed any negative impact in regards to their image of themselves, of others, any choices regarding dress or makeup. My eldest daughter is an adolescent and doesn't wear any makeup, with perfect skin and gorgeous personality, she is kind, compassionate and easy going, I haven't witnessed any choices she has made that have resulted of her playing with her Bratz dolls. My youngest has similar conversations with her Lego dolls/F/Price play family as she does with the Bratz dolls and in regards to the clothes - they both like making their own out of scraps of fabric....I can see why you may be concerned. My own experience is just that. I also have a diverse family of all religions and cultural/ethnic background, however my family do not always get together that often and my children are confronted by stereotyping and the myths and lies about different cultures in their schools, community and wider world, hence why I make the choice to provide a home and play environment which is inclusive of the wider world as much as we can to provide opportunities for them to ask questions and learn what is fact and what is fiction.

Kate CP - posted on 02/14/2010

Glenda: Yea...still don't want my daughter dressing that way or playing with those dolls.
My daughter's favorite toy? Her crayons. By the time she was old enough to grip one in her hand (6 months) she's been coloring, drawing, and just having a blast with colors and textures. She has dress up clothes, too. A fake kitchen with utensils (which, btw, are pretty much universal no matter what type of ethnic dish you are preparing-a wooden spoon is a wooden spoon in Africa AND Canada), stuffed animals...and a baby doll. We got her a white baby doll because it looked like her. Should we have gotten a black or Asian doll? I dunno. Her biological uncle is black, she has an aunt who is Korean, a best friend who is Hispanic, and she attends a private school where she is one of FOUR white kids in a class of twenty. I think she gets enough diversification without me having to spend money on an outrageously inappropriate doll that gives girls the impression that wearing pounds of make-up and skimpy clothes make you "cool". Plus the name in and of itself is just demeaning. They're called BRATS dolls! This is Merriam Webster's definition of a brat:
Main Entry: brat
Pronunciation: \ˈbrat\
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps from English dial. brat coarse garment
Date: circa 1505
1 a : child; specifically : an ill-mannered annoying child b : an ill-mannered immature person

Personally, I don't want to encourage my daughter to act like an ill-mannered, annoying, immature person. And that's why she won't be getting any Bratz dolls.