Internet Trash Talk

?? - posted on 02/19/2010 ( 52 moms have responded )

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There have been quite a few 'pages' on Facebook that have made the news or the gossip trail in recently times that have been very controversial. There are pages made for people to join who "hate" 1 particular person. There have been pages made for people to join that directly call out 1 particular person. There was recently a facebook page that was so abusive, the parents of the person being targetted took legal action against the person that started the page.

I will admit, I don't remember the exact names of the pages, but I do remember seeing them. And now there is this one that recently came to my attention after someone joined the page...

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/pages/The-guy-who-did-this-to-his-sister/313156297487

And this is what "the guy did to his sister" :

http://mcsavage.wordpress.com/2010/01/08...

Long story short -- this boy was grounded for an incredibly long time for hiding beer in his room, his sister tattled on him, and he took revenge by searching her room and finding this note, posting it on Facebook and tagging all of the people in the note.


There have also been cases of MySpace, Twitter, Facebook where people are bullied, harassed and demonized with the various applications available.

Do you think that these groups, these pages, these different networking sites are in part to blame for "Internet Trash Talk" and bullying? Do you think that the bullying would happen regardless of whether these people had Facebook to post those notes on? What are your thoughts on cyber harassment and bullying?


* Note - this topic isn't meant as a debate - specifically. Parenting Debates & Hot Topics -- this is more of a hot topic than a debate, I'd rather a discussion than a debate with this particular topic :)

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Shelby - posted on 02/21/2010

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I personally think that is stretching it a bit far. Mom and Dad need to handle this one. They've got two teenagers...One drinking and one having "AT LEAST" oral sex with numerous partners...They've got plenty of problems without worrying about trying to get a far fetched lawsuit to stick.

Isobel - posted on 02/23/2010

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I am in business school (majoring in marketing) we have spend a lot of time discussing ethics, and it is generally accepted that when you embark on a marketing campaign that changes the nature of people's social activities you ARE responsible for the untintended consequences that come along with it (you need to accept the bad along with the good).

Just like Nestle WAS responsible for all of the thousands of babies that died in Africa when they told women there that formula feeding was healthier for their babies than breastfeeding (due to the fact that many of the communities did not have access to clean water to make the formula and clean the bottles).

I don't know if you believe that facebook is provided to us for free out of the kindness of their hearts or if you are aware of just how much money they make by bringing all of these people to one place, compiling a very valuable and comprehensive database of personal information, and providing personalized advertising that is BASED on all the activities that we take part in.

WE would not pay...the advertisers would pay. And YES I believe that MANY online sites should provide a service in which anybody could request that information about them could be removed...it would not be expensive...it would not even be difficult.

If I owned a newspaper and I allowed somebody to buy space and use it to attack another person and ruin their futures (not just high school but her future CAREER and relationships) I would be complicite in the crime...facebook is no different.

Isobel - posted on 02/22/2010

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anyhoo...no, shockingly, I do not believe that the ENTIRE internet needs to be shut down. I believe that there need to be new laws put into place...I believe that security features need to be tightened up...I do NOT believe that children should be allowed to run amok on the internet...I believe that facebook and google and a whole bunch of other sites need to be responsible for finding and removing abusive posts.

Computer programs are pretty amazing these days, you can find just about anything you want (not on personal computer hard drives, but on the internet itself, where employers and future husbands may look)...tell me, why exactly should these companies not be responsible for removing it?

Sharon - posted on 02/20/2010

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Ok in the case of the boy who did THIS to his sister... he was over the top, he should have given the paper to his parents if he wanted to be "fair".

He possibly ruined her life when she ruined/saved his for 3 months.

Its also possible he's destroyed any family link between them because addiction to beer is just that strong.

Granted it sounds like they are both filling their lives with the wrong things.

Yes he should be held responsible. By who? I'm not sure. What should the punishment be? I'm not sure.

This conversation has been closed to further comments

52 Comments

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Melissa - posted on 02/23/2010

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Thanks Stephanie, and i agree with everything in your previous post. This particular incident was just immature and a little funny(LOL). There is so much worse on the net out there, that people and programs have to take care of and get off the internet. This is pale in comparison to what is out there.

