Is ' spanking ' and effective form of discipline?

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 04/15/2010

They took natural aggressive behavior into account:



"The odds of a child being more aggressive at age 5 if he had been spanked more than twice in the month before the study began increased by 50%," says Taylor. And because her group also accounted for varying levels of natural aggression in children, the researchers are confident that "it's not just that children who are more aggressive are more likely to be spanked."



What they considered aggressive:

"Compared with children who were not hit, those who were spanked were more likely to be defiant, demand immediate satisfaction of their wants and needs, get frustrated easily, have temper tantrums and lash out physically against others."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100412/hl...

Alison - posted on 04/15/2010

Boys tend to be spanked more often than girls. Is the aggression resulting from spanking or from a child being a lively boy?

Is the early aggression even a bad thing (who's to say that it doesn't help to get it out of your system early)?

Is the observed aggression real aggression (to me a child picking up a stick and pretending it's a gun is not aggression, neither is normal childhood bossiness)?

I'm calling BS on this study because school bullying and violent children are worse than ever, yet we spank less than ever before. According to a study like this you would think kids were running riot in the 40's, 50's & 60's. Sorry, but the opposite is true. The best evidence is time, not a sample of people in one study.

Rosie - posted on 04/15/2010

i wonder if theses studies know why the child is more aggressive, could it be that the child was more aggressive in the first place, hence needing (not sure if that's the right word) more spankings. not the spankings causing the aggression. just a thought.:)

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Amanda - I've blocked a lot of my childhood out, though mine wasn't that great before the age of 7, so I have little flashes like you're talking about as well. I have some awesome memories though, which I'll hold on to and just let the rest stay blocked... even if it is unhealthy. lol.
There's some I don't remember because of the seizures, so I know how you feel about losing time. It really stinks. There are ways you can get it back with psychology though. It's really helpful. :) (If you're ever interested in checking it out.)
I think we all have some stuff that we block out, sub consciously for whatever reasons. We were told that my niece would probably do the same thing so she wouldn't remember the pain of her loss. We try our hardest to talk about her Dad as much as possible so she'll keep remembering all the stuff before he passed away. Hopefully it'll work.
I think we do have the same step dad!! LOL! I've heard him actually yell maybe 4 times in almost 24 yrs. I think twice was at me, and once was because I was in trouble. The other time was because I was 2 acres away on the 5 acre plot they own. haha. The one time I heard him yell in the house it scared the crap out of me. Thankfully it wasn't my fault! And he was so mad he cussed at the same time... I got up and walked out of the house. I think that was the only time I was ever afraid of what he'd do. (My brother and his gf at the time were screaming at each other in the house... it was my birthday and the two of them were fighting so loud I'm surprised the neighbors didn't call the cops.) My dad had enough and told them to get the eff out or shut the eff up. I decided to go sit outside, the next thing I knew he was outside mumbling about lack of respect for others and stupidity and shaking his head... the whole house was quiet. lol

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

Suzette- thanks, my mom and dad had split up when i was like 3 or 4, i saw him the summer before he passed away and then he was in a car accident like two weeks before i turned 6.. unfortunately i don't really remember him all that much... i've recently figured out that i blocked a WHOLE BUNCH of my past because my brain was telling me i had a bad childhood, even though it really wasn't all that bad, just not the perfect childhood a kid should ideally have. kind of stinks that i did that for whatever reasons, i dont remember anything but flashes of my life before i was about 12... and im only 23 so thats half my life!!
but yeah, i think i've heard my stepdad yell like twice since i've known him, it scared the crap outta me, and he wasnt even yelling at me, haha!!

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Amanda, no offense taken! (But I know that things have been a little heated on here too!) I also wanted everyone to see that while I was with an abusive parent, who was violent (not towards me though it was tried after my parents split) it doesn't always breed violence in the child. I'm not the only example of that though.

I'm sorry to hear about your Dad, I know how tough that is (not personally), my niece lost her Dad (my brother) when she was 6 years old.

