Santa Claus??

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@Kati -- I know you are not addressing this to me because I believe I've said about TEN TIMES that I do not and will not advocate my children telling other kids there is no Santa, so spare me the personal attacks. No THUMPS. Be realistic -- kids who find out there is no Santa usually find out from other (normally older kids) and not on their parents terms.

Rosie - posted on 12/21/2010

i want to clear up my view a little after reading other posts. while i don't do santa in my house i don't advocate my children telling other people that santa doesn't exist (although it's already happened, sigh). i find that attitude a little scroogey. do you also think it's ok to tell children that god isn't real? i dont' understand the complete lack of compassion for other peoples children. while i don't believe that it's going to hurt a child to find out that santa isn't real, i think it should be on the parents terms, and not done from some spiteful womans kid who doesn't give a shit about how other people raise their kids.

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@Shannen -- pretty much everything you say 100% espouses the attitude you claim you hate (i.e., thinking your kids are more important than everyone else's), so I'm done discussing this with you. The person who is setting their child up for disappointment is you. Don't come to a debate board if you can't handle someone disagreeing with your opinion.

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@ Nikki - I think you can be honest and still be tactful. It's not a one-or-the-other choice in my mind.

Nikkole - posted on 12/21/2010

no im just saying it in general ive seen a few people write that it dosent hurt your kid to know hes not real not just on this thread what you said just reminded me of that and i was gonna say that earlier but didn't have time :)

Rosie - posted on 12/21/2010

are you talking to me nikkole?

Nikkole - posted on 12/21/2010

No its not going to hurt your child but if a parent wants there child to believe in Santa then i think the non believers should be respectful to the ones who believe and vice versa im going to just tell my kid some kids dont believe in Santa thats just the way it goes so dont argue that Santa is real there is no point to try and convince them!

Rosie - posted on 12/21/2010

i think it's ridiculous to think it's going to somehow damage your children. it's been done for ages, i don't see to many serial killers out there with the excuse that mom and dad lied about santa as the reason they turned out the way they did.

i've done santa up until last year. it was quite frankly to time consuming and exhausting trying to keep up the lie, lol! making sure everything was hidden and what not, lol!

i think it's completely possible to have the holiday without santa, i just don't think learning that santa is not real is going to hurt a child.

Nikki - posted on 12/21/2010

I do have another question, for Rebecca and others. You state you feel lying to your children is giving them the wrong message, will you teach your children to be 100% completely honest at all times or will you teach them at times in life it is appropriate to tell a white lie in order to spare someone's feelings?

Nikki - posted on 12/21/2010

That's fine Rebecca you are entitled to your beliefs, but personally I feel it is a very un empathetic way to view things. I just feel a little compassion and tact for other's beliefs should be called for, but that's just me.

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@Shannen – what is the harm is telling your kid to keep his or her mouth shut about Santa, exactly? You still haven’t addressed the question. Personally, I think teaching my kids to be liars is more harmful than any possible damage to your kid from hearing there is no Santa clause. Frankly, my priority is my children.
I’m sorry that you can’t see the gross hypocrisy of your argument. As noted by Sara, your kid’s belief is not my responsibility, which also means it’s not my job as a parent to teach my children to cater to your children's beliefs. Why do you care if my kids don’t believe in Santa Claus? Why do you care if they tell your kids they don’t believe in Santa? Why can’t you prepare your kids for someone telling them there isn’t a Santa rather than expecting other kid’s parents to prep their kids to lie or to say nothing if the question comes up?
I don't think that there is anything wrong with my kids saying, "I don't believe in Santa Claus" or "Santa isn't real" if that is what they want to say. I’m not going to lose any sleep over you disagreeing. If you are so worried about your kids being exposed to views you don’t agree with or that don’t support your own family’s views, then I suggest you find a deserted cabin somewhere and lock them away from the rest of the world. Because that’s the only way your children will ever be able to go through life without anyone ever questioning their beliefs, even about something as trivial as Santa.
@Nikki – “respecting other’s beliefs” isn’t the same as pandering to them. It seems like what you are characterizing as respecting other’s belief’s is code for me censoring my kids’ beliefs by telling them they can’t express their disbelief in Santa.