Stephanie - posted on 02/23/2010

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I was thinking about this today...If there wasnt internet, what do you think the boy would have done finding that note..I think he would probably go and make tons of copies and pass them out all over school or the community. Is it then the copiers fault because they provided the service that allowed the brother to 'bully' his sister....

I dont know..just something I was thinking while I was changing a diaper LOL

I do have compassion but I dont know why I just dont think it is considered internet bully case. I am not really even sure there is a clear definition of what that is...when you see the shows on tv it is alwasy about nasty email, defaming charater and constant trash talk and lies that other plp or a person has made up about another. To me in this case it is actaul truth that the sister wrote this information down and the brother just posted it. It totally sucks and is totally wrong and I cant say how or what I would do in that instance but I would def buy my brother beer after that ahahahha sorry if I seemed insensative...I grew up with 4 brothers so you gotta have tough skin esp. if you gonna play the game.

Crap follows you every where not matter what you do good, bad or inbetween. If a job was to not hire her because of her sex list when she was in high school seems a little rediculous....I think that would be discrimination as I see it.

Isobel - posted on 02/23/2010

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it's not like they need a "person" to search all day every day... I'm sure it would be a pretty simple program to create. I think I just found my million dollar idea ;P

Isobel - posted on 02/23/2010

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right...facebook can't stop it from being posted...they can sure as hell remove it...in ALL it's forms as long as it is on-line. (and that goes for google, yahoo, msn, and whoever else provides a service that includes the creation of content)



nobody would be able to sue if facebook (and everybody else) just created a registry which you could sign up for that explicitly denies permission for anybody to use your name without permission...kinda like the no-call list for telemarketers.

Shelby - posted on 02/23/2010

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"If I owned a newspaper and I allowed somebody to buy space and use it to attack another person and ruin their futures (not just high school but her future CAREER and relationships) I would be complicite in the crime...facebook is no different."



The big difference here is if you ran a newspaper, You accepted money for someone to run a ad that you pre-approved...You knew without a doubt what you are printing, and in that case should be liable. In this case however, Facebook does not immediately approve everything we post on our pages. Complaints have to be made.

I dont' believe that anyone is naive enough to believe that the creator of Facebook is not making a KILLING off of advertising and such. I just think its more frivolous lawsuits. People sue on a whim when they don't use common sense, and they lose control of their own lives.



Also does anybody know if the original page that her brother made is still up? Because if not then more than likely FB removed that. The address at the top of this thread is not the original page that was made. As I said before snap shots of this page has been made and could be anywhere.

Penny - posted on 02/23/2010

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Jodi- Facebook do take action. When someone used my name in a degrading untrue post on their page. A mutual friend informed me, I then reported it to Facebook. Who then contacted this person with a warning threatening to ban their account from facebook. If they mentioned my name in a post again. So I know from personal experience that they do act when you report things.

[deleted account]

I still don't get how this whole thing is Facebook's fault? To me it's like blaming the messenger. How about placing the blame where it really belongs - on the parents. Blame the parents for not knowing what their kids are up to. Blame the sister for being dumb enough to write a list like that. Blame the brother for being childish enough to post it on the internet.



Is the sister's life ruined? Maybe, maybe not. If she's really been doing what it says on that list, then chances are her school already knows she's a bit of a tramp and were talking about her behind her back anyway. As for he future, I hope any boss who may google it will realise that it was a childish act pulled by her brother.



If this list had fallen out of the girls notebook and somebody found it and passed it around, who's fault would it be then? If you don't want people finding out stuff like that, don't write it down. Better yet, don't do it.

Shelby - posted on 02/23/2010

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I was addressing Laura's post...Her exact words were as followed...

"..I believe that facebook and google and a whole bunch of other sites need to be responsible for finding and removing abusive posts.

Computer programs are pretty amazing these days, you can find just about anything you want (not on personal computer hard drives, but on the internet itself, where employers and future husbands may look)...tell me, why exactly should these companies not be responsible for removing it?"

