Circumcision - how would you deal with your son's regrets?

Amy - posted on 06/08/2010 ( 140 moms have responded )

141

11

4

I was going to post this in the thread from the other day, but I can't find it. Anyway, it intrigues me how pro-circ these forums seem to be (almost universal agreement in some threads) given that it's rare around most of the world and even the USA has a 50% circumcision rate (so it's high, but from some of these threads you'd think everyone did it).

I don't mind if this promotes vigorous debate - I'm not trolling here, but I think it's an important subject that should be debated. Some of my best friends have circed (very rare in NZ these days) and I love them for who they are and think they're fantastic parents in other respects, but still reserve the right to consider it one of the worst forms of child abuse - made worse by the fact it's mainly perpetuated by loving parents who are ignorant on the subject and blinded by culture.

One of the arguments I see here a lot is "Get it done quickly so he won't remember the pain!". I've been browsing through some of the accounts of adult men who deeply regret being circumcised as infants. Ben Affleck is one of these. Some of these accounts are so tragic:

"If I’m going to bare any scarred or partially-amputated body part in the gym shower, it should be because it had to be done for medical reasons or because it was my choice. My penis is no different in this regard. I don’t want my cockhead permanently exposed to strangers because some religion told my parents how much of my penis I could keep or because I was unlucky enough to be born in some country where boys go through surgery to lose half their penis skin “to fit in”. That’s beyond crazy. Males who get penis plastic surgery at birth will never know what it’s like to be a whole man in control of his own body. For me, that control was ceded by proxy during my first week of life. From then on, I’m just a slave; I’m living someone else’s idea of how I should explore my body, develop and enjoy sex.

Worse than that, it’s taboo to complain that my (unnecessary) penis scar is crooked, or that I lost so much skin that my erections hurt, or that my penis bends because my circumcision is lopsided. Skin bridges? "Live with it." Hardened lymph fluid, fistula, cold glans? "Live with it." Meatal stenosis? "Everyone’s got it, it’s normal. Shut up."

Listen up: It’s my penis and I’ll decide how much of it I’ll keep. I’ll decide what’s “beautiful”. I’ll decide what’s clean. I’ll decide how safe to keep it from disease and especially from anyone’s scalpel. Yeah, I’m angry that doctors and my parents are too brainwashed to understand all this, but I’m really pissed off that the law doesn’t spare them from having an ethical dilemma. It sure stopped anyone from even wondering whether to cut my sister.

...I don’t feel I’m cleaner, or more attractive, or more normal for having been put through this surgery. All I really feel is that I’m permanently branded, like a steer.

- John, from Washington, DC"

"I do have a circumcision. I hate whoever did this to me. It's spilled milk, though, I realize. You say that I'll never know unless I have a circumcision. Well because I do, I can attest to bleeding and complete destruction of sensitive nerve endings in the glans. Yes, even a chunk of my glans was taken along with the foreskin. I can't feel nearly as much as my husband. What else am I missing? I can only imagine.

Just so you know... I was circumcised and then abandoned to the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. How is that for child abuse? How is that for "cut and run", huh?

What do you say for people like me? What sort of rationalization do you have for children who had body parts sacrificed to god or the gods of the medical establishment?

Where was my consent form? Where are my rights for bodily integrity? I will say this again:

At birth in the United States, I had less rights than dogs in Switzerland. At birth in the United States, I had less rights than dead bodies here. At birth in the United States, I had less rights than girls at birth.

The allowance of circumcision in the United States for parents' whim is sexist, ageist and places the rights of dead bodies higher than my rights at birth. Where is the outrage? My body, my rights!

nhguy78 of Hudson, NH, on Rant/Rave February 21, 2010"

(From http://www.circumstitions.com/Resent.htm...)

Everyone here loves their children and wants the best for them. How would you feel if this was your son writing this way in 20-30 years? How would you justify your decision to him?

MOST HELPFUL POSTS

Jenny - posted on 06/09/2010

4,426

16

126

I never read any studies when considering whether to snip my son. There was only one consideration. I do not own my son. My son is not my property. It is not my penis, it is not my decision.

Amy - posted on 06/09/2010

141

11

4

Hi all - Amy's [uncut] Boyfriend here, I hope this is of some help...

