School lunch controversy

Terri - posted on 03/08/2010

Im on both sides. I understand what the mother was trying achieve but can see the schools point of view too. I think the school should have told her straight away that this goes against their school policy.

But the child was not going to starve over one missed lunch. Probably taking his game away would have worked better. Our school has lunches made up and if a student doesnt have lunch it is provided free of charge. My sons have had this a couple of times, due to accidental dropped sandwiches or in the case of one of my sons, him still being hungry after the one sandwich!!! (He now takes 2 sandwiches to avoid this lol)

Shelby - posted on 03/05/2010

I by no means think that the Free/Reduced meal programs at school are a big waste of money...I don't think that EVER feeding a child is a waste of anything.

Now I still do not think the school had any right to say anything to the boy against what his mother did...If they felt it was their place to provide him something to eat, so be it, but the statement about his mother doing something illegal was uncalled for.

On the flip-side,If Its up to the boy to make sure he has lunch, And the mom is not responsible for following through with her direction..If he is told to get off the game, then follow through and make sure he is off the game, and the SCHOOL is responsible for disciplining him....Well, Exactly what is her roll as a mother? I understand teaching a kid responsibility, but come on... Hes an elementary school student, He was pre-occupied in the morning with a game that his mother obviously wasn't too concerned with making sure he stayed off of.
I teach my children to look both ways before crossing the street, but I'm not going to send them out on their own, and let them get hit by a car, because...Damn it "I told you to look both ways"

Kelly - posted on 03/04/2010

The law that schools must provide meals is tricky--the parent or guardian has to apply for this specific program and be approved and accepted into the program before the school is required to provide the meal. If this child was not a part of that program (usually called something like "Free/ Reduced Lunch or something similar) the school is NOT required by law to provide food. It is designed for low income children to help them reach the same achievements as higher income students (but studies have shown it does not work or improve performance so basically it's just a big waste of $$).

This kid was obviously not a part of that program and the principal misunderstood the law. I would side with the mom in this case because I am a big proponent of "natural consequences." He forgot his lunch, he didn't eat lunch. If I had forgotten my lunch, I would not have had lunch--that's life and kids need to learn that stuff. Mommy will not always be around to bring us the stuff we forget.

Further more, missing one meal, and not being entirely focused on his lesson for less than half of a single class day will not make an impact on his overall performance for the year. Yes, I know there are studies that link nutrition to higher test scores, but if you look closely you will notice that eating Breakfast correlated with higher scores, yet children eating lunch did no better than their counterparts who skipped lunch.

April - posted on 03/04/2010

I feel that the school had a right to make this decision because of the ample research evidence on the correlation between a full tummy and a sharp mind. schools should be allowed to make certain decisions that influence education.

Amy - posted on 03/01/2010

i also thought it was a law that schools must provide food for children. I always had emergency money that i was supposed to keep in my coat or desk in case i forgot my lunch. i was not denied food. and i don't think it's the school's place to follow through with mom's discipline. that should be done at home later. no game all week. or games just gone completely until he remembers his lunch X amount of days. you can't ask the schools to go against laws. and in school's defense, how do they know it's the kid's fault and not parent's. i'm sure some parents say that just because they are immature and misplace blame. not saying it's the case here, but since no two cases are the same, they supply food. for me, the school's in hte right. no doubt the child forgot lunch and needed to learn a lesson, but that's momma's job. not the school's.

Heather - posted on 03/01/2010

Wow, I remember forgetting my lunch on several occasions...and I just ate something when I got home. Its not like a few extra hours will hurt anything unless the child is diabetic or has other medical problems or takes medications that require a meal. I dont think that the teacher should have had to enforce the punishment, however. Maybe she could have called and asked to speak with her child directly and just let the teacher know that she told him that he couldnt eat lunch? I dont know...things have changed since I was in school and my LO is only 10 months so I'm not familiar with how schools operate these days...I just think that it was blown out of proportion.

Isobel - posted on 02/28/2010

waiting three hours is NOT withholding food!

Charlene - posted on 02/28/2010

She wasn't witholding food. Her child chose to ignore her repeated requests for him to put down the game and pack his lunch in his kitbag. She had it ready and he didn't bother or care enough to make sure he had it. Eating his lunch a little later one day is not going to hurt him. When I was that age, if I didn't make my own lunch or I forgot it, I had to wait until after school to eat it or have a snack, unless there were some extra granola bars and juice boxes floating around in the milk room at school.



