Oklahoma's new Abortion Law...

[deleted account] ( 92 moms have responded )

Women became emotional and some cried after being shown fetal ultrasound images at a Tulsa abortion clinic Wednesday, a day after Oklahoma enacted what has been called the nation’s most restrictive abortion law.

None of the women, however, decided against terminating their pregnancies, said Linda Meek, the executive director of Reproductive Services in Tulsa.

Lawmakers on Tuesday overrode Gov. Brad Henry’s veto of a bill to require all women terminating a pregnancy to undergo a fetal ultrasound image an hour before an abortion is performed.

A New York reproductive rights group has filed a lawsuit challenging the law and asking a judge to halt enforcement of the law until the litigation is resolved.

A hearing in the case is set for Monday in an Oklahoma County District Court.

At the Tulsa clinic, which also offers birth control services and has an adoption agency on site, employees began complying with the new law Tuesday. Doctors who don’t comply with the law could face fines up to $100,000 or prosecution.

"We weren’t sure when they would vote, and we were pretty sure it would go through. We complied all day yesterday,” Meek said.

Ultrasounds are performed on women seeking abortions at the Tulsa clinic, Meek said.

The imaging is used to determine the gestational age of a fetus and to make sure the woman does not have a tubal pregnancy.

The law allows women to avert their eyes.

At the clinic, the image was placed in the woman’s line of sight and she is given a description of the fetal development to include presence of organs, limbs and cardiac function.

Some women closed their eyes and turned their heads away, Meek said.

"The doctors are just telling them this is a new law that we have to give them a detailed description, and we apologize for that,” she said.

The staff is required to record the time, and the women must sign a certificate that says they were properly shown the image. That form goes in their medical chart.

"It’s like they don’t think women have given serious thought and consideration before they walk through our doors,” Meek said.

Strictest in country

An existing law requires women to receive counseling and wait 24 hours before having an abortion. In Oklahoma, there are three clinics licensed by the state Health Department to perform abortions.

Two of the three clinics are challenging the new ultrasound law.

In 2009, 6,974 abortions were performed in Oklahoma, according to preliminary figures from the Health Department. That’s an increase of 850 from the 2008 figures.

Proponents of the new law say its aim is to make sure women have "full and complete information prior to the irrevocable act of abortion of an unborn child,” said Tony Lauinger, chairman of Oklahomans for Life.

Oklahoma’s ultrasound law is the nation’s strictest abortion ultrasound law, said Stephanie Toti, attorney with the Center for Reproductive Rights, which is challenging it.

At least a dozen other states have abortion ultrasound laws, but none of the laws mandate that a woman must be shown the image like Oklahoma’s law, said Toti, who is also representing the clinics in the legal challenge.

"It’s very difficult to force them to do it,” Toti said.

"The law says they have to place the image in the patient’s view. It’s humiliation for the patient to have to cover her eyes. The physician has to describe what is being shown. It’s really destructive to the physician-patient relationship, when they have to show you an image you don’t want to see and describe the image even though you’ve told them you don’t want to hear it.

"That kind of disregard for a patient’s choices violates principles of medical ethics.”

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Sarah - posted on 06/18/2010

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Obviously, quite a few people need to educate themselves regarding the laws of abortion in their area. As far as I'm aware, ALL states require an ultrasound to verify gestational age, bt they don't require the woman to view it. The idea that so many seem to think that getting an abortion is like going to the drive-thu carwash is absurd! It's a medical procedure like any other, so obviously consent and understanding is required. Of course some places are better than others, all doctors are not created equally.
Or is it that we're assuming that all women who would choose abortion are to stupid to know what pregnancy means? Because the unwashed masses clearly need a visual representation in order to understand. In which case a big ThankYou to the religious right for helping the poor little dumb girls. *eye roll*
Also, I suggest you educate yourselves regarding the realities of your state's foster program- personally,I wouldn't send my dog to foster care, the statistics showing the abysmal failure of foster care are across the board and show children who grow up there turn into criminals at worst and failures at best. The overpopulation of children in foster care is the reason so many fall between the cracks.
I'm not even touching the reasons a woman chooses to abort because I could go on forever. But, I guess no one really cares about that anyway, as long as a child is born, who cares?
As a side note, if all the pro-lifers are so convinced that every pregnancy should result in a child, maybe they should put their money where their mouths are and start adopting???

