Religion...

Kelly - posted on 03/18/2010

Gillian and Carol, I don't think my post was clear. I know it is possible to believe in God and not view premarital sex as sin, I even said in my post that I chose that as an example b/c it was considered sin in MOST main stream religions--not all of them. And I know that it is possible to think that premarital sex is immoral even when one does not believe in God, as I stated, I chose it because it was legal, meaning MOST (again, not all) people do not think there is anything immoral about it. I don't think most Christians follow the rules just because they fear Hell--in fact most of them DON'T follow the rules all the time. They try to follow moral rules just like you and I do because it is morally right.

Now, like I said, I'm very new to the church, but I think the Christian God forgives all sins if they ask Him to, so technically, they can do whatever the hell they want to, but they would feel guilty about some of those "not so immoral sins" that others would not experience guilt over.

I spent the past 20 years as an atheist and am less than a year into trying to believe there is a god. Like you, I used to think most Christians were less intelligent, judgmental, and hypocritical. Many are, which drives a lot of people away, but there is no scientific proof either way. Just like religions based on gods, even atheism is just a theory. We choose to believe the one we want to. Now, for those who say they "know" there is a god or "know" there is no god, sure, I wonder about those people because no one can actually KNOW either of those things.

Shavaune - posted on 03/18/2010

My parents were never really religious but my family is mostly Christian. We went to Sunday school (if we wanted to but never forced) with other members of my family like my grandma or my aunt. My husband is Catholic but he's not a regular church going kind of person either. He's also Native American so we teach our kids about traditional and spiritual believes of their ancestors as well. We teach our kids about God but not about any particular religion. I don't think it gives them any advantage but the ideals of the things that they teach are beneficial I think (like the 10 commandments). I think it's up to them to decide what they believe in and if it makes them a better person then I'm all for it. I personally believe in God but don't believe in organized religion if that makes any sense. I don't have any problem with regular church going people no matter what their religion is as long as they keep their judgments to themselves and don't bang on my door to preach at me.

Krista - posted on 03/18/2010

We all hope that our kids will grow up to share our worldview, at least to a certain degree. I'd have no problem with my kid becoming Christian, as long as he didn't become zealous and judgmental about it. But if he found Christ and that made him happy, and he didn't try to convert his agnostic mother and atheist father, then giddyup for him.

I'm pretty much of the philosophy: if it brings you joy, and if you can accept that it doesn't do a darned thing for me, then fill your boots.

Teresa - posted on 03/18/2010

No, there isn't any bashing. That's why I put hatred in quotes. It's the whole... 'fingers crossed he doesn't end up a Christian' and other similar comments I was referring to. Which is why I said I suppose it's fair. I was going to make a similar comment the other day, but then I thought about it in reverse and I would be devastated if the reverse were to occur and my children STOPPED believing just as many have said they wouldn't like it if their children STARTED believing.



It's just a bafflling concept to me just as it appears me believing so strongly is so bafflingly to others on this post. Nevermind, I don't even know what I'm trying to say anymore.

Lady - posted on 03/18/2010

I certainly don't have any hatred for christians I deffinitley will not be bringing up my children to hate anyone - but I do believe I KNOW the truth and hope that they can see that to and live happy productive lives.

Jenny - posted on 03/18/2010

What hatred? Not believing is a perfectly acceptable way of life. I don't see any bashing gonig on hear but a sharing of ways of life and belief systems.

Religion is subject to critical thought the same as any other topic on earth. I need something tangible to come to conclusion and religion does not provide that for me. I see what is occuring to the Texan education system because of religious ideals and it makes me very sad.

LaCi - posted on 03/18/2010

Hatred for christians is born from the hatred from christians. It's not just christians I hate. I'm not singling you guys out. I certainly don't hate you as an individual. If christians, and others, didn't want to control the universe I would be completely indifferent to them. I might even like them... I like the Dalai Lama. He's always a nice guy.

Teresa - posted on 03/18/2010

All the 'hatred' for Christians on this post is incredibly saddening. I guess it's only fair though since it would absolutely break my heart if my children ever came to a point in their lives where they stopped believing in God and all the wonderful things He has done for us and continues to do for us every day.

LaCi - posted on 03/18/2010

I'm an atheist. I hope my son is an atheist, but he has to find his own path. If he's not an atheist I hope he moves on to something I respect, fingers crossed he doesn't end up a Christian, but it's his path, not mine.