The "locker room" thing is absolute rubbish, there is no way it forms sufficient reason to carry out genital mutilation. There are at least two reasons:

(1)
My recollection of school locker rooms was that any boy caught checking out another boy's penis was immediately deemed "gay" by the group, irrespective of whether the penis he was checking out was circumcised or not. And little boys DO NOT want to be judged "gay" by their peers, so as a result little boys do not check out each other's penises. Or when they do, they certainly don't draw attention to the fact that they are by commenting on what they see. (Unless they want the bash.)

Bigger boys in college / high school locker rooms observe a similar morale code. Except that by the time you are a teenager you know better comebacks...
Dave: "Hey bro, I notice you've got an uncut c*ck, what's up with that?"
Richard: "I don't know bro, but it your Mum [Mom] said she really likes it..."

(2)
But really, to buy into the "locker room" justification you have to ignore the obvious reality that boys of all ages give each other sh*t all the time. If it's not over the cut of his foreskin, it will be the cut of his cloth. Or ANYTHING else. We show our manly love for each other by constant belittlement, thus providing constant opportunity to prove oneself up to it, and therefore worthy.

Basically, if you look at your newborn boy and think you really want/need to cut to cut the end off his penis, you'd better have a much better reason than "some other boy might someday give him some trivial bit of grief over it".


Cheers
Richard


[PS]: And on an unrelated note, if you don't like the term "genital mutilation", you need to think seriously about why you don't.

Minnie - posted on 06/09/2010

7,076

9

786

"I'm just tired of people bashing American practices...I just hate people being nasty and arrogant"



Basically, one is not patriotic enough if one looks down upon a practice (that IS disgusting) that mostly Americans tend to practice.



What I find arrogant is that US citizens are so full of themselves as to think that just because something is commonly practiced here that it MUST be the right way, beneficial AND enlightened.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

Ya know, I'm taking a lot of offiense to the American bashing that is occuring on this thread. I don't understand why, just because it's more prevalent in the US, people feel a need to say it has to do with greed and all the other America bashing that has been stated on here. Because America is not like the rest of the world with regards to circumcision doesn't mean that we're bad!

I had my son circumsized and honestly, he's almost 17 now and we've discussed this in the past and I've asked if he feels we made the wrong choice. His answer was pretty simple. Why would I want to look different than my friends or my father. He also said that cleaning it would have been a pain in the butt because there is, no matter what anyone thinks, more hygeniene that needs to occur on uncircumcized men.

There are many studies that suggest that the rate of cancer, HIV infection and other medical issues are less prevalent in males who have been circumcized. There are also many studies that suggest the opposite so we could debate this all day long.

I love debating issues like this but honestly, when you start bashing countries for their practices, that's when I get ticked off. If you don't like that I decided to circumcize my son, that's fine but don't talk about the greed of the US...there are a lot of US mom's on this site that don't want to hear that.

Sarah - posted on 06/09/2010

5,465

31

331

I'm from the UK too, and I agree with everything Jennifer just said.
There's no need for circumcision.
The foreskin is there for a reason!

This conversation has been closed to further comments

140 Comments

View replies by

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

I did not say that it MUST be the right way. I said that it was right for ME and MY family. I have not said to anybody else that they made the wrong decision in not having it done. You are the only people saying that your decision is the better one. I have ONLY defended MY decision for my family.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

@LaCi.....I cut and pasted from a WHO (World Health Organization) document. My goodness....you are just determined! I'm done discussing this with you because this is not a healthy debate....it's not an enjoyable discussion any longer.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

I just quoted you to my son, LaCi and he said....GREAT, I'll be a doctor then!!!

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

Try again with that one Jane, Check their website and not someone misquoting them.

PEDIATRICS Vol. 103 No. 3 March 1999, pp. 686-693
AMERICAN ACADEMY OF PEDIATRICS:
Circumcision Policy Statement
Task Force on Circumcision
Existing scientific evidence demonstrates potential medical benefits of newborn male circumcision; however, these data are not sufficient to recommend routine neonatal circumcision. In circumstances in which there are potential benefits and risks, yet the procedure is not essential to the child's current well-being, parents should determine what is in the best interest of the child. To make an informed choice, parents of all male infants should be given accurate and unbiased information and be provided the opportunity to discuss this decision. If a decision for circumcision is made, procedural analgesia should be provided.
.

