MOST HELPFUL POSTS
Sara, and Shannon, I understand now that Shannon wasn't targetting me, personally, but it did come across that way. I misunderstood. My apologies.
But my point still stands. You have both judged humanity generally as being sinners. That's not personal opinion. That's judging others.
Jackie - posted on 03/24/2010
Shannon, it closed minded people like that that really leave a REALLY BAD TASTE in my mouth! You are completely out of your flippin mind.
Here is my question that I've never had anybody answer that made a bit of sense to me... and if you, Shannon, are going to answer with your non-sense that I'm going to hell, save it.
Let's say I'm a good person. I lead my life as a hard worker, I contribute to society, I don't lie, cheat, steal, and treat other as I would like to be treated. Basically, I lead my life as the "10 Commandements" says I should... But I don't neccessarily believe in GOD. OK
Then, I die. And I stroll up on the gates and then come to realize that I'm wrong. There IS in fact a GOD. According to Bible thumpers... I will certainly be turned away and banished to hell.
I have a hard time believing that the FORGIVING God would do something like that to a good person that led their life as best as anyone could.
Also why on earth would GOD give humans the ability to think with logic and reason then make "Believing" so incredibley difficult to do?! "You just have to have faith." Sorry. I don't buy it. I don not think that the bible was written to be taken literally. I think it was written to be used metaphorically (sp?). Do I think it teaches good life lessons? Yes.
I do not generally try to push my way of thinking on others so sorry if I went on a rant but it really gets my goat when people say that we're going to hell because we don't believe what they believe.
Sara, I don't know if that comment was directed at me or not but I have read the Bible. I was raised in a strict Baptist home and attended sunday school and church every week. I'm very familiar with the Bible.
I question the belief in heaven and hell because of what a minister once told me. I was doing a lot of reading about the Native American tribes and how things were done in the old days. I really admired their love of nature and their beliefs. I asked our minister one day if, since natives worshipped nature instead of God did they go to hell. He said that if you didn't worship God and believe in Jesus then you were going straight to hell. I was young at the time and even then that answer didn't sit well with me. If God created nature and the natives held such reverence for it, then wouldn't they be worshipping him by proxy? Providing they'd ever heard of God or Jesus, which they didn't until the European settlers arrived. Which brings me to another point, how can I go to hell or heaven for not believing in something/one I'd never heard of before? Doesn't make sense.
And we are included in the judgment. Personally, I can't say where any one person stands with God. But I do know that I am a sinner and I am grateful for what Jesus did at the cross. If you don't think you need it, you don't have to accept it.
Jessica - posted on 03/25/2010
oh and I have to add, cause I missed it before, Gods supposedly loves all his creatures but asks you to sacrifice them to atone for sins and then his own son...sadistic much?
And as a curve ball, I do actually believe that Jesus existed, that he did good things, and maybe was even killed the way they say but only because of people being so naive and hateful. People always need someone or thing to look up to, I bet he did live and do wonderful things for people, but was a regular man, not the son of god and I highly doubt his mom was a virgin...maybe just didn't know who daddy was so claimed a higher power...There have been many great men and women since that time....but they were just men and women who did great things.
Jessica - posted on 03/25/2010
When religion becomes the main point of a debate it is not longer a debate, when one sides answer is not a actualy thought out answer or argument but a reply with "cause God said so" . We should just get back to the topic at hand! I personally think the Greeks had the closest afterlife idea... I think, lol. I think maybe everyone gets to go meet Hades....whether your good or bad and then he sends you on your way and then your "heaven" is what you make it. :) I have so many theories on the afterlife, lol.
Jackie - posted on 03/25/2010
yeah, I don't expect anybody to agree with me on most things and I really do not enjoy getting into heated conversations about religion because it gets me fired up. (Especially because that isn't even what this thread was about,hahaha) But I almost always feel the need to put in my 2 cents.
Jackie - posted on 03/25/2010
Exactly Jocelyn. There is a time period called "BC" (as in Before Christ not Before Children). What about those people? There are just sooo many un-answered questions exactly like this one that I have a hard time with. In all honesty, I sometimes wish I had that kind of faith but the truth of the matter is... I don't.
When it comes to my little girl, I asked myself, I said,"Self, there HAS to be a GOD! If there wasn't then how could I have been blessed with this lil gift?" Then... a rationalized and said,"She may not be a blessing from HIM but definalty a blessing TO me." Does that makes sense to anybody??
I will not deny my kids going to church and things like that if they choose. I will introduce them to church and if they enjoy the invironment and the people and they so happen to learn something along the way... GREAT! But I will not push it.