Belinda - posted on 03/18/2010

I don't think morals come from believing or not believing in "God"....

Shannon - posted on 03/18/2010

WOW!! After reading a bunch of these posts, I'm shocked at how many UN-believers there are. :-(

Shannon - posted on 03/18/2010

We are born-again Christians & my children are completely involved in the church. My 4 yr old goes to AWANA, Bible study & we do a family Bible study every night. She knows who God is & already accepts it as truth. I just pray that it will stay with her. :-)

Lady - posted on 03/18/2010

Kelly I think it is very sad and rather immature if the only reason people behave themselves and don't "sin" is because they think there is some higher being watching over them or because they think they'll go to hell. It's like a child who will only behave when the parents are standing over them. As a society we need to follow rules and care for each other or we would never grow or survive. This should be the reason to live a moral responsable life - not because of fear or because it's what a book tells us that's what we are supposed to do.
Morals and social responsability were around a long time before any religion and unlike religion are able to adapt and grow to suit the times - if we were all to follow the morals of the bible we would still be stoning women and cutting off theifs hands.
People seem to think morals come from religion because if you have been brought up with parents who follow a religion then generally they teach you morals from the religious point of veiw. If you don't have religion it is still very possible to teach morals and moral behaviour without having to install the fear of the wrath of god or chance of going to hell.

Jennifer - posted on 03/17/2010

I guess you could say there is a few different titles for my religion. . .Pagan, Wiccan! I was baptised Catholic and was raised in a Presbytarian church but its not the path I chose. As far as my daughter is concerned I had her baptised Presbytarian to please my family but I wont force her into the religion or mine. I will let her grow up and decide on her own what she wants to believe. I'm very happy with the religion I have chosen and if my daughter wishes to learn it I will be more than happy to teach her. I don't think anyone should force their child to belive in something they don't want to belive in. I give props to parents that let their kids choose for themselves. It was nice to see how many other mother's on here are of the Wiccan faith.

Johnny - posted on 03/17/2010

Kelly, I'd have to disagree with you. I have found that myself and most atheists and agnostics I know just do not feel that they can believe in god when there is no proof of existence. It just seems like a silly thing to do. I just don't get the feeling that many people choose not to believe in god because it's "easier". It actually isn't. It forces you to understand and define your own beliefs about existence, morality, the afterlife, etc. instead of just following what a book or a leader tells you.

It is possible to believe in god and not view something like sex before marriage as being a sin. Faith and religion are not the same thing. And I know that it is possible not to believe in god and think sex before marriage is morally wrong. My father is a staunch atheist and a complete opponent of pre-marital sex. Faith and morality are also not the same thing.

@ Gillian. My husband is somewhat of an agnostic, although he leans much more towards the belief that there is a "higher power" or "originating force" in the universe than I do. He does not believe it is something that requires worship or a certain "moral code"and he does not believe in prayer. He was raised as a Doukhobor (too complicated to explain but it's on Wikipedia) and they are a "Christian" sect who does not view Jesus as the literal son of God but as his prophet on earth. They do not worship in the same way as many other Christians but believe that the route to salvation is through "peaceful life and toil". They are pacifists, vegetarians, and ironically not big believers in "scientific thought".

Kelly - posted on 03/17/2010

@ Jenny, I am sure that you are right that there are a lot more people of faith that have become atheists than the other way around. It really does make sense.
There is no proof that a god exists or that one doesn't exist, but it is much easier to live life not fearing a god or feeling guilty for sinful acts, which I would think would be why most people choose it over religion.
Taking the example of premarital sex (chosen because it does not harm another person, is legal, and is considered a sin in most main stream religions). If one believes in a god and has premarital sex, that person would feel guilty because it is considered "sinful" but if one does not believe in a god and has premarital sex, they would not feel guilt or any other unpleasant feeling, so it is easier or more pleasant to believe there is not a god.

Jessie - posted on 03/17/2010

I am going to raise my child Catholic and yes I expect her to come to church with me and understand the religion I am. However, if she wants to visit other churches with friends and see what they are all about I have no problem with that. My parents raised me as Catholic and I feel that it was an advantage to have God in my life. My mom always told me that I wouldn't really understand God or what they were talking about during mass until I had lived a little and she was right. With some life experiences behind you stuff in church started making more sense to me. I want my daughter to have something like that but am willing to let her find her way.