Maybe she shouldn't have e-mailed the school asking them not to feed him, but they had no right to involve the child and tell him that what his mother did was illegal.

Catherine - posted on 02/28/2010

Withholding food is never an appropriate punishment for growing children. Their brains need to be fed.

Shavaune - posted on 02/26/2010

Honestly I've had problems with my kids and video games. I don't think the mother or the school is wrong. The mom has to do something to get her kid to listen but the school is obligated to follow the rules. They probably made the rule so kids didn't go hungry and can actually learn.
While I think it's important to teach your kids lessons and let them fall on their own you also have to learn how to identify the problem and fix it constructively. My solution was no video games before school EVER and no video games after school until chores and homework is done. If they break the rules then I take all video games away for 1 week no exceptions. You'd be surprised how quick their priorities change.

Jane - posted on 02/26/2010

I think the mom putting the school in that position in the first place was wrong. Our school district does the same thing...provide a basic sandwich for kids that didn't bring lunch that day! While she has every right to teach her son a lesson, it's HER job to teach him...not the schools and asking them put them in a bad position. Someone mentioned maybe taking away his video game. That's what I would have done. I would have said "if you can't get your lunch together in the mornings as asked, then no more video games in the morning, period". I would NOT have asked the school to do my job. Whether or not the school was right or wrong to me is not the issue here.

Susanne - posted on 02/25/2010

I dont think him forgetting to sort his lunch out is that big a deal to make such a fuss over as a parent you have to pick your arguments and ive much more important things to worry about than school lunch.

Rose - posted on 02/25/2010

I don't see depriving a child of a meal as an appropriate punishment, however, Its not like she wasn't going to feed him, she said she would give him something when he got home so what if he eats late. I think it was suitable maybe next time he will think about that. The school and parents are suppose to work as a team. The school looks to us to help discipline the children we should be able to do the same. Double standard i would say.

Amanda - posted on 02/25/2010

It is not against the law where this mother is, it is CLEARLY stated in the article, that there was NO law about the school having to provide food for the child. Nor is it law in my area.



Despite Green’s e-mail to Cancio, there is no law or Martin County School District policy that dictates whether a school should feed a child in this situation. Green later backed off the claim that not feeding Everett would be illegal.

Good Day! - posted on 02/25/2010

Teachers haven no clue what is going on in a home, therefore should have no opinions or choices on how a parent chooses to punish their child.

Amanda - posted on 02/25/2010

Good for this mom!! That is just the punishment I would of used too, dont make your lunch, you dont have lunch. You cant get more basic then that. This school was wrong! My children have forgotten lunchs, that I have brought them to school, but if they dont make a lunch at all, they dont eat. It is a choice they make. My children have been making their own lunchs since grade 3, there is no reason why a child can not be responsible for their lunch by this age, and suffer the consequences for not doing it.



I have an issue with my school about school trips, this year my oldest is offered a trip to a Camp, which she lost due to her behaviour. The school is constantly calling me asking why she is not allowed to go to a free trip (a trip she also went on last year when it wasnt free $80). For some reason the teachers can not understand, that the perfect student at school can be the worse child at home. Teachers haven no clue what is going on in a home, therefore should have no opinions or choices on how a parent chooses to punish their child.

Jackie - posted on 02/25/2010

Laura just perfectly summarized the post I made yesterday that the child is not being denied food...he is being told to wait a little longer. She specifically asked the school to do nothing, not to go out of there way and follow through with her discipline AT ALL. And there is nothing wrong with a child having responsibilities and dealing with the consequences when they don't follow through. As another mom stated, I was making my lunch by 2nd or 3rd grade and was solely responsible for having food. My mother didn't check up on me, my school didn't provide food so if I forgot I went without. And it never did any harm, if anything going without is a great reminder to be sure you have your lunch in the future.

This is what I totally don't agree with in society today is why people feel the need to coddle so much. They need to learn responsibility and they NEED to learn there is consequences for their actions! We aren't doing them any good by teaching them that there will always be someone there to pick up there mess. Especially when its not b/c he woke up late or some accident that happened, he CHOSE to waste his time playing a stupid video game instead (...and i need to stop here or I'll star to go off on a tangent)!

Susanne - posted on 02/25/2010

I have the same problem with my oldest son i make his packed lunch the night before all he has to do in the morning is take it out of the fridge and put it in his bag and then fill his bottle with squash. At least a dozen times a year he'll forget and i end up driving up the school and delivering his lunch to him with an exasperated look on my face. The thought of saying to hell with him and making him go hungry wouldnt even enter my head how is he supposed to concentrate on his schoolwork if his stomachs rumbling anyway.

