Vaccination Choices

Karen - posted on 10/09/2010

I have and I will vaccinate my child because 1. Why would I take risk the consequences of her getting a disease that are so much worse than the small risk associated with the vaccine? 2. There is no medical reason for her not to get it (i.e. compromised immunity) so why would I risk someone else who cannot get it from being infected by my child? 3. There are unvaccinated people in the world with whom she will come in contact - why would I risk her health? 4. I've seen the later effects firsthand of postpolio syndrome and seen the news footage from not only before the vaccine was developed in the US but also current situations in developing nations - since vaccines can prevent exactly that IMO it would be irresponsible and cruel to knowingly expose my child to those types of consequences. 5. If my unvaccinated child infected another person and caused illness, permanent damage, or death, I would have a hard time living with myself.

I can't force someone to vaccinate their child, all I ask is that you have the courtesy of informing me of that fact so I can make an informed decision about my child's health.

Angela - posted on 10/07/2010

surely if you have done the research you would know that gaining immunity naturally can be fatal whereas the vaccines are much much safer???... just saying....

Caitlin - posted on 10/03/2010

naturopaths are a crock IMO.. Natural therapies work for certain things, like a touch of menthol in the shower to unclog my nose when I have a cold.. That kind of thing, I don't need some hack telling me to eat ground up dirt because it will "make me healthier"..

Beck - posted on 10/02/2010

waste of money if you ask me

Stifler's - posted on 09/30/2010

Everyone is seeing a naturopath these days. As far as I can tell, all the people i know who are it hasn't done a damn thing for.

Beck - posted on 09/30/2010

I have not read the rest of the posts, there is too many for my small timeframe right now.

I don't believe in natural therapies for the diseases you need vaccinations for, I also could not live with myself if i caused harm to a child mine or someotne elses because I chose not to vaccinate and they became ill and seriously harmed because of it. We have vaccinations for a reason. Yes in Australis we get an immunisation bonus from the government if the children are up to date at certain ages but thats not why I vaccinate, (that money hyas gone straight towards my childrens school fees) I vaccinate to protect my child.

I also ask this what if your child wants to travel to a lower economic country one day? You may have put added costs on them for vaccinations or even prevented them from travelling as the risk of them getting something is way too high to go. Why on earth would anyone put their childs health at risk like that?? Not just in the future but now when they are young....

Alison - posted on 09/30/2010

Sorry if I've already posted on this and forgot.



Is it a choice? Yes parents have the right to refuse preventative care for a child that is not even sick and it's unlikely that any court will ever infringe on that right. But this choice has the potential to affect others who are too young or medically exempt from getting vaccinated.



I can understand why some parents are not prepared to risk of causing their healthy child to get sick from the side effects of vaccinations, but I've seen a doccumentary about the effects of polio and I've known of children being left with health problems as a result of getting mumps.



I would rather take the risk of getting the shots and I'm glad my child isn't one of those who was exposed to these illnesses at a young age before he got them. I feel really sorry for parents of children who can't get the shots because of medical reasons. Their children are now exposed to an increased risk of these illnesses because more people are not vaccinating.

Rosie - posted on 09/30/2010

i can't imagine how those of you feel that can't get your children vaccinated because of allergies. lucas being hospitalized with the flu really freaked me out, and messed sooo many things up for him. he was so ill, just laying there majorly dehydrated (thanks to his diabetes insipidus as well, gah!!! ), he wouldn't eat, and lost 2 lbs. those of you who have heard me talk about my children know that they are VERY tiny to begin with. at that time lucas was almost 2, and weighed 18 lbs., he ended up weighing 16 lbs afterwards. he was born 9 lbs 5 oz. . he was throwing up cause his water intake was off (again his diabetes insipidus) which only added to his dehydration.
he was also supposed to have eye surgery the day after he was admitted to the hospital. so we had to reschedule that. for his surgery it was very important that they do it before age 2, otherwise it might not be as successful. rescheduling took it past his 2nd birthday which reaked me out as well.
all i know is that i hope my babies NEVER get the flu again. and i will do everything i can to make sure that they don't get it.

Caitlin - posted on 09/30/2010

Ya.. now i'm not thrilled about having to get the flu shot every year(and might not have to - i`ll talk with her doc, see what is suggested), but it's to protect her.

Chatty - posted on 09/30/2010

Yes, Caitlin - even though Roxanne's egg allergy isn't as severe as Kayla's, our doctor has advised us not to get it. After doing some research, I have to agree and we will be forgoing it in the future. If I feel she's at risk, we (me & my family and others who are around her daily) will get it to minimize her risks.