Ugh, I know the whispering drives you nuts!! That's how my dad is, the mumble/whisper. LOL. And he doesn't curse either, I'm like my mom, half the time like a sailor. haha. My mom and dad (step dad) have been together since i was 7, they married when I was 10, mom and biological father divorced when I was 6 yrs old.

I do the same thing with sarcasm, though it's meant to be a joke. It usually gets me in trouble... whoops. LOL. Sometimes it works!

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Dana, I wasn't trying to make you cry, I'm sorry!! I've been in the whole abuse cycle too, I know how hard it is to separate yourself from that and start living for you again. It took me a while to realize that to live for *me* meant I had to stop holding on to all that hatred for him, which meant I had to forgive him... it was the hardest thing I EVER had to do. (But SO worth it!) :)

Trust me, I have *really* strong opinions on things because of my past experiences too, we all do, it's what makes us all individuals. If we were all the same, it'd be one boring world!! (You didn't come across as harsh... I've got thick skin!)

Like you, I'm pretty afraid of becoming a new mother, but I firmly believe that we take what we've learned from our past and we learn what *not* to do and build from there. I also know we all make mistakes and I'm hoping I just don't make too many!!

I've also been the one who thought I was "fighting back" in past relationships, around my teen years, and it turned out I wasn't fighting back against anything except myself. It was emotional, not physical.

I'm really sorry I made you cry!! (P.S. Sometimes the more you talk about it, the less you cry and the less power it holds over you... at least that's what happened with me. Everyone is different though!)
And if I make you cry again, you have my permission to virtually smack me!!! LOL!

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

omgosh suzette... we have the same stepdad!! lol... he did do drugs and things before we knew him, but thats about it, drinks once in a blue moon, no drugs anymore... HE WHISPERS THOUGH... it drives a person crazy sometimes lol and totally not abusive either :) my real dad died when i was 5, mom married stepdad when i was 6, they've been seperated since i was like 15, but he's still my stepdad and always will be..

i'm lucky enough to not have any experience with abuse, except a bit of emotional, not purposefully inflicted, by my mom... i was making a poor excuse of a joke, sorry if it offended... i tend to make jokes about bad things/at the wrong times... its a habit

Alison - posted on 04/15/2010

September, I am curious how you came to the conclusion that spanking is not effective for your family if you have chosen never to spank your children (maybe you are referring to your siblings and your parents?)

Personally, I am on the fence. I have spanked my girls. It may happen again or may not.

I have a really hard time with people who insist that it is necessary when so many qualified professionals claim it is unnecessary and detrimental.

That said, it seems overwhelmingly prideful to assume that all humanity has been completely wrong up until our generation. Perhaps there are better forms of discipline and perhaps violent parents promote violent children, but it is possible and probable that a well-placed well administered spanking does more good than harm.

When we have spanked our children it was not in anger and it involved communication and was followed up with a hug and an "I love you".

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

You're welcome Sara! I'm glad that I was able to help. :)

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

Thanks Suzette! I'm in tears at the moment as I'm realizing how much of my opinion has to do with the way I was treated even into early adulthood........I'm sorry if I came across so harsh! I said to check emotions at the door but look at me.....WOW! All I can do is reflect on my behavior and hopefully learn something in the process!?



I was actually terribly afraid of becoming a mother for the fear that I would be like my dad! I've even been the abuser in past relationships so it was hard for me to think about bearing a child! Once I saw her lil' face all that fear went away........I can say that I learned WHAT NOT TO DO from my dad! I'm proud of myself and I think it makes me a better mother!



I still don't agree with spanking.....LOL! but I'm sorry for getting so emotional!



P.S. STOP making me cry Suzette......I wanna go back into my bubble and forget what my dad did to me! LOL! ;0

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 04/15/2010

Thanks, Suzette. Your explanation was very helpful! And Christina, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm the one typing and I know what I mean. If I wanted to call you a barbarian I would do it, but that's not what I was saying.

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

"Also, just throwing it out there... murderers and most people arrested for any type of violent crime are usually "such nice people" lol... then one day... they snap :) lol It's the quiet ones you gotta watch out for!"



Okay, let me put this out there...