Statement of reaffirmation:
AAP Publications Retired and Reaffirmed
American Academy of Pediatrics
Pediatrics 2005 116: 796. [Extract] [Full Text] [PDF]

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

Here's a nice way to justify it to one's son, "the doctor needed an extra $40 grand and we were helping him meet his quota"



"Circumcision is a $2 billion healthcare market, which includes costs for the pro- cedure itself, dealing with complications, and payment for repairs (Fauntleroy, 2001). A study of Medicaid records found that a greater number of circumcisions are per- formed in states where Medicaid pays more for the procedure (Craig & Bollinger, 2006). A busy delivery-room obstetrician will do as many as five circumcisions a week. Physician reimbursement is at about $167 each6 (Van Howe, 2004), which means that they can potentially make an extra $3,340 per month, or $40,080 per year. That is more than an entire year’s income for 45% of Americans (US Census Bureau, 2005). "





We hear very little in the media about circumcision-related deaths compared with other causes. For instance, compare the 117 annual deaths from circumcision with those from other causes for male infants: suffocation (44), mother’s use of addictive drugs (27), HIV/AIDS (19), homicide (17), automobile accidents (8), drowning (2), and falls (1) (CDC, 2004). Sudden infant-death syndrome (SIDS) killed 1,216 boys under the age of one year in 2004; of those, 115 were under the age of 1 month (CDC), which is the same risk as from circumcision. Approximately 36 teen-aged boys are killed in school- yard shootings each year (Donohue, Schiraldi, & Ziedenberg, 1998). But there is more publicity for the SIDS deaths and shootings than for the circumcision-related deaths.



From Dan Bollinger, Article publishes in The Journal of Men's Studies, scholarly/peer reviewed.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

IN conclusion, if you read the whole document, you'll find a LOT of useful information in it. Should make for some interesting reading.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

Read pages 16 and 17 of the above document. It does clearly state that "The American Academy
of Pediatrics has issued several statements on neonatal
circumcision since 1971, with the most recent
(issued in 1999; reaffirmed in May 2005) stating that
there are insufficient data to recommend routine neonatal
circumcision (74)".

I'm not an advocate for ANYTHING regarding circumcision. I had my son circumcized, I don't regret it and he's totally fine with it as well. I just think people need to respect others decisions.

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

See, I think that your studies don't mean crap either. We're in the exact same spot. I made my decision as an informed person. If you don't like my information, too bad for you. I feel that you can find information against it just as easily as I can find it for it. We both have statistics. And I don't believe yours any more than you believe mine.



None of you will change my mind and make me feel as if I made an ignorant decision. My decision was informed and read up on. It wasn't just done on a whim.

Lindsay - posted on 06/09/2010

13

0

0

Amber if your evidence is so compeling wouldn't health organizations recommend routine infant circumcision????

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

Amber, you aren't going to change my mind that you made an ignorant decision. Plain and simple. Congratulations on the fathers degree, that is FANTASTIC, but guess what? I've met a lot of ignorant doctors and substantially more ignorant nurses. A degree is not what makes you a credible individual. He can quote medical texts all he likes, until he can show me a study that was PROPERLY conducted, relevant to our society, and involved no other factors in the rate of disease transmission the things you quote don't really mean crap. You can find articles in any book and online to support any viewpoint you want to have, you can not change the facts of the studies themselves which are what you need to be reading. Medical organizations do not promote circumcision to prevent any illness because there have not been substantial studies, all were flawed and all came to conflicting conclusions.

Julia - posted on 06/09/2010

1,075

16

79

its because those organizations are UNBIASED so they will provide both pro's and con's however their OVERALL stance is that is it NOT recommended.

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

I've already posted the evidence that we based our decision on. He helped to find all of that information. And some of those articles came from WHO. Look back at it and see. I posted where they came from. So, you cannot tell me WHO doesn't see benefits of it when articles were printed by them stating the benefits. Counter-intuitive there.

[deleted account]

Ok, so after reading this entire post I've changed my mind.....IF I have a son, we will not be circumsizing him.....Chad agrees! Thanks for all the information ladies!

P.S. At 28 my brother CHOSE to be circumsized and I'm not sure why but I'm sure as hell gonna find out!