Caitlin - posted on 09/30/2010

Dana - I was away for a fwe days. We got the MMR as well, even though Kayla has a severe egg allergy, and she was fine. They observed her for a while after, decided there was nothing, and sent us off. I'm glad we had no issues with that one.

The flu vaccine on the other hand - that we will NOT be getting again. Too much egg in that one. They sent us for a special clinic at the childrens hospital allergy clinic for that vaccine, and she got it in 2 doses. After the first dose (10%) she was a little red aroudn the injection, but they said it was normal and gave her the other 90%. She got hives all over her body and was getting hoarse. She was on steroids and antihistamines for like 2 days after that one (and that was the H1N1 - i'm asthmatic and was pregnant at the time, and she is asthmatic, so we are both high risk) and the H1N1 vaccine was said to have only 1/3 of the egg protein of the regulat flushot, so that's not happening. I'm hoping she can avoid the flu beign so high risk - I dont' want her to be stuck in the hospital!

Kate CP - posted on 09/29/2010

Sally: Please read my post about how the immune system works.

Rosie - posted on 09/29/2010

or the other unvaccinated child around the corner...just because anti vaxxers don't seem to care about other peoples children doesn't mean i don't.

Sherri - posted on 09/29/2010

Or my hypothetical child that has a compromised immune system.

Chatty - posted on 09/29/2010

But they are a danger to my (hypothetical) baby who is too young to be immunized.

Sally - posted on 09/29/2010

Vaccines are NOT as great as they are cracked up to be. They have limited effectiveness and only last for a few years. The reason why we are having pertussis outbreaks is because parents who were told they were 'protected' by their childhood vaccinations are bringing it home to babies too little to vaccinate. Even the CDC admits that some of the vaccines are more dangerous than the diseases (they just don't publicize it) and most of the diseases we vaccinate against are much scarier to get as an adult--after your vaccine has worn off and no one told you it would.
My kids get some of the vaccines, but the more I research them, the fewer we get.
I started looking into it because I noticed that pro-vaccineers scream about how non-vacciners are killing us all while non-vacciners say 'this is why I chose this path, here are my sources, research it and make your own choice." If you truly believe that your vaccines protect you, why don't you want to be around non-vacced people. If your vaccines really work people without them are no danger to you.

Celeste - posted on 09/29/2010

It is a parent's right to choose. Be sure you know the facts; if your child is not vaccinated, the risks of contracting infectious disease is high. Additionally, the risk of spreading infectious disease to another child, who is particularly susceptible, or vulnerable is great. When you choose vaccination, you are supporting your community. Learn the facts, respect the facts. Keep your child and a neighbor healthy.

Jodi - posted on 09/28/2010

That must have changed Loureen, because I received Taylah's as soon as she had her 12 month immunisations. Maybe they were finding too many people were skipping out on the 4 year old ones, so they changed it accordingly?

Stifler's - posted on 09/28/2010

but it's free. you make an app at allied health and go to the hospital and they don't make you pay or anything no matter what your income is.

Charlie - posted on 09/28/2010

Actually Emma in Australia those who vaccinate get paid reguardless of income .

Maternity Immunisation Allowance is a non-taxable payment that is generally paid in 2 separate amounts of $125.50 each:

* the 1st amount is paid for children who meet the immunisation requirements between 18 and 24 months of age, and
* the 2nd amount is paid for children who meet the immunisation requirements between 4 and 5 years of age.

Kate CP - posted on 09/28/2010

There are also no herbal/alternative therapies that work reliably for:
Mumps
Tetanus
Diphtheria
Hepatitis

But hey...you could always give it a try, right?

Stifler's - posted on 09/28/2010

Oops I never even knew we had one! Vaccinations are free here so I just get them, except the flu ones.

Krista - posted on 09/28/2010

Are there natural therapies for all the diseases vaccinations prevent? Just curious

You mean like polio?

Like meningitis?

No.

Charlie - posted on 09/28/2010

Emma in Australia the chicken pox vaccine is given at 18 months .

Toni - posted on 09/28/2010

I know the article was written in 2009 but it demonstrates some great points about the chicken pox vaccine and the effects of it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/articl...