My biological father (who I don't hate, don't love either but... well I forgave him because it was killing me inside not to, hopefully that makes a lick of sense.) was one of those that was extremely loud, roudy, etc. and he did drugs, alcohol, etc. He wasn't violent though, just an extreme partier. (Not that he was a very nice person either though cause he wasn't!) He became violent after an accident where he hit his head on a train track from a fall off of a train car. (He beat the crap out of my mom, tried to get abusive with me, and is now in prison for murder.)



My step dad (who I refer to as my dad - he adopted me and my brother), on the other hand, is the nicest man I've ever met (so is my husband or I wouldn't have married him... lol) is the total opposite. He's never even tried drugs, he does drink though he's not an alcoholic, but he's extremely quiet. Quiet to the point that people think he hates them. If he speaks it's usually something smartassed in response to what you just said, unless it's at work then it's about work. Normally, he doesn't speak unless he really has something worth saying and you (generally speaking) better hope you're paying attention because he's soooo quiet when he talks it's almost like mumbling.



Sometimes it's not the quiet ones... it's the loud, obnoxious ones... LOL! :P

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Dana, I completely agree with you that for everyone it is different. There are people who take it to extremes and will never admit that they were wrong in the past. My biological father is one of those people, though his wasn't about spanking. My step father, on the other hand, isn't one of those people and there are spankers out there that aren't like that either. Every situation is different and, unfortunately, when we use our experience to base our opinions sometimes it's like a double edged sword. (If that makes sense?) I have talked to many women about abuse, from my own past experience with ex boyfriends and my mother's experience as well. (Sorry I know this is off topic.) There are so many different forms of abuse whether it's physical, emotional, mental, or verbal that when we relate our experiences to our opinions, it can cause conflict between one another. Using the word abuse is something that many people, like Valerie said, often relate to things like physical violence. Dana, in your situation while there was obviously physical abuse there was emotional abuse tied in with it - I'm sure.

For those that are here talking about spanking though, it's quite the opposite... as I think you already know. =) Sometimes it's hard to figure out where the line is though... especially when we know where the other side of the line is. Hopefully all that rambling made some sort of sense. LOL.

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

This is true... not many people will admit to spanking so hard or so often that it could be considered abuse. I think if you recognize that you went too far and have made an effort to calm yourself down beforehand then you're usually not an abusive parent though.

Also, just throwing it out there... murderers and most people arrested for any type of violent crime are usually "such nice people" lol... then one day... they snap :) lol It's the quiet ones you gotta watch out for!

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

I just wanted to make sure it was understood that those who spank appropriately do so out of love as well. :)

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

And in my situation, Suzette, when my mother threatened, " wait till your Dad gets home " it scared the living shit out of me.......the fear was real because of what I experienced! I remember going and sitting in my room with this heavy feeling of doom overwhelming me waiting for him to come home and ' spank ' me!

I also just wanted to add that, to this day my Dad still claims it was just ' spanking ' and I strongly disagree! I don't know if he realized how his actions affected me? That's where my problem comes in.......you never know until it's too late and ' spanking ' is open for interpretation! Just because somebody says it should be done this way, or it shouldn't be done that way doesn't mean EVERYONE does it a specific way!

Anyhow, I'll shut up now because I've been talking WAY too much! Look forward to getting some more opinions....

Teresa - posted on 04/15/2010

No worries from me Dana. I wasn't really upset. It's just that when I hear the word abuse I think of my ex-cousin-in-law who was whipped w/ a fishing rod for pooping in his pants at 3 or my ex-brother-in-law that was hit w/ a 2x4 for lying as a teenager and to think that some people equal me tapping my son on his hand, butt, or upper leg as abuse on any level hurts my heart a bit. My son saved my life and I would NEVER abuse him in any way, shape, or form. :)

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

lol yeah my mom tried to get my stepdad to spank me when i was like 11 or 12 one time, and he took me in the room, put a pillow over my rear, and told me to scream!! haha.. he knew i hadn't done what my mom thought i had done though lol... after that she just grounded me to the house, and then kicked me out the next day cuz i was annoying her haha...

