The Duggars!

Marisa - posted on 05/11/2010 ( 53 moms have responded )

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i love watching the duggar family. i do think they shouldnt have so many kids for the sheer fact i donty see how you could love that many and bond and make them feel loved it always seem the older ones are talking care of the little ones. i know they will have as many as god will allow and i respect that. what do you all think ?

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Minnie - posted on 05/12/2010

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ATI is advanced training institute. Quiverful is a movement among some Christians, in which they choose to not use any method of birth control and leave the woman's reproductive health and how many children they have up to God.



But it goes much deeper than this. We can know what the Duggars believe because we know from their website that they are an ATI/Bill Gothard family. In order to be part of this program they must follow a very strict philosophy.



People can choose to believe what they want, that there is no abuse, that TLC wouldn't allow it blah blah blah, but the fact of the matter is that the Duggars wouldn't be allowed to remain in the ATI program if they didn't do what Bill Gothard wants them to do.



I personally know several quiverful families, and I can tell you that there IS abuse involved, both emotional and physical. Yes, it is the wife's choice to be part of this movement, but she is so entrenched in it she doesn't recognize it as abuse. The daughters are abused, in that they aren't provided a proper education, because Bill Gothard believes a woman's worth is subservience and pushing out as many babies as she can.

[deleted account]

Q: What is “Quiverfull?”

“Quiverfull” is a convenient, though I believe, somewhat unfortunate term which we’re using at No Longer Quivering to describe a family lifestyle which is growing in popularity among evangelical Christians ~ particularly those who home educate their children.

Quiverfull ~ is the idea that truly godly families will “trust the Lord” with their family planning. Children are viewed as unmitigated blessings (“As arrows in the hand of the mighty man, so are the children of ones youth, happy is the man who hath his quiver full of them”) and as such, the couple is willing to have as many children as the Lord chooses to bless them with. Artificial or chemical birth control such as the Pill or IUDs are equated with abortion ~ the sin of murdering your own offspring. “Natural” birth control such as Natural Family Planning is not actually “natural” because a couple must abstain at the very time of the month when the woman is naturally more desirous of physical intimacy. All methods of “conception control” is considered a lack of trust in God to provide for the “children of the righteous.”

Here’s how I described “Quiverfull” back when I still believed it:

Radically Pro-Life – A.K.A. “Quiverfull,” “allowing the Lord to plan our family,” or “trusting God with our family planning.” It is this ideal which has resulted in our having quite a few more than the average number of children. Why do Christians seek to limit the size of their families through the use of chemical birth control? The truth be told, our reasoning generally parallels that of the abortion culture – additional children will cause inconvenience, financial hardships, lifestyle constraints – all this coupled with the desire to separate sex from procreation. How can the Church expect to speak with any moral authority on the evils of abortion when we ourselves are guilty of the very anti-life values fueled by the family planning mentality?

I say that the term “Quiverfull” is “unfortunate” because, I don’t believe that many who are involved in this lifestyle would label themselves as “Quiverfull” ~ and also because it implies a special focus on the anti-birth control aspect of the lifestyle which is not necessarily primary among those who have adopted some or all of the beliefs associated with what might more aptly be called “the Christian family renewal movement” or the practice of “biblical family values.”

(A mouthful, I know ~ which is why we continue to refer to this lifestyle as “Quiverfull” and often “QF/P” to include the patriarchal teachings as well.)

Q. Is “Quiverfull” a denomination?

“Quiverfull” is NOT a denomination ~ those families which are involved are not required to ascribe to any particular doctrinal beliefs ~ you will find “Quiverfull” families in many different denominations, though they seem to be most heavily represented in more fundamentalist denominations (Baptist, “non-denominational,” Church of Christ/Disciples of Christ, etc.) as well as churches with Postmillenial/Dominionist leanings (“Orthodox Presbyterian,” for example) and especially among home fellowships.

The teachings of the Quiverfull lifestyle are spread primarily through the Christian home school movement. Many of the publishing companies which cater to the curriculum needs of the Christian home school community also publish and promote materials which address lifestyle choices regarding biblical family structure, roles, and practices.