Isobel - posted on 02/24/2010

my kids' school does not have a cafeteria but they will scrounge around from teachers and friends to come up with a suitable meal (it's embarrassing for the kids...which I like)

a) it never hurt anybody to go for a few hours without food...in fact I believe it is character building (in moderation)

b) this mother didn't ask the school to do anything...in fact, she requested that they do NOTHING...so there is no comparison to the mother asking for her child to stand in a corner all day or get a spanking etc.

c)I personally, would have allowed him to go without a lunch (although some form of nourishment would have been provided) AND denied video games for a week

but that's just me

Isobel - posted on 02/24/2010

I hate to say it Sara, but most kids prefer to buy food at the caf...fries anyone?

Good Day! - posted on 02/24/2010

Private schools operate differently than public schools. Public schools are required to feed the students. Therefore the school was following the law. The school would have been in much bigger trouble if they were denying children food.

And I still stand by the fact that the mom was asking the school to carry through with discipline that she should have taken care of at home.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 02/24/2010

He forgot. He's a kid. It just doesn't seem like something that needs such an extreme punishment. Like others had said the mom shouldn't let him play his video games in the morning then he may not be so distracted. In fact, that seems like a more appropriate punishment: you forgot your lunch, so no more video games in the morning.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

The private school I went to didn't. Still doesn't.



True Sara, I can't even go more than about 3 hours w/out eating, but then.... I'd make sure I brought my lunch if I wasn't going to be home to eat it. ;)

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 02/24/2010

All I know is that I can not go from breakfast until 2:30 without food so why should a child?

Good Day! - posted on 02/24/2010

I have never heard of a school that doesn't provide lunch.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

Fair enough. I think I did say something about that in my first post anyway.



Question though: What about school's that don't provide lunch? Is it illegal for them to let a child go w/out eating? What would they do in the same situation?

Caitlin - posted on 02/24/2010

Asking the school to not feed her child was illegal, period. Because some children don't always have meals waiting for them at home, the school is obligated to feed them. They can't say, "Oh, because the mother asked us not to, we won't feed this particular student." According to the law, they feed every child/make sure every child has a meal, nor none at all.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

Is it illegal to not feed your child? Yes. Is it illegal to make him/her wait til 2:30 for lunch/snack? No.

Caitlin - posted on 02/24/2010

OK, a more general statement: this woman should not have asked the school to help her in punishing her son. It is not the school's responsibility to assist her in parenting her son, but they are legally obligated to make sure every child has a meal. She needs to choose a disciplinary action that can be dealt with and enforced by her at home, and not one that requires the school's intervention.

If they told her son that what she did was morally wrong, then yes, that would be inappropriate, but they told him that it was ILLEGAL, which is completely different.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

Only since this particular instance is about food is my question irrelevant. Since I said to take food out of the equation... it isn't an irrelevant question.

Good Day! - posted on 02/24/2010

I think some people are missing the point. The school should not be responsible for carrying out discipline over something that happened at HOME.

Caitlin - posted on 02/24/2010

Well since I would never let my daughter go to school without either a meal or lunch for one at school, that is an irrelevant question.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

So I take it by that response that your ok if your child's school takes it upon themselves to teach your child that you are wrong?

Caitlin - posted on 02/24/2010

The ideal punishment in my eyes would be having to eat a school provided meal (which in the schools in my area consist of a ham sandwich, plain milk, and tasteless baked chips) and having video games taken away for a period of time. Also, when your child or children start making their own lunch, explain to them what is expected of them and what will happen if they forget to make their lunch or bring it with them. But not having something to eat is NOT something to be taken lightly, the school was absolutely right, and this mother is disgusting.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

She didn't deny her child food. The food was readily available for him. HE made a choice of playing video games over his responsibility to get his lunch together and bring it w/ him. Isn't our job as parents to teach our children how to be responsible for themselves? What lesson has this boy learned from the school over this. That his mother is wrong and he doesn't have to listen to her. Entirely forget that this issue is about food.... is that a lesson you want your child's school to teach them about you as a mother?

Alison - posted on 02/24/2010

All I'd say is that the school shoulda called the mom. And she was right not to pay for the lunch.

