Very touchy subject- please be nice

Becca - posted on 12/10/2010

I have decided this is enough. I really think this convo has totally gotten of track. I do understand that this is a debate forum but I do not think that you need to use language that is going to tear someone down, and debate is not for you to insult people.

Nikki - posted on 12/10/2010

I feel physically ill reading some of this crap. Each to their own I suppose.

I have to laugh at the comment of Loureen being brainwashed, if there was one person on CoM I had to name that would be the least likely to be brainwashed it would be Loureen.

Meghan - posted on 12/10/2010

I can confirm that Toni and I are not the same person. Sorry. I just deleted a big long response to yours. I realized it is not worth my time. Wendy, good luck to you and yours.

Anika - posted on 12/10/2010

Well, I'd say someone has been brainwashed here but I don't think it was Loureen...

And Wendy, did you 'realise' that not everyone on CoM is American and that 'realise' is the correct British spelling?

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

Loureen, I don't think there is any risk of you being groomed...you are far to strong to allow that

Amy - posted on 12/10/2010

My 18 month old did not understand time outs. He kept running toward the fireplace - BAD. When he started, I swatted his bottom. He soon associated ouch with fireplace and now goes nowhere near it. I never spanked my children until they were over a year old. I think both were about 15/16 when they got their first. Before that, redirection works well and they cannot cognitively reason "why" not to do something. Spanking should never be done in anger, with anything but your hand [my mom used a switch! - but i don't feel like i was abused. lol. I deserved it!], and not more than two times. Just my rules. It needs to be about correcting poor behavior. But, what makes spankings few and far between here is anticipating what could go wrong in a situation and avoiding what will cause a problem. Some kids time outs work. Mine....I have to switch up the consequence. My daughter - 4 - thinks a spanking is quick, done and totally worth sneaking a cupcake or hitting her brother to get what she wants. So one time we take away toys, another no dessert, sometimes a spanking, but the punishment fits the crime. Small infractions are just a "no, not okay.....oh, sorry, buddy...hug" bigger ones sent to room or things taken away. When my now 20 month old hopped on our old dog, I spanked him and told him no, you hurt the doggie. I'd rather spank him and let him know it's wrong and not to do it again than just keep saying "no" until i'm blue in the face and the dog bites him or something. That drives me nuts when moms go "no, no, no, no. honey, come on now, mommy said no..." HELL NO. My daughter knows that when I say no, it's final and she does not ask again!

Charlie - posted on 12/10/2010

I show promise ?

eeek I feel like Im being groomed .

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

Wendy, do you honestly feel that it is appropriate to discipline your child for one offence twice? By you offering immediate correction, followed by their fathers correction when he returns from work.

What do you feel is appropriate immediate correction for you to use in relation to your boys, I ask because I am guessing what I would use will be different as we seem to be incredibly different women. It may be that what I would deem as disciplne you would not.

Wendy - posted on 12/10/2010

Toni-
If I discipline my boys without involving Dad, he trusts my judgment to know that I'm making the right call. I may call him at his office to discuss it before hand, and other times that may not be feasible. Of course though, the questions you ask will have different answers depending on the situation. Here's one scenario for you:

My oldest son did something that I felt warranted harsher punishment than mere correction or redirection. I still did those things in this incident, if for nothing more than to bring immediate attention to the situation at hand, but I will explained to him that I would discuss what happened to Dad and at that point it would be up do Dad to administer further punishment if he sees fit. I believe very strongly in a patriarchal household. A mother can stress dissapointment and administer punishment, but there is nothing more "re-directing" than "that look" that Dad gives...certainly in my husband's case. There is something inheritly more final about having to answer to Dad. My husband is 6'4", 245 pounds, a chest you could land a 747 on, with eyes that stare through your soul. It is far more potent and appropriate for him to dish out higher-level discipline. He will take the boy aside, talk to him calmly, but firmly and sometimes that is all that happens. Other times, if my son still refuses to admit he was wrong, Dad will implore spanking. He allows our sons to stop him at any point so they can state their case further. But in doing that, they are expected to at least acknowledge why they are getting spanked and/or why Mom and Dad are upset (only once has my oldest been defiant enough to not do this). Usually he will take a few spankings, apologize and explain how (this is a must before leaving the room) what he did went against the rules. If my husband doesn't feel the "crime" warrants spanking, but more than just talking, he may suggest a writing assignment. It just depends on the situation.

There have also been times when I thought surely a spanking would be appropriate and even though I make that plea to my husband, he may not agree. But in our relationship I agree that he has last say because I am confident he is making the best choice possible.