Joanna - posted on 06/18/2010

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For everyone talking adoption... it really IS a wonderful thing, but coming from a birthmother who gave her child up for adoption instead of having an abortion, it is a tough thing to live with - carrying a child to term and then parting with it. Sure, the child is alive and happy, but the mother will still have a lot of emotional turmoil to deal with.

Jessica - posted on 06/15/2010

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Sounds more like a "we will guilt you into keeping the baby if we can" as opposed to "we want you to be informed..'

[deleted account]

Didn't they ever stop to think that the possible reason for an increase in abortions from 2008 to 2009 was because of the lovely state the economy continues to be in??? There's a whole lot of people who get pregnant and $$$ is the first thing that pops up, how the hell am I going to pay for this??? IDK. I remember learning about different stages of the fetus in sex ed...maybe if we would drop the stupid abstinence only education plan and go for a more comprehensive sex ed class we would have less abortions to worry about from the get go!

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[deleted account]

As this is another old thread, I am going to lock it, please feel free to start a new one on this topic if you want to continue debating this.

Thanks
Toni
Mod

Kristy - posted on 03/07/2011

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I LOVE this law! I honestly wish it was enforced everywhere, something inside a woman changes the first time you see that child and hear that heartbeat... I know someone who had an abortion, and I can never see her the same way... She wasnt "ready" to be a mom, but she was ready and willing to have unprotected sex... What does she go out and do every weekend? Party. Thats why she wasnt "ready" to be a mom, she would rather try to be a teenager for a few more years. This law wasnt enforced for her, maybe if it had been a baby wouldnt have been murdered.

Jasmine - posted on 07/17/2010

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I think the major mentality behind laws like this is that women apparently are incapable of thoroughly thinking through the decision the have an abortion. It's insulting to women. Unfortunately there are women who are on the fence but seek an abortion because of pressure from the father or others but that is why clinics have them meet with a counselor first.

LaCi - posted on 07/12/2010

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The effectiveness of hormonal methods of birth control also decreases when you're overweight, most are considerably less effective if a woman weighs more than 180lbs, as of 2002 the average weight of the american woman was 165lbs, so there are a LOT of women over that mark.

[deleted account]

Not only does birth control fail (even when used properly), there are woman that are allergic, new birth controls entering the market that have not been tested properly that are causeing severe irreversable damamge including death, if your a smoker you run the risk of stroke or worse (dont start any of that they shouldnt be smokers shit, because thats a choice as well and a legal one). Abortion as a means of birth control is stupid and irresponsable, have one and learn a leasson, but the ones haveing multiple abortions are few and far between. But for a young woman that is scared, been raped, illequiped to raise a child and so on, makes a consious choice to terminate the pregnancy, then she doesn't need abunch of self righteous "Im better than you because I had my baby, I may not be able to feed it but it's alive" woman calling her a murderer or anything else. It's noy anyones business what someone does with their life or body. I don't care if she is sleeping with every guy on the high school footbal team, thats her freakin business and not anybody elses.

I am truly amazed that so many woman, that have never been in the shoes of a woman faced with the possiblity of having an abortion mind you, could even form an opinion on something they no nothing about. Woman not educated on the subject, except for the propaganda they've read online or what their minister scared them into beleiveing. How one can say horrible things about a person they dont even know, not knowing where they came from or what hells they have endured. And worse not careing for their fellow woman enough to even try to understand. How sad that many of you beleive that if you follow the bibles teaching you will be saved and one day be in heaven, yet you only follow the teaching you want, like though shalt not judge. If one of these woman came to you and begged for help in return she wouldn't have an abortion, if only their was someone that could help get her on her feet even though the baby in her belly is her fathers that has been raping her since she waas 5 years old. Most of you wouldnt do a damn thing, just tell her your sorry then talk about her to your church group like she was that weeks gossip. What about the crack head that doesnt want her baby to be born an addict, would you like to take that baby in? There are plenty of prphans in the world, plenty of unwanted children that need to be taken care of, help them have a happy life.