dana, i don't recall if it was you i had saw said that, I was just saying in general, a lot of people who don't spank seem to think that theres no way a spanker isn't going to haul off one day and knock their kid out, but yet a non spanker has no chance of ever doing that lol... whoever did say it, nothing against them, just stating how i see it really, not trying to fight with anyone :)

Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

:P I have no problems with people not liking spanking. Everyone is different and that is GOOD thing. :) I highly admire those who don't spank and those who do. We are all Moms who want the best for their kids and I just wanted to make sure it was understood that those who spank appropriately do so out of love as well. :)

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Amanda, My mom *tried* to spank me at 14... it didn't work so well. By then I was hovering over her in height, she's pretty short and I'm not. (She's about 5 foot tall and I'm about 5'8" lol) So, I got told "wait till your Dad gets home" and it was usually one swat and I'd just look at him. I knew that I'd disappointed already and the "wait till your Dad gets home" was enough to know that. It usually had me on the edge of my seat thinking to myself about what I'd done. But that happened rarely, very rarely. (Like I've stated before, screwed up memory due to seizures so I can't recall exact amount of times, but I'm pretty sure it was about once a year.) Usually it was grounding, taking of the allowance, more chores, etc. And when you're a teenager that sucks SO much more! lol

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

I don't see how it's impossible for you to not spank out of anger.

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

oh yeah, I spank my dogs when they're being bad too.. lol

Amanda - posted on 04/15/2010

I spank my son when nothing else seems to be working and he's still not getting close to listening (talking, time out, redirecting his attention elsewhere). I am always open to other ways of disciplining my child, I don't LOVE spanking him lol, but sometimes I feel it is needed. I don't spank him more than once for something, and I don't spank him when I'm too angry to be able to handle it. I don't see how it's impossible for you to not spank out of anger. Anyone who doesnt believe in spanking, you've never spanked in anger have you? Then why is it impossible to not do it if you do believe in spanking?
I don't spank my son every day, but have spanked him more than one time in a day on the days where he's just not listening at all to anything. He isn't a bully, he does have his moments when he's a meanie, but I've met quite a few kids that didn't get spankings that were just as bad, if not worse. I think it depends on the kid, some kids go thru a hitting phase, whether spanked or not, and some kids don't. My mom spanked my brother and I when we were little, and my brother still gets into bar fights occasionally*hes a seperate topic all his own lol* and I never even got in fights in school lol...
I do not believe, however, that you should be getting spanked when you're older, I think you should start grounding or cutting off allowance or something other than spanking at around school age. I think it's ridiculous to hear about 14 year olds and whatnot getting spanked... I think I would have laughed at my mom had she spanked me at that age lol.. that's just silly.

C. - posted on 04/15/2010

@Sara and Dana..



I didn't look too far into it at all. She worded it that way, not me. Perhaps she didn't want to come out and say it b/c it could be taken as an attack? Who knows.. But that is what she implied whether you two will admit it or not. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one that sees it, too (what she was implying).





Suzette is spot on! The point of a spanking isn't to hurt or scare the child, it's to get their attention. Almost like to snap them back to reality, and at that instant that they are spanked, they know that they've disappointed you and they do better the next time. It's proven that when spanking is done PROPERLY (and yes, there is a right and wrong way to spank!) it is beneficial as opposed to detrimental.

Good Day! - posted on 04/15/2010

Spanking can turn into abuse if done improperly. But all spanking is not abuse. Children need boundaries and rules and consequences. Spanking is a consequence that works for many children when done correctly.

Incorrect:
1. spanking in anger
2. inconsistency
three warnings this time, no warnings next time
3. Based on feelings
laugh at that cute mischievous thing today, spank for same action tomorrow

I'm sure there are other incorrect ways, but that is what comes to mind at this moment. And the above scenarios can apply to any form of discipline (time outs, etc.).

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

She might!?.......but I can handle her! LOL! ;)

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

I think we posted at EXACTLY the same time... haha! Imagine that... lol. I have the exact really strong views on religion, though it doesn't include the word abuse... but I'm sure you get what I mean. lol. So I understand completely. And when you have past experience helping to form your opinion... well it kind of makes it harder too. I hope she wouldn't punch you in the face though, I have people I know that disagree with me and it gets pretty heated, but I've never been punched in the face over it... LOL! (Though there's a first for everything!)

