Pedophiles and their civil right to "love" children.

Emma - posted on 04/10/2010

Please that whole it happened to me excuse is old and the only a very small number of people who where abused go on to abuse themselves. Every Sicko pulls that one out for the sympathy vote. To use it as a blanket statement is to Cast a shadow over every person who was abused unfairly they have dealt with enough without that the assumption that they are more likely to do it to there kids as it happend to them.
If this statement was true we would have a huge amount of woman sex offenders which we do not, thankfully.

LaCi - posted on 04/09/2010

That's an unfounded generalization. Not all pedophiles were abused or assaulted.



Pedophiles have significantly different amounts of white matter in their brains. To assume its NOT biologically driven is naive. I'm also tired of the cyclical idea of abuse.

Kristin - posted on 04/09/2010

Pedophiles are created, not born. They were assaulted by someone else as a child and taught that it was okay by their abuser.

A child cannot make a decision regarding their sexuality until almost legal adulthood, and then many are still confused. Pedophiles emply insidious and manipulitive tactics to engage these children in acts that are meant for sexually mature individuals. Many of these tactics were used on them during their formative years and that is why they think it's okay.

Personally, I don't think it's okay. If someone were to touch one of my kids in that way, well, let's just say that they had better pray to all the gods that have ever benn prayed to and will be prayed to that I am never left alone with them. It is wrong to take that innocence from a child by any means.

Jackie - posted on 04/09/2010

I think I agree with Shelby. I honestly do not think that a "non-acting" pedophile is going to come forward and admit that he WANTS to take liberties with children so that he can get treatment. NO he's not! She's right, they're only non-acting until they have their first victim.

Emma - posted on 04/09/2010

well if they are infarct born like that, if they think the "Right to love children" defence is going to wash with any parent i think you where born with a lot more wrong with you than you think.
As if you are "normal" in all other areas you would surly realise that the "right to love children" can never be granted as this would be removing the child's rights.

Strange how i was born straight but yet do not go round having sex with non consenting men.
Even though Was born liking men.........
Personally i think if you molest a child you should revive the death penalty end of story as if you where born this way just like you will never turn me gay you can not be turned into anything else.

LaCi - posted on 03/19/2010

It's hard for me to comprehend, really. I think its wrong and disgusting. That comparison between pedophilia and homosexuality has been an argument of nambla for quite some time. I try to see things from all points of view, even though in this particular situation its really difficult. I DO think its possible that people are born this way, and i do think its possible to just acquire a fetish. There are also cultures that endorse this type or similar types of sexual behavior, places where this is just normal and natural and I absolutely can not judge that because i will never fully comprehend their cultural practices. Homosexuality was also considered a psychological thing at one point, maybe this really is biologically driven. In no way do I condone or advocate harming a child, ever. I'm just noting that the entire subject is complicated and quite sad. Maybe they just need to move to a different type of society where they aren't criminalized for what they do. nambla endorses mutually accepted relationships between men and boys, they don't see the relationship as being harmful to the consenting boy. It's just.. complicated and hard to process.

Charlene - posted on 03/11/2010

'There is no way to prevent them if there was they would have found it by now'



You're kidding right? I guess they might as well give up looking for ways to prevent/cure MS, Alzheimers, CP etc. then because 'if there was a way to prevent it, they would have found it by now.' The brain is the most complicated organ. It is continuously being researched though and new discoveries are made all the time.

Susanne - posted on 03/11/2010

There is no way to prevent them if there was they would have found it by now and we wouldnt be having this discussion. The only thing we can do is stop them hurting anyone again.

Shelby - posted on 03/10/2010

QUOTE
"I don't think that you guys are getting that we want to PREVENT victims. Do you not realise that in order to 'lock them up and throw away the key' they have to actually commit the crime? Do you really want to let another child be abused by someone like that? Because I sure don't. "
END QUOTE