Good luck to everyone!

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

And I have listed post after post refuting what you have said. So, your research means nothing to me. The first thing I said in my comment was for every reason you come up with to not have it done, I can find research that says I should have it done. You're "reasons" are refuted by my research.

So, for me they become a moot point because we both have opposing evidence on the same subjects. Yours says no, mine says yes. We can hardly say which is correct since they are completely opposite.

Julia - posted on 06/09/2010

1,075

16

79

if he has a medical degree then he would KNOW the stance of the AAP and WHO which is there is NO MEDICAL REASON AND THEY DO NOT RECOMMEND ROUTINE CIRCUMCISION ON NEWBORNS. How is it that I know that and I am just starting on working on my degree...and it is far from cry from a medical degree that I am working on.

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

So not only are we monsters and child abuser but we are now uneducated?

My son's father has a medical degree thank you very much. We did research this before we made our decision. Know what you're talking about before you make comments about our ignorance.

Lady - posted on 06/09/2010

2,136

73

221

Amber if you honesty believe that no one has given you any reason why you should not have circumcised your son then I'm not sure what thread you have been reading - there have been post after post of resons, research after research - doctors across the world and medical practisioner refute the need. This is not an attack against Americans so don't turn it into that this is a circumcision debate!!

Lindsay - posted on 06/09/2010

13

0

0

Those who circumcised and your son recovered well and didn't seem in pain, that is fantastic, I can't explain to you how wondeful that is. Even though I'm agaisnt circumcision I would never ever wish a complication on someones child(or for a parent to see their child go through it). Seeing your child bleed so bad that nurses are rushing in to put pressure in the wound and the doctor talking possible blood transfusion on a newborn is scary. 5 years later my son is happy and healthy(except for his penis having reattchement problems leaving ocassionaly pain). Yes, we've seen many doctors and they are all relunctant to do surgery again, nor do I feel comfy with that now anyway. He does have a cream to help when his penis gets a flare up. We shall have to wait and see how his penis grows during puberty. Point being complications happen and you think it is rare and I guess around 5% (I've seen different rate of complications, but would say about 5% seems the average) is rare, but not rare enough. And if this happened because my son really neededt this surgery because he would have died or really have been in constant pain, I think I'd at least be somewhat ok with the decision to remove his foreksin, but that just wasn't the case. I have meet many moms whose children have had some sort of complication from circumcision. Yes, most are from the Internet, but I've actually meet 3 in real life.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

@ "G"illian - Ya know? I knew it was with a G....it's my fault because my neice's name is Jill and when I type, it just naturally goes to a "J" for me. I'll be more careful. I like it with a "G"...it's very pretty!!!!

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

It doesn't really matter if you had problems with your sons or not. The fact that you subject an infant to an unnecessary medical procedure which has serious risks for no logical reason is what is absurd. It very well can turn out fine, and it very well can go horribly wrong. That's a risk that NO ONE should be taking.

If someones son grows up with animosity over the fact that he was circumcised there is no way to justify it to him, because he has likely read the "pro's" and trying to throw unsubstantial "facts" at him to justify their reasoning won't make a bit of difference to him. All he will be able to do is chalk it up to his parents ignorance and deal with it, all the while still having some resentment over the fact that his parents put him through surgery, against his will, that effects his body for the rest of his life without educating themselves on the matter.

Amber - posted on 06/09/2010

1,909

13

144

As I've already said, for every bit of research you find, I can find something to refute it! We can all find research that says we are right on both sides. You will choose to believe yours and I'll choose to believe mine.

I stand behind my decision and so does my son's father. That is what matters to me! Good for you for not doing it, I'm not calling you a bad parent because you didn't have it done. I'm not bashing your countries because you don't practice it.

The only thing I've done is provide information on why I made my decision. I cannot believe how disrespectful some of your comments are.

You are not coming up with any constructive reasons why I shouldn't have done what I did. You are simply attacking my character and my country, which makes me think that your points are unimportant.

If you gave me an actual REASON to believe you, maybe I would. But everything you have said can be refuted with my own research. And the rest of the comments are just derrogatory put downs. So, at this point I'm not even taking your comments seriously anymore.

[deleted account]

I had the same experience w/ my son as well, Sherri. No signs of discomfort whatsoever w/ any diaper change or anything during the healing process.