I haven't "dodged" the question. I've simply said I believe they are wrong. Gillan, you're right. Everyone thinks they are the right ones.. I can't really answer that, except that I KNOW I'm right. Which doesn't really answer it at all.....I guess if I'm "wrong" I'll be the one going to Hell. But, I'm not wrong.:-)
Jackie - posted on 03/25/2010
It's ok that you believe whole-heartedly. To each is own. But.... I would like to know where you stand on other faiths. You've been asked a couple of times about Muslims, and Buddhism and the like and you've dodged the question.
Lady - posted on 03/25/2010
Shannon what if your wrong? Yours is certainly not the only religion that believes they are the only ones going to heaven. Roman Catholics believe that even if you are christian but not a Roman Catholic that you'll go to hell, I'm pretty sure so do Muslims. What makes your tuffty club any better than theirs?
I'm sorry you feel that way. I didn't intend to judge YOU, but all of humanity as a general population..
I've learned we will all believe what we believe regardless of other people's opinions & beliefs.
I'm not trying to "convert" anyone. Just stating what I believe to be factual.
LaCi - posted on 03/25/2010
"They say Jesus died for somebody's sins but god knows he didn't die for mine, 'cause I'll stand accountable for my own damn sins, each and every time. and if my sins are too great to be accepted in the circles which I strive then I'll go right ahead and live a long lush life in some small dive." Scroobius Pip.
happened to be playing when I read this :)
Shannon, I'm not a sinner, and I resent being told that I am. You/ve just judged me, even though you don't know me.You've accused me of hating and lusting. Expressing ones opinions is one thing, and I'm all for it, but judging others is not on, and is another reason I don't want a bar of the god your talking about.
Yes. We are ALL sinners. It's whether or no you admit to being a sinner & accept that Jesus died in our place to redeem us. Salvation, eternal life is a GIFT. A free gift from God, but to receive it you have to actually ACCEPT that gift. & believe what Jesus did for us is true.
Sure, you've never murdered anyone. But you've hated. You've never committed adultery, but you've lusted in your heart or eyes. Everyone has lied, or stolen.. We are all sinners.
God is supreme and just and cannot allow sin into Heaven because it is imperfect and Heaven is perfect. Jesus died in our place for our sins and if we accept that and ask forgiveness, our sins are covered. I am thankful that He provided a way for us imperfect humans to have life in Heaven.
Jessica - posted on 03/24/2010
You actually just managed to point out all the reasons I never could believe in your god....that does not sound like a loving, forgiving God, sounds like an ass to me...Makes me think of the saying " Who needs enemies with friends like that..."
Also, I'm not "judging", just stating what I believe to be fact, knowingly 99% of you don't agree with me. It's not easy coming to a forum where a HUGE percent of the people are against what you truely honestly believe.. But, I like the dabates & I like to TRY to make my point.
For Jackie...I thought I replied, but my post isn't here, so I'll try again....
The Bible says the ONLY way to the father is through Jesus, so even if you live a stand up life without believing, you will still go to Hell. The reason God can & will still send good people to Hell is because He has given you (saying you in general) time & time again to accept Him, but you keep refusing. He gave us freewill to choose because He wants us to genuinely choose Him. It is hard to believe & have faith in something you cant see, but that is why the reward is so awesome & the punishment so severe. He is forgiving, but once you're dead & realize you made a mistake, you don't get yet another chance to repent. He gives us our whole lives to repent & follow Jesus.
I agree it sucks & seems unfair, but who are we to question the Almighty God..?
Jocelyn - posted on 03/24/2010
Shannon you reminded me of a joke that I love :)
A Pagan dies and, to his great surprise, he finds himself standing before some pearly gates. The Pagan asks, "Where am I?"
Peter says, "You're at the gates of heaven."
The Pagan says, "But I don't believe in heaven."
Peter frowns at him. "You're one of those Pagans, aren't you?"
"Yes. I believe I'm in the wrong place; I'm supposed to go to Summerland."
Peter says, "Sorry. We took over Summerland, and it's temporarily closed for remodeling."
"What should I do now?"
Peter says, "Well, since we don't allow Pagans in heaven, you have to go to hell. Sorry. Just follow that path that leads downward and to the left."
The Pagan walks down to hell, where the gates are standing open. He walks in and finds beautiful meadows, happy animals, and clear streams of water.
He walks on in and begins exploring, and after a few minutes a courtly gentleman walks up to him and bows politely. "Hello, I'm Satan. You must be the guy that St. Peter phoned me about. Are you a Pagan?"
"Yes, I am. What's going to happen now?"
Satan says, "Well, the fishing's pretty good, if you enjoy that sort of thing. There's a little refreshment stand down the road. And I believe the Pagan meeting grounds are right over the next hill."
Suddenly, a hole opens up in the sky above, and a yawning chasm opens directly underneath it. The stench of sulfur fills the air. Hundreds of screaming, tortured souls drop down into the flaming pit, which immediately closes up with a thud.
