Is Pro-choice the same as Pro-abortion?
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?? - posted on 09/14/2010
Diane said: "Yes krista that is good enough reason to kill just about anything and it shows just how pro-abortion you are. Yes she can lay there and think about her childs brain being crushed by the doctor who is killing it. NOW THATS FUN ISNT IT kRISTA............"
Diane said: "Yes Jaime it’s just cheaper to kill. Ah yes……. It’s better to pay $300 for as abortion than to stand up and take responsibility for your actions and give it life. You are just so compassionate. Such a kind and loving stance you have for children. The children you have now should be so very happy and lucky that you had NO PROBLEMS at the time you had them. LOL You should remind them of that one day. They are the luckiest kids in the world….that you did not kill them because you were not stressed out. Money Money Money……."
Those two replies are EXACTLY what I was talking about when I said you're nothing but a bully.
You need some therapy to deal with the trauma you have over your own CHOICE to have an abortion.
It's a really good insight into your heart when women are stating their opinions and you respond with such hate, abuse and rudeness.
You twist and misconstrue what people say in order to belittle and demean their thoughts, opinion and stance.
You don't have an opinion anymore, you just have abuse. You're a hypocritical bully. Grow up Diane.
Jodi - posted on 09/13/2010
From Cambridge Dictionary:
pro- prefix /prəʊ-//proʊ-/ prefix supporting or approving of something
pro-life adjective /ˌprəʊˈlaɪf//ˌproʊ-/ adj opposed to the belief that a pregnant woman should have the freedom to choose an abortion (= the intentional ending of pregnancy) if she does not want to have a baby
pro-choice adjective /ˌprəʊˈtʃɔɪs//ˌproʊ-/ adj supporting the belief that a pregnant woman should have the freedom to choose an abortion (= the intentional ending of pregnancy) if she does not want to have a baby
Results for pro-abortion
pro-abortion was not found
It's not even a word. it's just a word made up by pro-lifers to insult those who believe in pro-choice.
Krista - posted on 09/14/2010
Physical health, or does emotional health count too? "'Cause if a woman was forced by law to carry a doomed baby with no brain, I'm thinking that'd do a bit of a number on her mental state..."
Yes krista that is good enough reason to kill just about anything and it shows just how pro-abortion you are. Yes she can lay there and think about her childs brain being crushed by the doctor who is killing it. NOW THATS FUN ISNT IT kRISTA............
Seriously, Diane. An anencephalic fetus doesn't HAVE a brain, let alone one to crush. So any poor woman who is faced with this situation can either go through the difficult decision to terminate the pregnancy, because it's not like that baby has any hope of living anyway, or she can go through with the pregnancy, knowing that the baby will basically be born dead. NEITHER situation is "fun", as you so charmingly put it. There are REAL women out there with really difficult situations just like that, and for you to just say what you did makes an utter mockery of their suffering.
I respect the pro-life position. But I do NOT respect you making light of women who are in the horrible position of knowing that their fetus has abnormalities that make it impossible for it to live. And I do NOT respect you trying to force these women by law to carry out those pregnancies. And if you want to call me a godless pro-abortionist for it, then go for it.
?? - posted on 09/13/2010
That play out really bugs me...
"Who's to say one of those aborted babies wasn't going to be the one person that could find a cure for aids or truely end poverty? You will never know.."
Who's to say they don't become the next Ted Bundy or Charles Manson? Bin Laden or Hussein? Who's to say they don't turn into Aladdin and whisk off on a magic carpet.. who's to say they aren't the next america's next top model?
Who's to say the child won't be crippled with pain and guilt for having their mother go through a pregnancy and life with a child they never wanted? Who's to say they make the mothers life worth living after such a horrific thing happening to them?
It's all speculation and completely irrelevant.
