self esteem

Emma - posted on 04/12/2010

Well i was a brat as a kid and my parents disciplined me all the time and i probably have the best self esteem and self confidence of any one i know, sometimes a little to much lol
Discipline dose not undermine self esteem, i think not giving credit where its due rewinds self esteem your kid dose not have to draw the best picture in the world but if they took time and effort to do it for you you make sure they know its appreciated,

Sue - posted on 03/03/2010

To a certain point I agree with "If parents have manners, then the children tend to have manners; if the parents are rude, then the children tend to be rude." but it does not always work out that way. If you have people other than the parents influencing the child then they will pick up from them as well as the parents.



A friend of mine uses alternate discipline and will not use physical methods yet her daughter has just been suspended for being the ring leader in a bully gang. She is mortified. I believe each child is an individual and needs an individual discipline plan. What works for some will not work for others.



Also want to add that as a child I was never physically disciplined because [and this is from my mother] I never needed it. I just didn't do anything against what they wanted. I ended up with a very bad case of low self esteem and needed constant approval from anyone and everyone. Was a shock when I got out in the big wide world. I believe though that was more to do with my personality than anything and according to one therapist I saw was due to being in a large orphanage for the 1st 3 months of my life where crying got me zero attention.

Geralyn - posted on 03/03/2010

I am not sure that you - and the moms you are referring to who do not believe in discipline as you say - are using the same definition of the term "discipline." I do not know anyone who just lets children do whatever, even the moms who say they do not believe in discipline. In that context, I believe they are referring to punishment, spanking, hitting, and for some time outs. They use other methods of shaping behavior. I have read posts about hitting, spanking, biting (when bitten), etc., so there are a good number of moms who use physical discipline....



I think that this debate cannot go anywhere until you have an operational definition of discipline and use it. Jane's definition of discipline, by her own description - does not use physical punishment like spanking, but there is a lot of teaching, shaping of behavior and communitcation. That is exactly what the moms use who say they are against discipline. I do not believe in physical punishment or using fear to intimidate a child into changing their behavior (and I am not talking about I'll take your toy away if you do not stop throwing it). I am talking about real fear by intimidation whether it is physical or emotional. I was raised with these techniques, and while I love my parents, that was harmful and unnecessary. I will not be using those techniques with my children.



There are effective alternatives to spanking, hitting, and use of other physical methods as well as time outs. BTW, I do not have an opinion about time outs because I have not had to use that. I think that at an appropriate age and for certain behavior, time out can be an effective tool. I also think that the moms who have said it does not work for their children know best, and if they use alternative methods to time out, then they should not be criticized by others who are not part of that particular family dynamic.



My last point is that there is an assumption that the "rude" children were raised by parents who just let them do whatever without any teaching or shaping of behavior and the polite, productive kids were "disciplined" whatever that means. I think that that is a total assumption and that assumption may be faulty. If parents have manners, then the children tend to have manners; if the parents are rude, then the children tend to be rude.

Sue - posted on 02/26/2010

Children need to know where the boundaries are and if they are not told/shown then they are in for a huge surprise when they get out in the big wide world.
Discipline in some form or another I believe has to be given.

Teresa - posted on 02/26/2010

Thanks Jessica. I meant more along the lines of when I was a kid/teen/early adult. Never did chores, never had a job, no interest in driving til 18, lived w/ my dad (doing NOTHING) til I got married, etc....

Even now... while it's true that I have no one to watch my son.... I'm also not getting a job cuz I'm TERRIFIED of dealing w/ people. I literally can't do it and just thinking about trying is enough to keep me up crying all night.... so I don't think about it and just hope and pray that I can manage to figure out something to support us SOON.... got a couple 'ideas' in the works right now, so hoping at least one of them pans out.

Jocelyn - posted on 02/26/2010

If you are disciplining your child by hurting their feelings, or making them feel like crap, then yes, your child will probably grow up to have no self esteem. But if you are doing that, then that's not really discipline, that's hurtful; borderline abuse. Disciplining your child shouldn't involve making them feel worthless. Discipline is teaching them right from wrong, proper behavior (etc). If you don't discipline your child when they yell at another kid (or anything that affects others) that kid is going to go to school and quite possibly get punched out for being rude. That's got to be more damaging to someones self esteem than a time out will ever be. I discipline my son, and let me tell you he is so full of spirit and a great personality that I doubt me telling him not to do something or giving him a time out will have any negative affect on him at all.

Krista - posted on 02/26/2010

Carol nailed it on the head. We all want our kids to have good self-esteem, but that doesn't mean letting them think that they're precious little snowflakes who can flout the rules and always get whatever they want in life. True self-esteem is solid, because it's based on reality. This false self-esteem, or narcissism, is based on ephemera. And it does the child absolutely NO favours to be raised that way, because in most cases, the kid IS going to someday going to have to face disappointment, and will have no idea how to deal with it.