Next their will be an uproar for mandated sterilization for welfare mothers, wooohoo more persecution for the poor, let's have a party.

LaCi - posted on 07/12/2010

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" if they don't want to get pregnant then they need to use either birth control and/or condoms! "

Condoms and birth control fail, genius.

Terrie - posted on 07/12/2010

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I actually agree with the law... there isn't reason any woman should ever get an abortion... if they don't want to get pregnant then they need to use either birth control and/or condoms!

As for incest/rape well........ I'm not to sure about them.... but
my bestfriend was raped by her step-dad & she kept the baby & her mother raised it as her own...

I know 7 women who have had abortions & they didn't think long & hard about what they were doing they found out there were pregnant & went as soon as they could to abort. Now 4 of those 7 can't get pregnant bescause of problems with the abortion.

Sometimes women don't think about the LONG term issues that come with have an abortion... If they have to hear & view what their baby looks like before they get their abortion then GOOD! they need to be aware that they are killing an innoccent child!

(This is just my personal view & personal opinion)

[deleted account]

This is HORRID and CRUEL. Most women that have an abortion think long and hard about THEIR DESCISION. They DO realize what is in THEIR BODY and their is a fetus with a heart beat. To assume that they don't realize they have a baby growing and forming in their body is a little presumptuous. How would anyone know what goes through the mind of a woman thats contemplating an abortion. The only thing happening here is pure vendictive cruelty by anti-abortion government offiials that are more than likely baseing their desician on religous beleifs, after all that is how these laws come about and Oklahoma is known as the buckle of the bible belt. Keep church out of my government.

Stephanie - posted on 07/11/2010

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Nobody is putting words in anyone's mouth here. It is notably a common controversy with feminists as there are several websites dedicated solely to the topic. Hence why I asked the question. Do you seriously need to belittle people to make yourself feel better with your silly little comments.

Charlene - posted on 07/06/2010

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Okay, PRO CHOICE DOES NOT EQUAL PRO ABORTION.
I don't care if you are of the opinion that it does, because when I say I am pro-choice, I KNOW that I am not PRO ABORTION. And I don't think any of the pro-choice gals here are either.

And as for your silly little question;
"Why do so many of you argue for abortions because it's "your body" but then say prostitution is immoral?"

How do you know that us 'pro-choicers' say that? DON'T put words in my mouth, because I don't give a rat's behind.
If a woman wants to be a prostitute, if a woman NEEDS to be a prostitute to make a living, then it's HER body, HER CHOICE.
I would like to actually see prostitution regulated so that the women who do it will be protected. It's been around forever so it's not as if it's going to go away.

[deleted account]

Closed minded intolerance= Ignorance IMO

Good thing not everyone shares your opinion...Or I would be barefoot and in the kitchen where a woman belongs, am I right?

Stephanie - posted on 07/06/2010

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Meghan - pro-choice = pro abortion IMO

You're 100% correct, I can't find you a law that says abortion is murder, that's the whole shame of this. Without doing any "Googling" the closest "law" I can come up with is how people who kill (murder, auto accidents etc) are sometimes charged with two murders? I know that's not how the law is worded but it's almost like saying it's ok if an unwanted baby is murdered but not a wanted baby. Obviously there a ways to manipulate every crime and every law; if the murder of innocent children isn't the biggest example I don't know what is.

[deleted account]

AND....If abortion WAS murder, it would be illegal, and since it is not, then it is NOT murder. It is NOT fact that it is murder ~ it is opinion. Show where or what laws state it is so.

LaCi - posted on 07/06/2010

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murderers aren't actually sentenced to death every day in America, it's a pretty rare occurrence to sentence someone to death.





And, as I posted in the thread dedicated to that now, I'm all for hookers AND abortion.



Being prochoice does not mean you're a feminist.

Stephanie - posted on 07/06/2010

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Oh And BTW: I have every desire in the world to adopt in the future (As of now, I'm 21 and settling into adult hood if you will and would like my one biological child to be school age as well). And because I was a teenage "victim of the foster system" and understand the unfortunate "I only want an infant" mentality I would like to work primarily with older school age and teen children. I also feel as though we (as a country) need to encourage local adoption and make adoption much less expensive as it currently is.