Jenny, I don't know if there are Aliens or not but if there are I would guess that they would of been made by God so he would be intervening in their lives as well.

Teresa - posted on 03/17/2010

Gillian, oh. All I remember about him is he gave a talk over here several years ago. I thought that was the guy that had been an atheist. All I remember of his talk is that I tried to pay attention for about 30 seconds and then I started doodling. Science and me don't get along. ;)



Jenny, no I don't believe in aliens.

Jenny - posted on 03/17/2010

I'd venture to say there are far more people of faith who have become athiests than vice versa.

For those who believe in a god who's planned out your life, listens to your prayers, guides your life etc. as opposed to a god who just "set the wheels in motion" do you beleive in aliens? If you do, do you think god is guiding the lives of every sentient being in the entire universe or just Earth?

Lady - posted on 03/17/2010

I just googled him and it sounds like he was always christian - there was an atheist who set out to disprove god and ended up a christian - my husband has read his book and thinks it sounded very contrived, it wasn't by Ross though that was someone different. By the sounds of it everyone doesn't like Ross's theories neither the atheist or the creationalists.

Teresa - posted on 03/17/2010

Anyone w/ a scientific brain ever hear of Hugh Ross? Atheist that set out to disprove God (or maybe it was creation?) and became a Christian......

Joanne - posted on 03/17/2010

Because of personal experience I do believe in a higher power but certainly not the boxed version. I will teach my daughter to explore and learn about all the different views regarding God and leave her belief system up to her.

Sunny - posted on 03/17/2010

God in any form was never mentioned to me growing up. My mother and father are both from atheist families but have no problem with religion, they just never had religion in their lives. I went through public school so it wasn't put to me then either. After a very bad few years in high school i went looking for something more and after everything i studied i found i was drawn to Buddhism, but i couldnt keep to it. My son too doesnt know about religion yet, i simply feel if he wants to devote his life to a higher power he should study religion and find what fits his feelings and morals without any impact from me.

Lady - posted on 03/17/2010

Carol that is the same way I used to feel - I thought god had been about once maybe a very long time ago to start things off then had just left us to get on with things, but the more I researched and read and thought about it the more convinced I became that god had never exsisted at all, now I'm at a point I'm so comfotable and confident with I feel like I've got it right for ME, I respect other's beliefs though and and am bringing up my children to do the same.
Just out of interest is your husband an atheist - everyone seems to think all scientists will be but know that is not always case, although it very much is with us.

Johnny - posted on 03/16/2010

@ Gillian. I can understand why it would seem like there could not possibly be a god with all of the horrible things that happen on a daily basis. But when I think about the potential of the existence of a god or gods, I don't necessarily think that it/they would be benevolent, or even involved or interested in our human or earthly affairs. Just because there may be a "higher power" does not mean that it is actively calling the shots or that it cares to do so. So for me, wonderful occurrences aren't miracles bestowed by god nor are tragic happenings curses from an angry or vengeful god. I do not believe that any potential god would exist in the way or behave in the way that the major religions suggest. I see them as simply fairy tales, parables designed to give simpler explanations for things really too complex to actually understand. And just to add, I tend to lean more towards the belief that there is no higher power.

And no, training in childcare, or in my case social work, in no way prepares you to discuss anything like astrophysics, lol :)

Good Day! - posted on 03/16/2010

Lyndsay, I hope you don't mind me asking. I'm just curious how your relationship with your Christian husband works. Does he go to church and does he take your son? Does he care if you go to church or not? I don't want to offend, just genuinely interested.

Amy - posted on 03/16/2010

I have religion and my children until they are 18 and living under my roof are required to go. After that if they choose to go somewhere else I will be disappointed but will still love them the same. Its the way I was raised and I dont think any less of my parents.

Lyndsay - posted on 03/16/2010

I was raised in a Protestant household and went to Catholic schools, although I myself am not the least bit Christian. I consider myself to be spiritual, not religious... the closest religion to my personal beliefs would be paganism, I guess, mother nature and all that. My hubby is a Christian and he is really strong in his faith, so I expect my son will probably follow that. I do plan to send him to Catholic school because I've found that they are a bit more disciplined and their school board recieves better funding.