A few of the most popular of these suppliers include:

Vision Forum

Grace & Truth Books

Rod & Staff

American Vision

Quiverfull ideals are also promoted through magazines which are popular among homeschoolers including:

Above Rubies

Wisdom’s Gate Publications: Home School Digest / Encouraging Word

SALT Magazine

Family Reformation Magazine

There are also several websites/ministries which are led by teens who are promoting the Quiverfull family values to Christian youth:

The Rebelution

Visionary Daughters

Christian parents who attend their local home school curriculum fair will find at least as much family-oriented materials as they do academic curriculum. Workshop speakers are as likely to talk about “How a wife can use reverence to build or save her marriage” as they are to teach parents how to help their high school-aged students learn advanced mathematics.

Q. What are the basic “family values” teachings which are frequently adopted by “Quiverfull” families?

Along with the idea of “trusting the Lord” in the area of family planning, here are some of the “values” which are promoted among QF/P families:

Patriarchy ~ this is the belief that by God’s perfect design, it is the father who is the head of the home ~ in his leadership capacity, the father serves as protector, provider and shepherd for his wife and children. He is primarily responsible for the wife’s and children’s physical, emotional and spiritual well-being and with such responsibility comes the (divinely granted) commensurate authority over the members of his household. According to this view, God works through the father and he serves as an intermediary for his wife and children. Honor, obedience and submission are highly valued qualities because they are necessary to maintain order and work together to accomplish the Lord’s vision for a godly family.

Courtship or Betrothal instead of dating ~ the father’s protection of and authority over his children extends especially to the choosing of a mate. In this system, the fathers play a very influential role in the “courtship” process. Every family seems to have its own take on exactly how courtship is to be carried out. Typically, if a young man is interested in a particular girl, he will consult with his father who then approaches the father of the young lady to discuss the possibility of a potential match. If the girl’s father is in agreement, he will then talk to his daughter ~ and if she shows an interest, the courtship (or betrothal ~ which is as binding as marriage) begins and this basically means that the couple is serious about getting married. The parents are in control of the relationship at all times. The couple is not to be alone together. The courtship / betrothal period is usually brief and it is expected that the couple will experience their first kiss at the marriage altar. At that time, the father’s authority over the daughter is transferred to her new husband.

Sheltering of the children ~ the home school mindset includes the basic belief that children are to be protected and sheltered from “the world” ~ outside influences which could be detrimental to the child’s spiritual well-being. It is often quoted that “foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child” ~ this coupled with the scripture which says, “a companion of fools shall be ruined,” leads to the logical conclusion that children (fools) should not be socialized by other children (fools) ~ but instead should learn social skills from adults. Isolation and control of outside influences is not only considered normal and good ~ it is the godly approach to childrearing.

Biblical Manhood and Womanhood ~ the teaching is that God designed males and females to fulfill distinct roles and that men and women cannot be truly satisfied unless they are consistently filling their special role as a man or woman of God. Men are to be leaders, teachers, initiators, protectors and providers. Women are created to be “helpmeets” to the men in authority over them (husbands, fathers, older brothers) ~ they are to be submissive and yielding. Their primary sphere of influence comes from their role as wives and mothers. The woman’s home is her ministry and her children are her mission field.

Being debt-free and independent of government programs/subsidies ~ adoption of this ideal often leads to financial hardship and deprivation in large families. In order to achieve financial independence, a QF/P family will often move to a rural location or live in sub-standard housing. Wives often operate businesses out of their home, often employing the children to help with the work, in order to supplement the husband’s income. Refusal of government assistance sometimes means that these families go without medical insurance ~ a situation which can influence the parents to choose “natural remedies,” home birth, and similar non-medical approaches to family health.

Home Church / Family-Integrated Church ~ because the family (primarily the father) is seen as the primary conveyor of spiritual guidance and teaching, QF/P families often seek fellowship with like-minded families in a setting which is not age-segregated. The children worship and learn alongside their parents and peer-interaction is closely monitored by the adults / young adults who are present.

Modesty ~ a girl or woman whose clothing is “revealing” is guilty of “defrauding” her Christian “brother” ~ because she is tempting him with impure thoughts in relation to a body (hers) which is not rightfully his to possess. Quiverfull females often wear dresses only ~ many will also wear a head covering as a sign of a woman’s submission to her “head” ~ that is, her husband.

Not all Quiverfull families subscribe to all of the family values listed above ~ and not all accept and practice these teachings to the same degree. There are Quiverfull families which do not home school. There are Quiverfull couples who, while paying lip-service to the “husband as head” mandate, in actual practice are much more egalitarian (mutual submission) when it comes to the decision-making process.