Shannen - posted on 12/21/2010

@ Rebecca i said 'KIDS ARE CRUEL' NOT that your children are cruel. Really, what would the problem be with having your children turn around when another child says santa is coming, what would the harm of your child just keeping his mouth shut?? It would od less harm than possibly ruining christmas for the child who still believes.

I was brought up to be a very honest person and you know what? If you do the same thing with your child, even when it comes to things that are NOT that important like christmas, then you will be setting them upf or a LOT of dissapointment in life. People don't like the truth and unless you start teaching your children to learn when to keep their mouths shut now then they will just be seen as a cruel person. You have one very very hard job in front of you if your going to teacht them to be as honest and blunt as you are.

Nikki - posted on 12/21/2010

@ Sara, I don't have a problem with other children not believing, I was just a little taken back by Rebecca's post, it was like she was saying her kids don't have to respects other's beliefs and they are free to tell whoever they like. I just think that either way, if you believe or if you don't it's important to teach our children to be respectful of other's beliefs.

Good Day! - posted on 12/21/2010

Hmmm....I taught grade 4 where more than half my class was past the age of believing. There were still some that held to that belief. Other kids saying he wasn't real didn't seem to phase the believers. If someone doesn't want their kid to believe in Santa...so what? Your kid's belief is not another parent's responsibility.

Funny story...In my class we were reading a book that took place during the Great Depression. We were discussing how the girl didn't get many presents, because her parents couldn't afford them. One little girl raised her hand and said, "Well, what about Santa Claus?" Hmmm...I did some quick thinking here...Because of the depression, Santa can't afford to pay as many elves as he normally could. There are fewer elves to make toys, therefor there aren't as many toys to give out. So each kid gets fewer presents. It's not my responsibility to tell children Santa isn't real. And even the kids that didn't believe got a great economics lesson!

Nikkole - posted on 12/21/2010

I think kids who dont believe in Santa should just say thats nice if another child says santas coming to town or any other thing about Santa, thats not lying its just not saying anything about it, i know im going to teach my children that everyone celebrates different things and just because its different dosent mean its wrong and if they believe in Santa just smile and go about your day dont say santas not real or the easter bunny or tooth fairy i dont want my kids to ruin anyone else's fun but thats just me!

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@ Shannen -- thank you for telling me what I should teach my children. And thank you for suggesting that my 2 year olds are cruel considering you have never meet them. I highly doubt my 2 year olds even have the capacity to "tear some other child down." Teaching children to give their honest opinions is not encouraging them to be cruel. It's encouraging them to be honest. I am not promoting encouraging kids to blow other kids out of the water in terms of their beliefs. However, telling them to say “yes he is” when they don’t believe that is telling them to lie, which I won’t do because it’s contrary to my parenting beliefs.
It seems like there is a lot of hypocrisy on this topic. Again, since no one seems to be answering this question, I’ll ask it again -- why is it appropriate for you to be telling me to teach my kids to "keep their months shut" (who is being harsh here?) while simultaneously saying it's OK for your kids to run around advocating that Santa Claus exists? Since you are so concerned about what kids say to each other and respecting others beliefs, shouldn't you be teaching your kids to "keep their months shut" about Santa because not all kids believe? Under that circumstance the conversation would probably never come up. In reality, it’s the pro-Santa kids who are the ones who are most likely to instigate the conversation, not kids who don’t believe. Instead of focusing on how I “should” parent my kids to conform and support your belief system, how about focusing on parenting your own child and preparing yourself for the eventual day where some other kid tells them there is no Santa Claus?