Johnny - posted on 02/26/2010

I personally believe that people who think that you should not discipline children at all and allow them to do whatever they choose confuse good self-esteem with narcissism. I support many of the ideas of positive discipline, I think it has better, longer lasting impacts on a child's behavioral choices, but there are lots of situations where kids need to learn "no" and that there are some firm boundaries in this world. Strong self-esteem comes from feeling good about ones skills, goal achievements, abilities, accomplishments, and inner self. Narcissism is just thinking that you are great and perfect, no matter what you do, and is a sign of not having achieved personal growth. I don't think that good human beings develop from always hearing the positive and always being right. A little adversity builds character and boundaries shape strong personalities. I am not a spanker, I think there are many other ways to instill discipline. Overwhelming negativity towards a child can break their spirit, but so can not allowing them to ever build inner strength through adversity. It is a delicate balance.

Jane - posted on 02/26/2010

Not to laugh, but I did when I read this because my kids (16 and 20) were disciplined with love...there was never spanking but rather conversations on what's right and wrong, how you treat people with respect, manners, etc. My kids have a very healthy high opinion of themselves so I'm not sure the discipline they recieved as children ever hurt their "self esteem" in any way, shape or form. Parents who use the excuse that they won't discipline their kids as to not hurt their self esteem is just a cop out to me. But that's just my opinion.

Jessica - posted on 02/26/2010

I disagree,Teresa, if you have a beautiful family that loves you ( ie- your munchkins!) then you did something very big and wonderful and should be proud. :) Moms have the biggest job in the world, we just don't get paid for it :) I'm not a mom yet, will be in May, but I have my puppy ( shes a handful ) lol and Ive seen my mom be the most amazing women ever, juggling life and I know she gets down on herself sometimes. I tell her the same thing, she should be very proud for raising her family, running a household and having so much love and strength, that is something that should boost your self esteem. :)

Teresa - posted on 02/26/2010

Another thing to think about... (maybe just cuz I'm already screwed up though...) I really wasn't disciplined as a child. I didn't do much wrong, but I didn't do much at all (which was the biggest problem). I pretty much have NO self esteem.....

Jessica - posted on 02/26/2010

I'm really glad there are some other mothers or mom-to-be's that don't think its abuse to disipline your child in an appropriate manner. So many moms on here i've noticed toss around the word abuse for every little thing that may not be pleasent. I was spanked as a child, and had time outs and I grew up just fine and I'm not scared of my parents, i love them dearly. My mom used to get a wooden spoon to her butt ( not that i would do that, lol) but she is just fine and loves her mom to! There are so many kids now that walk all over there parents and the parents sit back and whine all deer in the headlights wondering why....if i had talked to my parents the way i hear some kids/teens talk to there parents now..I woulda had a sore bum! lol

Amy - posted on 02/26/2010

If you don't discipline your child how do you control them? or do you let them walk all over the top of you? How do they learn? and when they grow up and don't get the corner office because they feel like their entitled to it how do they handle the rejection? Just too many factors for me to stop discipline in my house.

Sharon - posted on 02/26/2010

I agree with the other post'ers.

Feeling a bad is a HUGE deterrent.

Um if feeling bad destroys people then firing people from a job would be illegal. What a load of horse shit to shovel. Someone needed a "hook" for a book deal and talk show spots and made this crap up. Good god.

Carolee - posted on 02/25/2010

If my child does something wrong, he KNOWS! I don't think it's right that so many parents insist on letting their children get away with not having basic manners. If my son does not say "thank you", we will stand there for 10 minutes if it takes that long for him to say it before we leave somewhere. I personally think we, as parents AND as a society, are getting too soft.



As a teenager or as an adult, have you ever had your spirits crushed? Did you know how to handle it? I'm pretty confident in saying that everybody has had their spirits crushed, and those who have had discipline with how we behave know better how to handle said situations because it's always been a part of our lives.



My son has great self-esteem! He gets praised every time he does something nice. He gets punished and/or corrected the moment he does something naughty (depending on what the situation calls for). He may be only 2 1/2 years old, but he knows how to be polite and that men always open doors for ladies.

Teresa - posted on 02/25/2010

You know... several years ago I read a book about Positive Discipline and while I really liked a lot of the concepts and suggestions in the book it was all geared towards 'not making your child feel bad.' That I disagreed w/.... if my child does something wrong, I WANT them to feel bad about it. Not bad about themselves certainly, but bad enough to think twice about doing it again.

Having a guilty conscience can be a wonderful gift.

Amy - posted on 02/25/2010

There are better other ways to teach children Self-Esteem. Discipline is very important especially at a young age. What we've started to do (thanks to a book my husband read), is start to give our son choices. As he gets older, choices for punishments, etc. I guess it helps them feel loved and in control but also provides discipline or something like that.