Generally the longer a Christian family is involved in the home school community, the more deeply they become involved in this “family values” lifestyle ~ it is a process which transforms a “normal” family into a patriarchal cult completely at odds with the general population. In fact, the more “peculiar” (set apart) the family becomes, the more they consider themselves “true believers” following “the narrow way” as opposed to their neighbors who are on the “broad path which leads to destruction.”

Jackie - posted on 05/12/2010

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I disagree. I think that they are bit out of the ordinary but they are raised with love, values, and respect. I am not a religious person so again, not my thing. But they are clean, happy, well behaved children. I don't think that the girls are raised to be baby making machines. It's a personal choice.

I do not think that a reality TV show can be on for as long as they have and not uncovered some deep dark secret that they have been hiding. If thye have one.. SOMEBODY would have uncovered it by now, I think. I think their way of life is intriging to say the least and again, they all look healthy, happy, and smart. Which is more than I can say for a lot of people with just one kid.

Minnie - posted on 05/11/2010

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Read through Ruth's blog below, and learn what ATI/Bill Gothard (the Duggars are one) families believe.



She is a college student, who grew up in a family that follows ATI/Gothard and is currently undergoing counseling due to her upbringing.



Read from the first post. It's riveting, and appaling.



http://razingruth.blogspot.com/2009/06/w...



TLC will never show its viewers what an ATI family really is like.



Bill Gothard requires very strict adherance to his rules of families participating in his program, thus we can know the sort of philosophy the Duggars hold.

Minnie - posted on 05/19/2010

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"They had to have used something years ago....."



A low-fat diet, active lifestyle, and ecological breastfeeding for several years is the likely answer.



I'm amused at the Duggar's belief that they are following God's plan in conceiving babies because Michelle weans her babies prior to one year. That's not the biological norm. Frequent nursing, keeping baby in close contact with mother during the day along with cosleeping at night and nursing for several years is what is biologically normal. She wouldn't have 19 children if she did that.



Bill Gothard places a lot of a woman's worth on how bountiful her uterus is. I bet at least in part they're having that many just for the sake of it.

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Hannah - posted on 03/10/2012

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I think some people have a very strong need to care for and nurture children, however this dosn't have to be your own. Surely they could have had an average size family and used their nurturing side in their work or through fostering?



There are natural methods of birth control e.g. the rhythm method, but in the past the harsh truth was that most babies just didn't make it due to poverty, poor health and medical knowledge.

Tanya - posted on 05/20/2010

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Does anyone know the name of the christian sex video Jim bob gave Josh at his wedding.
Also I just found this
Jill Duggar is the fourth of 19 children, and mom Michelle Duggar reports that Jill is interesting in pursuing a nursing career, especially after spending so much time in the hospital with her newest baby sister, Josie Duggar. Michelle says that Jill is currently checking into nursing courses at nearby colleges. “I can see her doing that. She just literally loves people,“ mom said of her second daughter. “It takes a special person to be a nurse and to be in that realm. She’s definitely interested in that, so we’ll see,” Michelle added on her most recent TLC blog entry.
http://www.examiner.com/x-49382-19-Kids-...

Nicole - posted on 05/19/2010

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Yep, I agree with Lisa. Women were not as fertile as they are today because of the hardships they're bodies underwent (and breastfeeding). Not to mention that some of those same hardships probably effected the survival of some children/babies.

Katherine - posted on 05/19/2010

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I was thinking the EXACT same thing. People didn't have a million kids. They had medium to large families, nowhere near the size of the Duggar's. They had to control it somehow I just googled this topic because of another debate and nowhere in the bible does it actually say not to use birth control. They had to have used something years ago.....

Anne - posted on 05/19/2010

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So if they think that chemical birth control is like abortion (presumably because it can terminate a life that has started), and that natural rythm method is going against natural, God given impulses, then what is wrong with condoms? Is God's will going to be defeated by a thin layer of latex?
I also wonder, even without birth control why they end up with so many! It wasn't so long ago that birth control didn't exist and people did have large families but hardly ever more than 5 or 6 children. In my mum's hometown there was just one lady who had 10 and her last two were quite sickly and mentally retarded. I think her body had not been capable of carrying them all. Also when my mum was little it was not uncommon to sell/give children up to families who had none. A lady offered to raise my mum because she was one of 6 siblings and on another occasion a lday offered to buy her. People understood that when you got to that number it often wasn't possible to take care of them all.
So are the Duggers really just leaving it up to God or are they frantically going at it to create as many as they can? How do they even find time for procreation with so many children?!!

