Stupid?

Meghan - posted on 05/24/2010

a

Krista - posted on 05/21/2010

Jenny, you are a walking briefcase full of WIN.



Now, ladies. Let's not fight. Who's up for a nice feast of buzzard?

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Some very good points about evolution AnneMarie. I agree that our view of 'intelligence' is relevant to us being humans, and that it doesn't negate the existence of intelligence among animals of other species. I like to think that I'm very knowledgeable, but I'm also very much aware that my knowledge is limited to my life experiences. I can't possibly possess the same knowledge as someone that lives in Mexico, or China or anywhere that the way of life differs from my country. I can know about the differences, but I can never fully understand them and thus my intellect is of my own personal perceptions. I believe in the intelligence of the animal kingdom and I agree with Celia that humans are often stupid and idiotic. Just look at our habits...we form habits so badly that they become a destructive cycle in our lives. Animals see a road block and they walk the hell around it! LOL For some reason, as much as we are capable of thought, we aren't always capable of being in control when our thoughts overwhelm us. It's interesting for sure.

Community - posted on 05/21/2010

Hello Ladies,

Thank you for contributing to this thread, but we are closing it so that it does not get out of hand. Please remember that Circle of Moms is a safe place where moms feel comfortable sharing personal information about their lives and families. And since you're an important part of our community, we ask that you contribute to this as well. This means refraining from personal attacks--even when provoked and checking your gut before posting to make sure what you're about to share adds real value rather than taking it away.

Thank you for your cooperation.

The Circle of Moms Community Management Team

Anne - posted on 05/21/2010

This has been a great debate but it is starting to get a bit personal. I agree with Christa on that.

Anne - posted on 05/21/2010

Celia I just saw your post and totally agree.

Gina - posted on 05/21/2010

Christa,losing it because Gillian is debating with you has not helped you.I have followed this thread and read how you became pissed off because ppl didnt agree with you.While I dont agree with Gillian or Jenny I really enjoy reading thier posts , and Dana's because I find them interesting.What I haven't enjoyed is how you attack,then turn around saying they did! This a debate ppl will not always agree with you even though you think you're so much smarter,if you cant handle it dont post. ok im done do go on lol this is fun!!!!!!

Anne - posted on 05/21/2010

Just wanted to butt in about evolution. The notion that we are so superior in intelligence and complex thought to our closest animal kingdom relatives comes from religious doctrine. Not from the bible but from the church and establishment side of Christianity. It is completely false. Humans are cruel because they share the 'demonic male' gene with other hominids. Capuchin monkeys show a greater sense of fairness and justice than humans, Elephants, Dolphins etc are well documented for their intelligence and compassion. Crows are incredible tool builders and users and display fantastic logic... so many examples it would take forever to mention. Now consider that they are only the same age as a human infant. And that although animal language is being discovered to be far more complex than we ever imagined, that because of not posess the vocal chords to have a truly versatile language they cannot pass down learned information from generation to generation and accumulate knowledge as a society. Which human toddler who has had no teaching would be able to match that? So it shouldn't be an argument for the existence of God. Otherwise you would have to ask the question 'why did God make such a race of stupid bi-ped creatures with the physical advantages of opposable thumbs, versatile vocal chords, and other factors just so that they could spoil the planet and harm other more intelligent sentient beings?'.

Christa - posted on 05/21/2010

Ok ladies I'm done with this. This has become a blatant personal attack and is no longer productive and I will not be part of it anymore. Have a nice day! :-)

Jocelyn - posted on 05/21/2010

I with Celia and Krista on this :)

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Thanks Jennie...that was a good read and perfectly supports the FACT that the Bible is open to interpretation for anyone that would argue it is the word of God (or inspired by God). If everyone lived by these literal translations then I'm certain it would be near impossible to lead a strictly religious lifestyle--especially in this day and age. Not even priests can adhere to the strict religious code that they signed on for...just look at the sad state of affairs that the Vatican and the ENTIRE Catholic religion is in. It's rather difficult to expect people to live by the words in the Bible if God's own messengers will pick and choose what they follow. Of course that is just one religion, but Islam has its own contradictions and hypocrisies as I'm sure many other religions do. I agree, that personal faith is not the issue, it's organized faith that is the real problem.