Here is the problem all together. EVERY MOLESTER HAS AT ONE TIME BEEN "NON ACTING" There is ALWAYS a first victim. The fact that they have to commit the crime first is the problem. In MY opinion, The moment anyone goes into a therapist's office and says "I fantasize about having sex with kids" They should be locked away. PERIOD. I mean if I go to my therapist and over and over talk about my obsession with killing my first husband, or going into a mall with an AK-47 and mowing down every man I see, over and over...Do you think they'll let me continue to walk around knowing that? Sure in a perfect world these FREAKS could be fixed, and then there would be no more victims...But, we don't live in a perfect world. Have you EVER heard of ANY mental illness that has a CURE? Because I haven't. Sure there is treatment, therapy...and relapse. Yes, relapse. In the case of a schizophrenic, They'll lose touch with reality, In case of someone with Bi-Polar, it could mean a severe depressive episode or mania...In the case of a pedophile, It means a innocent child harmed. Now, do YOU want to take that chance. Because I don't. That money is better used elsewhere. Why waste it on a handful of men/women supposedly wanting help...All the time they are still running around with these fantasies in their heads..Wanting to be close to a child, Do you want someone like that living down the street from your children? I don't. There is NO way possible that spending oodles of money on a handful of people are going to prevent this crime from EVER happening. And you know what, Yeah that sucks. More than anyone who has never been through it will ever know. Thinking I want to see any children go through this is just adding insult to injury. There is no way to prevent victims. There are thousands of people out there that will continue to hurt children, No matter what. Its a noble thought, but not feasible. That money has MUCH better purposes. I don't want this to go on and on...You obviously feel strongly for helping them out, to understand why they do it...for whatever reason. I am on the complete opposite side of the spectrum. I believe the moment they confess to wanting to hurt an innocent child, then they have betrayed their trust with humanity and should be put away...Chemical castration...Whatever, I don't have the answers but I know damn good and well that I don't want them walking the streets, ESPECIALLY after admitting their desires.
I'm sorry that you are misunderstanding here, I am not saying by any means that I don't UNDERSTAND your point...I'm just saying I don't think these freaks can be "fixed" Like any other mental illness (IF thats what it is) There is NO cure.

Charlene - posted on 03/10/2010

Also, I just want to reiterate that I am speaking about people who have the urges, know they are wrong and would like help. (And yes Shelby, I do believe that if they could come forward to get help, without fearing for their life or being locked up forever, that the ones who want it, would.)

I am not talking about those who have already committed the crime or those who think that they have any sort of 'right' to it. THOSE people should definitely be punished to the fullest extent of the law. IMO.

Charlene - posted on 03/10/2010

I don't think that you guys are getting that we want to PREVENT victims. Do you not realise that in order to 'lock them up and throw away the key' they have to actually commit the crime? Do you really want to let another child be abused by someone like that? Because I sure don't.

What we are saying is that there should be a program of some sort out there to help keep things like this happening to another innocent child. Is it wrong to want to keep children safe?

Susanne - posted on 03/10/2010

I totally 100% agree with Shelby lock them up throw away the key they dont deserve sympathy or understanding they dont deserve to live let alone anything else. I wonder how much sympathy and understanding any of you would have if your child was raped? Ask Sara Payne how she feels about it as she visits her daughters grave? I also think its quite insulting to child abuse victims that everyone assumes these pedophiles were abused as children either. Its about time we spent our sympathy and taxpayers money on victims instead of the sickos who make these children victims.

Shelby - posted on 03/09/2010

Just wanting to add something, There will NEVER be a cure-all ending to this. IF they are born like this...What makes anyone think that they will all come forward for help? How are you going to supposedly treat all "Pedophiles"? There will ALWAYS be child victims, That is the sad realization of it. There is no way to stop it. As a young victim, Do you have any idea how hard it was to find counseling with no insurance? Why spend a ton of money trying to figure out why they are the way they are? Spend the money where it needs to be spent...Enough facilities to keep them locked up longer, (forever sounds good), Money set aside for victims...for therapy then and in the future when it is really going to be needed, Spend that federal money for schools/facilities to have at least a minimal psychiatric evaluation on EVERYONE before they work with children, More money for more raising awareness at school, I know that while my molester sat in jail, getting 3 squares a day, with no responsibility whatsoever, Got out in less time than I've seen people get for selling a little marijuana, My WHOLE life was falling apart. I didn't get three squares a day, I could barely eat, I didn't sleep, I probably haven't really smiled in 20 years, Yet my abuser is grinning from ear to ear in his sex offender registry photo. Spend the money, the time, and the sympathy where it is needed most. Spend your time lobbying for stricter laws, tougher sentences, and harder questions to answer when these freaks are let out WAYYY before they should be.