Stephanie - posted on 07/06/2010

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Your sarcasm would be correct. I have zero problems with a hike in my taxes to collectively (As a country) raise these (Sadly) unwanted children. Unfortunately your speaking to the wrong Pro Baby person here because I do think in said "terms" I'm also in full support of greater funding in sex ed and access to contraceptives. Perhaps then we wouldn't have such a genocide on our hands.



Edited To Say:



"Drains on the system" I pay outrageous taxes right NOW for our current "drains on the system"

Jenny - posted on 07/05/2010

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I'm sure you have no problem paying more taxes to support those unwanted children who would likely be drains on the system? You don't think of babies in those terms right? Pro-lifers love babies SO much they'll gladly fork over more cash to raise them to adulthood. Or for acces to birth control. Or for increased access to sex education for youth.

Stephanie - posted on 07/05/2010

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Save me, seriously!: Really I could care less if a selfish woman decided to use a coat hanger or throw herself down a flight of stairs possibly injuring herself. (I know this is harsh) but if you have decided it's okay to murder a child - murderer's are sentenced to death every day in this country - what's the difference? And I've always been curious about this, hopefully the "pro-choice" advocates and other feminists could help with this: Why do so many of you argue for abortions because it's "your body" but then say prostitution is immoral? Do you essentially "own" your uterus but not your vagina? I've always just wondered what pro-choice/feminist advocates say about that?

Gina - posted on 07/05/2010

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Women have been fighting for years to have the rights to be treated fairly,and to be able to make choices. I won't let anybody tell me what I choose for me is wrong or murder. When abortion was illegal, women went to desperate lengths to get them, but they didn't stop. Making them illegal again is taking away my rights, making me watch the ultrasound is abusing the rights that my mother and grandmother fought so hard for.It's MY body and no way in hell can someone tell me what to do with it. I don't agree with abortion, I could never have one but I believe it's every women's right to choose what she wants to do with her body, Why do people want to take away that right? Yes I agree the fetus should not be aborted but if the woman doesn't want a baby should she have it anyway knowing she'll be a bad mum? or give it up for adoption with soo many children already with no homes. I don't know but I do know this or even banning abortion is not the answer.

Charlene - posted on 07/04/2010

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I've been trying to avoid this thread, just because of some of the disgusting attitudes I've seen in here, but I just have to say something.

I know three women who have had both an abortion and put a child up for adoption. All three of them had said that the adoption is a lot harder on them mentally, emotionally and physically than the abortion was. They all have said that they regret the adoption everyday, but the abortion, while they do feel sad every once in a while, it's not a crippling regret.

They went through much more counselling (both before and after) with the abortion to make sure it was the right decision FOR them. There was no way that something like this would have changed their minds, but I am positive that it would make them feel guiltier than they already felt.

What good is something like this if it doesn't change minds?

LaCi - posted on 07/04/2010

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Murder is unlawful, abortion is legal, therefore abortion is not murder.

Dani - posted on 07/04/2010

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I wish this law was everywhere, fair enough a percentage of the population are having an abortion because of rape or disabilities, but what all you pro choice are forgetting about ar the women who use abortions as their birth control, i know a girl who has just had number three at 19, its sick!! One may well be an accident a failed birth control, but two of three is just ridiculous obviously that birth control didnt work GET ANOTHER ONE! These babies are innocent, these girls are the people in the wrong, i seriously think people like that should be banged up, ITS MURDER!

LaCi - posted on 07/04/2010

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Blah clothes hangers. I'd probably just go to a bar and pick a fight, or ten, hoping to be punched in the stomach repeatedly, you could do that every friday night. Surely weekly beatings would do the trick.

Ashley - posted on 07/04/2010

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Well then dont respect my opinion!!!! Its still my opinion whether you respect it or not and nothing anyone says can change my opinion because its the way i feel and that wont change. If a woman would resort to clothes hangers to kill her baby then that is one sick puppy...