Celia - posted on 05/21/2010

Holy crap Jenny!
You know the bible better than I do and I went to Catholic school!! Haha!!

Jenny - posted on 05/21/2010

I totally agree Celia. We do not deserve to inhabit this planet with the destruction we inflict on it. Humans suck.

Celia - posted on 05/21/2010

I'm just going to put up a defence for our poor closest "relatives" and say we are not superior to ANY other animal. One of my biggest beefs with most religions.
We are the ones who cant live in harmony with the rest of the beasts, we rape pillage and distroy the earth and all of its inhabitants and by we I mean every last one of us every time we drive a car or seed a lawn or buy plastic goods.

Please dont ever assume humans to be above the rest of the animals in intelligence.
What is true intelligence anyway since that is what we are trying to have a discussion about.
I'd say all of us humans are at the bottom of the common sence intelligence test. All animals live in balance with their environment, humans live at war with their environment.

We loose... we are all complete ideots, religious or not.

Jenny - posted on 05/21/2010

In my browsings on this site and many others I continually read insinuations that if you are a believer...SPECIFICALLY a Christian...you are less intelligent than those who are non-believers. I am not imagining it, sometimes it is blatantly stated as fact.

I have 3 questions:

1) Do you believe that to be true? No, intelligence is not related to a belief system although strictly statistically speaking atheists tend to have a higher IQ. Source: http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/26/lib...

2) If you do, why? While I don't think they are less intelligent I don't take their answers as seriously on certain subjects as their judgment tends to be deluded by their beliefs. Gay marriage just happens to be a prime example. There are many religious people who are comfortable reconciling supporting LBGT relationships with their beliefs. This leads me to believe that the people who do not would be bigoted against them if religion was never invented. They seem to be cherry picking stuff to back up beliefs they already have. I have included a chart at the bottom of just a few things forbidden in the bible. If you don't follow it all, how on earth would you expect the rest of us to take it seriously?

3) Would you ever say that about someone who is a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc...? Yes, I abhor organized religion equally. Personal faith I support. It is organized religion and pushing the word of man that I believe to be dangerous to our future. It is truly holding us back from progress. If we can't even all agree on something so straightforward as evolution due to an old book, we've got some big issues to deal with.

And the list:

Here are 11 things that are technically banned by the Bible. (All quotes are translations from the New American Standard Bible, but, because I'm actually trying to maintain serious journalistic integrity here, I cross-referenced several other translations to make sure I wasn't missing the point.)

This butt cut is a guaranteed one-way ticket to sin.
Round haircuts. See you in Hell, Beatles... and/or kids with bowl cuts, surfer cuts or (my favorite) butt cuts. Leviticus 19:27 reads "You shall not round off the side-growth of your heads nor harm the edges of your beard."


Football. At least, the pure version of football, where you play with a pigskin. The modern synthetic footballs are ugly and slippery anyways. Leviticus 11:8, which is discussing pigs, reads "You shall not eat of their flesh nor touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you."

And you're doubly breaking that if you wake up, eat some sausage then go throw around the football. Or go to the county fair and enter a greased pig catching contest.


Fortune telling. Before you call a 900 number (do people still call 900 numbers, by the way?), read your horoscope or crack open a fortune cookie, realize you're in huge trouble if you do.

Leviticus 19:31 reads "Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the Lord your God." The penalty for that? Check Leviticus 20:6: "As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people."

Seems like a lifetime of exile is a pretty harsh penalty for talking to Zoltar.


Pulling out. The Bible doesn't get too much into birth control... it's clearly pro-populating but, back when it was written, no one really anticipated the condom or the sponge, so those don't get specific bans.

But... pulling out does. One of the most famous sexual-oriented Bible verses... the one that's used as anti-masturbation rhetoric... is actually anti-pulling out.

It's Genesis 38:9-10: "Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also."

Yep -- pull out and get smote. That's harsh.