Julia - posted on 06/09/2010

1,075

16

79

Ok here it is...Born and raised in the US. Small town Ohio as a matter of fact. Granted I am Hispanic however, I have had this discussion with my mother on at least 6 different occasions. (I've had 6 pregnancies, given birth 4 times)

My father (63) is not circumsized he has never (my parents have been married for 43 yrs and have been together for 46) had a problem with his or been made fun of for it.

My mother has never had any infections or anything because my dad is not circumsized.

My eldest brother (43) is not circumsized, is gay and has never had any problems with it.

My other brother (38) is circumsized but only because he is adopted.

My nephew (14) is not circumsized never had problems or been made fun of.

Nephew (12) is not and never had problems or been made fun of

Nephew (11) is not and never had problems or been made fun of

Nephew (9) is not and never had problems or been made fun of

Nephew (7) is not and never had problems or been made fun of

My son (2 mths) is not and so far has not had problems but has been made fun of by his own father who is circumsized.


My husband's reasoning behind wanted to circumsize our son was because he is in the Infantry in the Army. He used to the old school army where he was in the field for months at a time with hardly any time to clean themselves, and when his son joins the army he won't have time to clean himself when he's in the field. I called his bullshit on that one because he hasn't gone into the field for longer than 2 weeks since 2000.

PS Amber, there is NO MEDICAL reason to get it done...

Lindsay - posted on 06/09/2010

13

0

0

Let me put it simply for everyone. You can find sites that lists pros and cons. The pros I find very very weaK(ie...reduces penile cancer, yet penile cancer only occurs in 1 in 100,000 men.... The chance of a side effect from circcumcision is more common). Anyway, my point being those that circ can find a list of pros and maybe they seem good to you. BUT the simple fact that no health organization recommends routine infant circumcision, should really close the book on the matter... So list all the pros you want, but Medical societies are clearly saying "this is not needed nor recommended practice in order to keep your child healthy". You just can't argue that.



As for the original question I plan on apologizing and explaining to my oldest about his circ before he probably even thinks to question me. He had complications from his circ, so I'm sure he will hate his penis. I plan on explaining that his father and I could admit we made a mistake and that is why his brother is intact

Lady - posted on 06/09/2010

2,136

73

221

It's a subject some people feel very strongly about and the OP stired some heavy emotions.
Side note - my name really is Gillian - it's not a typo lol!!!

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

@Jillian - I think that's totally fine. Trying to understand it is fine....I'm just tired of people bashing American practices...some say "greed", some say "I would trust what American doctors say", etc. Some people feeling a need to be right and just being, quite frankly arrogant and an ass. Whatever....I think I've participated enough to show that I don't typically get heated on debates. I think debating is fun and healthy. I just don't see why people MUST feel they have to be right. Again, there are so many studies to show why it's better from a health perspective and so many that say it doesn't matter. We could debate this forever. I just hate people being nasty and arrogant...that's all.

I think I'm done with this one...I've had enough penis talk (LOL) :)

Lady - posted on 06/09/2010

2,136

73

221

@ Jane - I think people are just trying to understand why Americans continue to cling onto a practice that the majority of the word deems unneccesary!

Sherri - posted on 06/09/2010

9,593

15

387

I haven't noticed any different for any of friends or families circumcised boys either. It doesn't bother them nearly as much as it bothers you.

Jane - posted on 06/09/2010

1,041

5

69

@Jillian - I understand "not understanding" it, however, when someone states American Greed...that's not about "not understanding"....that's bashing.

Lady - posted on 06/09/2010

2,136

73

221

The reason it sounds like America bashing is because the rest of the world doesn't do it, the rest of the world doesn't understand it and the rest of the world has not been brought up thinking it the right thing to do - when you are not brought told that circumcision is the norm them it looks like genital mutilation. just like to some countries female circumcision looks right but to most it seems barbaric - it's the same with boys and the rest of the world - our men don't get it done and yet they do not suffer so that argument seems proposteous to us - take a step back and try to see other peoples points of veiw then you may understand why it looks like America bashing!!

Sherri - posted on 06/09/2010

9,593

15

387

None of my children even seemed to notice even when we changed the dressing. They didn't cry, wimper or act any differently when it healed and I changed there diaper. If it bothered them they would have cried out in pain. None of them ever did that. If they were miserable I may have not done it with the last 2 but they were fine with it.