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

You're right Suzette, my apologies again!

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

Ok ladies, here goes.......



After much thought while I was cleaning my house I've decided to apologize! WOW! I know, there's a first for everything! While I still have my strong views about ' spanking ' I shouldn't have used the word ' abuse '.......I like all you ladies and I really value ur opinions so I'm sorry if I've offended you with my choice of words!



My sister-in-law and I have differing views about ' spanking '.......and I would hate to think I was calling her a ' child abuser '.....she would be pretty upset and would probably punch me in the face! LOL!

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

Dana,
It's one thing to see it that way, but it's not a fact that it IS that way. What made you form your opinion was horrible and I'm sorry that it happened to you. That does not mean that based upon one person's actions that it is that way all the time, with all people. (As I'm sure you're well aware.)
I simply don't understand how you can expect (and want from your first statement) this topic to stay positive with debate and facts, when you're knowingly throwing out negative terms towards those attempting to offer debate and facts.
I honestly don't think we're the only ones "reading implications" into what you're saying and getting emotions riled... I believe both sides are guilty. Abuse is a negative word, it will get a negative response, hence throwing off the "positive" results of this thread.

Spanking can be considered abuse, when it's taken over the line. No where in the topic did it ask when we thought spanking could be considered abuse and at what line would that be. It asked about spanking being an effective form of discipline. ,

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then? I'm sorry if you feel that I'm calling you an abusive mother because I'm not! There are varying degrees of abuse and although I don't think you're ' beating ' your children and I also don't think you're bad mothers because you choose to ' spank ' BUT I STILL feel that on some level ' spanking ' can be considered a form of abuse! You don't have to agree with my statement but I really don't want you to be offended by it!? It wasn't directed at any one person in particular and I'm not going to change my mind! If you want me to stop using the word abuse because you're taking it out of context then I will! I'm not trying to start a fight and you're right, ' abuse ' does have a negative conotation but that's how I see it! NEGATIVELY!

Teresa - posted on 04/15/2010

I agree w/ Valerie. You can't call spanking abuse and then say that people that spank aren't bad mothers. Child abusers AREN'T bad mothers....??? I'm sure CPS will be pleased to be informed of this.



IF you think any form of spanking is abuse (I most certainly do not) then you are actually calling ANY parent that spanks a bad parent unless you have no objection to people abusing their children. So how can you not think spankers would find that comment extremely offensive?

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

“If you say what we are doing is abuse....then you are saying we are abusive mothers. I was pointing out that it is an insult to say such. How is saying what I'm doing is abusive not an insult? Abuse is horrific…
There are plenty of parents who don't spank and thereby don't do any form of discipline with their children. I think that is far worse to give your children no guidelines. I don't however group everyone who refuses to spank their children in this category because it is simply untrue and unfair.”
“…keep it positive and check your emotions at the door.”
@Valerie and Dana
First, I have to somewhat agree with Valerie. To an extent, it does sound like those who spank are being called abusive mothers. However, since it was stated that we should “keep it positive and check the emotions at the door” that is what should be done… on both sides. Like I said I agreed somewhat since I’m seeing both sides getting riled. One side is throwing around the word abuse, whether it’s from opinion or not, the other side is reacting to those implications which can only be expected. For me, it doesn’t really matter what other people think of me and my chosen form of discipline. I know I’m not beating anyone, if that’s how they want to see it, more power to them… but it’s nothing I’m going to get in trouble with CPS over.
As far as the parents who don’t spank and thereby don’t do discipline of any form, I have to say that if you were to say that it would throw out something along the same lines of implication. You’re right, it wouldn’t be fair, or true, because I do know of some children that spanking isn’t necessary. They will actually listen if they’re merely spoken to, given time outs, etc. There are other children that just doesn’t work with. Every child is different, just as every parenting style is different. Neither one is a form of abuse or neglect, I think we all need to respect each other’s choices in what, and why, we choose to do what we do, regardless of our own personal beliefs. We can quote statistics all day long, throw out statements with implications left and right, talk about our likes and dislikes as well… but it doesn’t change the fact that we’re all different. What works for one won’t work for the other. But that doesn’t mean we have to be disrespectful.
@ Mary,
On a side note, about “spanking” animals when they’ve done something improper, disciplining animals is a little different than disciplining a child. I have personally found that what works with each animal is also different as what will work with each child. They’ve all got different personalities, just like each child does. Sometimes you can discipline an animal with a small tap on the nose (as you’d tap a child’s hand), and that works. Very rarely does tapping an animal’s behind works, and trainers will tell you that as well. So unless you’re doing it just for the hell of it, really there’s no reason for it at all. However, what usually always works for animals is a small squirt bottle full of water. I don’t know why they dislike it so much but they do. Every animal I’ve ever owned hates being squirted with water. More often than not, it takes me two times before they stop doing what they were doing to get in trouble in the first place. There are, of course, stubborn animals just like there are stubborn people. But training an animal is quite different from teaching a child. Any trainer will also tell you that, so comparing the two is like apples and oranges.