Banned.
Tattoos. No tattoos. Leviticus 19:28 reads, "You shall not make any cuts in your body for the dead nor make any tattoo marks on yourselves: I am the Lord."

Not even a little butterfly on your ankle. Or Thug Life across your abdomen. Or even, fittingly enough, a cross.


Polyester, or any other fabric blends. The Bible doesn't want you to wear polyester. Not just because it looks cheap. It's sinfully unnatural.

Leviticus 19:19 reads, "You are to keep My statutes. You shall not breed together two kinds of your cattle; you shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, nor wear a garment upon you of two kinds of material mixed together."

Check the tag on your shirt right now. Didn't realize you were mid-sin at this exact second, did you? (Unless you checked the tag by rolling off your neighbor's wife while you two were having anal sex in the middle of robbing a blind guy. Then your Lycra-spandex blend is really the least of your problems.)


Divorce. The Bible is very clear on this one: No divorcing. You can't do it. Because when you marry someone, according to Mark 10:8, you "are no longer two, but one flesh." And, Mark 10:9 reads, "What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."

Mark gets even more hardcore about it a few verses later, in Mark 10:11-12, "And He said to them, 'Whoever divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery against her; and if she herself divorces her husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery.'"


Letting people without testicles into church. Whether you've been castrated or lost one or two balls to cancer isn't important. The Bible doesn't get that specific. It just says you can't pray.

Deuteronomy 23:1 reads (this is the God's Word translation, which spells it out better), "A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord."

Oh, and the next verse says that if you're a bastard, the child of a bastard... or even have a great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandchild of a bastard, you can't come to church or synagogue either. Deuteronomy 23:2 reads, "No one of illegitimate birth shall enter the assembly of the Lord; none of his descendants, even to the tenth generation, shall enter the assembly of the Lord."


Wearing gold. 1 Timothy 2:9 doesn't like your gold necklace at all. Or your pearl necklace. Or any clothes you're wearing that you didn't get from Forever 21, Old Navy or H&M.

"Likewise, I want women to adorn themselves with proper clothing, modestly and discreetly, not with braided hair and gold or pearls or costly garments."


Lobster, shrimp and clam chowder: All banned.
Shellfish. Leviticus 11:10 reads, "But whatever is in the seas and in the rivers that does not have fins and scales among all the teeming life of the water, and among all the living creatures that are in the water, they are detestable things to you." And shellfish is right in that wheelhouse.

Leviticus 11 bans a TON of animals from being eaten (it's THE basis for Kosher law); beyond shellfish and pig, it also says you can't eat camel, rock badger, rabbit, eagle, vulture, buzzard, falcon, raven, crow, ostrich, owl, seagull, hawk, pelican, stork, heron, bat, winged insects that walk on four legs unless they have joints to jump with like grasshoppers (?), bear, mole, mouse, lizard, gecko, crocodile, chameleon and snail.

Sorry if that totally ruins your plans to go to a rock badger eat-off this weekend.


Your wife defending your life in a fight by grabbing your attacker's genitals. No joke. Deuteronomy actually devotes two verses to this exact scenario: Deuteronomy 25:11-12.

"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity."

That's impossible to misinterpret. Ladies, if your husband is getting mugged, make sure to kick the mugger in the pills. Do not do the grip and squeeze (no matter what "Miss Congeniality" might advise). Or your hand needs to be cut off.

As a final note, I know that nine of these 11 cite the Old Testament, which Christianity doesn't necessarily adhere to as law.

To which I say: If you're going to ignore the section of Leviticus that bans about tattoos, pork, shellfish, round haircuts, polyester and football, how can you possibly turn around and quote Leviticus 18:22 ("You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.") as irrefutable law?

Teresa - posted on 05/21/2010

Christa, you really don't help anything w/ arguments and insults.



And that's all I'm adding to this.. Have a great day ladies! :)

Chatty - posted on 05/21/2010

@Christa...I'm not freaking out on anyone....in any thread! That's YOUR interpretation! I'm just sitting here reading (tyring to learn or understand although I'm not having much luck), laughing a little, and typing! Oh ya, and drinking a diet Pepsi....first thing in the morning; I know! Disgusting, right....I don't like coffee though and I needed some caffeine to stay awake to read this post!