Dana, I'll answer those questions. For the rape/incest: give the baby up for adoption... or keep it if you choose. And while some will say that I am being unsympathetic to the rape victim... I WAS raped. Biggest 'mistake' of my life was staying w/ my rapist for another 2 years, but it's a mistake I will never regret because then I wouldn't have my son. And maybe I do have a harsh view on that one since my son wasn't a direct result of a rape. And yes, I had MANY issues back then....
For the issue of putting the mother's life in danger: Carry for as long as possible before delivering the baby. Take it by a week to week or even day to day decision if necessary. Obviously, if the mother dies before the baby is old enough to survive outside the womb.... 2 lives have been needlessly lost and as I said in my first response... I'm in favor of the decision that saves the most lives. If the mother WILL die by continuing the pregnancy and the baby isn't old enough to survive outside the womb... not terminating the pregnancy is not being pro-life either since both will die. That is when the heartbreaking decision has to be made.
Did I make sense?
This conversation has been closed to further comments
Kathleen - posted on 05/11/2011
Yes. pro-choice, even if you wouldn't choose to abort makes you an advocate for abortion, most often voting in pro-abortion legislation that is happy to pass laws to murder innocent babies and the spirit of the mothers who buy into the culture of death, only to find out they made a tremendous and terrible mistake that cannot be taken back. So yes pro-choice=pro-abortion regardless of whether you would choose that for yourself or the stage of life at which the abortion takes place. At the moment of conception the baby is a baby, a person, God Wills into existance.
Peace in Christ,
Jaime - posted on 02/16/2011
I really think we are getting too hung up on terminology on all accounts. Every single term we use is made up from something. I had a prof in university that contributed two of his own words to the Oxford English dictionary...it's not far-fetched to think that a topic like abortion should encompass a lot more than just pro-life vs. pro-choice. Perhaps it would lay hold to an entire new line of thinking on the matter and open up some consideration in the eyes of legislators that are making finite laws against a living, existing person's rights.
April - posted on 02/16/2011
Being completely 100% pro choice means you support abortion at any stage, provided it's legal. I guess Jamie-Leigh and I fall into different categories of pro-choice, so should we have different terms for what I believe and what Jamie-Leigh believes?
Jaime - posted on 02/16/2011
No worries Kelly...I am interested in the use of the 'pro-abortion' terminology. I have read the recent comments in this thread and I see both sides of it. What I gathered from your comments was that we classify abortion as anything other than 'black and white', and yet we have the pro-life side vs. the pro-choice side...two distinct terminologies that imply you are either for or against. But somehow in the mix of it, we ('we' being society as a whole) are suddenly not willing to consider that there are varying points of view that just might not fall completely to one side or the other...making the need for a new term, completely reasonable. I don't know that I would call it 'pro-abortion'...but the majority of opinions on this topic don't fall completely to one side or the other. It works the same with every other continuum, so to me this is no different.
I am completely pro-choice and that will not change for me...at least not at this juncture in my life.
Edited a bit after posting, just to clear up my point.
Jamie-Leigh, I do not have a link at the moment, it was an article written by teams at two of our local colleges (Furman University & USCS) and at the moment, I have a copy, but nothing online.
In the article, they debate several social issues including teen pregnancy, abortion, sex education, and how each issue effects society as a whole. It is part of a series of articles--that one focused on procreation, There are future ones slated to focus on crime and economics. I think they are fascinating; I wish they would publish them online...
April - posted on 02/16/2011
See I consider myself pro-choice with limits...I DO care what stage a woman intends to have an abortion at. Ideally, I would say anytime in the first 6 weeks of pregnancy would be the time to abort, but I realize that is not realistic. More realistic: Not performing abortions after 19 weeks. After that, I feel like the right to choose is abused. Of course, exceptions should me made if the fetus is sick/dying or the mother is dying. Other than that, I think people (men and women) need to accept that a certain point has passed.