Katherine - posted on 05/18/2010

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They can handle it. Period. They definitely should not be an example for others to go out and do it, but they manage and it's their belief and it works for them. I still can't believe Mrs. Dugger's vagina hasn't fallen out, but that's another story. I can't imagine how hard on the body that many births would be.

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I recently read an article considering the question, "How many children is too many?". Strictly from a health stand-point, I think it was after 4 or 5 mother and baby's risks go way up. Never mind what happens at # 19....

Katie - posted on 05/17/2010

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It is totally up to an individual to decide how many children they have. From what I have seen (and of course TV could be making these people look a lot better) they have well behaved, polite, intelligent children...Which is a lot more that I can say for some of the parents that I've met with only one child, or a few children. They are conscious of their environmental foot print, they don't receive government assistance, they do missionary work, they bring firefighters and police officers home made cookies! Don't get me wrong I'd say that there is a solid chance that they are complete nutjobs. But they are happy nutjobs.

[deleted account]

I don't have a problem with the Duggar family, but there are a few groups that surround this type of movement that are bad. I read several blogs on the razingruth site that were very disturbing and wrong on every level. I don't think it's fair to compare every big religious family to every cult exposed on the net though. Even though the Duggars (and probably everyone in their church) take a very strict and legalistic approach to living out their faith that goes above and beyond the teachings in the bible, I wouldn't go as far as to call them a cult.

Shelley - posted on 05/17/2010

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I think it works for them they are a real team & seem like they are all fairly happy in their family unit I wonder though with the early birth of their last & all the moms problems if they will have more.

Nicole - posted on 05/16/2010

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Oh! HA HA Heather! Oops!

And thanks for pointing me in the right direction. I SO hope those poor Duggar girls are not treated like that. That is so sad! Also sad for Michelle.

Heather - posted on 05/16/2010

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Nicole, I am sorry if you thought I was talking about you in my post...I was talking about the people who think that the way the girls are raised is ok...just because they seem happy. I also dont care about how many children people have, or if they leave it up to God to decide...that is their choice, and as long as the kids are all treated well and cared for equally...I have no issues. However, if a family is following the teachings of Bill Gothard, the girsl are, without a doubt being treated like second class citizens...that is the root of this mans teachings...keep the women uneducated, and pregnant.

The Duggars (on their own website) never say they follow Gothard directly...however they have links to his teachings several times in the FAQ section http://www.duggarfamily.com/faq.html such as "the hidden message of the lost pearl" which is taken directly from gothards teachings and there are links to his page at the bottom of it. pretty much every link in the FAQ section references the gothards teachings or books that support him.
If you do a google search for "are the Duggars associated with Bill Gothard" you will find pages and pages of sites that agree that they are, I am sure they can not openly admit that they follow his ministry because of the neg. effect it could have on TLC and their show.

Nicole - posted on 05/15/2010

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I'm sorry, my post must have sounded confusing in my ramblings. I do not agree with this Gothard, either (and I did research, too). My point was that just because someone is against birth control and wants to leave their fertility up to faith, doesn't make them a following of Gothard. Many Catholics still believe in not using birth control. As do some of the families I personally know (that I referred to in my last post).



I, also, couldn't find any concrete evidence in my research that the Duggars belong to this "cult". If you did, send me the link, I got too engrossed in reading the craziness of this guy, that I ran out of time and stopped looking.



My point, also, was that there can be abuse and oppression of women and girls anywhere, not just within this group, and that is horrifying.



About the husband being the patriarch. For ME, that does not mean that I, or our children, are to be subservient to him. Being the patriarch doesn't mean that he is ruler over us, it has to do with his relationship within our faith. I hope this clears up my rambles.

Heather - posted on 05/15/2010

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My problem is not with the fact that they have so many children, and yes, they look happy on T.V. But, I dont believe everything I see on T.V. and did some research as have a few of the other posters, and I started reading about Bill Gothard, and was totally disgusted...the more I read, the more I have a problem with the way the girls/woman are treated...the women are taught from a very young age what their role is, and have been raised not to question it...they are raised to be subservient. Sure, they have a choice, but this is what cults do, they brainwash you into thinking that this is the way "God" commands things to be, and they obey. The men do not allow the women to have an education, to keep them from leaving...these women are not allowed to go to college and are unable to leave...how would they support all the children? I cant believe there are so many women who think that oppressing women in any way is ok...even if they look happy on T.V....the group the Duggars represent, are not full of happy women and I for one will never watch the show again...ever.