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Christa, I agree with you about both God and science being faith-based. Faith is about a belief in something whether it exists or doesn't and there's nothing wrong with that. There are vast differences between religion and science as has been exemplified many times over...but it doesn't negate the fact that we all believe in something. While I don't personally believe that God is a someone, I do believe that we are all entitled to have faith and I respect every individual for their personal beliefs.

You have no reason to be defensive, because even if Gillian or another poster disagrees or refutes your statements it doesn't take away from the value of your opinion as the opposition. And furthermore if someone believes that some religious people are delusional then it is also their prerogative...all the mud-slinging in the world won't change free will. If I was to argue one thing for the opposing side of this debate, I would have to say that if God does exist, he gave us free will and with that the ability to choose how we want to live and perceive the world. IF he created the world in his image, then God is diverse, open-minded, accepting of change, stubborn, resentful, hateful, cruel, kind, loving, deceiving, determined, sad, happy, elated, admirable, full of doubt...and last--but not least--he has faith too that his ENTIRE creation will eventually turn out the way that he intended...regardless of who believes in him and who does not.

Tanya - posted on 05/21/2010

Things Christa has said that are wrong or can not be proven.

A friend of mine was in a car accident in high school, she survived and no one could figure out how. The physics, and her size, etc nothing added up. By every recreation of the accident showed she should have die
She has no FACTS to back this up. More than likely a cop looked at the tire tracks to find out how fast she was going and said " Wow you are lucky to be alive"
I am sure that the cops didn't run the physics

Jesus will judge us in the end. YOu can prove that until you get there

God has never been proven wrong.

Absolute Zero is the coldest we can get.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...,9171,808033,00.html

or the record I don't think we have an overpopulation problem, a population distribution problem maybe

Things she has said that are rude or "insulting and patronizing"
1 Tanya, you need to read and understand the whole bible

2Your opinions are no better then mine and mine do not deserve to be dismissed because YOU don't agree with my religion.

3 @Gillian, you have your "facts" I have mine. How do you know what’s been proven over the millennia? Did you read about it somewhere? Just wondering if you were some sort of immortal who’s been around to see all of this first hand that allows you to be so superior. I

4 I have a scientific background and am a college graduate and consider myself of above average intelligence I am also a Christian

5 Well I would disagree, you are not held accountable to anything or anyone so you can move your "line" when needed. My "line" is not flexible so I actually have to stick to something instead of going with the feeling of the moment

6 Where did you see these scientific facts? In a book

7 So if down the line people have a good argument backed up with "facts" that support murder, or rape, or theft or any other topic, there is a chance you will change your current opinions on the matters.

8 My point is without an absolute set of rules, you can choose to support or not support whatever you feel like as long as you can justify it in your head. You can call it silly, but there are people out there who believe that it's ok to kill off "weaker" humans, there are people who believe women are property of men, etc. Because they have some logic in their own heads that makes those things true. So unless you have an absolute boundary it's all relative.

9 Is that clear enough?

10 I'm sorry but you've demonstrated that you don't understand the bible. I'm not making contradictions, I'm speaking very briefly about the bible. It is far too complex to get into right now.

I could go on but I think you get the point. Do you read these things you type out loud b/c you might feel differently if you did.

Also its told bs to say we can't hold god to human standards.
For someone who says over and over I don't know the will of god you sure do like to tell everyone else they are wrong.
What a humble servant you are.

ps free will is not free will with only 2 possible out comes

Also i bet you voted for bush twice!

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

Sorry but I couldn't help it I typed "did the great flood really happen" and came up this - there was hundreds of others but I just picked the one at the top here you go;


http://www.churchofreality.org/opinion/n...