Ashley - posted on 03/16/2010

I know that I believe in God. I Think of God as someone/something who watches over everyone and everything and throughout the world and religions he/she has different names and ways to worship and love him/her. I will raise my children to believe he is there when you need him but that it is in your heart not a book, or religion.

Teresa - posted on 03/16/2010

No Alison, having God in your life certainly isn't an 'advantage' as far as being accepted in THIS world goes. Good thing that acceptance in this world isn't what we're here for. ;)

Lady - posted on 03/16/2010

Yep Carol I'm the same, at least half of what my husband tells me goes way over my head. My qualification in child care didn't exactly invole much physics lol!!!

But it's not the science which disproves the existence of god to me - it's the terrible things that happen in the world everyday - to me if this is the world with a god who is supposed to care for us and look after us then what would the world be like without a god - I really can't see it being any different.

Alison - posted on 03/16/2010

I was raised in a spiritually abusive church when I was a child. This made me run from everything to do with God for a long time. As an adult I started thinking about lifes big questions and I started getting more interested in religion. I became a born again Christian when I was 26.

No, I don't think it's an advantage to have God if you want to get on in this world. Many people look down on Christians and view them as idiots. I'm originally from the UK and a conservative approach to the bible is very unpopular over there. So having God doesn't help you win any popularity contests.

I want my son to know about my faith because I see it as something that was gifted to me. Why would any parent want to withold a gift from their child? I hope to see my precious child in the next life, but it will be his choice. I'm just doing the work now so that he knows the truth about the Christians relationship with God and others instead of believing what he hears from the media.

Jennifer - posted on 03/16/2010

I was brought up as a Roman Catholic. We attended church every Sunday and I went to Catholic schools. I appreciate that I was brought up this way as it really instilled the morals I have in me today but my husband and I have chosen not to Baptise our son. My husband has no religion - was not Baptised and has never been to church. We plan to teach our son the base morals of Christianity but will allow him to find his own religion if he chooses to. I think having "God" in your life is neither an advantage or diadvantage - children only know what they've been brought up to believe, to them it's what's normal for them.

Jennifer - posted on 03/16/2010

I am Wiccan and my husband is a Medicine Man, my oldest daughter is leaning to the Native American Spiritualty and wants to be a Medicine Woman. My husband is teaching her. We dont feel there is any one right religion only the right one for you. That higher power will show itself to you in they way you need it. If the girls chose to explor and/or follow something els we will support them. Rather you believe or not and how you believe is a personel thing, we each much walk our own path and may that path be blessed! While we are open to them exploring anything we are teaching them to respect nature and to think about thier actions, everything they do effects others and they must be willing to except the reactions. (good or bad) Personal responability is much more important to us then a higher power.

Johnny - posted on 03/16/2010

Ah Gillian, my husband has a degree in astrophysics as well. And he works at a particle collider. We discuss this sort of thing all the time, although much of his theoretical knowledge just goes over my head. I agree, it is much easier to believe in the "scientific" version of creation. I personally just find that despite my belief in those theories, I still have not had the existence of god completely dis-proven to me. I am very clear that I do not believe in the god that is laid out by most religions, the idea of god in the Christian bible especially. But the concept of a higher power or a "god particle" still holds merit in my view. The possibility of a higher power still exists within ever scientific idea, that there is a "greater force" involved in these events.

I love your "I come from a star" idea. My husband and I find that to be the most wonderful idea. For me, I love that everything comes from the same place and developed into this most amazing universe. I think that is one reason I find many religions unappealing, they shrink down the wonder of the universe, the myriad of beautiful things in existence, the complexity of the world which has come from just one to be many. If there is a god, I find the idea that "he" created the world in 6 days to almost be insulting. The universe is continuing work of such magnificence and greatness that it can not be ever fully understood. The world is still being "created" and that will continue in infinity unless it is actually true that the universe is shrinking.

Lady - posted on 03/16/2010

The big bang may have just happened the once (although there is a theory that it has happened more) but it is not unusual for particles to appear from no where then disappear again - this is how black holes are detected because the negative doesn't cancel the positive - I don't know all the ins and outs of it all but my husband has a degree in astrophysics and has explained some of it to me. And to me its much easier to believe than some magical being that started it all off. I think it's true that IF there was a god that created it all then there had to be something that created him then something that created that then on and on until where does it stop - I think there is evidence to show that it's posable for the universe to have appeared from nothing where as there is no evidence of god as far as I can see. To me god was a creation of man to try and explain things but now we have science - and although it by no means explains everything they are making new discoveries all the time.