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

Dana, I've been a mod since October, I thought I'd gone mad for a second and posted it in the wrong community, I had to double check myself lol. *waves right back at ya*

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

"Any time one of our boys does something that both my husband and I feel warrant a long talking-to and spanking, he takes care of it. Otherwise, if I am alone with the boys (as is the case often because I’m a SAHM) I implore similar tactics, but without the physical punishment."

Wendy, if you are able to discipline your sons without using physical punishment during the day (or when your husband isn't there) why do you feel it is necessary to use spanking when your husband disciplines them? I'm assuming your boys show you respect and obey you without you using this force your husband deems necessary, so why can he not make use of the same methods you use?

One final question, when your boys do something you deem as needing a spanking do you just not discipline them until their father comes home? Or do you discipline them twice, effectively?

Nikkole - posted on 12/10/2010

@Wendy i see no problem in your relationship if YOUR happy with it thats non of my business its just a little strange to me!! I don't feel that my husband should be able to discipline me when he feels i do something wrong because my husband is awesome but he sometimes does things wrong, or makes stupid mistakes we talk about that stuff and learn from it thats as far as it will ever go! But good for you about being open and honest about your marriage,you sound very proud of what you and your husband have!! While most women who dont agree they will say things you dont like or agree with its just a strange concept for most but like i said before if it works for you then its your life and i hope you continue to be happy :)

Chatty - posted on 12/10/2010

Toni, since when are you a mod? Cool! Hi! *waves*

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

***Mod Warning***

OK ladies lets get this thread back onto topic. If you wish to continue the Taken in Hand topic feel free to start a new thread. Thanks for your co-operation.

Chatty - posted on 12/10/2010

Why do you refuse to display a picture?

Toni - posted on 12/10/2010

Wendy from what I have read we have all understood your post, I am failing to see where anyone even suggests that your children watch your hubby spanking you, suggesting that him spanking you is damaging to them doesn't mean they have to physically watch it. The way your relationship is does affect your children and hence why it will be damaging to them. However, if you are happy with your situation then it has nothing to do with me.



Wendy, do you ever discipline your sons or is it just your husband? Reading your post it seems as though your husband is the sole disciplinarian, and I wondered what you do when he is not around, do you give them the 'there'll be trouble when your dad gets home' or do you have methods which you use?

Nikkole - posted on 12/09/2010

Ive commented on this subject before on another thread! I was spanked as a child and I thought nothing of it till i joinged COM's and i spanked my son who will be 3 this month! I think some of my issues with trusting people come from being spanked i wasn't a bad kid i didnt do THAT much i mean i had a smart mouth sometimes but very rarely! I remember one time i was at a boys house down the street i was 13 or 14 there were a lot of other people there including my best friend we walked up there to visit them adn hang well one of the boys (my husband now) wanted to show us this house his mom wanted to buy so we jumped in the care went up the road about 2 miles then straight back well my mom saw me riding in the car came down to there house and SMACKED me in the back of the head and walked me home smacking me another 2 or 3 times it was the MOST embarassing thing in the world! But me not trusting people dosent come all from spankings i was molested when i was 5 by our next door neighbor so that was one reason to! But bakc to spankings my mom growing up alwasy told us if we get into a fight at school WE BETTER NOT LOOSE or we would get into trouble so i fought once in high school i won my mom bought me ice cream i thought that was odd :/ but she was such a pro spanker she still smacks my 17yr old sister sometimes! But i have stopped spanking my son because i dont want him to resent me or be embarrassed by me smacking him i love him to much!! At wendy that is CRAZY my husband is our teacher,father,husband,and all that yours is but he dosent spank me (unless were having fun LMAO) But if he ever did i would think he went crazy in the head your husband shouldn't be your discipliner your a grown women but nothing ANYONE says on here is going to change your mind so you have fun with being spanked!!!!!

Meghan - posted on 12/09/2010

ok...did enough googling..I was right. While the actual idea of the this form of control (which is what it is) seems to be a 50/50 thing I can understand how some woman would take it and run with it and set the rest of us back hundreds of years. If it is what it claims to be...I don't think allowing your husband to spank you because he is the "teacher" and "provider" of the relationship/family is by any means the intention.

*Edit* I stand corrected, apparently being spanked/psychically corrected can be part of the process. But I do stand by my original statement that this is totally beyond my comfort level0 but to each their own I suppose

Chatty - posted on 12/09/2010

Nelly too!

Chatty - posted on 12/09/2010

Wendy, get a picture!

Charlie - posted on 12/09/2010

Is it a religious thing ?