Kate CP - posted on 09/28/2010

Every body responds to infectious disease differently. While you or I may have had a mild case of chicken pox as a child, another person may have had a very severe reaction to the virus and been very sick-even if it was only the first time they were infected. This is another example of how the immune system works: even "naturally acquired" immunity doesn't mean it will last for a life time. The only way to know for sure if you have an immunity to a virus or bacteria is to have a titer test done.

Stifler's - posted on 09/28/2010

Chicken pox isn't a big deal unless you get it the second time or when you're older. I don't think there is a vaccine for it here either.

Jennifer - posted on 09/28/2010

I'm agree with Toni on the chicken pox topic but that's because in the UK there isn't a chicken pox vaccine and because of that it doesn't seem like such a serious illness. I had chicken pox when I was a baby so I can't remember, but my husband had it when he was about 7 years old and yes whilst it was uncomfortable and itchy it wasn't life threatening. I guess chicken pox isn't seen as a big deal here really, slap some camomille lotion on and wait it out.

Johnny - posted on 09/27/2010

I think it is totally a parent's right to research available info to decide for themselves if vaccination is the right choice. Unfortunately, I think most go into it with a pre-conceived notion and manage to find the data that supports their original viewpoint. So I'm not really sure that it means very much.

I did quite a bit of research. And found it very contradictory and that there were a great many people pushing some strongly held agendas, on both sides. So I talked to my niece's boyfriend, who works doing research in this field, but not for a private corporation or government, but for a non-profit medical charity. After lengthy discussions and reading a great deal of research that he helped me find, I decided to vaccinate for everything except chicken pox. He feels that the chicken pox vaccine is yet unproven and believes that it is possible, that given the nature of the illness and it's potential for later in life reappearance, that it is best for people to develop a natural immunity. He is not certain about this, there is not enough evidence because the vaccine is relatively new. It may work fine as long as people get the booster shots later, but if they don't, there is some evidence that only having the shot may actually increase the shingles risk.

That being said, if my daughter does not get the chicken pox by grade 6/7, I will get her the shot. Once they are older than about 12, the severity of the illness is statistically worse.

I do worry about the current vaccine schedules. There are too many public health officials who are looking to save time & money in getting this done quickly, with the fewest visits. There is not strong evidence either way, but it is possible that the rapid injection of vaccines may increase immune & allergy issues.

One thing that really does bother me in these debates is when people speak like what they know about the issue is a certainty. Even the best scientists don't know for certain how these things are going to effect us in the long-run, and sometimes even in the here & now. That's why there is so much debate, the facts are not all in yet. Although I'm pretty sure there is fairly strong evidence that children don't develop natural immunities to whooping cough without suffering greatly and/or dying first.

Stifler's - posted on 09/27/2010

Are there natural therapies for all the diseases vaccinations prevent? Just curious.

Charlene - posted on 09/27/2010

I had chicken pox when I was 2 or 3 and according to my relatives and the pictures they took, I had it bad. Under my eyelids, in my nostrils and ears, even down my throat. I was hospitalized and had a dangerously high fever that wouldn't break. I almost died from it, so darn skippy my daughter gets this vaccine.
I'm still not sure about the Flu vaccine though, because I have had a couple severe reactions from it, so it's something that will be discussed with our doctor first.

Sarah - posted on 09/27/2010

One of my best friends had a horrible experience with the chickenpox when she was little. She contracted them when she was an infant & they were everywhere...including her ears. Unfortunately she is deaf in her left ear because of it. She's also had shingles as well & she is only 26. Anyway, I know this is just one extreme case, but chickenpox does have the potential to be serious.

Kate CP - posted on 09/27/2010

Toni: Oh, okay. :)

Rosie - posted on 09/27/2010

having had the chickenpox myself as a child- twice, i don't advise that people forgo the vaccination. it is one of the most horrifying illnesses i've ever had the pleasure of having. my sister got it once, and hers was worse than mine. she had pox down her throat, on her eyelids-everywhere. it confuses me that people don't vaccinate for the chicken pox in the UK. knowing what i know about the chicken pox from EVERYBODY that had it when they were younger had it horrible and doesn't wish that on anybody.
and yes we get flu shots. we get them all every year. this year they better give my 3 year old the flu shot or i will go ballistic!! he couldn't get one because he was under 3, and not a priority. he had gotten the flu the march before, and had to be hospitalized. i HATE the guidelines that make it so ceratain people get shots and certain times. i want to protect my babies and myself from these illnesses, they are not fun at all.