Nicole - posted on 05/15/2010

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I, personally, feel that someone following the belief that God decides a woman's fertility does not automatically categorize them to be dehumanizing to women or girls. I think women can choose to be in charge of her own fertility or to let God decide. In the end, she can still make the choice. A woman can also choose to allow her husband be the head (patriarch) of the home. There are always going to be people who can abuse an idea or use for their own gain at the expense of others. This does not mean the whole idea is flawed. Just some of the people practicing it. I do not follow this Bill Gothard is, nor have I ever heard of him, but there are many in the faith that I belong to who follow this belief. And they are self-sufficient and self-reliable and that is wonderful.



*edited to add* When I say "follow this belief", I meant they believe in not using birth control. Sorry, I think I worded it a bit confusing.



I am sure this man exists. Just as I am sure that he has a large following. And I am even more sure that there can be abuse among the women and children in this following. There are always going to be bad people who twist good ideas to hurt others. Do I think the Duggars are these people? I don't know. I don't know much about them but what I see on tv and I know that is not always going to be 100% honest. Do I hope that the Duggars are not a part of this man's following? Yes!



Now, I, myself, do like the idea of letting God determine fertility, but since women now do not endure the hardships that women of the past did, our fertility, in general, is better. Just as the mortality and morbidity rate of our children is likely to be better than those in the past. Therefore, I feel that God has now given me the choice (through scientific advancement) to know when it is the best time to have more children and when it is time to stop.



About the older siblings helping to raise the younger ones. I have no problem with this. It doesn't appear to me that Jim Bob or Michelle are lazy and unproductive parents. (Again, tv could always make things look better.) Both parents seem to be very business savvy and proactive in the caring and rearing of their children. Furthermore, the children look like they have lots of fun and seem quite happy. It has been only recently, that the idea of older children helping with younger siblings has been lost. I think it teaches them responsibility and respect for others. It also gives them good training in caring for their own children someday. If they were not allowed any time to be playful or have fun, that would be an injustice to them, but to help care for each other, care for the family home, grow together and have fun together is what I feel is part of being a family unit.



Sometimes I think about the divorce rate today and I think that maybe choosing our own mates is failing us miserably. LOL Do I think we all need to go back to the idea of betrothing and arranged marriages? No. Will it works for some? Yes. And if it works for them, fine. Would it have worked for me? Heck NO! My parents failed miserably at their own marriage, I would have never trusted them to find a mate for me. ha ha

Kristy - posted on 05/14/2010

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Okay, I have read quite a few of the responses on here. I feel for Ruth's story; however, I do not think that is the Duggar's story necessarily. To judge otherwise without having the facts would be playing God, and I am not God. I don’t feel the kids are being mistreated. If you have watched the show – and it seems most people on here have – I don’t know the last time I have seen a family that smiles and laughs so much. I also agree with the fact that if there was a deep dark secret, it would have been uncovered by now. I mean look at John and Kate plus eight.

As far as making them help with the other siblings, and help with chores around the house…seriously what is wrong with that. I think that is better than letting them play video games all day, or veg out in front of the TV. I know kids like this, and they are unhappy kids who complain about how bored they are, or how unfair life is. They get to play video games and watch TV all day, what is there to complain about! These kids often end up on VH1’s teen pregnancy show “16 and Pregnant” because lack of structure and boredom leads to mischief.

The Duggar kids have structure, and discipline. They are not being abused. I never hear them complain on the show. I have seen the kids on that show play, ride bikes, the older ones get privileges too like going out to dinner together. As far as their chores, let’s face it life is work. When these kids grow-up they are going to know self-discipline and how to go after the things they want, and that life is work. When did work become such a bad word? Do we want to raise a generation of slackers who have been coddled their whole lives? I mean love your children, yes. I love and kiss on mine daily. I tell them all the time how much I love them, but that doesn’t mean you cater to them and never make them lift a finger to help out around the house. Kids need and crave discipline and structure.

Now don’t get me wrong. Do I agree with having so many children? No. However, it isn’t my life, and from what I can see the Duggars are doing a pretty good job supporting and raising happy, healthy kids and at the end of the day that is what it is all about.