Rosie - posted on 05/21/2010

i think there is a possibility that there was a great flood, and other events that happened in the bible actually. i just don't think that there is evidence of god or jesus's existance. who knows the people who wrote the bible could've been schizophrenics and this "god" is something they made up and thought was real. or they could've been some well intentioned , but horribly misled people who were fooled by someone claiming to be "god" or it could be just one big joke, and a way to get us all to behave. i'm sure fear mongering was around back then too , lol!! :)
i'm sure you can say without a doubt that rainbow colored unicorns, the spaghetti monster, zeus, and many other imaginary things are without a doubt imaginary. you know for a fact they aren't real. why? because even though they have been written about, many many times, there is NO PROOF they exist.

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

Sorry Sarah I was writing my reply as you posted but like i said I'm going to shut up now anyway!! :-)

Christa - posted on 05/21/2010

@Dana I didn't respond to you because you have been freaking out on me in several threads and I don't want to get in some fight with you. I have explained things as nicely as I can, I sorry if it hasn't come across that way. The only person I really have a problem with on this thread is Gillian. She been rude from the get go and has made me go on the defensive, which is not the place I like to debate from. I am human and I'm not perfect. I hope you get a chance to know me better, because MOST of the people I've debated with on here can tell you I'm really pretty reasonable. When I get defensive my bitchy side comes out so I'm sorry you have that impression of me.

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

Christa I fail to see how my first post to you was rude it was simply a point of debate - it was you who was rude to me first and I have just been reaction to you - if you think someone disagreeing with you is rude then that's your problem not mine. You still have not told us what your background in science it is as it's a very wide subject for all we know you could be a engineer so that would hardly qualify about matters of the universe any more thn a layman off the street.
There is no eveidence of a flood in fact there is the exact oposite and eveidence that there never was a flood so I'm afraid you've got that one wrong unless you have read a different "book" to me other than the bible - I'll wait with baited breath for your internet link to pop up as I'm sure there is some crack pot theory out there that there was a flood but my sources tell me otherwise but I can't be bothered to look for a link I doubt it would make much difference - I don't know why I'm even bothering I guess there is more of the masacist in me that I know I'm going to shut up now because I'm sick of repeating myself just one last thing - science isn't necessarily being proved wrong all the time it's just finding new stuff and building on the last theroy with the new information - the bible can't do that because it was written hundreds of years ago and everyone who wrote it is dead.

Sarah - posted on 05/21/2010

*puts on mod hat*
Shall we all take a deep breath ladies????
Annnnnnnnnd.........BREATHE!

Come on, let's keep it on topic and civil please. :)

Chatty - posted on 05/21/2010

And I don't even get a response?! You really do feel that you're above me and that's fine....maybe you are, maybe you're not?! It's sorta sad really because I do see your point and I do have " faith "....I do believe in a higher power etc. but I'm obviously confused about religion vs. science....I don't know what to believe, which is why I've chosen to stay out of this conversation for the most part but instead of trying to explain things nicely you've had a condesending tone since the beginning so THANKS for reiterating why I have such a problem with religion, religious people etc.

My apologies to those of you who aren't extreme fanatics!

Christa - posted on 05/21/2010

@Gillian, look in the mirror. You have been rude to me since the first time you spoke on this thread and your last post was the last straw. What I've said makes sense, I'm sorry you can't see it.

@Jamie I'm sorry you all feel that way. I don't think I'm superior but I do get tired of being called delusional etc just because people can't understand what I'm saying. I've had this debate with others in the past and have never had this much trouble getting people to see my point (not agreeing just understanding where I'm coming from). So I apologize if I offended you, you have been nothing but respectful.