I have NO sympathy for any of them. "acting" or "not"

Shelby - posted on 03/09/2010

It doesn't have to "sink" in for me...I simply don't agree with your thoughts on this...Thats allowed. While mental illness is a severe problem, EVERYONE now a days has a "mental illness" EVERY person I know that has ever had to go to a therapist for one reason or another has ended up being diagnosed with something... There is always a "name" for everything. If you ask me its just another thing cooked up starting with defense attorneys to get their client off... Its simple to get psychology to follow through. Now-a-days, NO ONE is ever responsible for their own doings. I simply don't follow the mumbo-jumbo b.s. of the whole situation. Its soooo much easier to swallow the entire situation thinking, Oh, they are just born that way... You can show me all the research they have, but as a victim...ITS A CROCK!!! I read all the time, follow the news like a hawk, There is not ONE single act of violence that doesn't at the end say "they suffered a mental illness" Has it ever occurred to anyone that some people are just BAD? Some people are actually just out to hurt people? There is not ALWAYS an explanation!!! People have different opinions ALL the time...COM especially!!! As a victim, the first and only of my molester(known I should say), I simply do NOT agree, will NOT accept this excuse, and to me a Pedophile is now, and always will be a child molester waiting for the right victim.

Krista - posted on 03/09/2010

Sigh....yes, Shelby. Because it's absolutely impossible for someone to have sympathy for the victims of child molestation, while still wishing that science could someday find an effective way to treat these people so as to eliminate those urges.

Just because someone gave it a "name" doesn't make it right...

Shelby - posted on 03/09/2010

Well, I'm sorry that you are offended, Yet did you take into account who YOU are offending with YOUR statements? Just because someone gave it a "name" doesn't make it right... What name (out of curiosity) is given to a rapist? What appropriate line can be drawn between a "pedophile" and a child molester? How many non-acting pedophiles do you know? Since you were so offended, since you think I said you think its o.k. to molest kids...(where did I say that?) I'll rephrase the question... Are you o.k. with a camp host/teacher being alone with your child...as long as he/she is a "non-practicing" pedophile?
Research in paraphillia? Personally I think money should be invested more wisely...Like institutions for these people, where they are locked away to never be able to hurt a child. I think its time we stand up and say enough is enough...What happened to just accepting what you've done? Why is it that everytime there is an actual victim, then the responsible party is "o.k." because now its a sickness, and it has a name...

Show me one group of so called "pedophiles" that have truly never harmed a child, and there isn't a victim who just hasn't come forward, (and this has to be proven) and I'll give you my right hand...

ALSO, if you re-read the original post, It is clearly about NAMBLA... She asked about whether there was an actual argument for them to be given a "civil right" to "love" children.

IN MY OPINION... a "non-acting" pedophile is simply waiting on the appropriate victim...He/She is the one who is even "more" scared of getting caught.

I think the sympathy should go where it is actually needed. The THOUSANDS of victims.

Krista - posted on 03/09/2010

Shelby, you're putting words into our mouths. Nobody is saying that it is OKAY to molest kids -- come on! What I'm talking about is how there needs to be more research done into paraphilias, so that NON-ACTING pedophiles who are distressed by their urges can be effectively treated -- maybe even cured.

Now ACTING on the urge, like those in NAMBLA would advocate, is disgusting, criminal and completely inexcusable -- we're all in agreement on that, so please don't offer such a gross insult to my character by claiming that I think it's okay for anybody to molest kids.

Charlene - posted on 03/09/2010

Shelby, our posts don't refer to the NAMBLA group. We are talking specifically of those who KNOW their thoughts and feelings are wrong. The people in the NAMBLA group do not think this way, so obviously we are not talking about them.

