Homosexual Parents

Jaime - posted on 07/19/2010

Likewise Mae, I enjoyed our debate...and it's never my intention to change your opinion or view, simply to present another viewpoint and perhaps some more information that might not otherwise be known about a certain topic.

Mae - posted on 07/19/2010

I do understand you issue with religion in debate and it does make sense. I also read about the history of the nuclear family and I agree with pretty much everything that you have said and if I leave religion out of the debate then I not only longer have a shorter post :) but I have no other aversion to the homosexual issue but that doesn't mean that you have changed opinion on my religion.:) By the by it has been fun "arguing" with you.

Jaime - posted on 07/19/2010

You are correct Mae, I am an atheist. I take no issue with personal beliefs. However, I question when God speak and religious idealism is brought into a debate. Man wrote the Bible.



In my opinion, the Bible has set such a skewed precedent for what is normal vs. what is abnormal, what is right vs. what is wrong, what is good vs. what is bad or evil. All of which should be subjectively viewed. Intolerance is bred from the misunderstanding that everything either is or is not. Someone is either heterosexual or they are homosexual--not true. Most people fall somewhere in betweeen...90% of the world population to be exact. Which means that exclusive heterosexuality and exclusive homosexuality are rare...and in a sense NOT normal. But somehow we have come to view them as the norm, despite the fact that only 10% of the world population occupy these ends of the continuum. It is suggested (and I'm not certain of the exact information) that the nuclear family is a post-war effort to boost the economy following industrialization. A throwback to the traditional gender roles as being financially viable when thrown together in a family unit. Essentially, the West needed to increase the population and support the growth of capitalism.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_fam...

Mae - posted on 07/19/2010

I respect your opinion and from reading your posts you seem to have a knowlege of what your talking about which is admirable since many people don't take the time to educate themselves. I don't want to assume anything but it seems that you aren't christian if I am wrong please correct me so if you aren't Christian then why should if matter if I being a Christian believing in "the Invisable man in the sky" as someone put, think that its a sin and have admitted that I myself am a sinner as well. I sit in judgement of no one I'm answering the question asked according to my belief system. (please understand that I am being sincere here)

Jaime - posted on 07/19/2010

It's just that, for "all things being equal", religion seems to lack the understanding as to what equal actually means. Homosexuality is no more a sin than heterosexuality is the 'way God intended it to be'

Mae - posted on 07/19/2010

If you read my post I don't think that a nuclear family should get preferance over a homosexual couple just because they are heterosexual I think they should have to be better parents than the homosexual couple but I also don't think that homosexuality is right I think that it is a sin against god just like all other sins lying, gluttony, lust, ect. I know that I have been guilty of at least one of these sins at least once and no one has denied me the right to be a parent. Let me try to explain it this way:
Homosexaulity is a sin according to bible(1 Corinthians 6:9-11 ESV Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.) but the bible doesn't ever put a degree on sin. Meaning that some one being homosexual isn't graded by God as being worse than me being an heterosexual drunkard. To answer your question it doesn't have to be one or the other I can feel that homosexual couples are sinning but no more than a heterosexual couple shacking up before being married and that doesn't matter when you go to grow you family if it be through birth oor adoption. I think that like all sins the only ones that need to be concern with it is God and the people commiting the sin, and since most of the homosexuals that I know personally are not christian the bible saying that they are sinning probably doesn't matter to them.

Jaime - posted on 07/19/2010

"I don't believe that homosexuallity is right but that is my religous belief"

"All things being equal I think that homosexuality shouldn't matter."

So...which is it then?

Mae - posted on 07/18/2010

I don't believe that homosexuallity is right but that is my religous belief but I don't think that just because they are homosexual that they will be bad parents. I know that other christians may not agree with me and that is fine I will answer to God over this: I would rather see a child go to homosexual couple who's only major sin is being homosexual then to see a child go to a Nuclear family who parents beat them, are alcoholics, or otherwise abuse the child. I agree that just because they are gay doesn't mean that they should be given preferance either. All things being equal I think that homosexuality shouldn't matter.



I like a debate as much as anyone but the rude remarks on both sides are not nice.

Jaime - posted on 07/13/2010

Well I'm coming to you from now on when I have questions Jen...I should probably give the book a read though.