I realise my 'I come from a star' comment sounds rather mystical but it's not meant to be - just to clarify I mean the particles and elements which we are all made from were probably once part of a star which went super nova casting out all it's particles into the universe which eventually became me - so I am literally made from a star!

Jane - posted on 03/15/2010

OK, I'm going to answer this without reading any other posts. I was raised Catholic...went to Catholic school, forced to go to church, confession, blah, blah, blah. I baptized both my children because coming from an Italian Catholic family, I figured it saved me a LOT of headache with my family. However, that's where it stopped. I do not believe in organized religion and refused to put my children through what I went through with regards to the Catholic Church. So, I bought them kid bibles when they were young, they read them, they understood the concept of God but I raised them to choose their own path. I'm never sure why parents feel a need to make their kids believe what they believe. My kids are 20 and 16 now and they have their own belief system and it's different than mine. Do they go to church? No. But, they are so incredibly open minded about all religions and are very spiritual beings and I'm so glad I let them determine their own spiritual path!

Jenny - posted on 03/15/2010

Well the Big Bang Theory can be accepted as more of a stretch because it only had to happen once. The odds against it occuring can be astronimically high and there can still be that "once". I cannot wrap my head around the theory but people far smarter than me can, just because I don't understand it doesn't make it any less true. Everything that happened after that is explained by evolution. I just find that alot easier to accept as a possiblty than an eternal supernatural being, let alone one who would actually care what us selfish, hairless apes are up to down here.





My father is from a Mennonite background so we had some heavy religion when the family came to town. My parents were believers but not worshippers. I started attending church, on my own, as a tween. Just before I was about to be baptised I started asking questions. Who did Cain marry? What about the dinosaurs? Why is immaculate conception possible? How was it possible to get all the animals on the ark? I did not get good answers and began exploring. That led through Buddishm and eventually to Wicca, where I found the connection with nature I was seeking. After awhile I just realized that what rang true to me was not believing at all. It just didn't occur to me before that it was an option.



Now I'm at the point of taking a good, hard look at religion and what it is creating and has always created in society and I find it to be very ugly. So many have died, so many have been divided, so many just feel totally emotionally fucked up from it. I believe it has outgrown its usefulness and is a waning trend with the primary use now being to control the masses. Keep in mind, I'm talking about religion here and not personal spirituality as they are different animals.



So pending tangible evidence I am, for the forseeable future, an athiest.

Sarah - posted on 03/15/2010

So I have a random question that sort of goes along with this thread! To start I'll say my own view point - I was raised in an Episcopal Church but the reason I want to raise my children in a church (not necessarily Episcopal although I love it) is because of the family I found there. I don't think I was necessarily raised being made to believe in God, and I've been left open to come up with my own ideas no matter what the rest of my family feels. Honestly I go back and forth on my beliefs. I do want my children open to it, but more importantly, I want to surround them with a family that I know has the same MORALS as I do. And you can find that in most churches, I don't think it's so much the particular denomination as it is the community within the church that's important.

Now on a slightly different note the other day I heard a woman telling children that when they hear people talking about the 'big bang theory' they should ask them well where did those planets come from? And where did that dust come from etc. because the 'big bang theory' is untrue. It's untrue because someone had to make it, and that was God! Now, I'm not saying I believe in the big bang theory but when I heard this all I could think was...and where did God come from? Have any of you heard this argument before? Do you think it makes no sense or is it just me? Am I even making sense in explaining this? lol

Gina - posted on 03/15/2010

Wow Gillian I've never heard that before 'I come from a star' I love it! thanks for clearing that up Gillian. I'm sorry your son was bullied, It's getting even harder to be a kid isn't it?

Jocelyn - posted on 03/15/2010

Lol @ Krista ^_^
And thanks for the reminder; I was actually thinking about starting a thread on "the after life" the other day (but I forgot, I'll go do that now... lol)
And Kylie if you have any questions about Paganism, ask away!

Kylie - posted on 03/15/2010

I have a very loose faith, which became stronger when my son was born at 27 weeks and weighed 1lb 7oz. The God I believe in I suppose is a Christian one, because that's the only one I know. I don't believe in exclusivity of religion, I'm very much a relativist.