Shannen - posted on 12/21/2010

"However, if your kid says, "Santa Claus is coming to town!" and my kid says back, "there is no such thing as Santa Claus" because I haven't promoted the whole Santa mythology, and you called me to complain, my response would be "They had to learn the truth at some point - get over it.""
Thats kind of Harsh. Kids are cruel and as soon as they can tear some other child down most of the time they will do it. If they think they know better because they know the truth i bet you anything that unless you tell them to keep it quiet because a LOT of children do believe then they will go around sprooking about it.
Majority of people even if they are not religous do the whole santa thing. The kids and families don't are in the minority which is why you should at least teach your children that they should keep their mouths shut.
When my kids say " santa is coming to town" i would hope that if your child were next to mine you would have taught them well enough to just smile nicely and say yes he is.

Rebecca - posted on 12/21/2010

@ Nikki -- I'm not sure what question you are looking for an answer to. I think I've been pretty clear. I'm not going to waste my time instructing my kids to lie to other kids about Santa Claus, or the Easter Bunny, or the Tooth Fairy. That's not the same as me sitting down with my kids and saying, "by the way -- there are these crazy kids out there that have parents that have told them this thing called Santa is real. If anyone tells you Santa is real, make sure you point at that Santa ISN'T real."



However, if your kid says, "Santa Claus is coming to town!" and my kid says back, "there is no such thing as Santa Claus" because I haven't promoted the whole Santa mythology, and you called me to complain, my response would be "They had to learn the truth at some point - get over it."



How would you like my kids to respond? Am I supposed to preemptively go through every belief system on the planet and coach my kids re: what lie they have to tell under what circumstances? I have more important things to teach my sons -- like how to read, count, etc.



As I stated, I'm not lying to my kids about Santa Claus and I'm certainly not going to tell them to lie about him either. But I also wouldn't encourage them to go out and bust other kid's bubbles, either.



You can't expect other families to teach their children never to question your family's belief system just because that is what you believe. Am I complaining that your kids are going to try to promote Santa to my kids? No. Am I insisting that you respect "our beliefs" by not having your kids try to push the whole Santa nonsense down my kids throats? No. Unless you are willing to teach your kids that they can't mention Santa to other kids because not everyone believes in Santa, I don't see how you can criticise anyone for taking the opposite approach.

Julie - posted on 12/20/2010

lol...That doesn't make you a scrooge. Different things work for different families...that is something I enjoy...you probably have other things that bring joy to your children though

Stifler's - posted on 12/20/2010

Um yes. I didn't believe in the tooth fairy or Easter Bunny. My grandma used to joke that she ran the Easter bunny over. I'm not an arsehole that will tell your kids there's no Santa, but it works both ways. Don't tell my kids what they believe is wrong like apparently there's no God but it's not okay to tell someone Santa isn't real. Pffft. I'm just a complete scrooge too and don't see the point or magic of it.

Julie - posted on 12/20/2010

I think Santa is a part of childhood. It lights up my world to see how my 14 month old responds to it...its exciting to see for me...

Do you also leave out ideas of the tooth fairy and easter bunny?

Cat - posted on 12/20/2010

We do the Santa thing, b/c I remember it as a highlight of growing up, and I want my kids to have the same kinds of memories... I was not crushed when I found out Santa wasnt real, I actually dont even remember when I did figure it out.. I remember when I figured out the Easter Bunny wasnt real though, go figure... Anyway, knowing he wasnt an actual person who snuck into peoples houses to leave presents didnt take away anything from the holiday, it always has, and still is magical for me... I will keep the fantasy alive for my kids for however long, and long after they've stopped believing, I will do what it takes to give them a magical Christmas season no matter what... I love this time of year!

Nikkole - posted on 12/20/2010

I think if you don't want your kid/kids to believe in Santa then thats cool its YOUR choice, BUT if you choose to tell them santas is not real i would just simply explain to your child that SOME kids believe in Santa so if someone says hes real just go along with it and dont say anything so that child wont be hurt! I see no harm in believing in Santa i believed when i was little till i was 6 or 7 and i wasn't crushed or devastated when i found out he wasn't real i was like oh ok! I think its every parents choice on how to do things with there children and if it inst hurting anyone else who cares just dont spoil the fun for others just make sure your kids are kind about it to others!

