Dairy

[deleted account] ( 72 moms have responded )

I had no idea how much people hated milk until I joined CoM lol. What are your thoughts on milk? Do you drink it? Do you think it's necessary to our diets?

I've read some accusations directed at diary farmers and it annoys me (since I grew up on a dairy farm and I know how hard it is to get that milk). No, I don't think we need milk, but it can provide nutrients if you choose to drink it. I, personally, love milk and dairy of all forms. I had a love affair with dairy during my last pregnancy lol. I could not get enough milk, cheese, sour cream, ice cream, cottage cheese...

What are your thoughts on dairy?

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[deleted account]

Jenni, try non-homogenized. The homogenization process takes all the cream and breaks it down so that it distributes equally through the milk. It was a marketing thing done in the 1930's to make all milk look the same. It also makes milk very hard to digest. I spent most of my life believing I was lactose intolerant, because milk upset my stomach. Turns out, it was just the way milk is processed. I buy whole milk with all the cream still on top, but you can buy 2% or skim where they take the "skim" the cream off the top.

[deleted account]

I didn't think I'd be able to find as much good local food as I have...once I started looking it all came out of the woodwork! And farmers know each other. I found my milk guy from my beef girl.

[deleted account]

That's why GRASS-fed is important. Bacteria comes from cows being kept in a barn eating grain. They live in their poop. Of course there will be nasty things like listeria. That's why pasteurization became a practice in the first place. More people started living in cities and there was no room for a large farm with cows freely grazing. Cows will move away from their poop if allowed. So instead of the government saying cows had to have pasture and grass to prevent disease, they said milk had to be pasteurized. I wouldn't be concerned with drinking raw milk from a cow that I owned or I knew the farmer and his practices very well. I wouldn't go to a state where it's legal and buy it off the shelf. FYI, listeria can also be found in deli meat and raw vegetables. What can you eat?

Rosie - posted on 09/07/2011

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yeah, the things we do to our food makes me want to cry. we have all these animals living in crappy conditions, so we pump them full of antibiotics and give them hormones to produce more to get more for our buck. -instead of just giving them grass, and having less animals on the farm which would eliminate all of that.
then we take the gross sickly milk and pasteurize it to kill all the gross things we caused it to have. so basically it still has nasty pus and bacteria rolling around in it, they are just killed.
then to top it all off we homogenize it, so as to not have to deal with that pesky cream on the top. homogenization distributes the cream evenly through the milk making it more pleasing to the eye. problem with this is that is makes it harder to digest. the cream particles are smaller and can pass through arteries making you absorb more saturated fat from the milk itself. it's a shame what we do to our food.

grassfed, non homogenized milk that is raw is the way to go. if you can't get raw get VAT pasteurized. it's the lowest temp. allowed for pasteurization. leaving "some" of the healthy bacteria there.

[deleted account]

Katherine, I've 'discovered' since being on circle of moms that what you call homo milk is what we call whole milk. I think that's where some of the confusion is coming in. Whole milk, or homo milk as you call it, is milk with all the fat in it.

Now there are two processes that most milk goes through. Pasteurization and homogenization. Pasteurization is putting milk under heat to kill bacteria (and unfortunately, it's not needed in grass-fed cows and kills some good bacteria).

All milk fresh from the cow has a layer of cream on top. If you take the cream off, then you have 2%, 1% or skim milk, depending on how much cream you remove. The homogenization process breaks the cream down so that is distributes evenly through the milk and is not visible. This is terrible for digestion and one reason so many people are lactose intolerant. There is a chance you'd be able to digest non-homogenized milk...milk that has the cream on top or where the cream has simply been skimmed off.

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Minnie - posted on 09/28/2011

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I guess you gotta do what you can with what you can. If that's the closest? *shrugs*



I'm sure that low heat doesn't denature the proteins that ultrapasteurization in organic milk does. And if the enzymes are intact..



For us the toss up if we don't do raw is: regular (filled with pus, rancid cholesterol and fat from homogenization that leads to heart disease, denatured proteins that lead to calcium malabsorption from regular pasteurization) or organic, which isn't filled with pus or chemicals, but is just flat out dead. Fried. And of course rancid and denatured.



It's the homogenization that's way worse so you're probably well off.

[deleted account]

Lisa, how do you feel about low heat vat pasteurized, non-homogenized? That's the closest thing I can get to raw and still be legal around here. According to the farmer, the low heat doesn't kill all the good stuff like normal pasteurization does. I also get cream for my coffee and butter from him.