I was simply answering her question based on my opinion of it. Personally as long as people keep copying it and posting it, It will not only keep reappearing, but will also jump from site to site. My bet, says its also on MySpace, and Twitter by now.

Jodi - posted on 02/23/2010

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Shelby, I don't think anyone is saying it is Facebook's responsibility to track it all down and remove it. I think, however, that if it is reported to Facebook as inappropriate, however, they SHOULD take it down. So if someone is asking them ro remove particular pages, etc, then they should be help accountable if they make the decision to do nothing.

So in my opinion, you are right in saying that it is not entirely their responsibility, in fact, not at all initially, but they should be held accountable if they become aware of something inappropriate (ie. it was brought to their attention) and they did nothing.

Dana - posted on 02/23/2010

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Stephanie, it would still be wrong if it was reversed. I also don't get why people keep saying it's only the brother getting back at a sister. Yes, he's her brother who started it, does that make it NOT mean or not Internet bullying? No. There also are other people commenting on it, calling her names. I'm sure it didn't end there, I'm sure it was taken farther in school and her to FB page.



The total lack of intelligence on this one is astounding to me, not to mention the lack of compassion.

Shelby - posted on 02/23/2010

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Why is it facebook's job to remove it? Do you pay them to do it? I know I don't. If we were on a site that we paid for some sort of sense of security then by all means I expect something in return. There is junk like this all over the internet. And the truth of the matter is...Sucks to be her. Is that harsh...Yeah it is. What can be done about it. The page that I looked at from the address provided above is a snapshot of an entire FB homepage, Its not the actual "dirty list" itself. This page could have came from anyone...So is facebook supposed to track down everyone who took a snapshot of that homepage? EVERYONE that girl knows has already seen it... Its not an ideal situation but people lets get real here. When we are irresponsible as parents and raise irresponsible children...These are the kinds of things that will happen. We can't run around blaming everyone else. Is a good portion of her life ruined? Yeah it is. At least high school, And probably college unless she goes away to a larger 4year school. Her brother is a total tool. Dirtbag. However Facebook. Not to blame. This is a service offered to us for free. It doesn't have to be here. Would you all still use it if there was a charge attached to it? With that charge comes more security....So that would be a benefit. I personally wouldn't. I would simply switch to the next free one.
Personally IN MY OPINION (I'm stating that because I'm noticing that more and more on here its becoming quite clear that we are only allowed to have the "popular" opinion) We are quick to lay the blame on where ever is easiest. Facebook had nothing to do with the fact that this dipshit loser had alcohol in his room..His mom needed to know. And Facebook surely didn't buy the beer for him, Where did that come from, To me thats a bigger problem. And facebook surely has nothing to do with the fact that girl had that many penises in her mouth at her age. I think the real problems should be discussed.

Isobel - posted on 02/22/2010

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I never said it wasn't funny...cause as a sister with an older brother, believe me I get it.

It's also incredibly damaging to the rest of this girl's life.

Stephanie - posted on 02/22/2010

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Dont worry Melissa I think it is funny too!! Wrong probably, sad for the teens yes..do their parents have a lot of issues to work through YES...do I think it is internet bully NO...its a brother getting back at his sister in the meanest way he knows how. Like other ssaid if it wasnt the internet it would be a bulletin board or gossip. My spin is what if this was a sister getting back at a brother? What if the sister posted her brothers 'sex' list...what would it be then? Wouldnt he be the hero for his conquests?

Dana - posted on 02/22/2010

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Yeah, whatever. Happy to move on. :)

Melissa Stewart

yesterday, 8:11 pm I think this is funny myself, and feel people are responsible for their own actions




Btw, it's called debating.

Melissa - posted on 02/22/2010

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Where are you getting this from my view on the OP was that it was funny and not really internet bullying. Some agree with me that its not internet bullying, some dont. Thats fine, im putting my opinion on the original question asked then you come on here critisizing my question, i think you going too far and going completely off topic of the OP. We dont agree, so move on.

Dana - posted on 02/22/2010

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Lol, okay I did say that. That I was referring to your over all posts, most notably the one where you say it's funny.