Chatty - posted on 07/13/2010

God schmod! ;)

Jen - posted on 07/13/2010

Oh Jamie, I've read the Bible cover-to-cover in multiple translations. Trust me, reading it is easy and you'll learn A LOT! Just not what the Christians think you'll learn. For example, Noah got completely drunk and passed out naked in his tent after the flood went away. His one son Ham walked in, saw Dad naked. Went out immediately and told his brothers, "Hey guys, Dad's passed out drunk and naked." They all went in but the other 2 avertd their eyes and covered him up. When Noah sobered up, he was angry at Ham who was then cursed by Yahweh and his descendents were cursed forever as well. This is the story that many white slave owners in the US used to justify slavery by saying blacks were descendents of Ham, therefore cursed and deserved slavery.

I got a ton of these tales.

Jaime - posted on 07/13/2010

lol...I have to confess that I wiki'd that reference Jen. I don't know a lot about the Bible, just the basics really. Interesting family dynamic there between Lot and his daughters who incidentally became his baby mamas.

Jen - posted on 07/13/2010

Let's not forget Lot and his daughters.

Jen - posted on 07/13/2010

I hate bumper sticker logic. sigh..

Jaime - posted on 07/13/2010

Hold on, hold on, hold on...okay, so God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, but he's cool with Eve having sexual relations with her sons? What in the effity eff? If I'm wrong about that someone please explain how Adam and Eve succeeded in creating an entire population of people without some form of incest? Did the stork really start dropping babies off at garden gate...all these years I thought my parents were so full of shit telling me the stork brought me to them. Well I'll just have to go and apologize for my ignorance then!

How about we take a moment to consider that heterosexuality and homosexuality are both completely natural. I fully believe that at the core of humanity there exists a concept of 'balance' whereby we instinctively understand what needs to be done so that we can co-exist on Earth. There always seems to be a debate about whether or not being gay is a choice...and if it truly is a choice to be homosexual, then being heterosexual is the other choice. With only 10% of the Earth's population being exclusively gay or exclusively straight that leaves 90% somewhere in the middle...that means almost all of the people on this thread are in the middle. Just accept that you have crazy sex dreams and move on!

Krista - posted on 07/13/2010

Besides, we don't know for sure that there is a God or that he/she/it made human beings.

So to deny happiness to an entire segment of people just because you believe that your invisible sky person is against it?

Not cool.

Toni - posted on 07/13/2010

Stephanie your 'argument' is flawed there are many animals who have demonstrated homosexual tendancies, therefore as Christians feel that animals follow their natural instincts how can you explain that? Homosexuality is as natural as heterosexuality!

Toni - posted on 07/13/2010

Well actually God did create Adam and Steve because God created everything. I know a bloke named Steve and I married Adam so there it is ;-)

Heather - posted on 07/13/2010

Jamie, dont you know...God made Adam and Eve...not Adam and Steve. I cant tell you how many times I have heard this from my homophobic christian family! SAD!

Jaime - posted on 07/12/2010

Well that solves the mystery then! God made a man and a woman for a reason and that is why being gay is wrong! And here I thought I was going to go through life never truly knowing why God made a man AND a woman...thanks for clearing that up Stephanie! Pfffft...let me just reel in that cloud you're standing on there...okay so, to recap a man is capable of producing sperm and a woman is capable of producing an egg to be fertilized by sperm...BUT, not all men can produce viable sperm and not all women can produce viable eggs for fertilization...so what was God's reason for creating them? Pretty little earth decorations? Me thinks that logic is a bit skewed.

Stephanie Jo - posted on 07/12/2010

I am against it.God made a man and a woman for a reason.

Toni - posted on 07/12/2010

Jaime so right how could I be so stupid - what was I thinking yeah radioactive ROFL

Jaime - posted on 07/11/2010

Well quit havin' a life Jen and get onto CoM! Jebus!

Jen - posted on 07/11/2010

Aw geez Jamie, I miss out on all the fun!

Jaime - posted on 07/11/2010

Toni's lying...a nuclear family consists of a radioactive mom, dad and kidlets that run around touching things and making them come to life and they can't be near kryptonite or their hair will fall out, but they can shoot lazer beams at each other and grow third eyes and cool stuff like that...DUH! LOL

Toni - posted on 07/11/2010

Amy - a nuclear family is a family which consists of a mum, a dad and their children living together in the family home - so the traditional view of a family really.

Amy - posted on 07/11/2010

I say let them have Kids & Dogs, woohoo!! Oh and dont forget the cat!

I have more than one homosexual relative (my brother being one of the relative, who I love dealry), my husbands boss is homosexual and I think they would be better parents than most of the straight people I know. It is astounding that in this day and age that this type of hypocricy still exists. Stop judging on the sex and outward appearance of people and start getting to know the person, then and only then can you form an opinion on whether or not someone is capable of raising a family. Stop the bigotry and grow as a person.

BTW, WTF is a nuclear family lol?