[deleted account]

I think they are extremely efficient and organized people and their children are better behaved than probably any children Ive ever seen in my life. I think it's amazing that they are debt free, have a clean house, cook 3 meals per day for that many people and that they're happy doing it. I think it's wonderful that these children are being taught strong morals, standards and principles and to live a clean life. They all seem so happy, all of them, so if they're happy who's to say that they're wrong? It might be wrong for YOU to do it, it definitely wouldn't work for ME to do it but why should anyone tell them they're wrong for doing it and doing it well? The only concern I have is the amount of individual attention the children get, especially the little ones. I have 2 children and they are constantly fighting for my attention and get jealous of one another so I couldn't imagine having 19. Even if the children are ok with this, since that's all they know, I wouldn't be ok with it as a mom bc I would want to nurture my babies so closely and bond with them and never miss a beat...you can't do that with 19 kids and you probably miss alot of the little things.

Toni - posted on 05/13/2010

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I, like you, love watching their show. I just find it so fascinating. I do think they have to many children. Like you stated, there just isnt enough time in the day to give that many children the amount of love and attention that they need and deserve. However; they all seem happy and are so well behaved. So, what do I know!!

Ramona - posted on 05/13/2010

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I think that if they can support that many then it's a matter of personal choice. It's not like they're octomom and trying to get more food stamp money for the sheer fact of "I love kids"....that's awesome. If you cannot FEED them, you can volunteer at a daycare. Creating more is not necessary to show your love, and it is not necessary to use my tax dollars to fund your obsession! I have nothing against people on welfare, I receieve WIC and Medicaid (TEMPORARILY as it SHOULD be!!!!) but I don't plan on creating more children to be funded by it until I am OFF of assistance. So the way I see it, the Duggars are pretty damn efficient and their lifestyle may not be for me, but they can support them all so more power to them!

[deleted account]

I think they're nuts! Sorry but I don't have time to elaborate at the moment....just my initial opinion!

Lyndsay - posted on 05/13/2010

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I can't stand those people. I think that if you are going to have children, you should raise them yourself. I am all for older siblings helping out their parents, but I am totally against older siblings BEING the parents. This woman has a baby, coddles it for a few months, then passes it off to her older kids when she learns she's pregnant again.

[deleted account]

To be fair to the "as many as God allows" mentality, I know of people who follow this and only ever had 1 or 2 children. Big families with 10+ children like the Duggars are the exception to this movement rather than the rule.

My only objection to her continuing to have kids is the fact that she's not getting any younger. Surely she can't keep having babies forever and how are they going to look after them all when their health starts to go?

I don't have a problem with them having the number of children they've currently got though. They seem like a lovely family.

Tanya - posted on 05/12/2010

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Yeah I did the math beyond that and gggggrandkids would number over 47 million If you allow 50 year per generation that would mean in 250 year duggar could be a race on the census cards

Amy - posted on 05/12/2010

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I remember one Today show episode where the Mother Michelle stated that they tried birth control after having their first baby but she didn't like the way it made her feel and they blamed the birth control for her miscarriage so she went off of it.

Jane - posted on 05/12/2010

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I think they are selfish individuals. Making older children care for younger ones is lazy on the parents part. If they want to "RAISE" everyone of them themselves, that's fine but having children and making your other children raise them is just plain selfish and robbing the children of being children. I do not think that having 19 (and counting) children is environmentally responsible also. I think they are exploiting their children by putting them on TV. I think these kids are either already screwed up (the older ones) or will be when they grow up. They are brainwashed and do not know reality at all. There ya go...that's my opinion!

April - posted on 05/12/2010

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i don't like them. I think TLC is edits out a lot of stuff like they did with Jon and Kate. i don't think they are good people at all. i think they use their children. Of course it is easy to have 19 children when all your other children take care of them.



and about their children all being sweet/angelic and never misbehaving? NO child is that perfect. These kids were trained like animals.

Colleen - posted on 05/12/2010

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Tanya S. that was the funniest thing I've read yet!!!! can u even imagine?