I do think you're jumping pretty far when you ask if people want to ban the Internet because they disagree with your view.

Melissa - posted on 02/22/2010

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"Your extreme views boggle me"

guess i misread that part. Re read your post. I didn't jump to that conclusion, i asked a question thats why there is a question mark. The reason i ask is because people keep saying her life is ruined forever, and if she gets a job her boss will google this, and once its the net its there forever etc. When will people see that the brother is responsible.

Dana - posted on 02/22/2010

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I didn't say extreme view, I said extreme post. All of a sudden you're saying

So i guess the internet should just be banned all together, if it wasn't facebook, then it would be something else. Is that what your all suggesting?
That's an extreme conclusion to jump to.

Shelby - posted on 02/22/2010

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I don't think either that this is the greatest example of internet bullying...however it is obviously a good debate topic obviously 2 sides here. Each have their own opinion.

Melissa - posted on 02/22/2010

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Which extreme view are you talking about. I asked if thats what people want, I mean someone else actually thinks FB should be charged for plagerism now thats extreme. . As for my age, im 28, this is a debate so of course people are going disagree. I dont think this example is interenet bullying, you do, so why is my view extreme and not yours?

Dana - posted on 02/22/2010

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Wow, what's up with the extreme post? Is this what happens when one side of a debate runs into a wall? Because we don't agree with you, Melissa, that equates to us all wanting a ban on the internet?



Now someone can't write down their feelings or actions in a PRIVATE book unless they don't mind someone posting it all over the internet? Your extreme views boggle me. Truly and I mean this in the nicest way because I am truly curious, how old are you?

Melissa - posted on 02/22/2010

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So i guess the internet should just be banned all together, if it wasn't facebook, then it would be something else. Is that what your all suggesting? I mean if you feel that strongly about the internet then why are you using it? What if you write something on here and someone uses it against you, aren't you worried about that? Its not facebook, its the internet in general. So what would you all do if the internet was shut down, your using it right now.Frankly they're both a couple of screwed up teens right now, who need help, as far as a boss googling her, i dont think he'll not hire her because she had sex as a teen. There is worse internet bullying going out there than this. This situation probably wasn't the best example of internet bullying. The way i see it, is if you document something whether it be video or writing etc. you take the chance of people finding out. If she is embarassed about her own actions, she shouldn't have written them down.

Heather - posted on 02/21/2010

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Laura, what you just said is true, and a very good point! Once its on the internet, its there forever, for ANYONE to see.
Dont we all know someone who was damaged by a bully in school? Many of these people move on to adulthood, and NEVER get over it! Sibling bullying happens all the time and can be just as bad or worse than bullying from just random people in school. My future MIL is in her late 40's, and still to this day has not gotten over being bullied by her brother...its abuse, and it is NEVER ok in my book.

Isobel - posted on 02/21/2010

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here's the difference (and this is where facebook's responsibility comes into play)...10 years from now that girl is going to want to start her career...and when she does, her potential boss is going to "google" her. And when that boss googles her...this is going to come up.

It's not the same, this WILL affect her forever. And there is nothing she can do about it. She can't run around town and take all the photocopies down and minimize the damage, she can't stop people who were tagged from sending it to EVERYONE they know. It's really really sad. AND I will agree with somebody who noted that it appears that there is something going on in that family that she is THAT active and her brother is THAT upset about losing his beer.

Melissa - posted on 02/21/2010

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I agree Shelby the parents should really be dealing with this and taking care of their children, then trying to find someone to blame for them looking stupid. People around the world wouldn't even know about this if they had let it alone. But maybe they're parents are the real problems, why is he drinking and why is she screwing around? Maybe we should be more concerned with that, then who is right or wrong.

Sharon - posted on 02/21/2010

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Technically he broke laws.



He broke laws. He STOLE from his sister. He admits to going into her room and stealing from her. He posted something she wrote without her permission.



Legally - facebook is hosting plagiarism and can & should be held liable.

Dana - posted on 02/21/2010

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No, neither of them are right in this and this one just one example of many when it comes to Internet bullying.