Caitlin - posted on 02/24/2010

Denying your child food is wrong, period. As parents, we have a responsibility to provide our children with food, shelter, clothes, and though this is not a legal issue, I believe we have to responsibility of providing a positive home environment. Any breech of these responsibilities is horrible, and any mother who refuses their child any of these needs to be punished herself. I will NEVER deny my daughter food. Toys, yes. T.V., yes. Sweets or special treats, yes. But a meal necessary for nutrition? NO.

Kylie - posted on 02/24/2010

I agree with the mother, to a point. Every Sunday as a family we had a production line, mum split the rolls, my sister buttered them I filled them, dad labelled them and bagged them and they went into the freezer. Every morning we got our own sandwich out, a piece of fruit, and a biscuit and put them in our lunchbox.

If the mother has worked to put a system in place, then what right has the school to undermine her parenting. One missed lunch does not neglect make.

But, perhaps the mother needs to be stricter about the games of a morning, Personally (and my child is still a baby) I am going to have an "electric box" where all of those sorts of toys go in at 9pm at night, and come out after homework has been done.

Good Day! - posted on 02/24/2010

I can see your point about a child *chosing* not to eat the lunch provided. But, as a teacher, I would have gotten in trouble for denying a child lunch. Schools have to feed the kids. This is because many kinds DON'T get a snack and supper when they get home. For many kids, the only meals they will get are the breakfast and lunch provided by the school. No, the school shouldn't have lied to the kid. That was wrong and needs an apology. But the mom needs to understand a school's position in feeding the kids and discipline her child for something that happened at HOME at HOME.

Shelby - posted on 02/24/2010

I know that my 1st grader is a HUGE eater, and would be sick if he had nothing to eat between breakfast and the time he got home from school. Literally sick. I'm lucky in the fact that most of my kids would eat the ass end out of a wooden hobby horse so I don't have to worry about them not liking what is offered and going without, because especially my 1st grader, he'd rather choke it down than go hungry. I really couldn't see him going without at my hands though. Going through with the bare essentials I get, but going with nothing breaks my heart.
I think Cassie brought up a good point, Where does it stop? And I know that where my children go to school at least in the Elementary schools and Middle Schools all children are entitled to at least something to eat.

Teresa - posted on 02/24/2010

I've read that book several times. I'm still on the side of the mother w/ this one. It's totally different for my kids since they qualify for free lunch, but on the days that they don't like the food.... if they don't make and take their own lunch... they're stuck w/ food they don't like. Such is life. I won't make their lunch for them and I won't bring it to them if they forget. Sometimes they dislike the food so much that they DO go hungry til after school.... their choice.

Meghan - posted on 02/24/2010

I suggest that the mom read "A Child Called It" by David Pelzer to understand why people stand by the school for giving him something to eat. And if she were so obsessed with telling him to fix his lunch, wouldn't it be normal for her to glance at him to see if he had it? Pick your battles, mom.



You know what if the school didn't give her son lunch, she would be in court filing a law suit against the School System for not giving him lunch. What a jerk. You just can't win.

Carolee - posted on 02/24/2010

When I was growing up, if I didn't MAKE my own lunch, pack it, and take it to school, I had to go hungry. It was that simple. And, yes, that was from the time I could reach the ingredients to make a PB&J sandwich. I had a collection of dimes for the week to buy milk, and if I forgot that dime, I went without milk.



I agree with the mother! There's absolutely NO reason the school should have taken it that far. The school should have responded immediately that they were uncomfortable with the situation and ask what she proposed to do to fix it... but they NEVER should have approached the child! They owe the mother an apology.

Jackie - posted on 02/24/2010

This child was not going to suffer b/c he didn't have lunch. He can have a snack when he gets home. The child in questions is MORE THAN OLD ENOUGH to be responsible to remember his lunch. He didn't, his problem. I went to private school and we didn't have a cafeteria, you HAD to bring your lunch. If someone forgot their lunch no one was running out to the local cafe to get us something. You went without (or your friends would offer you part of theirs =), but thats besides the point), the school didn't get involved.

I know the total for one cheese sandwich is COMPLETELY immaterial, but out of principle I would have refused to pay it b/c I made it clear those were not my intentions. I read all these posts in other controversial threads about how everything thinks "to each their own", "its not your kid why do you care" "everyone parents differently"....so why now all of a sudden when this woman is choosing her own method of discipline is everyone saying how wrong it is? Sorry, but missing 1 lunch at school is not even remotely close to putting her son in harms way, which seems to be the only time when people think an outsider should get involved.