Sarah - posted on 06/09/2010

5,465

31

331

It's got to be uncomfortable though, and when the numbing agent wears off, it's got to hurt surely!
It's gonna hurt more than not doing it at all :)

Sherri - posted on 06/09/2010

9,593

15

387

Sarah they are not in pain they are given a numbing agent and are all better within a couple of days.

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

pffft You know you're a dirty group of people. And you smell funny. ;D

In times before circumcisions all men's penises rotted off before they were 16.

Sarah - posted on 06/09/2010

5,465

31

331

I guess what I don't understand is why people think it's necessary. I mean it's not often done here in the UK and all the men aren't walking around with dirty penises, or infections and stuff!

Also, the reasoning of doing it so "they look their friends and Dad" just seems crazy to me! I'm not going to mess around with my genitals so I can look just like my Mum!!!!!

It just seems cruel to me to put a newborn through unnecessary pain.

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

If pulling back foreskin and rinsing it off in the shower is a lot of work to someone there is something very wrong beyond sex organs.

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

Certainly, I wouldn't say parents who circumcise are monsters. The problem is the complete lack of education on the subject, and doctors perpetuating an archaic and unnecessary practice. I honestly didn't know anything about circumcision until my third year of college when I took a sex class, and had I not taken that class I may have never known, I definitely wouldn't have looked at it so in depth. Just as we're trying to educate people on FGM we should be educating people in circumcision, as well as how to conduct a relevant scientific study on the matter. I'm pretty tired of hearing "studies show" across news broadcasts without anyone reading the actual study, what it entails, and factors it doesn't include.

Jaime - posted on 06/09/2010

4,427

24

196

Wow...I'm impressed at how nicely this debate has unfolded...excuse the pun. I don't think that there is much more that I can offer that hasn't already been stated. I am not a supporter of circumcision...but I will say that I won't go as far as to call someone a child abuser or a monster for their decision to have it done. I have to bite my tongue a lot in conversations with friends that support circumcision because, despite the plethora of information available that supports leaving a child intact, there is a much stronger social stigma that still outweighs all other reasoning. It's sad that in North America particularly, we are so hung up on the social acceptability of certain things, that we are willing to risk a surgery that has been deemed unnecessary by every single doctor in the world pretty much. I do think that in the next decade, circumcision in North America will become more and more rare...if the increasing cost doesn't deter people, then the lack of support from medical professionals will eventually lend some massive strength to the side of the debate that favours the 'unnecessary' viewpoint.

Morag - posted on 06/09/2010

304

14

23

Please.. .PLEASE don't state this as fact for your kids.

"• Increases by 2–4 fold the risk of thrush and sexually transmitted infections such as human papillomavirus (HPV), genital herpes (HSV-2), syphilis, chancroid, Trichomonas vaginalis and thrush.

• Is the biggest risk factor for heterosexually-acquired AIDS virus infection in men. 2 to 8-times higher risk by itself, and even higher when lesions from STIs are added in. Risk per exposure = 1 in 300.

• In the female partners of uncircumcised men lack of male circumcision is associated with an up to 5 fold higher incidence of cervical cancer (caused by sexually transmitted HPV), genital herpes, Trichomonas vaginalis, bacterial vaginosis (formerly called “Gardnerella”), and possibly Chlamydia (which is a cause of pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility from blockage of fallopian tubes, and ectopic pregnancy)."

Please. Tell them to wear condoms. Only condoms prevent transmission of STD's not circumcision. The US has the highest rate of circumcision in the western world, and ironically also the highest rate of AIDS. Clearly your assumption that circumcision prevents AIDS and STD transmission is incorrect. The only thing that prevents infection is condoms. Telling your children that they have a decreased risk of STD transmission because they are circumcised is giving them a green light to have unprotected sex. By preaching this to your children, you place their lives, the lives of their sexual partners and possible grandchildren at risk in the future. CONDOMS! CONDOMS! CONDOMS! please. Don't do this to your children.

Plus you don't know if your child will be hetrosexual or homosexual. If he becomes homosexual you increase his risk of contracting the AIDS virus because he is circmcised.

