Taking God out of the Courtroom, and our schools

Chatty - posted on 01/13/2011

Peace out!

Jaime - posted on 01/13/2011

Well ladies, it's been fun snacking with you...I've said about all I can say on this topic, so unless anyone wants to keep the ball rolling, I'ma take mine and leave :)

Melissa - posted on 01/13/2011

Well we celebrate Christmas in school, Easter, St.Patties Day and this is as far as it should go by force. They have special schools for religion, and they're very good ones I've heard. When it comes to law, there is no God I know of who would be allowed by my standards to forgive or judge better than I or a jury a criminal like a child molester or murderer.

Pamela - posted on 01/13/2011

:) kombucha!

Beck - posted on 01/13/2011

Guys stay on topic please... Beck
Mod

Meghan - posted on 01/12/2011

ohhh, ok.

Julianne - posted on 01/12/2011

yes, OVER-indulgence. not indulging in general.When we indulge, we allow ourselves to enjoy the pleasure of the flavor in food. Every time we eat we indulge. I dont know too many people who eat things they don't enjoy the flavor of. We indulge in anything we enjoy.

Meghan - posted on 01/12/2011

isn't gluttony an over-indulgence of something?

Julianne - posted on 01/12/2011

saying goddammit is a sin too. actually breaking the commandment :) gluttony may be a sin, but indulging is not.

Jo - posted on 01/12/2011

Gluttony IS a sin, Goddammit!

Jaime - posted on 01/12/2011

And if you roast them on a spit just right, they're niiiiice and tender too! :)

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

What's wrong with pigs? They're kinda cute!

Pamela - posted on 01/12/2011

Chocolate covered anything is good! Dammit. I'm so trying to be good and not to BE A PIG.

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

Haha! Fondue! Chocolate covered strawberries are the shit! mmmm....strawberries...

Jaime - posted on 01/12/2011

Fondue party?

Johnny - posted on 01/12/2011

Bubbles. I much prefer bubbles to philosophy. And chocolate. Mmmm...that just got me thinking about an Aero bar....

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

I bet you will! ;)

Pamela - posted on 01/12/2011

Girls! Now mind your manners! I'll bring the dip.

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

Look, JL -- I lay you however you want, just bring me some chips, bitch!

Jaime - posted on 01/12/2011

I would love a plain lay too Dana...er...I mean...ah, you weren't talking about that were you?

Jo - posted on 01/12/2011

Gluttony is a sin!

Sherri - posted on 01/12/2011

Oh and ice cream too!! I am there!

Teresa - posted on 01/12/2011

Bubbles, chips, and chocolate? I'm in!

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

I would love a bag of chips....not really a chocolate fan! Just some plain Lays would be great! ;)

Pamela - posted on 01/12/2011

love bubbles and bobbles too:o) I'll bring chocolate.

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

Yup, there's no admission or prerequisites.....just be ignorant and like bubbles!

Jaime - posted on 01/12/2011

So long as you bring some snacks with you!

Pamela - posted on 01/12/2011

Can I be one too? I wanna be a bubble head too!

Jaime - posted on 01/12/2011

Philosophy escapes me too Dana...we'll be bubble heads together! :P

Chatty - posted on 01/12/2011

*ducks so all this shit can easily fly over her head*

I like my lil' bubble, thanks!

Pamela - posted on 01/11/2011

Philosophy makes my head spin. But it's still pretty interesting.

Meghan - posted on 01/11/2011

No, I am pretty sure he was totally against it

Pamela - posted on 01/11/2011

Wasn't Camu a nihilist?