To clarify I'm not dismissing all science, but science is constantly proven wrong and I don't understand how people can hold so strongly to its current findings. The theory of Evolution (macro evolution not micro), for example, changes every five minutes. They find something that ruins their last theory so they have to change it. I find it odd that people are so sure that it's correct when it changes all the time. To me I don't see how that's any different in me believing in God. We don't have the answers either way. We don't know exactly how the earth and the humans on it got here and we never will, unless of course someone invents a time machine. There is evidence to individuals that God exists, is it concrete no, but hardly anything, including science, is 100%. I guess having a science background helps me see things others may not. We are so complex, so much more than any other species. We are so superior to our closest “relative”, that simple evolutionary stresses just don’t make sense to me. What would have happened to us that made us so much more intelligent and complex? To me it makes more sense to have an intelligent design then just a matter of “chance”. You have your theory I have mine, neither has anymore proof then the other. Just because one bone appears to have evolved from another and scientists have made their best guesses on how that happened, does not make it a fact. Everyone gets so hung up on that men wrote the bible, scientists are men too. I do not understand why one group of men are crazy and the other are geniuses. Were any of you there when those men wrote the bible? Do any of you know that the things they saw, heard, lived didn’t happen? No because none of us were there. We read cave writings and take their word that they accurately depict that time in history, why is the bible so quickly dismissed? I’ve already said there is scientific evidence that supports claims of the bible, like the flood. There is proven evidence that a flood likely occurred, others say it was the ice age. Either theory is plausible and since we weren’t there and have no pictures we will never know. Anyway I don’t know how else to try and illustrate my point. Belief in either theory takes faith, faith in some mans words or findings, be it the bible or of scientists. I’m not the only scientist who believes in the bible, some of the smartest minds believe in the bible, and there are other smart men who don’t, so obviously there is evidence to support either theory. I’ve been called condescending, but perhaps you are the condescending ones. You don’t understand how someone can have faith in something other then what you believe, so instead of seeing where they are coming from you dismiss them as delusional or crazy. And then I get jumped on when I finally get defensive. I accept your way of thinking, I would hope you could extend me, and other Christians, the same courtesy.

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

I agree Jamie, some people will only ever see what there delusions will let them see.

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Gillian, just let it roll off your back...it's not worth losing your valuable opinion in this debate.

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Ah Dana...you really are in my head...lol.

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

Christa...it's a shame that you have had to resort to condescension to try and drive your points home. Sadly, it just makes your argument that much weaker because you refuse to see any merit in what we have said about science and proof vs. your and other interpretations of the Bible. I've already said that I appreciate the Bible as a historical document and find that it holds a plethora of information about the time that it was written...it also contains several stories and ideas about God...but nothing conclusive, as the men that wrote the Bible were doing so from their own point-of-view. Science isn't a point-of-view...it's based in fact-finding and that has been said for years. Whether or not you believe it is your prerogative but to insist that no one understands enough about science or the Bible to get what you're saying is to suggest that you know more about religion than anyone in the world. Give your head a shake and come back to the debate with something constructive.



"you and others don't have a strong enough grasp on science to even understand what I'm saying. I'm sorry for giving you so much credit" ---this is a low blow and completely inappropriate in a debate...just sayin'

Chatty - posted on 05/21/2010

@Christa.....FINALLY, your true colors EVOLVE! LOL! It's been apparent during this entire debate that you think you're superior to everyone!? I'm just glad you finally came out and said as much...



GET OFF UR DAMN HIGH HORSE! Does it make you feel good to talk down to people?

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

You are a very insulting and patronizing person Christa, my husband has a degree in astophysics from Edinburgh University one of the world leaders in science - where's yours from?
You seem to think you know so much more than everyone else but you have no idea of our back grounds or anything else about us - yet your main point of reference is a book of fiction. I no longer wish to discuss anything with you as you are so close minded and ignorant to anything any one else says I think my grasp of things is a lot stronger than yours.

Jaime - posted on 05/21/2010

I like Emerson's way of looking at life. He said that we are all seeking 'Divine Truth' and essentially what makes us individuals is also what unites us and provides a commonality amongst humanity. We are all unique and individual. We can share similarities with another person, but we have no duplicate in mind, body and spirit. We seek our own divine truth, but it remains a common goal for all humans...regardless of religious faith or atheistic realism. Faith and science are different. Some people trust the validity of science because it is quantifiable and there is no question of its existence. Some people have faith in religion because they choose to trust without questioning the non-existence of God...in whatever form he/it is worshiped. Regardless of these observations...one thing remains undisputed and that is that the Bible WAS written by Man and therefore it is and always will be open to interpretation. People can continue to quote scriptures all day long, but as someone pointed out, as one scripture is quoted another one is thrown up to refute the previous findings. Everyone has their own perspective of the Bible whether or not they are religious or atheist. There is vast knowledge of the Bible on both sides of the debate...but no one will fully understand the Bible and that is why it has no place in debates about life experiences. If we were debating religion then have at er...but when it comes to abortion, homosexuality, murder, lust, greed, science, the list goes on... these discussions are about FACT sharing, not about what the Bible views as right or wrong. If someone tells me that abortion is wrong because it is murder then I feel as though we have an acceptable ground for debate. If someone tells me that abortion is wrong because all children are a gift from God and it is a sin to take that away then I'm inclined to think they've spent way too much time internalizing the Bible and not enough time living...