Toni - posted on 09/27/2010

Yes I know thanks Kate, I completely wrote that wrong, I was looking at it thinking something wasn't right but I couldn't put my finger on it - I do not know where that junk came from, it must be time for bed, here is what I meant to say:

The UK does not routinely offer the chicken pox vaccination due to the increased risk of adults who have had chicken pox as a child contracting shingles in later life, due to them not being exposed occasionally to the chicken pox virus (for example by their children), as exposure acts as an immunity booster.

Kate CP - posted on 09/27/2010

Uhh, Toni...you only get Shingles as an adult if you had the chicken pox as a child.

Toni - posted on 09/27/2010

Yes we will have to agree to disagree, I will always feel that parents who just choose not to vaccinate are irresponsible, I am sorry if you do not like the use of that word but that is how I feel, just to clarify I do not feel that makes them bad parents, but they are socially irresponsible. There has been a noted increase in illnesses such as Rubella in the UK, US and Aus, which is attributed in the main to more people choosing not to have vaccinations. Yes people have the right to research vaccinations and even to choose to alter the schedule but unless there are actual medical reasons as to why the children should not have the vaccination then they should have them. The none vaccinated are not minimising the risks of catching or transmitting diseases because if they were they would be vaccinated that is the best way to minimise risks.

The reason the Uk does not routinely offer the chicken pox vaccination is due to the increased risk of adults contracting Shingles due to them not having chicken pox as children, as people who have had chicken pox as a child are less likely to have shingles as an adult, and as shingles is far worse than chicken pox it was decided that it would be best for children to not be immunised against it. The people in the US and Aus are not irresponsible for not getting the chicken pox vaccintaion it is not needed.

Now it is irresponsible to have an injection that has not been fully tested just because your doctor tells you to, that I would not advise. The difference between that injection and the ones that are routinely offered are the MMR, whooping cough etc have all been thoroughly tested and shown to be safe for use with the general public.

I do think it is good to research and be knowledgeable but from my research vaccinations are the responsible course of action.

Fiona - posted on 09/27/2010

And I suppose, Toni that this is where we will just have to disagree. I don't like the use of the word 'irresponsible' in regards to people who have done adequate research and made informed decisions for themselves and their families. I do think it is irresponsible when someone makes any health decision without appropriate information and applying that information to their own personal circumstances, regardless of what their choice eventually is. Social responsibility and personal responsibility are things that every person constantly has to balance and especially parents. Many parents who have chosen to not vaccinate are well aware of the risks involved in their choice and act responsibly to manage and minimise those risks for their children as well as for their community, that to me IS responsible.



I am aware that the chicken pox vaccine is not routinely offered in the UK, but it is routinely offered in Australia and the US, yet many people forgo this, preferring their child contract the disease and develop natural immunity. As the vaccine is routinely offered in these countries, do you then feel that these parents are being irresponsible in their choices, or do you feel that they should be afforded the same right to assess and manage the risk of chicken pox to their child and larger society as parents from the UK are or do you maybe feel that their country knows something more about the risks of chicken pox thereby negating the parents role in making that decision or that maybe your country is irresponsible in not making the vaccine routinely available to the population there? There are many factors to consider in the case of that particular vaccine.



The H1N1 vaccine in combination with the fluvax was routinely offered here in Australia to children in particular states and resulted in the hospitalisation of many children for febrile convulsions and other adverse reactions and has been implicated in a few deaths of some of those children. The combination vaccine was released without adequate testing, without waiting for approval from the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration), with ingredients in knwn potentially harmful quantities to children, rushed out to be distributed in time for the flu season. The parents of the children who got it trusted their government and their doctors and the pharmaceutical manufacturers, for the very reasons you mention... if it is made routine that suggests that they are necessary or needed for the majority. That trust and resulting decisions had major implications for the children who were hospitalised and will have ongoing implications for the vaccine schedule as a whole.



I think it is naive to assume that vaccine schedules, pharmaceutical companies, doctors and governments have only our best interests at heart, I am not so cynical to believe that there is a great vaccine conspiracy or a general wish to cause harm, but I do think that real social responsibility comes from a questioning and fully informed public that allows and encourages parents (in fact ALL people) the right to make informed decisions for their personal circumstances.

Toni - posted on 09/27/2010

Fiona, the chicken pox vaccination is not offered in the UK, so we don't vaccinate against it. Also the flu shots are offered to a select number of people who are considered at risk, moms and babies are not offered these vaccines (unless they fall into an at risk category), this year pregnant women are being offered the H1N1 shot as a precaution.

