Is Pro-choice the same as Pro-abortion?

[deleted account] ( 373 moms have responded )

Let's pick up where we left off, ladies....I know a lot of us weren't done yet!

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Starr - posted on 09/14/2010

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" You do not get to choose to murder living breathing people or animals."
No, they ARE CHOOSING to do this. And you all are saying that you may not agree with abortions but you think every women should have the right to CHOOSE! Well it is a choice just like murder is a choice and pro-choice is supporting a CHOICE.

Jenny - posted on 09/14/2010

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I do not consider a fetus "a person" until they can maintain life on their own so your analogy is a red herring. Pro choicers are not supportive of ALL choices, how ridiculous.

Abortion is like a woman who wants a say on what inhabites her body. Heavan forbid SHE have an opinion on the matter.

Micha - posted on 09/14/2010

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Pro-choice is NOT the same as Pro-abortion by any means. I am Pro-choice, but as I have explained to many, MANY people, abortion is not MY choice. I will not judge you for what you choose to do with your body. I don't agree with it, but it's not my place to judge you for terminating your pregnancy, just like it's not you're place to judge me for not terminating mine.

I was into drugs, skipping out on school, not doing anything productive with my life, and all of that absolutely wonderful stuff! I chose to look at my pregnancy as a life changing oppertunity, not as an inconvienience or a burden. I stopped doing drugs. I didn't start going to school, but I did officially drop out and had my GED not even a month later. Now I'm working full time (sometimes upwards of 50 hours a week, since my husband recently quit his job), going to school for Real Estate, and being the best mother I can be. I may not be perfect, and the choices I make now may not be the best, but I can definitely with out a doubt say that my choice to keep my son was the best decision I ever made, because even though things are really, really tough only being 18, married, having a 4 month old, AND another on the way, along with the added stress of work and finding time to study, my quality of life is definitely a million times better. Without a doubt.

I realize I went way off topic with my story, but there was a point to it, I promise! Sometimes the choice no one agrees with because of the way you're living your life when you first find out you're pregnant is the best choice for you, and no one should ever, ever judge you for that. It's not their business.

Sherri - posted on 09/14/2010

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You are so off base Starr it isn't even funny. We are pro choice to aborting fetal tissue. Until that fetus is born it is not considered a living human being. You do not get to choose to murder living breathing people or animals. A fetus is just that a fetus it isn't a person yet.

Starr - posted on 09/14/2010

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So then you all are pro-choice...pro-choice is accepting someones right to choose. SO the man who chose to molest a 6 yr.old girl is supported because she chose to do it. Or the 17 yr.old who mrudered and 80 yr.old grandmother is supported because he chose to do it. The 40 yr.old lady who starved 60 cats and dispersed them in her yard is supported because she CHOSE to do it. Do none of you realize that sometimes we(a nation) need to step in and say enough is enough. We can't always be pro-choice because everyone CHOSES.
" A person can choose do something as long as they're prepared to face the consequences."

I pray that noone chooses to harm you or your family. There will be consequences, but since you are pro-choice you support their decision to choose.

Here is an analogy: Abortion is like a drunk driver. A woman chooses to abort and kill her child. A person chooses to drink and drive and kill an innocent person. The thing that a drink driver and an abortionist have in commen is thet both choose and they both kill. What a shame.

[deleted account]

Yes.

Everyone always has a choice, whether it's illegal or not is beside the point. I would still support the right to choose, but that doesn't mean that if a woman has an illegal abortion she won't face consequences. A person can choose do something as long as they're prepared to face the consequences.

Starr - posted on 09/14/2010

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I know I said I was done...but, I continued to read because I it interesting. So I have a question to the hardcore pro-choicers. Or whoever wants to respond: Are you only pro-choice because it is legal to have an abortion? Let's say that it was illegal. Would you still be pro-choice?

Jenny - posted on 09/14/2010

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Phew, finally made it through them all.

Ok I'm a 4/5. My line in the sand is when the fetus is viable outside the body of it's own accord. I support abortion for ANY reason, not wanting another child is good enough for me. If a woman does not want a child enough to choose to abort then I would not want that woman being a mother anyway. We have more than enough shit parents on this planet as it is and do not need to force anymore into it. We also have adoptees. Until the agencies are empty I do not put ANY credence into the adoption arguement. Humans are overrated and completely taking over all resources. It is inhumane and irresponsible to bring a child into this world unless the parent or parents are 100% commited to providing for it in every way until it is self-sufficient.

If I happen to become pregnant again I will choose abortion.

Jaime - posted on 09/14/2010

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I don't know how I can make my point without sounding detached because even though I know in my own heart that I could not abort a potentially viable fetus from my womb (unless detrimental to my or the baby's health), I am in support of the choice for someone else to do it.