But I don't think this mom was asking the school to follow through with anything either. If the kid didn't have lunch, and didn't have money, he can't have lunch. The school is the one who chose to make lunch an option. I think its different than "pleas keep my son inside", b/c then the teacher has to do something special. This child could still have been sent down to the lunch room like he always was, and he didn't have moeny to buy anything so he just sits and waits. She was actually expecting the school to NOT get involved, and just stating a fact that she was aware of the situation.

Wanda - posted on 02/24/2010

Like Teresa, I see both sides of the coin. As the mom, I'd be extremely pissed that they lied to my son, that would annoy me more than them feeding him. The school owes her an apology and they need to tell the son that what they said was wrong. The school wanted to feed him, I can understand that, but they shouldn't have sent home an IOU. Feeding him was their choice not the mother's.

Cassie - posted on 02/24/2010

I don't think that what the mother wanted the school to do was appropriate but I also don't believe the school's reaction was appropriate either! The little boy should have never been told by the school that what his mother was doing was illegal. He really didn't need to be brought into the situation by the administrator.

My question for those who think the mother is right (not that I don't completely understand why she wanted to do this) is where does the school stop then? As a teacher, I don't want every parent sending a note to school with my students instructing me on how to follow through on a punishment that is unrelated to their education. It is honestly not the teacher's job to punish the child at school for something that the parent deems punishable. If I grounded my daughter, I can't send a note to school asking that she be removed from all fun activities due to her grounding. By completely agreeing with the mother, we are walking a fine line of what is appropriate behavior of teachers in regards to punishments by parents.

*Fluffy Bunnies - posted on 02/24/2010

If she wanted to punish him for leaving his lunch she should've given him some money and told him sorry, he would have to eat cafeteria food because he forgot his lunch.

Amber - posted on 02/24/2010

I belive that the mom was right, and I would have been extreamly pissed off to know that the school underminded me. Its not like he didnt have a big breakfast, and he only had to wait until he got home. Its like parents sending there kids to bed without dinner except when they miss lunch they will eat alot sooner. I would have gone up to school and givin' them a piece of my mind, because its not like my son not having something to eat was affecting the other childrens learning. I honestly probibly would have pulled my child out of that school, because if they are going to undermind me at with something so small what else are they going to do that i dont condon?

Jodi - posted on 02/24/2010

My son has forgotten his lunch a few times. I make his lunch and sit it on the bench for him to put in his bag. I can relate to the Year 4 thing...... it happened to us. The first couple of times I realised he left it behind, I took it down to school for him before lunch. His school was only 2 minutes down the road.



However, after bailing him out a couple of times, I chose NOT to take him his lunch - time for him to learn a lesson. The school canteen policy is to provide a basic sandwich (no drink, not nothing else, just a basic cheese or Vegemite or honey sandwich or something). I made no call, I was happy to have him have a basic lunch. When he came home he brought a note from the canteen (well, it really was an IOU). I paid it that time, but I told him that in future, a canteen lunch would be paid for out of his pocket money. He only ever did it once again. Once he realised it affected HIM, and how much of his pocket money went towards his lunch that he could have had for free if he took the one I packed him, he was far more diligent......



Oh, and then there is the fact that the one I made him was put back in the fridge and he ends up with the same lunch the next day anyway!!



So in this case, I think the mother was WRONG to refuse the lunch. But MAYBE it was like me, it wasn't the first time? There is that possibility. In fact, having worked in the school canteen.......it is a very BIG possibility. If they forget their lunch, in some canteens, they get to order what they like, or at the very least, they don't have to eat something they DON'T like :) Sneaky, huh? I wouldn't put it past them, That's why I make my kids pay for theirs themselves once they reach that age where thay totally know what they are doing and it is a simple manipulation :)

Shelby - posted on 02/24/2010

Personally when I read this, I don't know I felt sick. I could not imagine my child sitting in the lunch room hungry wanting to eat and not being able to...It disgusted me. I think it goes back to parental responsibility...When I'm here with my 4 getting them ready for school in the morning, and I allow my 6year old to get on the x-box before I make sure that he is for sure ready for school, then you know what, That is my dumbness. I mean we already had a discussion on withholding food as a punishment, yet now for some reason in this discussion it seems to be o.k.
While with that being said, I don't believe that the school should have told the little boy anything. It was not their place to NOT feed any child. A hungry child has poor performance in school.