Nikki - posted on 12/20/2010

Rebecca, I am still interested to hear your response???

Johnny - posted on 12/17/2010

Are you going to be instructing your kids to inform any other kid who does not share your exact belief system that their beliefs are wrong? I for one will be teaching my child about respect. I suppose since we don't believe in God I could encourage her to run around to every kid that does blabbing the truth, that there is no God. Why should I encourage dishonesty in my child for the purpose of promoting other children’s fantasy worlds? But somehow that seems rather cruel.

Nikki - posted on 12/17/2010

"Unfortunately, my kids are going to be the party poopers for everyone else I guess -- I don't plan on telling them to "pretend" in Santa Claus for the sake of everyone else. Maybe I will change my mind by the time they hit preschool next year -- reserving judgment on that one."

This paragraph gave us the impression Rebecca, how else is this supposed to be interpreted?

Angela - posted on 12/16/2010

honestly I dont remember being psychologically damaged from "the lie" or even devastated when my 3 older siblings cornered me and told me to tell mum and dad that I still believed in santa - so they still got presents (I did still believe!) - but I do remember the excitement, wonder and pure joy at the magic of christmas - we never had expensive presents - one "big" one and lots of little ones - all wrapped seperately, but it was the number of them to be able to reel them off to the rellies lol my daughter has just turned one and I have a newborn and have already started pointing out santa and talking about him - I hope they have such fond memories as I do :D
...... just my opinion .......

Toni - posted on 12/15/2010

The line 'my kids are going to be the party poopers for everyone else I guess' was the one that made it seem as though you would allow them to tell other children.

Rebecca, no one is saying you have to conform to our beliefs - it is perfectly fine that you do not want your children to believe in Santa, what we are saying is that your children who know Santa is not real do not have to pretend but they also do not need to tell other children who do believe - you can allow someone to believe something without having to believe it yourself, and without having to 'lie' or pretend anything - just don't say anything, unless directly asked if you believe in Santa or if he is real (which let's be honest children do not ask each other). Otherwise they can just let people talk about their beliefs while thinking oh yeah that's just mum and dad.

Rebecca - posted on 12/15/2010

@Carol, Nikki and Toni -- at what point did I even suggest that I was going to instruct my kids to run around and tell other kids Santa isn’t real? Or suggest that I was going to tell the kids myself? I didn’t – so spare me the self-righteousness. However, I will not lie to my kids about the existence of Santa Claus for your convenience or for the purpose of perpetuating the fantasies of your children. According to the three of you, I’m supposed to instruct my kids to lie to your kids and tell them to pretend Santa Claus exists because “some” other kids think he exists? What values, exactly, are you promoting there? Dishonesty? Deceitfulness? Neither of these are traits I will promote in my children. And how is us being forced to conform to your beliefs being considerate of OUR beliefs, exactly? If you are concerned about other kids telling your kids the truth about Santa (who does not exist, BTW), then you should prepare them by telling them that not everyone believes in Santa. It’s not realistic to expect other parents to encourage dishonesty in their children for the purpose of promoting your child’s fantasy world.

Jaime - posted on 12/15/2010

I won't be telling any kids that Santa isn't "real". I don't even know what I'm going to tell my won kid yet. I am still very conflicted about it and for right now I'm okay with just going with the flow. But regardless of what I do tell Gray, I will encourage whatever beliefs he has as well as the beliefs that other kids have. I am aiming to not make a huge deal out of Santa in every way...but if my son wants to believe he's real, then I'm okay with that too. We'll see how it pans out in the next couple of years.

Toni - posted on 12/15/2010

Nikki well said, there isn't a problem if you do not want your child to believe in Santa Rebecca, but you should want them to respect others beliefs!

