The Motherhood Penalty

Emma - posted on 04/09/2010

Yip they are i know 3 signal dads all with full custody and they will tell you it's even harder for them than a signal mom . i think its all to to with our gender stereotyping.

I think somewhere in our subconscious we all still have the notion that Dads work Moms stay home and look after the kids. Even if we logically know that this is not the only way things can be done,
Woman's lib and equal right in the work place is still historically seeking in its infancy.

Just look at how harshly we judge woman that walk away from there family's in comparison to men, there is a huge double standard.

Erin - posted on 04/09/2010

I think there should be a base pay and promotions and such should be handed out as someone's work deems necessary. I could understand why someone would not want to hire a mom, especially a new mom! I have a friend that only seemed to get child care taken care of for 2 wks and then had to quit working, and did this for like 3 different jobs! But her work history would speak volumes! I also don't think that just because someone has a kid means they are automatically excluded from being able to do extra work...if they have a large support system then they very well could be eligible for those extra hours. I also don't think that someone should be looked down upon because they do their job and aren't able to work OT. If I put in my time and get my work done when i'm on the clock then BFD that I can't pull in OT for someone else! Whether I have kids or not I value my time and maybe I got something else to do, SO WHAT I don't want to pull in OT every week or day! I agree that OT pay is compensation for OT work, but i do think that someone who works above and beyond should also benefit by more pay. However I do not think that should mean someone who does their job in the hours scheduled for them should not be eligible for pay increases just the same. If you do your job you should qualify for your service, being that you are doing an excellent job...simply showing up isn't enough in my book...quality of work speaks volumes to me!

I think men, like someone else said, are looked at as having responsibilities that make them work even when they don't want to. Dad will be much less likely to call in hungover then single Joe over there! With that, Dad generally isn't going to be calling in because his kids are sick either! That's what Mom is for! So I wonder if single dad who has full custody is looked at like working mom?

Shavaune - posted on 04/09/2010

There are equal rights laws however it would be pretty hard to prove that someone didn't hire you or give you a raise just because you had kids. They can easily say that someone else was just more qualified or "right" for the job. Not to mention that a lot of companies can easily hire a team of lawyers to completely discredit you and that other employers probably wouldn't want to hire you after you've sued your previous employer.
I agree it has alot to do with you line of work. When I worked in hospitality they could of cared less if you had kids or not. But the moment I entered the "corporate" or business line of work it was a different story completely. I learned really fast to avoid telling them that I was a mother at interviews. They want people who can freely travel and work long hours on a salary.

Emma - posted on 04/09/2010

I think this also has a lot to do with what line of work you are in,
I don't think i would of worried about a woman being a mother if i was hiring for say an office job, or one of the other areas in the hospitality trade.
I have hired woman with kids even signal mothers but there kids where much older and they where often the woman where older than me... so at least i was never an ageist lol

Teresa - posted on 04/08/2010

I have no personal knowledge of what the article is talking about... yet, but as a single mother of 3 who will never receive child support and never be able to support us all w/out at least some assistance.... I'm screwed and more scared now then before I read this stuff.

Johnny - posted on 04/08/2010

Wow, just reading this I feel so lucky. My employer has been incredibly supportive, made it easy for me to work from home during my pregnancy when I was sick, to come back to work on a part-time only basis, to adjust my hours to fit our family's needs. Last week we even had a meeting to discuss the future of our department, and my boss told me that whenever I chose to come back full-time was fine. He was also joking about me having another baby, and when I said not for a while, he said, well, if you can you should try to work full-time for 4 months before going back to maternity leave because that way you'll be eligible for the top amount. My employer strives to create a family friendly environment and give strong support to it's employees. They find that it benefits them enormously to hire all people in all situations and treat them well, because they have ended up with strongly dedicated, very hard-working, and loyal employees. But I know that is not the case across the board. Out of the 10 women in our pre-natal class, 3 of them had their employers find "legitimate excuses" not to bring them back to work near the end of their mat leave. Canada does have fairly good laws, but some employers just don't want working moms on staff.

Kathy - posted on 04/08/2010

Don't you have an Equal Rights Commission, or a similar body to go to?