Melissa - posted on 02/21/2010

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i watch the news too, and i know people get carried away over bullying, this situation was just a stupid brother getting back at his sister, in my opinion, not bullying. Ive seen some pretty bad bullying growing up, and teasing, and fights. No one ever pulled a Columbine at my school. I highly doubt anyone will want her dead for having sex. Im only responding to the question asked and this was the example given, and whether or not facebook should be held responsible. Thats what i answered. Vandalism and death threats aren't funny, but that was never mentioned in this case. I think the whole thing that happened is stupid, her tattling(which i quarentee she did out of revenge for something), then him embarassing her for revenge. Its sibling rivalry, neither one of them are right in this.

Melissa - posted on 02/21/2010

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Well i guess i live in a sheltered world, because people dont go that crazy over a stupid list. She had sex, as if half the people in her high school haven't. Crap like that went through my high school, and honestly nobody really cares. If you dont want people to know your personal business you dont tell anyone, and certainly dont put it writing. But if people do take this particular situation that far, then they obviously have bigger problems.

Dana - posted on 02/21/2010

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No it's not only if they let it. With some of these stories, the fall out lasts for years. People's houses are vandalized, there are death threats made etc...

Melissa - posted on 02/21/2010

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Only if they let it. Hey i had rumors spread about me in high school, thats a part of high school(Gossip) I could care less what people thought of me, cuz the next week there on to someone else. People think shes a slut, oh well, who even knows that what was written is accurate, its not like it was a sex video, thats a different story.Only she knows the truth so if she wants to admit it then she shouldn't be surprised that people are going to talk about it. I mean who really writes that kind of stuff, hell she is probably proud of it. Besides I read a lot of the comments underneath the FB pic and i think he made himself look like the ass more then his sister. The school is probably on to some other gossip now. Thats all high school is gossip gossip gossip. Final comment on this is that i dont think Facebook should be held responsible for any of it. Thats just my opinion on the original question asked.

[deleted account]

Okay so what the brother did was way over the top but what on earth was the sister thinking? Why would you even think about writing that down?

Is it Facebooks fault? No. No matter what the medium is, someone is going to find a way to abuse it or twist it to their own end. It wasn't that long ago that people were trying to blame music for suicides. We need to learn to take responsibility for our own actions and quit trying to blame the other guy.

Dana - posted on 02/21/2010

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Wow, you really think it's funny? Stuff like this ruins people's lives, for a long time.

Melissa - posted on 02/21/2010

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I think this is funny myself, and feel people are responsible for their own actions. Why blame facebook? obviously he knew it was wrong thats why it was revenge. Now why she would write something like that is just waiting to be revealed, i mean at least keep it somewhere private or locked up. We've all been in highschool this whole thing will blow over in a few weeks, i wouldn't say her life is ruined. To me this is just plain immature sibling rivalry. I dont think people dwell on these things to long, at least not when i was in highschool. Someone would be a slut one week then the next week someone else was a slut. This will haunt her as long as she lets. As soon as she is done high school, she'll probably never see these people again.

Jodi - posted on 02/21/2010

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I don't really see how posting that list on facebook is any different than photocopying it and plastering it around the school. Bullying (or revenge) will still happen whether or not the internet is involved.




I agree with you to a degree, BUT if the school became aware of the issue, it would be responsible if it did not take it down. So in that respect, it is my opinion that while FB is not responsible for the situation, once they are made aware, or a complaint is made about it, FB has a responsibility to investigate and take down the list in a timely manner, that same reaction we would expect from the school authorities.

Heather - posted on 02/20/2010

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Siblings always fight and tattle on eachother....but he took it to a whole other level. This is why parents need to make sure they have access to their kids FB page. I am sooo not looking forward to the teenage years!

Dana - posted on 02/20/2010

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What a little dick. Who would do that to their sister. I hope he has some remorse...someday at least. Ugh, I want to kick his little butt myself.
I disagree with it being the same as photo copying it and putting it up all over. Those you can take down. There was no way for this girl to remove it, only the little asinine jerk could do it. Which is why FB makes it completely different than your normal bullying.