As the chicken pox vaccination and the flu shots are not routine it suggests to me they are not neccesary, or really needed for the vast majority. It is completely irresponsible not to vaccinate children who have no medical reasons not to be vaccinated because when there is a lull in vaccinations, for example my generation and the final MMR vaccination, there are implications for society, in 2005 there were over 43,000 cases of mumps in the UK due to the lack of vaccinations in young adults during the 90's (due to shortages). I would not advocate anybody adding to health issues in society by electing not to vaccinate their children.

Fiona - posted on 09/27/2010

I am curious at how many people here are saying that people who don't vaccinate are irresponsible because they are putting others at risk, especially young babies who are unable to be vaccinated themselves yet and then go on to say that they have opted out of certain vaccines for their children. Yes, Dana (and others) have children who have medical reasons for opting out of flu shots, but for others who choose to let their child build a natural immunity to flu, or chose not to get H1N1 or chicken pox vaccines, surely you are aware that the flu, chicken pox etc are also dangerous, potentially fatal for very small babies, immunocompromised people, the elderly, pregnant women etc. Yet you feel perfectly comfortable taking what you feel is a minimised and controlled risk with others health as a result of your own informed decisions regarding these vaccines and then vilify other parents who take similar risks only with other vaccines.

Also there is always a lot of misinformation on these posts from both sides of the debate. For example, it is not just unvaccinated or incompletely vaccinated people who are able to carry and transmit pertussis without displaying symptoms, it is also possible for fully vaccinated people to contract and therefore transmit pertussis.

As much as the OP may be simplified and even flawed in conveying a point, essentially it is correct, it is every parent's right and responsibility to research and make informed decisions regarding their choices for vaccination. What is more important is that discussions like this should be open and non-judgemental and involve the sharing of correct and diverse information so that they are contributing to the knowledge pool rather than just attacking and vilifying people for their choices.

Teresa - posted on 09/27/2010

So if we wash our eggs before we crack them we won't get sick?

Chatty - posted on 09/27/2010

Haha! I saw that episode too!

?? - posted on 09/27/2010

I had a severe reaction to the whooping cough vaccine when I was a child. So I've never been able to get that vaccination. Gabriel was fine with all of his.


Also, weird fact that I learned on Ace of Cakes - and I didn't know this... did you know that salmonella on eggs is actually on the OUTSIDE of the eggshell and not IN the egg? I always thought it was everywhere on the egg, not just the outside :\

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

Haha. And no he wasn't allergic to eggs.

Chatty - posted on 09/27/2010

Ok, we're posting at the same damn time...lmao. STOP IT!

Chatty - posted on 09/27/2010

So you had Ethan tested? He obviously wasn't allergic if her got his jabs then?!!!

While Roxanne is severely allergic to peanuts, her allergy to eggs and soy aren't as severe. After doing much research we decided to get her her shots but monitored her carefully. Perhaps, Dana, if Ethan/Roxanne had been severely (anaphylactic) allergic to eggs then avoiding the MMR might be recommended.

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

I didn't see that post but, I did just find this
MMR Vaccine Ingredients
Under the description we learn that the MMR is made in a medium using chick embryo cell culture. That means the disease is cultivated in eggs. Another potentially allergenic ingredient is gelatin. Anyone with an egg or gelatin allergy will want to avoid having this injected into their blood stream.
I suppose since it's cultivated in eggs and doesn't actually have eggs in it it's deemed to be okay then. Now if it were cultivated in a peanut shell we'd be having a whole different discussion. lol

Chatty - posted on 09/27/2010

Question: My Child is Allergic to Eggs. Can She Get the MMR Vaccine?



Answer: Usually. The MMR (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) vaccine was previously not given to children with egg allergies, or was given in divided amounts over a period of time with close monitoring for reactions. Recently, it has been determined that the MMR vaccine does not contain significant amounts of egg protein, and can be safely given to children with true allergy to eggs. It is recommended that these children be monitored for an allergic reaction in the doctor’s office for up to 90 minutes after the vaccine is given, however. "



I don't know if you saw my above post but Roxanne has had all of her shots, minus the flu and she's done fine. No reactions at all to the MMR.

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

Maybe my doctor was wrong... :|

Dana - posted on 09/27/2010

I'm pretty sure there is egg in the MMR shot and chicken pox. I had to get Ethan tested for an egg allergy before both shots because of the fact that egg is in them.