Minnie - posted on 09/28/2011

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I'm not concerned- any more than I would be from drinking pasteurized milk. There's a whole lot of chance for it to be contaminated AFTER pasteurization.



And I continue to eat extra rare beef, my daughters love raw shrimp, and oh- I eat fresh produce, which has a much higher risk of getting you sick than raw dairy from a small farm with healthy grass-fed cows.



If I couldn't get raw milk I wouldn't drink milk at all. -I- am all too aware of the health risks due to drinking pasteurized homogenized milk. :)

Katherine - posted on 09/28/2011

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I still can't grasp drinking raw unpasturized milk. Sorry.

I grew up on a farm and never did that, my dad grew up on a farm and never did it.

I guess I'm just far to aware of what could happen and would rather drink the pasturized stuff when needed then get sick from the raw milk.

Plus I wanted my baby to not have a chance of getting sick from when I had him....listeria...no thanks

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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I agree, you don't need dairy in your diet to be healthy.

I think it's a nice addition. I try to give my five year old most of the milk, as I forcibly weaned her at 12 months. Not concerned about my still nursing three year old. Though she does have a small cup about once a day.

I occasionally have some milk, but it's not high on my list. I prefer to have a bit of yogurt in the morning, but usually I stick to coconut milk.

So, milk (I prefer raw because I really don't believe that pasteurized homogenized milk even comes close to what raw offers) is a good source of nutrients, but not a necessary one.

Minnie - posted on 09/27/2011

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Just saw this- Sherri, there honestly aren't that great prices for grass-fed and pastured meat here. Cheapest you can get is about $5.50-$6 a pound for beef or pork and you have to buy a LOT to get it that cheap. Half a cow here is $1300 up front. Pastured chickens, lol, oh my, $16 a bird. No way.



I personally don't have that much money sitting around, no credit cards.



So we don't eat local meat, unfortunately. It sucks, because I know it's so much better for us.



We get our eggs from Lavalley Farms in Hooksett, $3 a dozen pastured, and our milk from Bartlett Farms up in Concord, but I know you don't do raw.

[deleted account]

Wow, that's crazy. I had a friend who went off dairy while nursing, and it was insane the amount of foods that she could not eat.

Colleen - posted on 09/27/2011

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I myself have issues digesting the protein in ALL dairy and I will get sick with severe cramps and throw up if I eat any dairy. My 2 year old daughter is severely allergic to ALL dairy even the other proteins like casein and whey that are both made from dairy. She was almost hospitalized because of the allergy and they say because I can not eat it, she may never grow out of it. I've had many docters tell me YOU DO NOT NEED DAIRY IN YOUR DIET TO BE HEALTHY! There is plenty of other foods that contain calcium and have vit D and all the other vitamins people need. I drink almond milk which for one is very very good and has tons of vitamins in it. My daughter does not drink any kind of "milk" substance. She gets all the vitamins she needs with a kids multi vit and the foods she eats. She is off the charts in height and her weight is in the 70%, her BMI is very very good so with dairy not in her diet she is a very healthy kid. Just think for a min what your life would be like if you have to watch EVERYTHING your child puts in her mouth to make she the ingredients doesn't contain any dairy. I mean bread, crackers, snack bars, cereal, etc etc. It's SCARY how many things have dairy in it and could potentially have my child end up in the hospital. :(

Katherine - posted on 09/12/2011

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April, I think Sara meant farmers markets, most towns and cities will hold weekly markets where local farmers can sell their things (meat, milk, eggs, veggies, flowers etc etc etc)

April - posted on 09/12/2011

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awww the fair is only once a year in September and it's over already! we didn't end up going. :( hopefully, i can find another way to connect with the right people!! :(

[deleted account]

Ask the farmers when you see them at the fair! My chicken and egg lady is at the farmer's market every week. I found my beef girl from a friend that knew I was looking. I found my milk guy from my beef girl. The milk guy goes to the farmer's market in Baton Rouge. I don't typically make it to that one, just the one in my town. My honey guy is also at the farmer's market. My husband's boss buys us bulk whole white wheat from Amish country when she goes twice a year (so much cheaper). So I found most of these people through the farmer's market and social networking (not like facebook...by knowing somebody that knows somebody!)

April - posted on 09/11/2011

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Sara, how does one find out where the local farms are? If i were to google it or something, where would I start? I know there's got to be farms in my area because of the state fair. Most of the vendors there are farmers!

Rosie - posted on 09/11/2011

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oh sara, about the expiration thing. mine expires 3 days after you open it. unopened it goes for longer obviously, but once opened it says on it to use within 3 days. i've gone over and it tastes funky-not rotten, just not quite as good.