Shelby - posted on 03/09/2010

Have any of you who sympathize with these people even been to the NAMBLA website? These are not pedophiles looking for help so they do not act on it...These are sick twisted perverts who are proud of who they are, and looking for someone to change the laws so they can go on with sexual relations with CHILDREN whatever age they desire!!! Do any of you have children? Are you o.k. with your child going to a camp, or school or whatever knowing that they have teachers who believe this crap???
I don't give a rat's ass what made my abuser do what he did. I could care less whether he was born that way, or made that way...The fact of the matter remains that MY life will never be the same. HE took something away from me that I can NEVER get back. Thats supposed to be o.k. because he couldn't help it??? Bullshit! Let one freak touch one of my kids and I'll plant a bullet in the middle of their forehead quicker than you can blink...Maybe I'll hire a NAMBLA attorney to defend me, since I was "born with" homicidal tendencies. I just couldn't help myself... My rage which pre-existed was triggered by an act of violence towards my child.

I say offer them the SAME options that my molester offered me. NOT A DAMN THING. Offer them the same respect my molester had for me...NONE. They can all rot in hell as far as I'm concerned.

Krista - posted on 03/09/2010

I believe by no means that they are born with it. That is just an excuse. That way they don't have to be accountable for their actions. I think any convicted pedophile should be behind bars forever!!

Charlene - posted on 03/09/2010

And April.. Stockholm Syndrome is NOT the same thing as consenting. Anyone who suffers from it is still not capable of consenting.

Charlene - posted on 03/09/2010

I feel that maybe some pedophiles might be born with it, but I think that for the majority of them, something happened to themselves.

I agree with Krista. There needs to be more services available to help treat these people BEFORE they act upon these urges. Unfortunately, facilities like that would NOT be safe for those who WANT to seek treatment. There are too many redneck yokels who don't care whether or not someone is trying to get help so they DON'T act out and they automatically go into lynch mob mode and want to castrate/kill the people who even THINK about it. You can't help what you think or feel, but you can try supress those feelings/thoughts so that you don't act on them. Think about it.. have you ever had any inappropriate thoughts? Maybe you pictured your good looking teacher naked or you had feelings for a married man? Just because you had those thoughts doesn't mean that you had to act on them. You knew they were wrong so you didn't.

This is what I am talking about. There are people out there that have the thoughts, know they are wrong, do everything they can to NOT act on them and would probably take any help they can get to change the way they feel. We need to help these people and not automatically condemn.

I think if there were places where people could go to get treatment without fearing for their life, we would have fewer victims.



I hope that all made sense.. sorry if I rambled.. I didn't get much sleep last night.

Shelby - posted on 03/09/2010

QUOTE
"A child CAN agree to it. It's called Stockholm syndrome....it's when a child (or an adult) is held captive (and sometimes raped/tortured) for a long period of time but does not try to escape even when he/she has had multiple opportunities. Instead he/she defends the captor and even acts like he/she loves the captor."
END QUOTE

These people suffer undeniable harm done over a period of time... TO me this is not an acceptable example of a child consenting to be abused...Thats just a disgusting claim.
I pray that you nor anyone you know ever have to be abused over and over and over...To never have to hear anyone say "I'll kill you", To never have to be reliant on the person who has completely destroyed the rest of your life...for food, or the ability to see sunlight, or to use the restroom.
Making any excuse for these sick perverted bastards is absurd, disgusting, and an insult to victims everywhere.

Jennifer - posted on 03/08/2010

April I think what people mean is they can't "consent" to it as the age of consent is (in the UK) 16 years of age.

Kathy - posted on 03/08/2010

I don't know whether they're born this way or not, and I don't care. What I do know is that when they act on their desires they are not only inflicting violence on an innocent child but putting their own desires above anyone's rights. The short term effects of this on the child are horrendous; the long term effects can destroy that child's life.

April - posted on 03/08/2010

A child CAN agree to it. It's called Stockholm syndrome....it's when a child (or an adult) is held captive (and sometimes raped/tortured) for a long period of time but does not try to escape even when he/she has had multiple opportunities. Instead he/she defends the captor and even acts like he/she loves the captor.

Shannon - posted on 03/08/2010

I believe by no means that they are born with it. That is just an excuse. That way they don't have to be accountable for their actions. I think any convicted pedophile should be behind bars forever!!

Gina - posted on 03/08/2010

Jocelyn I understand what you mean now, i cant feel anything but angry about this. It kills me to see and read about abused children, even more when the animal who hurt them plays victim, but i understand you now thanks for clearing it up.