I think if I explored it my belief would be close to Krista;s a belief in a positive life energy, I just happen to call it God.

I want Joseph to explore his own path in everything, and not take things at face value, to explore belief and faith, everything.

The God I believe in has helped me in tough times, and I'm glad I have that faith, but I never woul want to impose my faith or belief on anyone.

I'm loving the discussion of paganism and Wicca, its fascinating.

Krista - posted on 03/15/2010

I've dabbled in paganism and wicca, and a lot of it makes sense to me. I'd define myself as agnostic, but think that there are energies out there. And if you believe the first law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed -- only changed. So when we die, I think that our consciousness winks out, our body rots, but our energy goes back out into the world. I'm also a big believer in the Wiccan creed of "harming none, do what thou will." In other words, if you're not hurting anybody (including yourself), then live your life however you see fit, and let me do the same.

I didn't ask the trees' permission when we cleared the land for our house, though. Considering how many we had to take down, it would have taken quite awhile.

Jessica - posted on 03/15/2010

oh! Plus, my mom is an amazing and spiritual...well..witch for lack of a better term! She has had alot of cool things to teach me. :) She was brought up a seventh-day adventisit as well..didn't so much work for her. My dad on the other hand, not sure what he believes, he will tease up sometimes but I alos know that for as much as he likes to think he doesn't believe, he's had some cool unexplainable experiances happen to him where he can't quite close the door on the spiritual world..he just won't admit to it, lol.

Jessica - posted on 03/15/2010

Its actually really nice to see a religious thread that hasn't gotten nasty yet! And I'm actually along the same roads as Joce and Carolee. I'm not really big into titles, but if I had to be titled the closest you could call me is Pagan or agnostic. I do believe that there is something greater out there then us, I believe in spirits and energy and nature and most importantly love. I used to go to church when I was a kid, with friends, mostly because the youth time was about runnng and playing with the giant parachute thing, lol and then when i hit my teens I become very interested in Pagan studies, felt I found my niche...and then I started dating a Mormon.....and let me tell you, I have never felt more judged and condemed but a group of people in my life..I won't go into details but after a year of dating the Mormon, I ended that and went back to my pagan studies and I'm quite comfy and happy where I am now. My husband is agnostic and our baby will be aloud to choose whatever suits her, although I do have to say that I tend to fall along the same lines as Gillian...I think I would be on some level dissappointed if she choose to believe in any line of the christian faith but I would support her none the less and keep it to myself. I am very open minded and have friends from almost every religion, love talking and debating the different faiths, but I am definatly content in my spirituality. Ps- sorry for the run-on, I just woke up, not quite awake yet..:)

Chatty - posted on 03/15/2010

I'm sooo fascinated....time to do some research! Thanks ladies!

Carolee - posted on 03/15/2010

Jocelyn pretty much nailed what I believe. The only difference in what I believe is that I personally believe that there is one "overseer" basically who helps maintain the harmony of existance instead of a definate God and Goddess. I also am more inclined to the Shamanistic side (nature). My original teacher was a Druid (more spiritual), though.

Chatty - posted on 03/15/2010

Very interesting Jocelyn.......

Jocelyn - posted on 03/15/2010

@ Gillian: There are many different types of paths Pagans can follow. I personally believe that there is a God and a Goddess. Under the God and Goddess there are many "sub-gods" if you will. I also have a great respect for animals and nature, as I believe that every thing in nature has it's own spirit. For instance, before I cut a branch off of a tree, I ask it's spirit energy for it's blessing/permission. Feel free to ask as many questions as you like ^_^

Jocelyn - posted on 03/15/2010

I expect my children to find their own path. I will answer what ever questions they have and I will tell them what I believe in and why, but ultimately it is up to them if they believe in a higher power (or if they don't) I don't believe there is an benefit or disadvantage to believing in a higher power.
I personally was Christan, until I was about 10 then said "to hell with this". Then I became Pagan ( @ Carolee "go us!" :P) then I fell away from Paganism for a little while and got into Zen Buddhism. I also studies Native American shamanism for a time. So right at this moment I would consider myself a Pagan Buddhist who believes that Jesus was real lol. 10 years down the line, who knows? I don't necessarily believe that a spiritual belief has to last your whole life; people change and evolve personally over the years, so why would their spirituality stay the same?