Heather - posted on 07/04/2010

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Why do some women just forget that there actually was a time when abortion was Illegal??? It didnt work, and woman still did self abortions and many woman died right along with the fetus' they were trying to abort.
What is so hard to grasp about the fact that legal or not, they will still happen? The only difference is now that abortion is legal, woman dont have to use coat hangers, or throw themselves down a flight of stairs, or pay a back alley abortionist to perform the procedure in unsanitary conditions causing infection and death, and most importantly, woman have control over their own body and the decisions regarding it.
Women can go to a clinic, receive counseling, and have the procedure done by a qualified Dr. in a clean, sanitary setting that is regulated by the government. This is the only difference between abortion being legal and illegal. Making abortion illegal will not stop abortion...thats a fact that has already been proven...seriously, forcing a woman to listen to a dr. describe what they see in an ultrasound will not make a difference, if you read the second paragraph of the OP, it said that even though some women cried after the ultrasound, none changed their minds...it is a very personal and emotional decision, and once again I say, just because you (the proverbial you) wouldnt do it does not make it wrong and if you have never been in a situation where you need to make this difficult decision, then really, you have no frame of reference and I cant respect your opinions.

Ashley - posted on 07/04/2010

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Well first of all if abortion was illegal then the places that offer wouldn't beable to do it.....Someone would have to go black market on it..Whoever came up with abortion was absurd...I am totally against it and everyone has their opinion I am not going to argue with anyone about my opinion I am just putting my two cents in...To me its murder. You want to kill an innocent baby who didn't ask to be made thats ridiculous to me. I think its great they have to describe what they see in the ultrasound maybe it will eventually make a difference.

Heather - posted on 07/04/2010

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Ahhhh...I knew I was avoiding this thread for a reason, and then, like always it pulled me right in lol
The part of the law that makes it mandatory to get a US before an abortion to check the gestational age and make sure it is not a tubal is required and necessary. The part that makes the US tech or Dr. have to give the details of the scan is just absurd! The fact that Dr. can be fined if they dont do it is disgusting. I think its interesting that the article mentions that the clinics have on site adoption agencies...adoptions make alot more money than abortions. Just sayin'.

I think there is emotional pain that can result from either decision...my mother had a little girl 37 years ago and had to give her up for adoption, and my mother has NEVER got over it. It does not matter if it is an abortion or adoption, they are not easy decisions, and honestly adoption, to me is the harder of the two. I dont think I could carry my baby for 9 months and feel it move and watch it grow and give birth to the baby, hold it for a few hrs...and just hand that baby over.

I guess it is easy for those woman who have never been faced with this very hard and heart breaking decision to sit in front of their computer and type mean and hateful things against woman who have had to deal with this in real life. If people are so desperate to be parents, then how about adopting a older child...there are TONS of children over the age of 2 who would love to have a forever family, but unfortunately, these kids will end up growing up in the system and many will be abused along the way...but these so called "desperate" people choose to go on waiting lists for years for a new born, or pay tens of thousands of dollars to adopt babies from other countries...that seems pretty selfish to me...more selfish than a woman who wants a abortion!

Sarah - posted on 07/03/2010

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wow- this conversation certainly took a turn for the militant right-wing.
TG Obama is getting some good supreme court justices in who will overturn this Clearly Unconstitutional bit of shoddy legislation

Amanda - posted on 07/02/2010

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not saying that i agree with the abortion should be illegal comment, but the suicide it would apparently lead to would be a nice way for population control. if you are the person that would be dumb enough to give yourself an abortion, you pretty much deserve to die because you are an idiot...

Jenny - posted on 07/02/2010

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How would you outlaw abortion Ashley? Fine mothers who have one? Imprison pregnant women until they give birth? All that will happen with a situation like that is the rates of D&C's and suicides will rise dramatically. Pro choice is the ONLY rational outlook on abortion. Because if you are pro-life, don't have an abortion. I'll be damned if ANYONE out there figures they have authority over MY body though. Hell no.

Ashley - posted on 07/02/2010

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I just think that abortion should be outlawed everywhere...to me it might as well be murder....If you don't want to have a baby then take necessary precautions and if the precautions fail and you don't want the baby then give the baby up for adoption to a nice, loving family who wants children..

Kimberly - posted on 07/02/2010

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They must think since this took place more women/girls will decide to keep the baby in return it's just going to make them feel worse and have even more problems in the future deeling with it. However, I'm 99.9% against abortions so I say thumbs up for this law the women/girls should've made better choices and kept there legs closed if they didn't want a baby!!