Chatty - posted on 07/10/2010

WOW! This was a fun read!...

Homosexual/heterosexual.....same shit! People are fuckin people....WE'RE ALL HUMAN BEINGS FIRST!

Jessica - posted on 07/09/2010

I am all for Gay Adoptions. The couple should be examined just as any other couple is prior to being able to adopt. How could loving parents be harmful to a baby?

Kimberly - posted on 07/08/2010

I'm thinking that kids are taught to be racist, and if they are the ones teasing others kids about this then there parents are the problems not them. And who's to say that ppl will know right away if there parents are gay or not. Anyways Loureen pretty much is saying what I feel too, so go Loureen..lol. =)

Geralyn - posted on 07/06/2010

I am so sick of having our young people - teens and 20s - feel so badly about themselves in our society because of who they love. So many teenagers and young adults suffer from depression, rejection especially from family and loved ones but society at large, etc. and many attempt if not succeed at suicide.... Our society is so discriminatory against anyone who is different. Who said that we are all supposed to be the same? Leave people alone to find their happiness... and if its to have a child or children, so be it.... Don't worry about the effects on their children of growing up with a gay parent. Worry about yourself and the effects of hatred against others on how your children will be raised to perpetuate hatred.

Jaime - posted on 07/06/2010

I just want to throw this out there...the concept of a minority (in NA) is specific to the restrictive societal ideals that have long since determined 'normal'. It's not abnormal for someone to be gay, anymore than it's abnormal for someone to be caucasian or dark-skinned. Minority groups will always face adversity when they go up against the mass mind-frame...but it doesn't lend any credibility to the mass mind-frame as a result. Consequently, as this thread proves, what ends up happening is a staunch protest against the ridiculous moral compass on which society is hinged and desperately needs to become unhinged.

Toni - posted on 07/06/2010

Lyndsay that is the point you don't feel the same way about black people or other minority groups although some children from these minority groups still get bullied and picked on due to the fact they are minority groups yet you would never suggest to a black couple or mixed race couple not to have children because their children may be persecuted yet somehow you feel it is ok to suggest this to homosexuals.

Katchya - posted on 07/06/2010

I personal promote it! Love comes form the heart. In my experiences they want children more the people who just pop them out. They tend to over compensate and give that love 100 fold over to that child. I would rather see 2 people who have love in their hearts get a child then some people who don't. Its about love and nothing more!

Lyndsay - posted on 07/06/2010

This is only partially related to this conversation... but I just want to share a thought here. In North America (don't know about anywhere else), I don't really think that blacks are a minority anymore. Maybe once, but every where I have travelled in the United States, I've seen just as many black people as white people. People keep exchanging minority groups (ie: blacks) with homosexuals and assuming that we feel the same way about both. (eg. someone asked me if I would tell a coloured couple not to have kids because they might get picked on). I just wanted to suggest that black people are largely represented in North America, and really are no longer a minority.. so this logic doesn't really fit.

(ps: I live in Ontario, and we have so many of everything... blacks, Asians, Middle-Eastern, etc.. I sometimes feel like whites are becoming the minority)

Toni - posted on 07/06/2010

Susanne seriously if lesbians were normal - they are normal! This statement alone demonstrates that you do indeed have a problem with LGB people. Why should their biological desires be any less than a hetero persons being attracted to the same sex does not change the fact that you function as a normal human being and so the desire to have children will be the same.

You are suggesting that until homosexuality is fully accepted in society they should not have children - so in this logic multi-racial couples should not have children as there are still racists out there so it is not fully socially acceptable and their children may get bullied! But of course without people ignoring the fact that white bigots feel they should not have the right to have children we would not be where we are today with the acceptance of mixed race families (mine being one my great great grandad came to the UK after slave trade was abolished in the US). Instead of saying LGB couples should not have children let's educate the intolerant in schools because ultimately this is the only way forward!

Jaime - posted on 07/06/2010

So we are well aware that homosexuality is not yet fully socially acceptable and the only way to make it that way is to pretend that it doesn't exist? People should wait to have children until their sexual orientation is fully accepted by society in order to prevent bullying? I don't think any gay parent knowingly puts their child at risk for ridicule and bullying...I think they genuinely want to have a child and are willing to love and care for their child against any form of adversity. Bullying is a result of ignorance and often emotional deficiencies on the part of the bully...punishing a bully is merely reactive to a situation we are readily aware of and have the ability to change. Being proactive and instilling a sense of empathy for diversity is probably a better solution than to suggest that gay people not have kids because they aren't normal and can't possibly be good parents according to societal ideals! GAH, I need to bang my head on the computer desk for a while...