Rosie - posted on 02/20/2010

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kids are definitely going to find a different way to bully if they want to. i think the sites might need to be monitored more, but i really think it's up to the parents to teach their children not to be little jerks. these sites should have no responsibility for what it's users do.

Charlene - posted on 02/20/2010

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Kids are going to find ways to bully another if they really want to. Facebook, myspace, twitter... they all just make it easier for the kids to do it and to get it out to a larger audience.



Sure, maybe Facebook needs to crack down on things like this, but obviously they can't monitor each and every situation. That's what the 'Report' buttons are for, I suppose.



Ultimately, I think it should be up to the parents to be monitoring their children's online time as well as instilling the morals and values that teach children how to behave toward one another.

I was bullied in school when I was younger, not to an extreme, but it still hurts, especially when a lot of the parents of the bullies said 'Kids will be kids.. what can ya do?'. SORRY, but if you think there is nothing you can do, then I personally think you need to have your head examined.

Jocelyn - posted on 02/20/2010

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I don't really see how posting that list on facebook is any different than photocopying it and plastering it around the school. Bullying (or revenge) will still happen whether or not the internet is involved.

Shelby - posted on 02/20/2010

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I personally don't believe that these networking sites are to blame. These are free sites and shouldn't be held to standards as if we were paying them for security. I think that it is up to the parents to keep an eye on what our children are doing and, when they are doing something wrong, it is up to us to put a stop to it. I think a lot of blame is placed in places other than where it should be. I mean I use facebook all the time. I keep up with all my girlfriends that I have moved away from since we are all military wives....So should it be shut down because parents aren't watching what their children are scanning and posting on the internet?

Facebook is doing "US" a service by existing. Do you have any idea how many members are on places like facebook and Twitter? I mean I don't, but I'm sure its a lot...How can they be held responsible to look after all of them? Its our children that are lying about their ages to get accounts on there. It is our children that are hiding their accounts. It is our children that have friends on there that we don't know about...So how is it that people we don't know are responsible when it is happening in OUR homes under OUR noses??? I just think that we as parents need to be more aware, and take responsibility for our own messes and our own children.

Carolee - posted on 02/20/2010

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Unfortunately, this is more and more common every year. I do not think it's right, but there's really no way to stop it completely.

Isobel - posted on 02/20/2010

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and in marketing class the other day, we learned that we ARE indeed responsible for the social ramifications of the products we endorse. Facebook needs to own this problem and fix it.

Isobel - posted on 02/20/2010

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ooooohhhhh noooooooo...I'm so glad I grew up before facebook existed...my brother would totally have used it to torture me! Thank you for adding one more reason to the list of reasons my kids aren't allowed on the internet.

Jodi - posted on 02/20/2010

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Actually, this is very topical, because recently, a young 12 year old was stabbed to death at a school by a 13 year old. Now, keep in mind we are only into our 3rd week of the new school year. Unfortunatelyt, there were apparently FB comments and pages saying things like "he deserved it" and shit like that. I think it is disgusting.

In all honestly, I think that FB needs to be more responsive to these matters. I am not suggesting that they are in any way responsible for the things being said or done, by any means, but social networking sites need to be more proactive about monitoring what is going on.

Just as an example, there was a workplace here in Australia where the employer was recently fined $200,000 for the fact that workplace bullying was taking place in his workplace. He was not the instigator. He was not even a part of it at all. But the very fact that it happened, he was"kind of aware of it" because it had been vaguely mentioned to him, meant that he was help partially responsible (those who did the bullying were also held responsible). So the law here has laid a precedent that even playing a small part in the bullying, as small as providing the venue when you know it happens, is not acceptable.

Lady - posted on 02/20/2010

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Unfortunatley I think bullying is going to happen no matter what. There is always going to be someone who abuses things and uses them for what they shouldn't. It would be great if there were people who could keep more of an eye on what goes on on these sites but I'm not sure how practical that is. I think the power of these mediums are growing as people turn to them more and more but for the most part they are used for good or for fun.

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