I don't think it makes much sense to keep insisting that atheists prove that God doesn't exist, anymore than it makes sense to insist that religious people prove that God exists. We are free to believe what we want...that is the power of free will.

Christa - posted on 05/21/2010

@Gillian, you need to take a breath, I won't get into this more because you and others don't have a strong enough grasp on science to even understand what I'm saying. I'm sorry for giving you so much credit.

Anne - posted on 05/21/2010

I think a lot of humanity is stupid but Christians don't have any greater dibs on it than the rest. Stupidity just shows itself in how people interpret their religion. Some people canot see the meaning behind things and take everything far too literallly.

I think religious books should come with a foreword about what we know about the language of the time it was written (the metaphorical style of the hebrews), the difficulties in translation, the cultural significance of certain things (like the magic number 7), and the historical influences - what has likely been censored or re-written by the Romans. That would save a lot of problems.

Krista - posted on 05/21/2010

By the way, Louis XVI told me to have Special K this morning.

Then he looked at my butt and sadly shook his head.

Jerk.

Lady - posted on 05/21/2010

Okay so I got the bottom of the last page and thought that was it and decided I was done with this debate, then came on to the second page and sorry but can't just let it go.
@christa, Evolution has been obseved in so many species, it has been proven that our own is still evolving, scientists have fossils and and so much more evidence - go and do some f**king reserch before you make such ridiculous statements. My argument may come from a book but my book has REAL SOLID evidence to back it up that you can actually touch and see and can only be dismissed if you are so delusional you could believe that some mystical being has put it there as a test of faith!!!
Miracles and people being cures from diseases can only be atributed to god if that's what you want to believe but if you can take a step back and think for one tiny secaond that god does not excist then you might actually be able to see that there could be other explinations - doctors have come on in their treatment so much, peoples bodies are amazing and made to survive, freak accidents happen and the laws of chance are that although maybe 99 times out 100 the person would die there is always that other 1%. Children are a miracle but not of god of human nature - you may say where did they come from who created them but then who created god - it has to have started somewhere - why not with a chemical reaction that we can still OBSERVE to this very day rather than some mysical being that no one has ever seen.
I love Krista explination but I'm going to take it further.
You can not disprove god exists but can only look at the evidence to say he doesn't ie
I can say there is a big pink rabbit that lives in my house who is magical and talks to me no one else can see or hear it or touch it but me. How could anyone ever prove that it wasn't true - they couldn't BUT they could say that by the laws of physics and the rules of what is real and what isn't that no such creature could ever exist - god is the same - we can not prove that he does not exist because he is about as mystical as the big pink rabbit but by going on the evidence - the fact that we know that it is possible for particals to come into being from no where so have a reason for the universe to exist, we see tradigies and atrosities happening everyday so proof that he has no control over our world, there are explinations for most miracles and unexpected healings and if there isn't it doesn't mean it god it just means science hasn't discovered the answer yet and so many other things that point to the non existence of god. Science doesn't claim to have all the answers, we are discovering new things all the time though we are EVOLVING. But just because we don't know the answer to something doesn't mean automaticaly it must me MAGIC. That is a childs veiw of the world and we aren't children any more.