Marisa - posted on 05/12/2010

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yes i agree they seem like nice people and good parents with wonderful children but why why do that to you body and you children u say love why make them raise you kids

Rosie - posted on 05/12/2010

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i do wonder how they are apart of the quiverful religion if they really are the way they are portrayed on tv. but at the same time you would think that if there was anything going on that a tv producer, photographer somebody somewhere would say something was going on that was fishy.
i don't agree with the way women are treated and i definitely don't agree with the whole buddy system thing. i do think they are good parents, with good kids, i just think that they need to have stopped having kids a long time ago, but i see no evidence of actual harm to these kids, so who am i to judge. if she wants her uterus to fall out then by all means keep pon popping out the kids, but my god, krista's right, god invented vasectomies-use it.

Marisa - posted on 05/12/2010

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i feel soo bad for this family. i feel bad for the daughters and all the other kids. you cant feel loved having to share two parents with 18 other kids., and as a parent i dont think u can love and make 19 kids feel loved. when you have one and pass it off to oen of ur older ones to raise. what about the duggars friends the bates??? i think they are in compition to have more than the duggars.i understand " let god decide" but maybe hes sayin hey stop youve lost one and had one @ 25 weeks.

Tanya - posted on 05/12/2010

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Wow Krista. I just saw the show and started doing the math, but that is pretty scary stuff. I have seen on the show that the oldest son who is married says he plans on having as many kids as god will allow.

Krista - posted on 05/12/2010

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Tanya, that's actually the point, from some sources I've read -- that one of the goals of Quiverfull is basically to out-breed the non-believers, so that eventually, the majority of America is made up of "their" people.

Amy - posted on 05/12/2010

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This is the first time in my life that I've heard of ATI and QF too or Bill Gothard. This is what maks America great. They have the right to religion, whichever religion they want. If you think its a cult, don't join. I know people who think I'm part of a cult they just don't understand my religion just like I don't understand there's. Yes I think 19 is too many children but then My grandma was the last of 18 so I know how big this family can get and I love having an extended family that big.

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Well I have 4 and thats all I'm contributing! I can't imagine having any more or I'd go bat shit crazy too (hell some days I think I'm half way there already) lol

Tanya - posted on 05/12/2010

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So I think everyone else needs to start popping out babies to fight the Duggar army

Tanya - posted on 05/12/2010

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If the Duggars 19 kids have 19 kids it will be 361 grandkids. If they all have 19 kids 6,859 great grand children. And this is only one family doing this. If all the families that believe this continue then they could take over america. If the 6,859 have 19 kids 130,321.

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I watched last night actually. The little baby got to go home and then got sent back after only 48 hours home with digestive problems:( They do own 7 businesses and have never been on assistance ever. They have never used credit in their lives and have bought everything they have with cash including their huge ass house, a greyhound, and multiple vehicles. However I don't think they are having anymore after the last on irregardless of their religion. Why? Last night they hinted that they may adopt more children now?!!?! That has nothing to do with leaving god up to how many kids you have and last time I checked there are alot of people who wait years to adopt kids who don't have any at all. That is when I came to my final conclusion about these people. Their just bat shit crazy! lmao

Heather - posted on 05/12/2010

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Also, do you really think reality T.V. is really reality??? They have editors, and if something happens that may make them look bad...its edited out...just like ALL reality tv. That show makes TLC tons of money...they are not going to show anything that will make them lose viewers or ratings...or more importantly, MONEY. I think its funny that people think that T.V. producers have morals...everything on T.V. is made to make money...period.

Heather - posted on 05/12/2010

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you only have to do a little bit of research to find out how bad this movement/religion/cult...whatever you want to call it, is. The Duggars are paid very well by TLC but that is not usually the case...most of these families use government assistance to get by. There is a whole group of people who help these women and girls get out of this movement, and assist them with getting into college and out of abusive arranged marriages...it may seem like its all rainbows and roses on T.V., but in reality it is very dark and abusive, and the little girls have no choice but to endure being mistreated and abused.

Erin - posted on 05/12/2010

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@Cynthia- http://www.khurak.net/quiverful-religion...



I watch the Duggars, I like to watch to see how they do things. BUT we don't know what happens behind closed doors. The tv show only portrays a small portion of the Duggars lives. To me, they seem way to happy to me all the time, They never show the children being bad or misbehaving.

Cynthia - posted on 05/12/2010

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I watch the show every once in a while. I do feel bad for the kids. I just can't believe they keep having more, because the more you have, the more possibility for complications. It made me SO sad watching about their newest addition, her prematurity and size, breathing problems etc. And would they really have enough money to keep popping out more if not for the tv show?
Also, what do ATI and QF stand for? Can't find it online...