Meghan - posted on 01/11/2011

Isn't Nietzsche's main belief that modern science and secularization of European society influenced "the death of God" and that would lead to the fall of man??? I also believe his intent was perspectivism (the philosophical view that all perception always takes place from a specific perspective,) where as nihilistic view is "believing that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated." I haven't really studied too much about nihilism but from what I know, it is an extreme form of Nietzsche's position....just as people took Marx's communist manifesto and RUINED it.
But fun fact about Nietzsche....he had a mental breakdown and died. (It is in debate as to whether he had syphilis, manic-depressive illness with periodic psychosis, dementia or Cadasil)....so yeah, just throwing that out there

Johnny - posted on 01/11/2011

Although I may be incorrect, the moment that anyone uses the term minions, I am instantly aware of their self-perceived superiority. You may claim detachment, and I am sure that you have attempted to remove yourself from the multitudinous hordes, but it offers you a sense of being exceptional where all others are simply normal. I find that for your average nihilist, which I have unfortunately met more than a few, that sense of being special and profound is what keeps them from simply committing suicide. There is no meaning but one's own ego.

I may fundamentally disagree with the philosophical outlook of the religionists in this thread and elsewhere, but I refuse to accept meaninglessness. We are simply too small to understand our own existence. Choosing to pretend that we remain apart from that in which we are inextricably linked, is a foolhardy endeavor of child-like minds. It demonstrates a belief system that still requires faith, although like atheists, its subscribers continue to deny it.

"reality is that which doesn't disappear when you stop believing in it." ~ philip k. dick

Clarissa - posted on 01/11/2011

I guess that why its called indifference.

Jaime - posted on 01/11/2011

So Wendy, if you're a self-professed nihilist...how is it that you can be so accepting of your 'taken in hand' marriage arrangement? Doesn't that require you to lend some conformity to the authority of your husband? From what I have read it does. And I remember a thread, perhaps in another community where you vehemently defended your marriage to everyone that thought it a bit odd. I'm just curious how you can pick and choose what constitutes conformity? I am truly puzzled.

Pamela - posted on 01/11/2011

Here's a quote by someone (maybe my husband - if so, he's brilliant!), "It's easier to criticize than to solve problems."

Jo - posted on 01/11/2011

Pamela, your last paragraph made me think of a part of a book I adore - the autobiography of Emma Goldman called "Living My Life"

"At the dances I was one of the most untiring and gayest. One evening a cousin of Sasha, a young boy, took me aside. With a grave face, as if he were about to announce the death of a dear comrade, he whispered to me that it did not behoove an agitator to dance. Certainly not with such reckless abandon, anyway. It was undignified for one who was on the way to become a force in the anarchist movement. My frivolity would only hurt the Cause.
I grew furious at the impudent interference of the boy. I told him to mind his own business. I was tired of having the Cause constantly thrown into my face. I did not believe that a Cause which stood for a beautiful ideal, for anarchism, for release and freedom from convention and prejudice, should demand the denial of life and joy. I insisted that our Cause could not expect me to become a nun and that the movement would not be turned into a cloister. If it meant that, I did not want it. "I want freedom, the right to self-expression, everybody's right to beautiful, radiant things." Anarchism meant that to me, and I would live it in spite of the whole world — prisons, persecution, everything. Yes, even in spite of the condemnation of my own closest comrades I would live my beautiful ideal."
This section of her book also grew into a quote commonly
attributed to Goldman:

If I can't dance, I don't want to be part of your revolution.


Reading back on some posts - I will add another quote by the brilliant Emma Goldman:

"...it requires less mental effort to condemn than to think."

Pamela - posted on 01/11/2011

I could be wrong but I don't think Wendy ever said her family wasn't important.

Lacye - posted on 01/11/2011

Very well said Pamela!

Pamela - posted on 01/11/2011

Wendy, you are correct. You certainly do have the freedom to not concern yourself with "the world, because being human doesn't mean I am part of any "bigger picture".



Unfortunately, there have been those who've attempted to disconnect from the greater story or deny their inclusion in it, but usually, the world has a nasty way of butting in.



It's a darker philosophy you hold to Wendy and one that ultimately points only to the hopelessness of existence.



We have the freedom not to chose that darker vibe.