Susanne - posted on 07/06/2010

Of course they should be punished that goes without saying. My point is that I as a mother would put my kids first and would not put them in a position that they would be bullied. I spent my whole school life being bullied and have had to watch my son go through four years of it in school and i wouldnt knowingly subject a child to that. In my area if i decided to become a lesbian tomorrow my kids would be bullied definately. No parent worth anything would put their own needs above that of a child in my opinion whether they are gay, straight or whatever. If being homosexual was socially acceptable everywhere in the world then i say great, im sure they would make brilliant parents but the world isnt like that yet. The only reason i butted in on this convo was because everyone was bashing Lyndsey for having the same feelings, im not going to comment anymore because i know how these convos end.

Jen - posted on 07/06/2010

It's not any different than a biracial child being abused by her peers because her parents are not the same as their own. I notice you do not suggest at any point that the children doing the attacking be punished. Only the people who you say should not be allowed to have children.

Susanne - posted on 07/06/2010

Im not talking about colour and thats a completely different subject. Good people sacrificing their right to have kids? What about a childs right not to be a subject of bullying? I have no problem with gay people i just dont think they should drag kids into the equation until we do live in a world where it is considered normal and acceptable.

Jen - posted on 07/06/2010

Loureen, you made my point much better than I did. Well said.

Jen - posted on 07/06/2010

In my never humble opinion it's no different than biracial couples having children despite the fact that they may come against discrimination and violence. I would ask if you have the same opinion on black families having children in areas historically known to be highly racially divided with known violent streaks?

Charlie - posted on 07/06/2010

Susanne ,
where i come from i was the ONLY child of color in my school , i was teased and bashed , i suffered everyday well into high school until perception on race changed , your same logic could apply to me , i find the fact you would deny a person their right to be a parent to keep ignorant , bigoted people happy incredibly shallow .

Why should good people have to sacrifice so that homophobic people can stay in their comfortable little world of hate .

Im not even going to touch on the fact that you say lesbians are not normal , that in itself is an ignorant statement .

Perhaps homophobes and all their other equally hateful counterparts should do the rest of the world a favor and stop having kids , passing on their ideals is IMO selfish .

Susanne - posted on 07/06/2010

As i said it all depends on where you live where i come from a child with gay parents would get beaten up every day in school how can any parent want to put their kids through that?

Teash - posted on 07/05/2010

Hi Toni.
My Name is Teash, I am 24 and I agree with you, I have found that older generations do not understand because back then they were not allowed to understand. Homosexuality was wrong to them. I think its up to the current generation to teach our children that we as people have a choice and a right to be who we really are hopefully in turn that will change the next generation into being more understanding and not affraid. I have found over the past few years that I am meeting more and more people that have been married and had kids, kids grow up then mum or Dad realise their sexuality is in fact not straight and there children and spouses are understanding. I do believe this is because slowly we are becoming more understanding and accepting to what once was 'different or wrong'!

Johnny - posted on 07/05/2010

"I know a man who left his wife and kids for another man and the poor kids had to change schools it was so bad."

And it would have been so much better if he'd left his wife for another woman?? This truly truly boggles me.

Perhaps people who are clearly so concerned about the suffering of the children of gay people should do a little actual research into how those children feel about their own lives. I've known several people who were raised by same-sex parents, and their lives were definitely not "hell". But I know that nothing that is said here supporting same-sex couples or individuals will change the minds of people who are determined to be bigoted.

Amber - posted on 07/05/2010

Wait...Susanne..did you just say that if lesbians were normal they would be with men? haha Oh my.
Who decides what is normal? Less than 100 years ago it was not "normal" for blacks and whites to be together, it was illegal (at least in the US). Now it's common.
So, obviously "normal" is a subjective term that changes with time. Maybe it's time for a NEW normal. Where ALL people can be happy, healthy, loving, and have a true family without others trying to strip them of their rights.

Jaime - posted on 07/05/2010

No kidding...I mean do people actually have that much of a superiority complex to be able to suggest that two men or two women can't possibly raise a normal, healthy child because their union isn't normal? Oh, and who decided what normal was again....oh ya, it was the totalitarian hierarchies of our past that we can't seem to let go of!

Jen - posted on 07/05/2010

And naturally the bad behavior of the children was the fault of the gay father - not the crap taught to them by their parents. I always am astounded when mob mentality/brutality is defended and the victim is blamed.

Jaime - posted on 07/05/2010

GAH! You just go on living in your bubble then...I'm not even going to bother because it's not worth the time it will take to dissect that asinine logic.