Suzette - posted on 04/15/2010

“If spanking doesn't hurt your child physically then what's it supposed to do? Hurt their feelings? Show that you're stronger or bigger? Scare them? If it doesn't hurt them then why does it stop the behavior? Don't go looking into this too much...I just don't understand what spanking is supposed to do to the child.”
@Sara,
Actually, if done properly, it doesn’t hurt them physically. It catches their attention and they realize that they’ve disappointed you and pushed your limits. If you’ve read my prior posts then you know where I stand on the topic and you know that it’s more about the emotional aspect. My niece, who I’ve done this with since she was about 2 yrs old knows it’s a disappointment thing, it’s not about me hurting her or proving I’m stronger and bigger than her, or to scare her. She stops the behavior because she hates the thought of disappointing me, my mom, her mom, etc. When spanking was first introduced to her, it was done maybe once a month, at the most twice. She might have gotten a small tap on the hand if she was mischievously going after something she knew she shouldn’t be. Now she rarely gets spanked, from what I’m told she hasn’t been spanked in almost a year. I think she’s doing pretty well, considering that all it takes is someone talking to her now, especially when all the other methods weren’t working at first. (And yes, they were tried.)

Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

We are defensive because negative terms are being thrown at us, yet we aren't throwing them back at you. There are plenty of parents who don't spank and thereby don't do any form of discipline with their children. I think that is far worse to give your children no guidelines. I don't however group everyone who refuses to spank their children in this category because it is simply untrue and unfair.

I find it ironic you want a positive thread about this, but then throw out negative terms, call us abusive, and then are surprised when we defend ourselves against these terms. Isn't that the point of a thread like this? If we aren't here to talk about what you said and inform you why we feel this is incorrect then what's the point?

Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

If you say what we are doing is abuse....then you are saying we are abusive mothers. I was pointing out that it is an insult to say such. How is saying what I'm doing is abusive not an insult? Abuse is horrific, I've taught many students recovering from abuse....it's not pretty. So to have someone group what I do as discipline in with that is an insult! For example, if a mother sends her kiddo to bed without dinner because the kiddo refused to eat what she gave her, some might disagree with that. But it crosses a line if you then tell her that to send a kid to bed without dinner is neglect. You were the one who originally said when you started this to keep it positive and check your emotions at the door. Fine, then don't throw around words like abuse to describe how other mothers parent unless it's something you would call CPS over. If it is abuse, that's what you should do!

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

And yet somehow they're child abusing barbians?! LMAO!

Sorry, that was uncalled for and inappropriate but I just couldn't help myself! Hopefully it doesn't get deleted too soon......?

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 04/15/2010

Thanks, Dana :).



If spanking doesn't hurt your child physically then what's it supposed to do? Hurt their feelings? Show that you're stronger or bigger? Scare them? If it doesn't hurt them then why does it stop the behavior? Don't go looking into this too much...I just don't understand what spanking is supposed to do to the child.