I don't believe that a fetus is deemed viable until it is born alive and is able to obtain a birth certificate. We don't issue birth certificates at 20-24 weeks gestation, even though the fetus is potentially viable so I suppose that's how I can justify my stance on being fully and completely pro-choice.



I just want to be clear though, that I am not standing inside abortion clinics with my pom poms and cheering these women on...I just advocate for choice, no matter the reason, because I believe that it needs to be there.

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2010

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But Shannon, it is still essentially a "made up" word by pro-life advocates and they have twisted the definition to suit themselves. Professor Bradley is staunchly pro-life, so I would hardly say it is an unbiased comment about the term.

[deleted account]

[Pro-choice] is the answer that the legal protections which protect most of us from being killed should not protect all of us from being killed. Some people--the unborn--are to be exposed to deadly violence without legal aid or redress. And, so, just as ante-bellum Americans who refused to own slaves were nonetheless correctly called "pro-slavery"--because they affirmed the legal right of others to do so--Americans who today affirm the legal right of a women to have an abortion could correctly be called "pro-abortion," even if they judge abortion an option unworthy of their own choice.
Gerard Bradley

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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The Mulroney government introduced a bill in 1989 to restrict abortions to those required for health reasons with maximum jail sentences of two years for doctors who violated the law. The bill passed in the House of Commons but died on a tie vote in the Senate. Since then, abortion has been unrestricted in Canada, legal through all nine months of pregnancy up until the point of birth. Most abortions are funded by taxpayers through the publicly funded health system. There are now over 105,000 abortions a year in Canada. We are one of the few countries in the Western world that does not have any legal restrictions on abortion.


Taken from multiple Canadian abortion information sites.


Forcing a woman, by threat of criminal sanction to carry a fetus to term unless she meets certain criteria unrelated to her own priorities and aspirations, is a profound interference with a woman's body and thus a violation of her security of the person.

Chief Justice, Brian Dickson - 1988.

[deleted account]

If the law sees it as murder that person will be prosecuted. I'm not saying I agree with it. I think we're all on the same page. I have my restrictions and I know what and at what stage it makes my stomach turn to think of someone aborting their baby BUT I refuse to force those on another women, that's all!

[deleted account]

Morally, I do believe it's murder but that's not what the law says....not where I live anyhow. In Canada abortions are legal throughout the entire pregnancy. Trying to find a clinic that will do them isn't easy apparently. For good reason.

Kati, I do believe it's murder....that's how I see it too but that doesn't mean I'm willing to take away someone's right. Perhaps the laws need to change?

[deleted account]

"I very much believe that we need to do everything possible to protect the innocent life that is unable to protect itself so I fall more on the pro-life side of the spectrum." ~ Cassie

I respect that and I totally agree "that we need to do everything possible to protect the innocent life that is unable to protect itself", as long as it doesn't take away a woman's right. I promise I'm not recommending or even condoning abortions on a moral level but from a legal/political stand point, I refuse to take away someone's right. As long as they're within the law, they get that choice.

Rosie - posted on 09/14/2010

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can i ask how you guys that are for termination all throughout whatever the reason why you don't consider that murder? cause to me clearly it is. if a child can live outside of the womb, and someone kills it i don't see how anyone could think it's not murder.

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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I think that woman would need to be in a psych ward, not a prison :\



Those extreme cases will always be there, there are people who will do that regardless of whether it's illegal or not. Making it "illegal" and having those restrictions in place, are a safeguard to make sure the women / men who perpetrate such acts can be held accountable for killing that human being.



Women have the right to choose to have an abortion while the child is not yet a viable life. Once that child has grown to the point that they can survive outside of the womb, that choice is long gone. They're killing a human being, that can survive w/o them.





To me, it's kind of like the 3 strikes rule. First choice, comes when you have sex. Second choice, comes when you find out you're pregnant. Third choice, lasts until that baby can live outside your body. You miss on that third choice, you're out. You should've thought harder before you allowed that fetus to grow into a person.



No one has the right to kill a person, even if that person needs machine's and medical help to keep it alive for the first part of it's life. That's how I see it, anyways.

Jaime - posted on 09/14/2010

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Please understand that I absolutely mean no disrespect to the pro-life or even some of the pro-choice stances. I am simply an advocate for choice because when something as important as abortion is bathed heavily in restrictions, it could bring about extreme methods to ensure success, that result in illegal behaviour and a whole host of other long-term ramifications from a social standpoint.

Cassie - posted on 09/14/2010

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I wanted to add that I fall between Com 2 (only for imminent death not for psychological or emotional reasons) and COM 3 (only for fetal abnormalities that are incompatible with life not for rape or incest.)

I very much believe that we need to do everything possible to protect the innocent life that is unable to protect itself so I fall more on the pro-life side of the spectrum.