Yes, I do hate abortion, I feel I've been very clear about that, so yes, in that respect, I identify with the "pro-life" side of the debate. However, I do feel that abortion should be legal and unrestricted, which is definitely NOT the views defined by "pro-life", thus I identify with the "pro-choice" side of the debate. Thus my conundrum and the need for the term "pro-abortion".
Every "pro-choice" definition I come upon defines it as supporting a woman's "right" to choose what is best for HER, not what is best for the child or for society as a whole. If they would drop that whole "women's rights" bit, I would be very happy to call myself "pro-choice" but as it is, I will not.
Pro-abortion defines a view that supports legal abortion in the interest of what is best for the child and society as a whole.
As to where I got the term and definition, I got that definition (paraphrased) from an article on popular social issues, and have heard it used in local debate to define support of legalized abortion for the purpose of protecting the child, not the parent. It is still a newer term, but is becoming more accepted as a way to support legal abortion as a right to the child.
"Pro-abortion is believing that abortion should be legal and unrestricted."
Where did you get that definition?
Here's my deal....call me whatever you want. By the definitions that you just provided, Kelly, I'll agree and state that I am both pro-choice AND pro-abortion. I don't care why someone is having an abortion OR at what stage during their pregnancy they choose to abort. It's THEIR choice.
Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011
could we not do the "duh" thing? cause it's not the opposition that looks stupid when it is used.
Whether or not you believe that abortion should be legal...you clearly HATE abortion so it appears (by everything you have posted) that you identify more with pro-lifers (which by the way I think is also the wrong term for what they actually are but I use it because THAT's the word).
No, it's not that I don't like the definition, it is that the definition of that term does not define my views. If you cannot understand that simple statement, then it is going to be impossible to debate with you.
Besides that, you have the definitions confused:
Pro-abortion is believing that abortion should be legal and unrestricted.
Pro-choice is believing that a woman's right to abortion trumps the child's right to live because the child is dependent on the woman's body.
Furthermore, your argument that the term is just meant to sound "uglier" is ridiculous. Why would I want to make MY view sound uglier? If I were just trying to use an emotionally charged word to make one side of the debate seem ugly, I would attach the "uglier" term to my opponent's view, not mine.....duh.
"The two MAIN groups involved..." that is not to say that they are the only two views anyone is entitled to have. There could be smaller groups, weather you wish to acknowledge them or not, whose views do not fully conform to those of the pro-life movement or to those of the pro-choice movement.
Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011
Definitions of Pro-abortion on the Web:
* The abortion debate refers to discussion and controversy surrounding the moral and legal status of abortion. The two main groups involved in the abortion debate are the pro-choice movement, and the pro-life movement. ...
Pro-abortion is a made-up word...it doesn't exist in any sense of common knowledge.
"And you can go ahead and CALL yourself anything you like, I just don't have to say it means anything. If I call myself batman, it doesn't mean that I am."
And you can go ahead and CALL ME anything you like, I just don't have to say it means anything. If YOU call me batman, or pro-choice, it doesn't mean I am. You can call yourself anything you wish, but if you come to me and say "I'm pro-choice" then I'm going to interpret that to mean that you agree with abortion as a form of birth control. And if you say you are Batman, I'm going to interpret that to mean that you are a crazy, rich person that puts on a bat costume and lurks in the night--call yourself whatever you please, but know that the way you describe yourself will effect the way you are perceived.
But if you come to me and say "You're pro-choice" I am going to inform you that the term "pro-choice" does not adequately convey my views on the subject, and that I prefer "pro-abortion" because I think it defines my perspective more accurately.
While I don't care what you call me, I just want my views to be clearly expressed and I don't think "pro-choice" does that. I do not want people to perceive me as someone who feels that a woman has the right to refuse to incubate a child she chose to create just because she doesn't want to.
Many of the "pro-choice" advocates on this board would be appalled if a hospital refused to incubate a pre-term baby, yet support a woman's made up right to refuse the same service to a child she chose to put in that situation. I do not wish to be associated with that view, because if I support a woman's right to refuse life saving treatment to her child, I must support the same right for a hospital to refuse life saving treatment to a child for whatever reason, and I don't--I feel all people are entitled to the care they need to survive.
Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011
I've known a few people who've had abortions, and one word I've never heard used to describe them as "easy"
and you can go ahead and CALL yourself anything you like, I just don't have to say it means anything. If I call myself batman, it doesn't mean that I am.
Ugh. Maybe I should have used different wording, I was not going to post again because I don't care whether anyone agrees with my perception of the terms, but I am being misunderstood, so hopefully this will clarify.
When I said that "not intelligent enough" I mean that they are ignorant of the laws and steps they need to take to put the child up for adoption and are, for whatever reason, not willing to research them in order to take that path. It is MUCH easier to walk into an abortion clinic, listen to an hour of "counseling" and get an abortion than it is to walk into an adoption agency, read a hundred files on potential adoptive parents, interview several finalists, choose parents, make a legal agreement with them to outline terms of the adoption, continue a healthy pregnancy and give birth. The latter is obviously a better choice for the potential child than death, but if done incorrectly, as it often is by ill informed people, it can be a worse choice than death for the child.
I have often been accused on here of seeing the world in "black & white" by some of the very same people who, in the abortion debates, insist that there are only two ways to define abortion views: you must be either "pro-life" or "pro-choice". Well, I disagree, I do not think that everyone has to fall into those two categories.
"pro-choice" implies that the "mother" is entitled to a choice as to whether to finish a pregnancy chose to begin in the first place (It should go without saying that I am excluding rape and medical complications here, but in case it's not obvious, I am excluding those). I don't think she should be entitled to a second "choice", just because she didn't think the first one through. The fact that she didn't think the first one through AND is willing to abort the baby, however, is reason enough that the baby would PROBABLY be better off without her as a parent, and society and the baby would both be better off with the baby dead than stuck in the system somewhere because she didn't place the baby properly.
So while I don't think she is entitled to the "choice" and thus hate the term "pro-choice", I do think she should have the abortion, so I am "pro-abortion" NOT "pro-choice" but if you want to call me that, I don't care.
Isobel - posted on 02/16/2011
yeah...that was weird. It doesn't matter WHY you think abortion should be legal, if you do, you are pro-choice.
It sounds (by the fact that you believe people who want abortions are too stupid to put them up for adoption) that you have recently left the pro-life side of things because you realized that the laws NEED to be what they are.
And THAT would be why you think Pro-abortion is a word.
April - posted on 02/16/2011
I'm going to have to agree with Sherri and Krista on this, Kelly. Sometimes ending a pregnancy is the wisest thing a woman can choose to do. That being said, pro-choice and pro-abortion are NOT the same thing. I am pro-choice for everyone else, but I'd NEVER have an abortion myself (not even if i was raped, god forbid). I would also never advise someone to have an abortion. You'll never hear me say, "Well maybe you should think about aborting." It IS possible to support someone else even though you are sad about their decision.
Krista - posted on 02/14/2011
Yeah, those are some pretty gross generalizations there, Kelly. There are plenty of women out there who are highly intelligent, and who would make great mothers, but who have had abortions for some reason or another .
You sound more like you're pro-eugenics, which is rather alarming.
Sherri - posted on 02/14/2011
Kelly that isn't always the case a woman isn't obviously unfit to parent. You have no idea why or what has driven them to the point they feel they need to have an abortion. However, that doesn't even closely mean they are unfit to parent or are too stupid to pick an adoptive family. I have never had an abortion and I take huge offense to the things you have written. Most of them are grossly inaccurate.
I don't know, Laura....I consider myself "pro-abortion" not "pro-choice"
My reasoning is that abortion should not be a choice to keep the mother from being forced to finish something she started (she chose to start the pregnancy, she should finish it), but should be used only to protect the child from being born to such an irresponsible mother.