Meghan - posted on 12/09/2010

I am off to google. This taken in hand relationship stuff sounds pretty odd and I need to learn more before I run my mouth

Jessica - posted on 12/09/2010

My parents did with me and my sisters and we turned out alright =)

Nelly - posted on 12/09/2010

I'm glad that you are in such a happy relationship. I also agree with you about Taken in Hand Relationships I'm also in one but my husband does not spank me or our children, neither of us believe with spanking

Charlie - posted on 12/09/2010

No human has the right to impose themselves on another persons body in an aggressive manner without consent , It's that simple .

Nikki - posted on 12/09/2010

Spanking is NOT a discipline tool! What does it teach? if you do something wrong mummy is going to hurt you? It's ok for people to hurt you? I am big you are small, you have no rights or autonomy? Not lessons I wish for my daughter to learn.

Anika - posted on 12/09/2010

Smacking/spanking does teach children. It teaches them to use force over weaken people. It doesn't teach you to do the right thing because it is right. You yourself Sherri said you do things because of fear of the punishment not because its right or safe.

Anika - posted on 12/09/2010

That's the thing, you speak of children's rights, we speak of human rights. Why must they be separate things?

Sherri - posted on 12/09/2010

So can spankings if done correctly Meghan they are used just as much as a teaching tool as time outs, groundings etc.

Meghan - posted on 12/09/2010

How about you ask your kids if they like their bodies being disrespected? Of course someone will come back and say kids don't like time outs or groundings blah blah blah...but the difference is those methods can actually TEACH something where as spankings really just don't...oh right IMO

Sherri - posted on 12/09/2010

Spanking is not an infringement on children's rights though that is where prospankers vs. antispankers will always disagree.

Charlie - posted on 12/09/2010

Look as an adult you have every right to CHOOSE to live life the way you want , you have allowed your husband to infringe on your rights and that is fine but I do not believe it is ok to push a way of life onto children that steps over their rights and puts them in the middle of a life lived in an aggressive nature .

Again , your rights end where theirs begins .

Anika - posted on 12/09/2010

I didn't realise my laptop had a time travel application to the 1800s....

Barb - posted on 12/09/2010

Wendy, i did read your post and i comprehended it rather well. Not sure if you did mine, i don't believe there were any catty remarks in it.

Your "taken in hand" relationship with your spouse is consensual and that's cool with me. However you wish to roll more power to you. But spanking your children is NOT consensual with them and that is not cool.

Meghan - posted on 12/09/2010

See, she's FINE!!!!

Charlie - posted on 12/09/2010

*gag*

Wendy - posted on 12/09/2010

It appears that none of you thoroughly read my post, let alone understood it. I'm not here to defend my marriage/family, so as much as you all want to hurl catty quips to self-aggrandize yourselves, I'm sure you can find someone else to be the brunt of it. Women like you always do.



It is easy for people to read something at face value and make judgments and spew out the usual modernist rhetoric. However, you put words in my previous post which were clearly not in it it, when you assumed that my husband and I are anything but private when there are matters between us to handle. My sons do not "watch". Ugh. Taken in Hand relationships are about consent. It is a choice two adults make together. My sons will later choose whatever relationships they want to have because it is what they want.



I'm clearly not going to enlighten anyone here to the fact that I am not abused or a "victim", doormat, etc. Domestic Discpline/Taken in Hand relationships are very common and the truth is that women who choose to be in male-led relationships do so out of their OWN needs. Subsequently, they are happy, liberated and fulfilled. I'm sure you are scoffing at the very notion of it, but if you read up on Taken in Hand relationships you will find nothing but love, admiration and consent from both parties. The fact that my husband spanks me as he sees fit is MY choice and it is completely separate from how he disciplines our sons.



The furthest thing from my mind is "seeking help" from any of you because my marriage is strong, happy and fulfilling. I'm the luckiest woman in the world to have a man loves me and our kids enough to be our provider, protector, authoritarian and teacher. You should all be so lucky to have the same, in whatever type of relationship you choose to be in.

Charlie - posted on 12/08/2010

Look she is not being a victim if she not only condones the abuse but continues to pass it on .....
But I do not think it is funny at all , I think it is F'd up .

Chatty - posted on 12/08/2010

Tisk, tisk...

Jaime - posted on 12/08/2010

Aw...look ladies, a slap on the wrist for being mean to Wendy...for shame!

Ease up Becca...if Wendy needs our help and support, THIS is not the way to get it. From what I read, she accepts that her husband is the authority figure in their home and she's not looking to change it. Also...since this is a debate community, I should think by now we would all be familiar with sarcasm...and when the shoe fits, we kick each other in the ass from time to time. It's how we roll.