Jaime - posted on 09/14/2010

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And that's why I think that the choice needs to be there, regardless of gestation...to avoid illegal abortions. I'm not suggesting that it's right...but how can anyone force a woman to carry a fetus to term if she's just not psychologically prepared to do so. She might feel that she can better gauge her chances in jail, rather than carry her fetus past 38 weeks to give birth and relinquish her rights. I would and could never make that choice...I would opt to give the baby up for adoption in that instance, but I'm sure there are some women capable of carrying out an abortion, regardless of gestation...even if it meant giving birth to a barely-live fetus that dies shortly after as a result of the actions of the mother.

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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I don't know the laws exactly but as far as I'm aware, a woman would have to find a way to kill the child growing inside her, before the child left her body and took a breath. If the child is born or leaves her body and takes a breath before dying due to the actions of the mother, it is murder by law.

A boot or bat, or anything to make her give birth, could very well leave that child still alive when it is born, to take that breath.

I would hope like hell a woman in that position would have enough sense to give birth and relinquish rights. To clarify, I'm talking about after the baby has grown enough to be able to survive outside of the mothers womb.

Jaime - posted on 09/14/2010

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I support a woman's right to choose...so an abortion at 40 weeks would be included in that--regardless of how I personally feel on the matter.

I am not advocating for women to kill their viable fetus, I'm simply advocating for choice. Because I also look at all sides of the spectrum. I personally would never ever ever abort a viable fetus from my body...but I don't feel it is my right to take that choice from another person. The simplest reason being that, if a woman really really really wanted an abortion, she would find a way to make it happen and likely to the detriment of the child. Whether it be drinking herbal remedies or taking certain medications to induce pre-term labour or whether she has someone take a bat or a boot to her stomach (which although harsh, does happen). I am not suggesting that abortion is the only choice for them, but if their mindset is already so psychologically fixed on ending the life of a viable fetus, then it might as well be done safely and legally. I also think these would be rare cases, but sad as it is, the choice still needs to be there.

[deleted account]

I agree Dana whole heartedly i agree with you and what u are saying. Sorry i think i misunderstood u a little before. After re reading and some serious thinking Krista's Continuum i am COM 4.

[deleted account]

Ok, I've been thinking about this a lot since my last post and I just have to try and clarify this. Hopefully I make some sense.

If you are not willing to vote pro-life then aren't you in essence, pro-choice? If someone is going to vote pro-choice, they don't get to put their own spin on it. That's all I mean. Do I find the thought of aborting a full-term fetus horrifying? Of course, but in essence, by voting pro-choice, we're all "supporting" a women's right to choose an abortion within the restrictions of the law. That's all I'm saying.....I'm not speaking from a moral stand point and I'm not saying I'd be there rooting someone on in that situation. By "support" I mean I'm not willing to take away that choice by voting pro-life. Unless they're going to include Krista's Continuum when voting, aren't we all in essence pro-choice no matter what?

[deleted account]

Wow Diane. You're just a ball of sunshine and love aren't you? You're not going to like me at all :)

I'm somewhere between COM 4 and COM 5. For me it's the gestation issue that doesn't make me fully COM 5. Before the fetus is viable, I support ANY woman's choice for ANY reason. I might not condone her decision and I might not respect her for her choice but I do think she has a right to make that choice. After the fetus is viable and other factors come into play, I feel restrictions should be implemented, not just for the fetus, but for the mental health of the mother.

This world is overpopulated and full of unloved, unwanted children. I think bringing a child into this world who will be neglected and starved of food, shelter, education and love is akin to child abuse. I wouldn't wish that on a dog, let alone a child.

For me, a tick for Pro-choice is a tick for humanity. Staunch Pro Lifers need to get off their high horses and get a reality check.

[deleted account]

I have always been pro-choice. After reading this thread i still feel the same. I generally agree with Dana But i also think that after 20 weeks it is considered murder. I knwo what she means though about pro-choice should not have any limits on it and i can tell you know even though i would think it is wrong on so many levels for a mother to abort after 20 weeks there is no way in hell i would ever say anything to that woman.

Amy - posted on 09/14/2010

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No they are not the same. I am pro choice. I think that each person has to live with the choices they make on a dailly basis. It is between them and their spirtual guid and their own consience . I am also of the opinion that it isn't owr place to judge to harshly their choices we don't know what they went through to get to that point. No I don't think that abortion should be used as a form of birth control. I think that is the big picture of my opinion. Have a good day lady's.

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2010

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You know Sara, I have absolutely no idea about Australia's. We often follow the lead of other countries, and WHO recommendations, so it is probably something to do with that. I know that WHO takes a pro-choice stand on the issue, because of the risk to women's health if it were not legal. I am not totally familiar with the exact guidelines WHO recommends. However it is possible that features in our history.