Toni - posted on 12/15/2010

Julianne, Santa is a fairytale, a myth, when I tell my kids about King Arthur (which I will when they are older) I will not be lying to them - that is a myth, like Santa, they are fun little stories that help to promote imagination within children.

I never said that I was going to tell my kids Santa comes down the chimney, yes Santa does and will continue to give my kids a present, but that is from the visit to Santa in his grotto and so he actually gives them a present! I haven't lied to anyone, we visit Santa and my son can decide what he wants to believe - he is only 15 months old now and doesn't understand Santa or Christmas yet, but I will share the magic of Christmas with him and I suspect he will believe in Santa (I have never met a person who doesn't do Santa with their kids so for him all his friends wil believe) and so I will play along and help create his magical Christmas. It does no harm and I am not going to tell him Santa is not real, just as I wouldn't tell him his imaginary friend is not real (the only time I would is if it is negatively impacting his life) I'm not about to shit all over his imagination, just because you have a dodgy view of lying!

Nikki - posted on 12/15/2010

@ Carol, I have only just read the posts and I agree, it's very nasty, I would be pissed if I found out someone deliberately told my child that he was not real. What is wrong with people, why does everyone have to be so closed minded and self righteous that their opinion is the ONLY important one? Have a little courtesy for other's feelings.

@ Rebecca, wow that's kinda heartless, sure you don't have to teach your children to believe in Santa but don't you want to raise children who are respectful and considerate of other's beliefs?

Johnny - posted on 12/14/2010

I'm really glad I don't live near some of you folks. I've know loads of families who don't celebrate Christmas or "do" Santa, but I've never heard of any of them blabbing about it to kids who still believe. That's nasty. That would be like me telling my daughter to tell all the Christian kids that Jesus isn't real, since to us, it would the same deal.

Kathy - posted on 12/14/2010

I think it's fun! We can get so hung up about telling the absolute truth that we forget about imagination, fantasy and creativity! I was brought up on the santa Claus myth, so were my kids. We certainly weren't traumatised when we were told there's no Santa!
Or you can use the St Nick thing if you don't want a purely mythical creature.
Don't be so pedantic and let yourself go! Too much reality is bad for you!

Jill - posted on 12/14/2010

Even if you dont want to do the whole santa thing you can always switch to the magic of christmas. I think everyone would agree that around the holidays somethings different and magical and you know what why not. I'm 21 and I still firmly believe in the magic. (Dont get me wrong I'm not putting traps out for sugar plum fairies or anything) But why not let children be kids for as long as we can let them? Weither its santa or the magic of the holidays or even something else kids are kids, if you dont want to tell them santa is coming tell them where the legend comes from. It can be a whole new tradition!

Julianne - posted on 12/14/2010

toni- how is it not lying to them??? you say oh this man comes down your chimney and brings you presents. Is that the truth? NO! If its not the truth what is it? A fairytale is when they know your making it up.

Heather - posted on 12/13/2010

I love the fact that someone brought this up! I feel Santa is completely over done...I want Christmas and St Nicholas to get back to the true meaning. The whole thing came out of GIVING but kids are all wrapped up in the receiving. My daughter loves Veggie Tales so we got her the St Nicholas one and I really dont want to push Santa. I want to push the giving...

Amy - posted on 12/13/2010

I also think it's wrong to lie to them. I find it hard to tell them Christmas is about Jesus and then turn around and put so much light on Santa Claus. I had a friend in spain and she said the Three Wise Men came and dropped presents off at the door and put candy in their shoes if they left them outside. I like that idea. Keeps with Jesus and lets my kids know there are some unknown do gooders out there. I think that's what people try to get across with Santa. That he was a good person who helped those in need. And Santa means saint. So he was apparently a holy man. Last year we watched a history of santa on PBS and my 4 year old must have remembered it. Someone asked her what santa was going to bring her this year and she said "um, Santa died a LONG time ago." I don't believe bribery EVER works as a discipline tool. Really? Be good or you might not get some unknown gift that you may not even like? How does that work? and if they're bad, no loss. It's not like they had it before anyway. I try to teach my children to behave for the sake of behaving and being polite to others rather than a "gimme reward" reason. I don't have money or time to be rewarding for every little thing.