[deleted account]

Oh Dyan, I'd LOVE to be able to 1) afford to buy a half cow and 2) have a place to store all that meat. Oh, I'd LOVE LOVE LOVE to have that much meat on hand. We consume meat rarely and not becuase of health or diet but we simply can't afford it a lot. The cuts I can afford are generally the fattier cuts, ex. pork butt steaks. I never buy cut up chickens anymore. I like cutting up my own because I know all the parts will cook evenly since they'll all be proportionate in size.

I bake most of our bread from scratch which I am sad to say isn't that much cheaper than buying poor quality white bread. However I do like it more and making it is therapeutic. I do recommend (since we're in the milk thread) that if anyone does a lot of baking to invest in a big box of instant milk powder. It's pretty nasty to drink imo but you can't tell the difference in baked breads. I do it exclusively now. It's so much cheaper in the long run than using regular milk.

[deleted account]

Sorry to disillusion you Krista. If it makes you feel any better... my best friend has the same opinion of dark chocolate that I have of milk chocolate. ;)

[deleted account]

The free range chickens I buy are $8 for a whole bone-in chicken. Miss Judy, my chicken and egg lady, always saves me a big one though. She saves the big eggs for me too ($3/doz). It is more pricy, but we don't eat chicken breast as a meal. I use diced chicken as a part of my recipes. I can make one chicken stretch for 3 dishes...chicken salad for husband's midnight lunches at work, chicken nuggets for the kiddo, and one supper during the week. Plus I can make chicken stock from it.

Rosie - posted on 09/10/2011

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yeah jen, i can't afford to do the chicken either. the beef i've found isn't all that much more expensive. i've looked but don't have an opportunity to buy a 1/2 cow like sara. i get mine from a farmer who does a buying club and he prices each cut individually. some cuts are almost double, other cuts are just a few cents more expensive then regular. like i said i just cut back the amount of meat i eat, and other areas in my spending. :)

Krista - posted on 09/10/2011

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Plain milk chocolate is just wrong. ;)

You know, I could handle the fact that our faith systems are very different..but this?

I don't know, Teresa. I feel so disillusioned.

[deleted account]

I would have no problem eating only organic meat but the price of a 3-4lb 'regular' chicken is under $5 while his organic free-range cousin is over $10. When your food bill is less than $50 a week for 2 people, you do the math and know you can get 2x the meals out of the first chicken. Until they make it cheaper, I wont' be eating it. Same goes with milk. I can buy a gallon of regular skim milk for $2 but a half gallon of organic milk is more than that. The one thing I can get 100% organic and free range are eggs because one of my co-workers has a farm and sells eggs to us at work. $2 a dozen. Only a little more than the grocery store. They do taste so much better too. So I think we'd all eat the organic stuff if it wasn't so much more expensive.

[deleted account]

For awhile we thought I was lactose intolerant and I hated it! I love all things dairy. MIlk, yogurt, cheese, you name it. I"ve tried goat and sheep milk but cow will remain my favorite. We go through a gallon and a half of skim a week.

[deleted account]

Milk isn't neccessary, but my kids and I like it and will never stop drinking it. ;)

Cheese and chocolate are also my two favorite 'food groups'... but not MILK chocolate. I'm a dark chocoholic. lol

Rosie - posted on 09/09/2011

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i think people blow things out of proportion though. raw milk from grass fed animals is no more dangerous than vegetables or deli meat. in fact pasteruized milk is responsible for more illnesses than raw milk.http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/raw_milk_s... the government hasn't banned those. it really confuses me how at least MY government does things.

Caitlin - posted on 09/09/2011

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We drink milk (except my older daughter who is allergic of course). We LOVE our milk. Of course, I don't have to worry baout the hormone and anti-biotics here, and I make sure my cheeses are made with canadian milk so they are free of those nasty things too.

As for non homogonized milk - I haven't seen any but don't really care either way, pasteurized milk though in my mind is a must. Even though cows here are grass fed free roaming, I don't care, I want it pasteurized. If i lose a tiny bit of nutritional content, I don't really care that much, it's like buying imported vegetables in the winter IMO.. they aren't as good, but it's better than nothing.

Rosie - posted on 09/09/2011

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$4 a gallon??? i wish!!! that's how much i pay for half gallon grassfed. it's the same price as regular organic so it's a better deal still, but damn. i want cheaper milk, lol.

and yeah, sherri i have to pick and choose what i want. the milk and beef is important to me. chicken, while i'd love to get it is too much, so i usually buy the kind without antibiotics, but ocassionally have to buy regular chicken. i also buy organic veggies, but only certain ones. i'll get organic strawberries, apples ocassionally, and carrots all the time (they're super cheap organic). i'll get some things like broccali, and romaine as well, since it's pretty similarly priced to non organic. i look for sales, and sometimes the organic is cheaper than the regular.
it has increased my grocery bill, definitely. but like i said, we just dont' use as much meat, and i aways try to cut back in other areas as much as we can (which is super hard).