[deleted account]

Question: I know the history of Roe vs. Wade in the United States. What is the history behind abortion laws in the other countries represented here? Mainly for my curiosity.

Krista - posted on 09/14/2010

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@Teresa: I think I liked you better when you were ignoring my responses... at least then I could completely skip over your insane tirades....

I ♥ you.

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2010

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See, I see that as murder at that late stage. It is a baby that could survive outside its own mother's body. As far as I am concerned at the point at which the baby is likely to survive outside its mother, I believe it should be given that chance and that no woman should have the option of abortion at that point UNLESS for medical reasons. That is the point at where my pro-choice views draw the line.

[deleted account]

Cassie, I would. It's not my body and it's not my choice. If she could find someone to preform that late of an abortion for her I would have no choice but to support it. Doesn't mean I think it's right.....it means I don't have the right to decide that for her. I'm not sure how you guys who would clearly vote pro-choice can then turn around and put restrictions on that? You're either pro-choice or pro-life? I understand there is a grey area but I don't feel it's my right to force my restrictions on another woman. If she chose to abort a pregnancy at 40 weeks she would have to face whatever consequences the law requires and I would support that. I hope I'm making sense?

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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I know you were asking Dana :) I was just throwing my 2 cents in too cause I'm bored, waiting for Gabe to wake up and I'm avoiding cleaning the kitchen hehe

Cassie - posted on 09/14/2010

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Right Jo, I was asking Dana (and Jamie could join in too since her stance is the same) since she said she supports it at any gestation...

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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If a woman waits 40 weeks to decide she doesn't want to care for her baby... she can agree to whatever method she feels is best for her to give birth, whether it's natural or c-section and relinquish her rights. If she tries to terminate her full term baby, she's a murderer. No questions about it.

[deleted account]

I wouldn't like it or agree with it if someone who was careless and didn't even attempt to use birth control gets pregnant and decides to have an abortion BUT I would support it.

Jodi - posted on 09/14/2010

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Good God......

In answer to Krista's Continuum, I am really tossing up between #3 and #4. I am actually really on the fence, because I don't like the idea that a woman can just choose to have an abortion for any reason. But I do believe it is her choice to make......so therefore I wouldn't want to see that choice taken away. So I'm a fence sitter :)

[deleted account]

Very well said, Jo! She's using the term "pro-abortion" to TRY and upset people. That's my problem. I don't consider myself pro-abortion.....I AM pro-choice but if she feels the need to refer to me as a pro-abort, she can bloody well go ahead. It means nothing to me. She's trying to use words like "pro-abortion" and "killing babies" etc. to try and evoke emotion and hopefully upset people enough to change their opinions? I dunno, seems silly to me. Diane, despite your opinions, if you would just refer to people as pro-choice rather than pro-abortion, or use the term ''aborting an unborn fetus" rather than "killing babies" maybe people would listen and debate with you. Why do you want to piss people off? Isn't it your goal to educate and inform people? You need to rethink your approach. We can't even get passed silly titles to debate the real issues. It boggles me.

?? - posted on 09/14/2010

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I personally don't find the term "pro-abortion" to be offensive, in itself. What I find offensive is the term being using purposely to degrade the stance of someone who is pro-choice.

I find it even more offensive when the person who is using the term, then proceeds to "explain" the "LITERAL" meanings of their perspective. If you're going to argue that your stance comes from the literal definition of pregnancy, life and conception - then you must use consistency in your argument.

The term 'pro-abortion' isn't even a noted term. There isn't a "pro-life" standpoint, a "pro-choice" standpoint and a "pro-abortion" standpoint if you go to an official debate/discussion/vote on this topic. When you're voting, literally, there is a PRO-LIFE box and a PRO-CHOICE box. Period.

So if you're going to DEMAND consistency from everyone, you had damn well present your own consistency.

[deleted account]

Uh-oh, Diane - you've even managed to piss off the other pro-lifers. I suppose that doesn't matter to you though because you live in a bubble and only surround yourself with people EXACTLY like you. You're alienating EVERYONE just to spew your hateful message. It'd be different if your opinions were changing minds but your argument became ineffective long ago. Stick to your lil' group, don't venture outside your lil' bubble, and you'll do just fine!

I have one last question for you? Do you honestly believe that abortions will become illegal one day?

[deleted account]

Jo, and to anyone else who doesn't mind me clarifying....you mentioned that you choose life for yourself but you would vote pro-choice and allow other women to CHOOSE life or not. I am the same, for what it's worth.



When I found out I was pregnant at 19 weeks and I was heavily using drugs for the couple years prior, trust me, I was put to the test. I did choose life and I'm SO glad I did BUT I will never take that choice away from anyone, no matter what the reason, no matter how far along they are.

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