Amy - posted on 05/12/2010

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I'm with Jackie. I don't beleive the Duggars would still be on TV if they had some deep dark secret. I also don't beleive they would be on TV if there was any child abuse going on in the family. I like watching the show. I do think they give the boys more opportunities but if you watch the show religiously then you also see that the older ones get to do more things then the younger ones as it should be. I don't want to send my 5 year old to Ecuador, I think is where they went to learn about a different culture and help build houses for people in that country. I think the kids have more opportunities thanks to the show and because of homeschooling. How many times have they gone to New York to be on the Today show and the mother uses it as a school trip where they get to see other museums. THey travel alot and help other people. At least that's what they show on TV. I like seeing kids raised in a loving home, with morals and values.(unlike some MTV show but that's a different topic) Sorry to Rant, Just my opinion.

Krista - posted on 05/12/2010

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Her body, her business. BUT, since you're asking us for our opinion, I think it is very irresponsible for her to keep churning out babies at this point, as she is risking leaving her other children motherless. I do truly hope that their daughters are being given the same opportunities and encouragement as the boys, but somehow, I have the sinking feeling that these girls are being strongly encouraged/raised/brainwashed to pursue no path other than that of wife/mother.

Mind you, I'm not a huge fan of religion anyway, nor am I a fan of people who pump out baby after baby, saying that it's God's will. If there is a God, he also gave us a brain in our head, and some people used those brains to invent a nifty little procedure called a vasectomy. Maybe it was his will that we actually USE some of the modern medicine that we've invented.

Marisa - posted on 05/12/2010

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The Duggars raise their children using the buddy system, in which an older sibling assists the younger sibling in daily tasks. The older buddy "will get the younger ones' meals." According to Mrs. Duggar, "They help them with their little phonics lessons and games during the day and help them practice their music lessons. They will play with them or help them pick out the color of their outfit that they want to wear that day, and just all of those types of things.
thats what gets me she has alllll these kids and has her older ones raise them. they dont even get to have a childhood

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I've never watched them (we don't have t.v.) but I've checked out their website. I think they are amazing. I would never be able to do what they do. & the children are trained up so well. I started using her recipe for laundry soap.. super easy, cheap & works great. Saves us a ton. :-)

Heather - posted on 05/12/2010

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Lisa, after reading Ruths blog, and doing a little research on this topic, I am positive that the Duggars are a QF/ATI family and I will no longer be watching the show. Why would any woman want to be part of this? To me it is child abuse...Ruth mentioned in some of her blogs some very disturbing things that are practiced in these homes, such as blanket training...which I had never heard of but apparently you put a baby on a small blanket when they first start to crawl and if their hands or feet go off of the blanket, they slap the hands or feet until the baby learns to only stay on the blanket...WTF? buy a play pen for gods sake! A few of the other things that I found disturbing were the fact that only the boys were allowed to have razors and deodorant...the girls could not shave or use deodorant...and they were not allowed to use the bathroom alone! Ruth, at age 7 had to share a room with her infant sister, and basically took care of her and raised her...at age 7. On one of her more recent blogs, she announces that her sister...and MOM are both pregnant...her mom is in her 50's and her oldest child is almost 30 and her youngest 13...wow...this is such a cult, and its leader is the slime bag Bill Gothard, who has had a few sex scandals since the 80's...and has never been married and is childless...it amazes me that people follow him. Oh yeah, and they betroth their daughters, which is why this girl ran from her family, the man her father chose for her threatened her the night he gave her the ring...so she ran...poor kid!

I feel bad for the Duggar girls, and Michelle...but mostly the girls, as they have been born to basically be Au Pairs and then are expected and trained to become submissive house wives whos only purpose is to birth and care for children....sad...

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I think that they have more kids than any 3 couples COMBINED should have. Seriously. I'm glad that money isn't an issue for them, but just because you can afford 19 kids doesn't mean you should have 19 kids. I feel bad for their older kids that they have the added responsibilities of having so many younger siblings, and I feel bad for the younger kids that their parents have already lost the wonderment of having young kids. I don't understand this whole 'we'll have as many kids as god allows' thing, either. Isn't it putting the mom's health at risk for her to have so many pregnancies? What if she dies during labor or delivery of the next one? Then she'll leave 19 or 20 kids without a mom.
Are they any more happy/fulfilled/etc. with 19 kids than they would have been with, say, 10? I don't understand it.

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