Krista - posted on 09/09/2011

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That's one thing that is nice about living in Canada -- we've banned milk from hormone-injected cows. It's just not an issue here. The milk brands available in my grocery store are all from regional dairy co-ops. So there are larger dairy farms around here, but none of the huge "factory" farms like what I read about.

As far as meat goes, all of our beef around here is grass-fed and local, but the chicken tends to be that grain-fed crap.

So as of late, we've been buying our meat from my husband's cousin, who runs an organic farm just a mile away from us. The meat is a little pricier (it's not like it ever goes on sale), but we've just cut down a bit on our portion size -- North Americans tend to have too-large portions of meat anyway. I drive past that farm every day on my way to work, and actually see the animals out grazing in the fresh air. It makes such a huge difference. The chicken we get there is AMAZING -- so flavourful and juicy. The pork is beyond description, and the lamb...oh my, the lamb.

So even if it means cutting back a tiny bit on meat and eating more veggies, I would urge everybody to consider getting local meat. It is so much healthier and SO much tastier.

Sherri - posted on 09/08/2011

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I know we live in the same state probably within 15-20mins from ea. other. We have different parenting styles but I don't have anything against her in anyway. We just are opposite on a lot of our views.

[deleted account]

I know you don't always (ever...lol) see eye to eye with Lisa Moreau, but I know you live close...right? I'm facebook friends with her and I believe she gets local meat, etc.

[deleted account]

Yeah, I don't buy organic 100%. Maybe that's the difference. I don't believe organic is always the best choice.



Just an example, before I did my research I was paying more than $4 for half gallon of organic ultra-pasteurized milk. My local grass-fed non-homogenize whole milk costs $4 a gallon. I believe that the milk I'm currently buying is healthier than the organic I was previously buying and it's half the price. (Used the example of milk to get us back on top...lol) Another example...meat. Organic meat...wowzers. I buy a local grass-fed cow and have it butchered every year. It's less than $4/lb. That's ground, steaks, roasts, everything. So much cheaper. And again, I believe it's healthier than the organic meat that I have no idea where it came from (organic is not necessarily grass-fed, it just has to have access to a pasture).

Katherine - posted on 09/08/2011

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We don't eat organic (althought I'd like to once we move) I have found that the farmers around here sell their meats at decent prices compared to the stores at the farmers markets

Sherri - posted on 09/08/2011

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I already cook everything or just about everything from scratch Sara. We are not gardeners and I have to admit will not be doing gardening. I only buy healthy fresh fruits, veggies, bare minimum of ever junk.

I was talking Sara about switching 100% to organic is probably 3-4x's my grocery bill and yes I know first hand I have done it. However when you jump from $1.99 a pd for ckn vs. $8 a pd or dbl the amt for organic fruits and veggies when you need at least 2lbs of meat for every meal there is no way to not have your grocery bill jump out of control. When I did this we jumped a good $100-$200 a wk.

[deleted account]

Last year I was focused on spending as little money as possible, because we were trying to get out of debt. Now that we're out of debt, my husband and I decided we'd focus on buying the best quality food for our family. Our grocery budget has not increased much...only $50/month more and that's mostly due to rising costs across the board. Giving your family the best food can be done on a budget. It just takes more work. We garden, we buy directly from farms, and I cook mostly from scratch. Before, I just got everything from the grocery store and didn't do a lot of scratch cooking.

Rosie - posted on 09/08/2011

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well, i know that. ;) i do know that we make less than $48,000 a year for a family of 5, and we manage to do it. i also think that the more people that do it, the less the prices would end up being.
i was trying to hint at that if her family switched to doing grassfed, they could still make money. :)

Sherri - posted on 09/08/2011

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To answer quite simply for cost and profit Dyan. Less cost, more profit. Which sadly then gets passed on to the public less cost, less cost to us even though it is subpar. Though most people can barely buy things on the shelves now at the prices they are, there is no way they could afford to pay much higher prices for healthier and better quality.