Brittany - posted on 12/08/2010

I have spanked, however it has always been over a diaper and only when my daughter is doing something dangerous. For instance she found an outlet and was getting ready to put her finger in it. I picked her up gave her quick swat on the butt and told her "no that is dangerous"; and then distracted her with some toys while I covered the outlet.

I have never once hit in anger and never will, I have spanked her maybe twice ever.

I believe that a child should never remember being spanked as they get older, and that it should always be done over clothing and a diaper. It should be used as a way to get the child's attention and to make them realize that they don't like it; children aren't stupid they can figure out that "If I do this, this will happen".

I believe that all disapline comes down to personality of both the parents and the child.

I realize that a lot of people see it as abuse, but the fact of the matter is that emotional abuse is a lot more common, is extremely detrimental, and a lot harder to detect. I have met more children who say that their parents yell and ground them for stupid reasons; than ones who say they are spanked or were spanked.

Meghan - posted on 12/08/2010

If that is the case Becca, I will full heartily recant my statement and apologize until the cows come home.
I have been through abuse and I have had friends that have gone through it...I am in no way as insensitive as you think I may be (and neither are the other ladies) This is a public forum that unfortunately does often get people who do that sort of thing.

Becca - posted on 12/08/2010

Ok ladies, seriously! If she is being "spanked" by her husband, and it is abuse don't you think support and not being torn down would be a little more helpful. I can no believe some of the things I am reading.
I have a friend who just had a horrible abusive situation happen with her boyfriend and she was afraid to tell me because she thought I would respond like you ladies. (I did not) I wanted to support her and help not make her feel bad, like it's her fault.

It makes me sick that you all are finding that so funny!

Amanda - posted on 12/08/2010

I am not going to say I don't think spanking is right but I don't think it's wrong either.

I am not one for spanking unless my child is putting themselves or someone else in danger. Than yes I'll pop the bottom once quickly. I don't think that's wrong. I've gone from NO to spanking to maybe in certain situations. My fiance and I use it as a last resort, and it's only once on the bottom. If you are going to do it more than that don't even do it at all. You don't want to leave a mark. That's abuse. And, that's why I think it's such a BIG topic.
But I haveta agree that it's really not good unless you are making a serious point and only doing it when it's absolutley necassary to prove a point. Ex- running in the street. Not listening in a busy store. Taking things from a store or someones house. Touching a hot stove after numerous warnings. Back talking constantly after every other thing you do is not effective. Because you do it to them one of those times I bet they won't ever do that again! :) But my opinion only!

Meghan - posted on 12/08/2010

LMFAO! I know I should prob be taking that post a little more seriously but C'mon. *Insert dirty joke here*

Chatty - posted on 12/08/2010

Haha! I saw her comment yesterday but I couldn't respond. I doubt she's going to be back, ladies.



P.S. I HATE HATE HATE it when people don't have profile pics. I have a hard time taking them seriously and pretty much assume it's a bunk profile.

Toni - posted on 12/08/2010

Wow Wendy I am gobsmacked by your post. First up spanking doesn't make teenagers less lippy, I was spanked and I was incredibly lippyand often disrespectful as a teen, I think it depends who you are and your personality rather than the discipline used against you.

Secondly, it is not OK for your husband to hit you in a disciplinary manner, in a sexual manner that is fine. It is illegal for your husband to think you have done something wrong so to hit you for you to learn. That is abuse and is not a good example to your kids, do you want them to think it is ok to hit their wives when they do something wrong? I would be horrified if my son ever even raises his hand to his gf/ wife/ partner because it is not right and will mean I have done something wrong raising him! Please look at your stuation with fresh eyes, people in abusive relationships often make excuses or claim to have needed the punishment that is not so and is truely damaging to you and your children.

Barb - posted on 12/08/2010

On subject, btw, i was spanked, i did spank, and i feel by this day and age we should be educated enough to know that it is not only the method of the discipline that is effective, it is the consistency and follow through. It must be these 3 items together as none of them are effective on their own.

I feel spanking its self is outdated, archaic, and inappropriate. We are suppose to be smarter than that.

Barb - posted on 12/08/2010

Wait a minute ladies, did you not read Wendy's post?

She was NOT spanked as a child, her childhood LACKED discipline and i'm betting structure as well. She isn't being spanked now because she was spanked as a child, just the opposite actually.

She is not seeing the difference between a disciplined structured environment and a controlled violent one.

Another difference is, she is an adult, she can consent to these spankings, the children can't.

Nelly - posted on 12/08/2010

We have 4 children ages 16,14,12, and 10 yrs old. We have never spanked our children. You are right when you say that you and your husband have to be on the same page.