Jennifer - posted on 03/08/2010

In no way can you compare homosexuals to peadophiles! A child can't consent to the person abusing them. I think peadophiles do have a mental illness but they are not born this way but develop it for a reason - sometimes because they too were abused as a child. No they shouldn't be given civil rights - I believe any criminal in the UK is given too much in prison - Sky TV, the chance to do degrees etc. They are supposed to be serving a sentence not living the life of luxury!!! I think peadophiles should be locked up and the key thrown away!

Joanne - posted on 03/07/2010

As a victim I have absolutely NO sympathy for a pedophile who fails to control his urges.

The love between homosexuals is usually consensual. A child who is touched by a pedophile almost never agrees to it, so how can you compare?!

April - posted on 03/07/2010

i do think they are born that way...i think is a mental illness. i don't feel that comparing loving children to loving the same gender is appropriate. The love between homosexuals is usually consensual. A child who is touched by a pedophile almost never agrees to it, so how can you compare?!

Susanne - posted on 03/07/2010

Let them sign their petitions until they are blue in the face any one of them come near my kids and they wont be able to sign anything ever again.

Jocelyn - posted on 03/07/2010

Gina I'll try and clarify. I never said that it was all right for them to love children. I think it is horribly wrong and disgusting. I said that I sympathize for them because they can't help it. I believe that their problem is not fixable, there is nothing they can do. They can go to therapy and counseling and get chemically castrated, and the urge will still be there. Now I'm not taking about the pedophiles that rape and abuse and kill these children. Those people can burn in hell for all I care. I'm talking about the ones that KNOW that what they are doing/feeling is wrong, the ones that try to get help, the ones that decided they will never act on their urges. It is those people that I sympathize for, their life must be a living hell. It's like what Krista said before
Quote:
I agree that it's a sickness, and that if someone has those urges and needs help controlling them, then that help should be made available. There are probably a lot of non-acting pedophiles out there who struggle mightily but still manage to continue to do what's right, and maybe instead of vilifying them for having those urges in the first place (which they cannot really help), society should make sure that there are resources made available to them (counselling, support groups, hotlines) that will help them deal with those urges and find ways to keep them under control.

Now obviously, any pedophile who ACTS on those urges is a whole different story.
End Quote

Kate CP - posted on 03/07/2010

I think I just threw up in my mouth a little. I think pedophiles ARE sick and there isn't a cure. I'm all for forced castration for pedophiles. Cut 'em off and save the kids.

Shelby - posted on 03/07/2010

I can't believe I have read that "I feel sorry for them" or people sympathizing with them...Its disgusting.

Gina - posted on 03/07/2010

I'm sorry Jocelyn im confused about your saying .Is it alright that they"love' children because they cant help it? I dont see that as love and maybe if you met one child victim you will change your mind about they rights

Jocelyn - posted on 03/06/2010

I believe that pedophiles are born that way (the same way we are all born with sexual preferences). So I do sympathize (to a degree) with the people that happen to be pedophiles; it is not there choice, and yes they SHOULD have the right to love who ever they want (just like we have the right) but it will never happen. The difference being that other relationships (hetero or homo) are two CONSENTING ADULTS. A child just does not have the metal/physically maturity to make a decision to enter into a relasionship.

Gina - posted on 03/06/2010

Do the children matter here? because it seems to me that we are so worried that these padophiles have rights and support that we tend to forget what they have done.It's the children who have been abused that should have rights and be protected, once you cross that line with kids you should have no rights and i couldnt help myself doesnt cut it.Yes i abused the kid but i couldnt help it? please!!!!!!!!!

Catherine - posted on 02/28/2010

Paedophiles ARE born that way, but they are sick. I feel terrible for anyone born with a mental illness, but that doesn't mean I would ever allow them to indulge themselves.

An amazing film that addresses this issue is 'Little Children' with Kate Winslet, in which Jackie Earl Hailey turns in a riveting performance as a convicted paedophile returning to his neighbourhood after serving time. It's pretty intense stuff, and, as a mother, I found it difficult to imagine feeling sympathy for such a character, but he's pretty incredible.

Teresa - posted on 02/28/2010

I know. I said they might not be able to control their FEELINGS, but they sure better be able to control their ACTIONS or get help/locked up.