The Pagan, hardly believing what he just saw, asks Satan, "And what was THAT ???"
Satan rolls his eyes. "Oh, just ignore them. They're Christians; they wouldn't have it any other way."
Jackie - posted on 03/24/2010
I would also like to add that I do not pass judement on anybody that has "faith". I just find it silly that the ones that are the quickest to pass judgement are the ones that take part in organized religion mainly Christianity. I shouldn't have used the term "bible thumper" because I know some people may take offence to that and that was not my intention.
Keisha - posted on 03/24/2010
Im not too sure... there COULD be something after we die I suppose. But then again there COULD not be. I guess none of us can really know for sure until it happens. Right now Im going to have to say that Im leaning towards nothing... when we die our mind shuts off with all the rest of our organs and that`s just the end of it, since that is the only thing that makes any actual sense to my mind.
Wanda, you can't take everything a minister says for Truth just because they are a minister. I don't think there is a definitive answer to that question in the Bible, but I do know that God is a God of love. He is also just. Knowing that I don't think He would hold someone accountable if they didn't know any better. But I'll be the first to admit that I don't have all the answers.
Sarah - posted on 03/22/2010
I'm not sure what i believe. I don't believe in any organised religion, i certainly don't believe in the Bible.
I would like to think there's "something" after we die. In all honesty though, there probably isn't, it's just that the human mind can't really comprehend NOTHING.
I guess we'll all just have to wait and see!
Lady - posted on 03/22/2010
Good point Wanda, I also think if god is supposed to be a loving giving god that care for all his children is he really going to make everyone who doesn't believe or know of jesus suffer eternal damnation even if they have lived an other wise good life - helped others and cared for their family? (of course I'm purely playing devils advocate here as I don't believe in any of it).
I don't know if I believe in heaven and hell but I do believe that there is something more beyond this life. Since Christianity is a fairly new religion (only around 2010 years, give or take), I find it hard to believe that anyone that lived before there was a Jesus was automatically banned to hell after He came around.
Lady - posted on 03/17/2010
It is deffinatley something I plan on looking into nearer the time, once we are slightly more settled. At the moment I'm not even sure which country I'll be in when the time comes as we are hoping to emigrating to Australia in the future, so I may be burried down under - we'll have to wait and see. Hopefully I'll have plenty time before it's something that I need to plan. The farthest my husband and I have discussed at the moment is that we want no mention of god anywhere near either of our funerals and what song he wants played.
Cassie - posted on 03/17/2010
Gillian, I would do some research. I know that in the US, there are some "green" cemeteries which are almost exactly as you described. There are dirt paths through the woods that lead to different "grave" sites. Each grave site has a small rock with the person's name on it but there is nothing fancy. People can plant flowers or plants that would naturally grow in the area around the grave but there is nothing put into the forest cemetery that would not decompose into part of nature. I thought the entire idea was wonderful.
Sunny - posted on 03/17/2010
Hmmm.... this is hard for me as i dont have a religion or a 'God' but i also cant wrap my head around 'nothingness' if that makes sense? I would love to believe that there is something more, not so much a heaven but some like reincarnation or past lifes ect, but i simply dont know what i believe yet. I would love to be able to take a little bit from every theory and religion and whack it altogether to make something awesome (and im not doomed in lol) but i just dont feel it, I wish i did though.
Lady - posted on 03/17/2010
When I die I would like to be burried in a biodegradable coffin in the middle of the woods somewhere and let the trees be nourished from me and really become, like you said Loureen, part of the circle of life. Not sure it's allowed though.
Charlie - posted on 03/16/2010
I am a big believer in energy , i dont think we just rot and thats it , our bodies play an integral part in the circle of life and our energies are released and re used .
My belief is once we die our energies are released back into the environment , our bodies go into the earth , decompose , eaten by ( for example )worms and other creatures who are then eaten by larger animals say birds who are then eaten cats ect ect ect , we are just another part of the circle of life.
Lady - posted on 03/16/2010
I don't believe in an afterlife, I think once we die that's it, it's like before we were born we knew nothing and that's what it's like after we die - that's what I've told my children and they seem fine with it as I've put it in language they understand. I think the way we live on is through our children and grandchildren - we pass on part of ouselves that way.
Jenny - posted on 03/15/2010
We are made of energy. Real energy, not used as a metaphor. I do not believe in a soul. When we die or energy is released back to the earth from where it came. Our "self" is passed on through the sharing of love and knowledge and that's just fine with me. =)
Rosie - posted on 03/15/2010
i've pretty much subscribed to the thought that when i die, that's it. i'll rot in the ground forever. that thought doesn't appeal to me very much, but i just can't find myself believing in something that i have no evidence that it exists. i'd like to believe that i'll be in a land of mermaids, unicorns, naked brad pitts, and gumdrop houses, i highly doubt that will happen. :)
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