If you agree with circumcision that is fine. If you feel the need to justify your decision to others because you may just have taken a decision away from your child that was never yours to take, then you need to deal with that in your own way. But for your children's sake, for the sake of a good friend of mine who died from AIDS... please teach them safe sex always and that all the circumcision in the world will NEVER EVER protect them.

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

From doctors opposing circumcision:

On HIV:
Effectiveness: Circumcision does not prevent HIV infection. The Auvert study in South Africa reported 20 infections in circumcised males.11 A study in Kenya reported 22 infections in circumcised males. Brewer & found higher rates of HIV infection in circumcised virgins and adolescents.24 The United States has the highest rate of HIV infection and the highest rate of male circumcision in the industrialized world. Male circumcision, therefore, cannot reasonably be thought to prevent HIV infection.



On HPV/Cervical cancer: The discovery rate for cancer of the cervix among non-Jewish women whose marital partners were circumcised was no different from the rate among non-Jewish women with non-circumcised husbands5
Circumcision status did not emerge as a factor. Multiple marriages, however, did emerge as a risk factor.5



From CIRP.org

On UTIs:
National Institutes of Health Recommendation
The National Kidney and Urologic Diseases Clearinghouse (NKUDIC), a service of the National Institutes of Health, maintains a comprehensive set of pages, listing the known causes of urinary tract infections in adults and children. NKUDIC does not suggest circumcision as a prevention or cure of urinary tract infection.
Second, in 1999, The 1999 AAP Task Force on Circumcision abandoned the previous stance of the 1989 Task Force on Circumcision that circumcision may provide protection against UTI.53 The 1999 Task Force found that the bulk of the UTI studies were so methodologically flawed—by failing to control for confounding factors such as breastfeeding—that no meaningful conclusions could be drawn from them.53 The 1999 AAP Task Force on Circumcision could not, therefore, recommend circumcision to reduce incidence of UTI (or any other disease).


On Penile Cancer:
Post-circumcision cancer may occur at the circumcision scar.16,23 The cause is unknown. One may hypothesize that the circumcision scar tissue is less resistant to penetration of HPV which then transfers DNA to the human cell and starting the growth of the neoplasm. More research is needed to determine the etiology of post-circumcision cancer.

American Cancer Society. The American Cancer Society issued a five part advisory statement on penile cancer in June 1999. Circumcision is not considered to be beneficial in preventing or reducing the risk of penile cancer. The ACS indentifies HPV, smoking, and phimosis as risk factors. Sexually active adult males with a non-retractable foreskin should have the phimotic condition treated. (See phimosis for conservative treatment options. Circumcision is outmoded as a treatment for phimosis.)

The ACS states that penile cancer is extremely rare in Europe and North America. The cancer only occurs in 1 in 100,000 men. Penile cancer usually occurs well beyond age 50, although it can occur earlier.




Thats all I have time for now, as for problems with the foreskin there need to be studies done on how many fucktards pull back the foreskin before it is supposed to retract for me to put ANY faith in those stats.

Sherri - posted on 06/09/2010

9,593

15

387

Our ob/gyn used a numbing agent so my boys felt no discomfort. It literally took 5 mins and within 3 days was pretty much healed and good to go. Where we are it is so common place no male I have ever known is sorry to have it done anyone I have spoken to is happy to have had it done and wouldn't want it differently. We as parents are doing what feel is right for our children. You do the research and make a decision before your child is born certain things you will do for your child. Circumcise, Immunize etc. If I can save my child from infections, disease or cancer yes I am going to do that. We did what was right for our family as you will all do what is right for your families. My husband and children don't have a problem with it, so if they don't why do you. It was procedure done to them not you, they are happy with it. So you have a problem why?

LaCi - posted on 06/09/2010

3,361

3

171

My boyfriends isn't botched, perfectly normal cut penis. He's still not happy about it, I think most people just don't talk about it because theres really not much of anything they can do to change it.

Heather - posted on 06/09/2010

68

23

4

my son is 16 months and as of now is not circumsized. we would have, but we did not like the fact that they do it as an infant without any anesthia. also we did not want him to get the vitamin k shot, so no dr. wanted to do it. we always planned on doing it because i've always read it's healthier for them, but now you all have me rethinking it. i'll definitely have to do some more research on it. btw all the men in my family are circ, as well as my husband, and i've never heard any of them complaining about it. i would imagine most people who are regretful are the poor souls who had a botched job.