Brittanie - posted on 12/13/2010

I really had no idea that anyone "hated" Santa Claus or that people chose not to incorporate him into their Christmas traditions, or considered it "lying". Where I grew up everyone believed in Santa Claus...I am honestly shocked by some of the posts on this thread, and I do not mean that in a rude way.. I am being totally genuine.

Minnie - posted on 12/13/2010

It is a good tool to use for behavior

I am 100% against rewards-threats-based manipulation of this sort.

Rebecca - posted on 12/13/2010

So far, my boys haven't learned about Santa from the media at all. Grant saw a large inflatable snowman outside a building the other day and thought it was a fireman! To which I responded, yes, that it is fireman.

Unfortunately, my kids are going to be the party poopers for everyone else I guess -- I don't plan on telling them to "pretend" in Santa Claus for the sake of everyone else. Maybe I will change my mind by the time they hit preschool next year -- reserving judgment on that one.

Toni - posted on 12/13/2010

Wow, I amazed at how many people think allowing children to believe in Santa is lying to them. Telling children fairytales is not lying to them...and let's not forget that Santa (St Nic) was real once upon a time.

Jaime - posted on 12/12/2010

That was my point Sherri. Your kids were taught to believe in Santa by society, media and many other sources. It's not an intrinsic belief. Now the "spirit of Christmas"..and by spirit I mean 'true nature' is about much more than a jolly fat man in a suit delivering presents. Some parents choose to focus more on the altruistic nature of "Santa", rather than the societally-aggrandized image that is currently portrayed. Nothing 'wrong' with either one. It's an individual choice anyway.

Faylynn - posted on 12/12/2010

I think you should encourage Santa with your kids. yes its hard to lie to them . but look at it this way , Kids are growing up wayyy to fast and this is a wonderful part of childhood and gives it a little magic . to the season . It is a good tool to use for behavior . The value of Santa is that its good to believe in something child like . and allows them to be kids... not grow up cynical and cold..Dont let them believe until there 20 but at least let them have a childhood.. I remember how upset i was when my mom told me the truth but more importantly i remember how magical christmas was for me during the believeing years.. how exciteted i got writting my list , waiting to see if he ate my cookies and if rudolph liked my carrotts. of course waiting to see if i was gonna get all those gifts on my list.. and when it did it was GREAT . the last best christmas i had as a kid was the year i was 10 .and that was the last year i believed... The magic died a little for me until i had my son. so no harm no foul Good luck and give it ago and watch your twins eyes light up ..that will give you your answer!

Sherri - posted on 12/12/2010

No they are not (or were not here) they see him on TV, hear about him from their friends, at the mall. I never taught them to believe in Santa Jamie. They chose that to be the truth and I never discouraged it. I just let them believe and go with it as far as they wanted. Someone gave them reindeer food so they thought it was fun so now I do make it for them as they find it fun. They heard they need to write Santa a letter, leave out milk and cookies so I allowed them to do that. I never told them we had to or we should they asked and always wanted to so we did.

Jaime - posted on 12/12/2010

"I just went along with their own beliefs by what they saw and believed all on their own."

I can assure you that kids don't just see and believe all on their own. Kids are taught to believe in Santa...it just depends what 'Santa' means to the parents as to how those beliefs vary.

Nikki - posted on 12/12/2010

Holy crap Sherri, we kind of agree on something! :P

Sherri - posted on 12/12/2010

I never lied to my kids about Santa I never told him he was real or pretend. I just went along with their own beliefs by what they saw and believed all on their own. I personally think SANTA is the absolute best. I love that guy. :)

Teresa - posted on 12/12/2010

Jaime... wait a few years and have Gray decorate for you. ;) We have an artificial tree and for the past 2 years... the girls have done ALL the decorating. They love doing it and I love NOT dealing w/ it. ;)