Shavaune - posted on 04/08/2010

I've lost out on a job interview the moment I said I had to arrange childcare. Interview was going great and she asked if I could start tomorrow. As soon as I mentioned I had a kid the look on her face was plainly obvious that it wasn't going to happen. That being said I would never lie about having a kid because if they are going to have that kind of an attitude about simply having a child, then how are they going to be if my child is sick or gets hurt? Nope, sorry don't want to work for your ass anyway.
A single woman should not get paid more than a working mother. I've been a manager and it always comes down to the bottom line. $$$$$! They will find any excuse to pay you less because that means they get to keep more for themselves. A raise is supposed to be based on job performance. If someone works overtime then pay them overtime or give them a bonus. When it comes to a promotion then you have to be able to put in the hours required so if you can't arrange that then maybe someone else should do the job.
That being said I've always had awesome employers. One of my jobs I managed a hotel in northern Alberta and my employer paid all my childcare expenses for me. It was a huge benefit for me and I worked my ass of there for at least 5 years (even though the job sucked!) He even helped me pay my first year of tuition when I quit and went to college and after I graduated he gave me a great reference:)

Amy - posted on 04/08/2010

I would never lie like that to get a job. I actually had a phone interview (for the place I'm currently working) where my son was whining in the background and it did not hold me back from getting the job. In fact my manager who hired me was proud of the fact that my husband was a stay at home dad as he felt strongly in having a parent stay at home to watch the kids (at least till they go to school).

I wouldn't be surprised if I would make less, but to be honest at the Job's I did I've gotten more work done than many of the others working. At my first Job, I got a promotion much faster than anyone else at the time because of my hard work. I actually "officially" got the promotion while I was on maternity leave.

I've only been working a few years so I haven't seen a lot yet, but I'm sure that it happens all the time.

LaCi - posted on 04/08/2010

I think it has less to do with a negative view of a mom's capabilities, more to do with reliability.

I do not agree: “The way society looks at mothers today is very similar to how society looked at women 50 years ago. Women then were thought to be less intelligent, less capable, and less effective in the workplace. Those who excelled in ‘a man’s world’ were considered cold and unnatural. Women themselves had been raised to share that view even if it didn’t seem right or fair. ”


Honestly, If I were hiring between a non-mother and a mother I would choose the non-mother. I can't even express how much I hated children being used as an excuse in the workplace. "oh I have to go, my kids school is shutting down early* *my kid is sick I can't make it in* *my babysitter cancelled on me* *school is on snowday* so on and so forth go a ridiculous seemingly endless amount of excuses. And it isn't necessarily their fault, and I'm also sure many of them were just lying to get out of work. It's just something thats easier to not deal with at all, so hiring the non-mother makes more sense.

It's terrible to judge based on motherhood, but with motherhood come those responsibilities that are going to interfere with your job. However, I do think the pay difference is absurd.

And I may not ever mention having children in a job interview again, because I don't want to lose out on a job because of it, but I understand their perspective on hiring very much. I know this isn't all mothers, and it doesn't apply to all mothers. But I do understand where employers are coming from.

Jocelyn - posted on 04/08/2010

Doesn't surprise me at all. I was at a job interview (my son would have been about a year old or so) It was going really well, we were "clicking", he had basically said that I was exactly what he was looking for. He then asked me how soon I could start, and I said I could start in two weeks, because I had to confirm my sons spot in daycare. He got this weird look on his face and rushed me out of that interview room so fast it was all a blur. I never even got a call back thanking me for coming in.
Since then, I won't outright LIE, but I try my hardest not to mention the fact that I have young kids. I don't think that it is right that a mom will get passed over for a raise, just because the childless girls can work longer hours, that's what overtime pay is for!

C. - posted on 04/08/2010

Good grief, Heather.. You've been busy with all these articles :)

Well let's see. If I thought I was being treated unfairly just b/c I have a child, I think I would send a complaint to the head of the company and if that did no good, probably a lawsuit. I think it's wrong to only give raises to single women who have no children. If someone is qualified for the job and doing terrifically at what they do- single or married men, single or married women, parents or not- Then they deserve to be recognized for the hard work they put into their career.

And no I wouldn't lie on a job application. If the people I am going to an interview with can't accept the fact that I have a family, then I don't want to work for them anyway.

Emma - posted on 04/08/2010

I would say i in years gone buy when hiring staff have been guilty of discrimination,

I would always hire a single woman with no kids over a woman with kids and i would of hired a married woman with kids over a signal mother, Sounds very bad i know no coming from a woman, but to be 100% honest im not sure if i would do differential now.

Bearing in mind when i was working i was in the hospitality industry and i worked on average 100+ hours a week.

I Stopped working when i found out i was pregnant as i knew i could not do my job to my standards any more. and i wanted to be a stay at home mom at least while my kids are young, i know that even if i re enter the work force i will not be going back into my previous profession, As i don't think i could do it with a family but that's just me.



Regarding hiring men i would say i would hire married men with family's over signal men without as this sounds bad the married guy with a family to support is going to be more reliable as he has dependants and responsibility's



I don't think signal parents should get paid more as its not the employers fault you are a signal parent.



Yes i do think that there is a motherhood penalty,

But being a Mommy i personally know that if i was working and i had to choose between something important for work or missing my kids school play i would be at the play so probably a good thing im lucky enough to be able to stay at home like i wanted too.