Rosie - posted on 09/08/2011

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i wholeheartedly agree that farmers that cater to the american public are not paid worth the weight, and i do agree that they are given a bad name, when they can't do anything about the situations they are in.
however- i know plenty of sucessful farmers that sell things locally. whether through farmers markets, or CSA, or buying clubs. i get all my meat from a local buying club. it's grassfed because that's important to me. grassfed animals are healthier themselves, which means they're healthier for me. they have more omega 3's, more CLA, less saturated fat, no antibiotics, and no hormones, and less incidences of e-coli because they aren't being fed grain which produces the acids in their stomach that e-coli thrive off of.

same for my dairy. it's from local farms that have less than 35 cows on the farm. they're grassfed, and have no need to be fed antibiotics, because they're not being fed things that kill them.

i'm sure that your family does as good as they can with what they've got, but honestly i don't understand grainfed cattle anymore. i have a hard time understanding why we do the things we do to our food when going back to how it's supposed to be raised is the simplest answer.

[deleted account]

I just saw the I misspelled money, but left it because I thought it would be a fun play on words lol :P

[deleted account]

Yes, I see your point Sara. The milk that his gets mixed with is put through the same tests so I don't feel like that's an issue. It is processed though. That's who we sell to. We can't afford to go through all the red tape and buy the equiptment needed to sell our own. I do find the whole dairy industry sad though. My family sells to a brand that we could never afford to buy. That's messed up to me. If they sold that brand where I live I would buy it now. Last I heard my dad is behind 3 paychecks because he has to put the mooney back into the farm. I honestly don't know why anyone would want to be a farmer. You never get days off, ever. The pay is terrible and the world takes what you do for granted. It's so frustrating.

[deleted account]

Well ask away! I do not have all the answers, but I have been reading up on this topic a lot lately.

Katherine - posted on 09/08/2011

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true i new it lived in deli meat (thats one reason we don't eat it in my house) and the raw veggies we ALWAYs wash...to help remove it, but you can't wash milk thats why i asked lol

Thank you for informing me sara

Katherine - posted on 09/08/2011

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I'm just wondering, while pregnant you'r not allowed/supposed to eat/injest un pasturized things (apple juice, milk etc) as it may contain lysteria, aren't you concerned about getting that from the unpasturized milk?? and if your pregnant, aren't you concerned about drinking unpasturized milk and risking your babes life??

[deleted account]

I was wondering when you'd show up. ;)

Oh, I'm sure there are many doing it 'right.' My extended family on my dad's side are all dairy farmers. Their cows are named pets and well taken care of.

But then the milk truck comes and picks up their milk and mixes it with cows from who knows where and they do all kinds of processing to it.

I prefer to buy from a small farm where I KNOW exactly what the farmer is doing. And it's not possible hormones that are concerning (for me anyway). As said before, it's the processing that I'm concerned with.

I can easily find organic milk, which sounds good...but all organic means is 'access to pasture' and it could still be grain fed. Also, most organic milk is ultra-pasteurized...and I'd like the least amount of pasteurization possible. Ultra-pasteurized organic milk pretty much has no nutritional value.

I'm sure your family does things right Sara. It's not the farmer I have a problem with. It's this crazy society that seems to have it backwards when it comes to food that I have a problem with.

I hope I sounded coherent. I feel like I'm babbling.

[deleted account]

"yeah, the things we do to our food makes me want to cry. we have all these animals living in crappy conditions, so we pump them full of antibiotics and give them hormones to produce more to get more for our buck. -instead of just giving them grass, and having less animals on the farm which would eliminate all of that."

That's the type of comment that annoys me. You have *no idea* what farmers are doing. I haven't found a brand that has hormone filled cow's milk in it. Because the dairy industry knows this is a big deal they put right on the label that they don't use milk from cow's that have been treated with hormones. My dad had to sign legal documents stating that he does not give his cow's hormones (not that he wants to) and his milk is tested every time they come to pick it up. There are still small farms out there and it's unfortunate that people think that all farmers are doing these things.

When we ran out of milk from the store we used to go down to the barn and get some. We were able to sell it a long time ago, but like others said that's now illegal. Oh that stuff was thick, but it was good.

[deleted account]

Really? Mine doesn't go bad that quickly. I bought a gallon last week and the expiration date is sept. 9. Still tastes and smells good.

Rosie - posted on 09/07/2011

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it expires fast jenni. 3 days is the shelf life. just so you know. :)

Jenni - posted on 09/07/2011

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That's the only thing I really miss it for! My cereal. ;) I love cereal! If I do try the 'non-homogenized' kind, I'd probably just get a small carton for my cereal. I'm going to research it a bit first though.

Rosie - posted on 09/07/2011

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OMG sara, the kind i get tastes like chocolate pudding. it's so friggin good!

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