Jackie - posted on 04/15/2010

Oops, sorry, it was so long ago I couldn't remember. Then good analogy Mary =)

Chatty - posted on 04/15/2010

WOW! Good morning ladies.....LOL! I guess at some point this was bound to happen?! To Brittany, Valerie, Christina etc......stop getting defensive and reading way to far into other people comments......you're putting words into our mouths!



Valerie: you quoted me,

Quotes from non-spankers: "BUT I (ME) think that ' spanking ', ' smacking ', and even the most recent one I've heard, ' saucing ' are all FORMS of abuse whether it be a child or an adult!"



Thus those of us who spank are abusing our children.

Lady - posted on 04/15/2010

It was deleted because your ARGUMENT has nothing to do with the topic, so IF you want to go carry on take it to PM because I'm sick of reading it and I have to because I'm mod!!

Shannon - posted on 04/15/2010

I totally 100% believe in spanking & I will continue to spank. Nothing anyone says will alter my decision. :-)
AND YES..... it has to do with the Bible.. ♥
Dana, you have my permission to roll your eyes at me. :-)

Shannon - posted on 04/15/2010

Yes. I know for a fact that my daughter knows the difference between being spanked for a reason & mommy being mad & "spanking". We've talked about it a ton. She is smart & understands a lot. I don't believe for a second that she doesn't get it. I also don't believe for a second that I'm teaching her to hit or be mean. She has never hit.

C. - posted on 04/15/2010

Isn't that nice, Jackie. /sarcasm If you were referring to me, I did have an interest in your thread. I wanted to share my story.. But the difference between the Spanking thread and your Pacifier thread, is that the OP in this thread seems to actually want to know the other side, not just keep attacking whoever they don't agree with!

Anyway, about the hitting thing. There are some people that go way too far when spanking their child and end up hurting them. That's not how you're supposed to spank! You are not supposed to be hurting your child. That is called abuse. If you are NOT hurting your child, it is NOT abuse!

And the animals.. Yes, I have spanked the animals or smacked their noses if they do something bad (like attack my son or something) and they haven't done it since! Sorry, but I would much rather spank our dog or cat (my mom has both) instead of having to deal with the guilt I would feel if all I did was shoo them away and the second I look away, they maul my son! Sorry! Not happening here! I don't see a problem with it as long as you are not hurting the child or animal emotionally or physically.

Jackie - posted on 04/15/2010

Well this one took off since last nite. Back to one of yesterdays comments, as I said I do not spank now and highly doubt I will...and I will say that I have never thought of it in terms of what Dana said about not hitting her dog for discipline...but that's a very good way to look at it. I don't even hit my cat when he is a total you know what...so ya, why would I ever consider doing it to my child. I suppose that just solidifies the fact that I can feel more secure in saying I won't ever spank in the future either.

Good analogy Dana =)

And Jean...if you are sick of the conversation why enter it??/ SOmeone else just did this in a different post. If I see a topic I am not interested in, I just don't read it. Clearly there are plenty of people who are interested in having this debate again.

. - posted on 04/15/2010

Seriously, how many times does this debate need to brought up?

C. - posted on 04/15/2010

@Sara..



"Christina, you used the term barbaric. I did not. I don't like seeing someone spank their kid in front of me. It bothers me. I don't like it. It makes me uncomfortable. No matter what you say that won't change."



You did not use the actual word, but you implied it. Which is exactly what I said in my post. Never once did I say that you USED the word "barbaric".. (from my post: "Implying that spankers are barbaric")



Sorry, but when you word things like this, it does imply a barbaric action:



"Maybe watch in a mirror next time and see if it bothers you."



"I think if I saw myself like that I would hate it. Just a thought.."



So.. Yeah..

Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

I would like to point out....if your kids grow up in a home where they are not only loved but are very aware of how loved they are, they will turn out just fine. No matter how you choose to discipline. But like teachers, not all parent is the same nor should they be. I just get the most riled because no where did I see it implied that those who don't spank are neglectful or bad because they made that choice. So don't judge me and imply such harsh things towards me because I made a different choice.

Valerie - posted on 04/15/2010

I meant not spank your kids.....I have not issues if you decide to not spank your kids lol....