I guess I'll hang with the contemptible minions because that is where Jesus hangs. Perhaps that makes me a fool but I'd rather be that kind of fool. Of course we're all fools of one type or another. Whose fool are you?



And the parade of life is not about winning or losing. Anton LaVey got it terribly wrong. It's about living to the fullest. We are made for what is good and we are made to share it with one another. Perhaps I can't change the world, but I can make my small piece of it a good place to be.



Peace out ladies.

Teresa - posted on 01/11/2011

Ditto Sherri. I couldn't even begin to imagine (nor would I ever want to) living my life thinking that my friends, family, the kid down the street, etc... are irrelevant. Wow...

Sherri - posted on 01/11/2011

What a sad lonely way to live Wendy.

Wendy - posted on 01/11/2011

Regarding the phenomenon of blind conformity, Nietzsche said it best:

"At times one remains faithful to a cause only because its opponents do not cease to be insipid."

Therapeutic Nihilism is not a new concept nor is Existential Nihilism. These philosophies exist because at any given point in the human time-clock, there will be a cluster of individualists who are terminally free. Carol, you are arguing under the notion that I see personal opposition in the church or in Liberalism. I don't align myself with anti-religious causes or any other causes for that matter solely because my existence isn't affected by what they oppose. My family and I share geography with the minions but we don't share political, social, "spiritual" or (within the next few years) financial connections to "the man". Our choices are not far-fetched. If you have the desire to make the world better then you have the freedom to try, just as you have the freedom to condemn those who aren't in agreement. I have the freedom to not concern myself with "the world" because being human doesn't mean I am part of any "bigger picture". I also don’t "illustrate superiority through contempt for others". Sure, I just as anyone have contempt and hate for those who cross me. It's just as relevant as giving love to those who are deserving of it. However, my contempt is not about elevating myself in anyone else’s eyes, or even my own. I would have to care about the opinions of others in order for that to be the case. It’s not that I don’t care out of self-aggrandized haughtiness. It’s that I don’t care out of sheer irrelevance. Indifference is a natural outcome to a healthy sense of apathy.

Another great quote that clarifies that concept is:
"What does it matter who win's in the parade of life, when the reviewing stand is filled with corpses?"-Anton LaVey

Toni - posted on 01/11/2011

Sounds pretty similar, I would guess though that some schools are choosing to not do things like the traditional nativity at Christmas like they are here, which to me makes sense since in many schools Christianity is not the majority anymore.

Sherri - posted on 01/11/2011

They teach them about all religions on a general scale and about each religions traditions but not really the religious aspect too much Toni. I know especially around the holidays they will have parents come in who celebrate Christmas and talk about that, bring in foods that are traditional and do games, crafts etc, They will then do the same for Hanukkah, Kwanza etc.

Toni - posted on 01/11/2011

God is separate from the state because the USA is a multi-cultural place and has many religions, I am not so conceited to believe that my religion is the only one and should be the only one to be recognised, so which religion should be the 'right' one to be used in court-rooms etc, as everyone who believes in God believes the God they believe in to be the right one.

However, with that being said I don't think it is wrong to teach children about religion in schools, I'm not sure how it works in the States but in the UK many public schools have religious connections - we had Christian chaplins to come to the school for us weekly (and we wasn't in a religious school) and we also had weekly RE lessons where we learnt not only about Christianity but about several other religions. I feel this helps even those who do not believe because it builds up their knowledge about others beliefs and religions, which is the way to create openness and acceptance of everyone.

Jaime - posted on 01/11/2011

Nicely put, Carol. What you have said does make a lot of sense. It is man that has created the need for dependence on another, and perhaps if we were fully able to live independently of our own accord, we would not need to subscribe as 'sheep' to the social herd.

Sherri - posted on 01/10/2011

Carol, she baffles me I honestly don't even know how to respond to her. She is definitely over the top, even her profile pic is quite eccentric to say the least. I don't get her and really not so sure I want too.