Rosie - posted on 06/09/2010

8,657

30

315

it's people who are anti-circ that make some who are circumcised feed this way. MANY people wouldn't of given 2 shits if they hadn't heard the crazy stuff spewing out of peoples mouth. it's people like that that make them feel "mutilated" or "disgusting" or that their parents robbed them of something. they would've gone on with their happy life if people would just but out of other peoples right to do what they want with their own kid.



everybody is comparing hacking off organs to circumcision. it's just a piece of skin for christs sake. the "surgery" takes less than 5 minutes, you give tylenol for any discomfort, and after about a week it's all healed and done with.

my husband and i have talked about this many times before cause this debate always gets me heated as well. he thinks that those who deem it mutilation are crazy. he loves that he's circumcised, thanks god his mother did it for him, and doesn't see how anybody can think it's wrong. i have to agree wholeheartedly.



someone said no health organizations recommend it, and thats wrong. the WHO recommends it for people in africa because it has such a dramatic impact on AIDS there.



you all can go around belittling other people and calling them monsters all you want, but you have NO IDEA what it's like to have a child get circumcised. if you do and your child had a problem, i can totally understand feelings of animosity against circumcision then. but for the normal family who's had it done, there is no illfeelings at all. i've never known a man to be unhappy with his parents choice for him. why would they after knowing this:

Lack of circumcision:

• Is responsible for a 12-fold higher risk of urinary tract infections in infancy. Risk = 1 in 20 to 1 in 50 for uncircumcised infants and 1 in 200 to 1 in 500 for circumcised infants. Higher risk of UTI at older ages as well. Overall lifetime cumulative prevalence of UTI = 1 in 3 for uncircumcised males compared with 1 in 20 for circumcised males, respectively.



• Confers a higher risk of death in the first year of life (from complications of urinary tract infections: namely kidney failure, meningitis and infection of bone marrow).



• One in ~400–900 uncircumcised men will get cancer of the penis, which occurs more than 20 times more commonly in uncircumcised men. A quarter of these will die from it and the rest will require complete or partial penile amputation as a result. (In contrast, invasive penile cancer never occurs or is extraordinarily rare in men circumcised at birth.) (Data from studies in the USA, Denmark and Australia, which are not to be confused with the often quoted, but misleading, annual incidence figure of 1 in 100,000).



• Higher risk of prostate cancer (50–100% higher in uncircumcised men)



• Is associated with 3-fold higher risk of inflammation and infection of the skin of the penis. This includes balanitis (inflammation of the glans), posthitis (inflammation of the foreskin), balanoposthitis (inflammation of glans and foreskin), phimosis (inability to retract the foreskin) and paraphimosis (constriction of the penis by a tight foreskin that will not return after retraction). Up to 18% of uncircumcised boys will develop one of these by 8 years of age, whereas all are unknown or much rarer in the circumcised. Risk of balanoposthitis = 1 in 6. Obstruction to urine flow = 1 in 10–50. Risk of these is even higher in diabetic men.



• Means increased risk of problems that may necessitate 1 in 10 older children and men requiring circumcision later in life, when the cost is 10 times higher, the procedure is less convenient, and the cosmetic result can be lesser, as stitches or tissue glue are required, as compared with circumcisions done in infancy.



• Increases by 2–4 fold the risk of thrush and sexually transmitted infections such as human papillomavirus (HPV), genital herpes (HSV-2), syphilis, chancroid, Trichomonas vaginalis and thrush.



• Is the biggest risk factor for heterosexually-acquired AIDS virus infection in men. 2 to 8-times higher risk by itself, and even higher when lesions from STIs are added in. Risk per exposure = 1 in 300.



• In the female partners of uncircumcised men lack of male circumcision is associated with an up to 5 fold higher incidence of cervical cancer (caused by sexually transmitted HPV), genital herpes, Trichomonas vaginalis, bacterial vaginosis (formerly called “Gardnerella”), and possibly Chlamydia (which is a cause of pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility from blockage of fallopian tubes, and ectopic pregnancy).

Join Circle of Moms

Sign up for Circle of Moms and be a part of this community! Membership is just one click away.

Join Circle of Moms