I have all kinds of inappropriate thoughts and feelings (definitely not in this category, of course) quite frequently, but I don't act on them.... never would.

Krista - posted on 02/27/2010

It depends on the severity, Jenny. Evidently there are varying degrees of it. Some have those urges (ranging from occasional to all-consuming), but know that they're wrong and are able to keep themselves from ever acting on them. And then of course, you have the ones who do actually act on them.

While feeling nothing but disgust for the latter group, I cannot help but feel a bit sorry for the former group. They are fully aware that those urges are wrong, and are often very distressed and upset by them, and wish nothing more than to be rid of them and to be normal. When I was talking earlier about support being needed, it was for those people. Often, however, they do not seek the help they need, because they are too ashamed to admit their paraphilia, even to a trusted medical professional.

It's a tricky situation -- I don't know what the answers are. I know that we can't arrest people for thoughts -- only deeds. And I also know that our society would be better if any and all disturbed individuals could receive the help they need before thoughts can BECOME deeds. But how to do this? That, I don't know.

Jenny - posted on 02/27/2010

Teresa, there is a very good chance that they cannot control their feelings. I'm sure they know it is wrong, yet they behave in that way anyways.

Geralyn - posted on 02/27/2010

I agree - its offensive to homosexuals and heterosexuals everywhere....

Teresa - posted on 02/27/2010

Whether they are born that way or not shouldn't make a difference... they CAN control what they do w/ those feelings and if they can't then they need locked up permanently. The children are the ones that need their rights protected... not the monsters that hurt them.

Jenny - posted on 02/27/2010

I think we don't have a clue why they are how they are. Therefore I vote we donate pedophiles to science so we can work discover the root cause or causes and reduce the chances of the behaviour occuring the future.

Chelle - posted on 02/27/2010

I don't think they were born that way at all. As a PP said I think they are made that way from abuse in their childhood. And children are not mature enough to enter a relationship or understand a relationship like that.



Also I have a question, why is it that sexual predators tend to be male rather than female? We know many of both males and females have been abused as children before so why is it that women tend to not repeat these actions as often as men do?

I am not saying that women don't do these things, some do, but the majority is male.

Stephany - posted on 02/27/2010

Homosexuality should never be compared to pedophilia. These are two entirely separate things, and it is offensive to homosexual people that they be mentioned in the same sentence.
Pedophiles, in my opinion, deserve nothing less than the death penalty. They can claim to be born with the urge to 'love' children, but what else would we allow? Would we allow serial killers to go free because they were born with the urge to kill? Or what about drunk drivers because they were born with the urge to drink alcohol? This is no different. Urge or not, it is illegal and morally reprehensible for an adult to engage in a sexual relationship with a minor. There is no such thing as legal consent.
On a side note, any sick bastard who ever tries to "love" one of my children had better pray to God that the police find him before I do.

Cassy - posted on 02/27/2010

This makes me sick! I totally agree with Joy baby rapers and homosexuals are not even on the same wave-length! They are not born with it, they go down that path themselves, whether it's because of their own abuse or another cause.

Sue - posted on 02/26/2010

5000 men are petitioning for civil rights to have sex with children?? What planet do they think they are on cos it sure as hell aint earth. Most of the criminals in prison believe the same thing because pedophiles get beaten within an inch of their life or even and inch past their life if put in main stream lockup and very often have to be separated.
There is nothing civil nor right about it.......

Yes it is a mental illness as to whether they are born that way ... its possible a few are however they would make up a minority. I believe more often than not they have been abused in some way or nurtured through society. Not all men who are abused feel a need to go have sex with a child though so there still has to be something within them that sparks that erg. No they will not win. One question I would like to ask any lawyer who represents them ..... if they have children or nieces/nephews would they be willing to let them have sex with one of these 5000 men?? I bet they would run for the hills.

Heather - posted on 02/26/2010

they are only born that way in that we are all born into sin.
but this is the kind of sin that would make me want to send them to hell on the fast train.
it's a perversion. they were probably abused and it twisted their souls, so now they think that's how relationships should be.
i'm sorry if they were abused first, but they know better and should find a way whether it be through counselling or castration to quell those urges.