The woman having the abortion is obviously unfit to parent, thus society is better off as a whole keeping her from becoming one.
Also, most women having abortions are not intelligent enough to properly place their child with an adoptive family before/at birth, and our system is too full for all of them to be placed right at birth if the mother has not taken the appropriate steps before hand, (then the baby gets too old and no one wants it b/c of detachment disorder) so again, society is better off just letting her kill the fetus than having to deal with her mistake for her.
That is why I believe in abortion and feel that it should be kept legal, so I consider myself "pro-abortion" not "pro-choice"
yes and no I mean you can be pro-choice and pro-abortion I believe that women have a right to chose to have an abortion regardless of the circumstance but they also have the choice to do as they please (after all the fetus is using her body has a host until its old enough to survive outside) Just like it's not necessarily pro-life to keep a baby and give it up for adoption
Jodi - posted on 09/19/2010
Anika, I think Starr is saying that the difference between her being pro-choice and pro-life is that she does not believe it SHOULD be legal for anyone, whereas those of us who are pro-choice believe it SHOULD be legal (to whatever degree) even if we never have any intention of of making that choice for ourselves.
I think that seems to be the difference. And then either side of that line, we all have varying degrees of what we feel is acceptable.
Well, that is what I asked...
"So are you saying that you're pro life but think other women can make up their own mind (which I think makes you pro choice) or are you saying that you're pro life, you think every person should be pro life but you are realistic and know people don't agree with you but you still don't think their opinion should matter and that they shouldn't have a choice?? Does that even make sense? LOL"
So Starr you're saying the latter? Or was that wrong too?
And I think Pro Life people and Pro Choice people all take issue with women who use abortion as their only form of birth control. Like a few of us have already said, just because we think it's every womens' right to choose doesn't mean we condone its use in every situation.
Jodi - posted on 09/19/2010
If my understanding is correct, Starr is pro-life because she believes abortion is never an option and she has the belief that it should be illegal. However, she recognises that it IS legal, and therefore that others will make choices regardless of how she feels about it.
Jo, you are pro-choice (and actually I am on the same continuum as you in this respect) because while abortion would NEVER be an option for YOU, you don't believe it should be illegal because we don't have the right to take that choice away from others?
A bit of a fine line really......
?? - posted on 09/19/2010
We know that there are people that do that, even if YOU don't... we know that there are people that do - Diane, for example.
If someone like that, was in your daughters face, screaming at her for murdering her baby, would you step in or stand back?
Starr - posted on 09/19/2010
JO, I would support my daughter as much as I could. If she needed me to sit with her and hold her hand while she cried then I would. But at the same time she will already know how I feel on the matter. I'm not going to beat her more while she is down, but you know if someone calls her a mruderer Im not going to say 'oh don't listen to them" because again she will know how I feel on the matter. But with that said, I don't stand back and pickett or yell at women who have had an abortion. I don't treat them with disrespect and I hope that they wouldn't treat my daughter that way either.
?? - posted on 09/19/2010
@ Starr, I'm curious would you look at your daughter differently if she were to have an abortion? Would you support her through the process and be there for her like a mother should be there for a child in a difficult situation? Would you let it slide when people called her a murderer or baby killer? Would you stand up for her if someone was belittling her and attempting to destroy her emotionally even further than the choice of having an abortion would already be destroying her?
I am like you in a way, Starr. I am pro-life for myself. I will never ever have an abortion. So regarding myself, abortion is never an option. I don't control anyone else though. I only control my decisions. As much as I would fight for the life of the healthy embryo or fetus - it is ultimately that woman's decision. I don't condone abortion as birth control and I don't support women using it as such. I think abortion should only be an option to women who are, or who's baby would be, facing a life threatening medical problem, or if it is a case of rape or incest.
But I also think that women need to be more responsible with their bodies. If women would educate themselves more, then abortion wouldn't be a form of birth control. I'm not talking about rape or incest, I'm talking about women who repeatedly have abortions.
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