Ps. the other .1% was if someone had got raped then it should apply and only as early as finding out!

Lady - posted on 07/02/2010

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Yes you did it was the one where she told you to keep your legs shut!! She also said some other not very nice things - that's the one that has been deleted - nothing new you've missed!!!

LaCi - posted on 07/02/2010

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"Awww. How sad that some women manage to feel guilty for mudering an innocent little baby. An innocent little baby that many infertile people would be desperate to love as their own. Our culture trains us to be so selfish that we honestly believe murder is better than adoption because it's 'covenient'."

First and foremost If I ever decided to have an abortion I doubt that I would feel an ounce of guilt. Secondly, I'll give a shit more about infertile couples when all the unwanted orphans in the world have been adopted.

LaCi - posted on 07/02/2010

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Boooo Gillian always deletes the fun! I hadn't even seen that one yet ;(

Lady - posted on 07/02/2010

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I deleted the post because it was very offensive so sorry some of your answers don't make sense but I could not leave it there to insult anymore women!!

Sally - posted on 07/01/2010

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Awww. How sad that some women manage to feel guilty for mudering an innocent little baby. An innocent little baby that many infertile people would be desperate to love as their own. Our culture trains us to be so selfish that we honestly believe murder is better than adoption because it's 'covenient'.

Sarah - posted on 07/01/2010

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Gee- I'm SO glad the mature, intelligent, thoughtful debate hads begun.
Thanks for reminding me why I think pro-lifers are Crazy!
Assumption Comfirmed!
Guess I'm just a murdering whore- so my opnion doesn't matter anyway.

LaCi - posted on 07/01/2010

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Wow, I say how dare anyone tell me to keep my legs shut. My sex life in my committed, long term relationship is my business. And what happens over the course of time if my methods of birth control fail, also my business.

Jenny - posted on 07/01/2010

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Oh if only the world was so black & white. Sorry girls but you don't get a say with what happens to my uterus.

Gina - posted on 07/01/2010

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I think this is so cruel, most women who choose to have abortions have thought long and hard about it and this is just punishing them. They have to have an ultrasound but to make them watch it? Why put them through that pain.I couldn't ever have an abortion, but I believe it's every woman's right to have a choice, this is messing with that right.

Stephanie - posted on 06/30/2010

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Ok, so I know most people aren't going to like this but I champion these new laws and the only shame in any of this is that it's not taking place everywhere. I hear all day long about the "women's" rights and how it's HER body and so on and so forth. It's BS! When you have a baby inside you it's not YOUR BODY. Get over it. And then "pro-choicers" bring out the rape/incest card. And this topic hits extremely close to home, however the child that resulted in this horrific act is still part of you. The child (just like the woman) is an innocent victim. WE DON'T KILL INNOCENT VICTIMS! Hell, we don't even kill the rapist. Their is such thing as adoption in these circumstances. Nor do I care what horrific, psychological effects these new laws will have on women who choose to murder their child. No one thinks about what the child feels as it is being murdered. I champion Oklahoma and the good people who went out and voted for these new laws.

Rosie - posted on 06/18/2010

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first i would like to say that i am not religous, nor do i sway to the right (shutters), but seriously i just don't understand why this is so bad.

i know for me i couldn't do abortion or adoption, i chose to keep my unplanned baby (which came with a whole other set of emotional turmoil). i guess for ME, the most emotionally draining, horrible, torcherous (sp?) situation of all of those would be to kill a child that could've lived, could've made someone else happy, or even surprisingly made me happy, and have to live with knowing that for the rest of my life.

sure the child could've been placed in a horrible adoptive situation and if i were to do adoption i would always wonder about that was well, i'd always ask myself if i did the right thing. but i just don't see that situation being as emotionally damaging than permanently taking the opportunity to maybe possibly be happy away from the child, and myself.

once again i feel that the womans choice is always first and foremost of importance, but i feel there are ALOT of women out there who aren't thoroughly thinking out their choices. my experience with 2 of the 3 people i know who have had abortions regretting it has led me to make this decision. maybe if i had known more people that hadn't regretted what they did my opinion might be different-who knows. but it is what it is, lol!

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