Tanya - posted on 05/21/2010

1 sometimes yes
2 George W bush-twice, Sarah Palin, John Hagee, Peter popoff, JImmy Swagert, TBN< the 700 club, Jank Van Impe Presents, SPANKING, CIO, Homosexuals, Birth control, smoking, drinking, tattoo, sex before marriage, so on and so on
Granted these are thing that i don't agree with them on but I have my reasons why i don't agree.
3 Yes if they said some of the stuff I have seen on here. I can not say for sure as I have not seen any poster of those religions yet

Kathy - posted on 05/20/2010

I don't think anyone is ever going to "win" in the matter of 'faith' vs 'science', which it often seems to come down to. I prefer to hame up my own mind, based on what I can see and have researched - I just don't get"faith." But I certainly wouldn't accuse anyone of being stupid because they have faith and I don't.

Which begs the question, of course - how is "intelligence" defined?

Alison - posted on 05/20/2010

1) Do you believe that to be true?

Sometimes

2) If you do, why?

There are many stupid people attaching themselves to the bible. I know this to be true because I've watched the God channels on cable.

A true student of the bible will appreciate the importance of wisdom, but how many people who hero worship their favorite TV evangelist study the bible? Look at all the false prophets, politicians and cults that claim to know the bible and many people are deceived by them.

Sadly there are even true brothers and sisters that are easily confused by these people because they lack wisdom and they're (it pains me to say it) a little bit stupid sometimes.

3) Would you ever say that about someone who is a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, etc...?

Some yes, some no.


As for myself, I couldn't care less if people think I'm too stupid to find my own arse without assistance. I know what I believe and that's all that matters to me.

Chatty - posted on 05/20/2010

WOW! This was fun....

Breanna - posted on 05/20/2010

wow thats strange. im not sure on any religion myself i havent really studied it but my parents are pretty religious. its hard to imagine that anyone would say that people are less intelligent because of there religion, you can say close minded or things like that i get but stupid? really? how do you know your smart thats my response to them lol

Kathy - posted on 05/20/2010

No, I don't think Christians are stupid, but I often wonder about their common sense.
Nobody has ever been able to explain to me how wars, famines, poverty, injustice can fit in with the concept of a loving God.

Tanya - posted on 05/20/2010

If you can't prove god you can't prove him wrong.500 years ago the church was burning witches. Also the lack light is called dark. the lack of heat is called cold b/c we can measure one you can measure both.

Kristin - posted on 05/20/2010

In answer to your questions:
1) No, I do not believe Christians are stupid, at least not the normal, average variety.
2) Not applicable or see #3.
3) Not under normal circumstances. I find zealots to be unbelievably arrogant, but not necessarily stupid. However, I apply this evenly across the board.

Celia - posted on 05/20/2010

I dont know Corena.

I dident even think your questions were considered a debate topic... more of a poll or questionnaire.

But apparently its now a debate on Homosexuality, the existence or no existence of a supernatural being. Proof of the unknown and evolution, and cellular biology.

I cant keep up... baby time!

Krista - posted on 05/20/2010

I like Bertrand Russell's take on it:

If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

In other words, philosophic burden of proof cannot lie upon the sceptic to disprove unfalsifiable claims of religions.

If I run around claiming that the ghost of Louis XVI lives on the roof of my house and tells me what to eat for breakfast every morning, and you say, "Um, no -- that's absurd", then using your reasoning, I could reply by saying, "No, you just don't BELIEVE that the ghost of Louis XVI is there, and I DO believe that he is there, and my proof is that he told me to have Lucky Charms this morning, and they were freaking AWESOME. So my viewpoint is just as valid as yours, because you cannot prove that the ghost of Louis XVI is NOT up on my roof this very minute."

Christa - posted on 05/20/2010

One last thing then I've got to run and . . you know. . be a mom. :-P I find it interesting those of you who put so much faith in science, something that has proven wrong time and time again. 500 years ago the smartest scientists were sure the world was flat and look how that turned out. So there’s no guarantee that current scientific truths will be so in 500 years. Yet me believing in God, who has not been proven wrong (though I know he hasn't been proven right yet either) is delusional. Doesn't make much sense to me.

Corena - posted on 05/20/2010

Can someone let me know when this gets back to what I actually asked?