What do you think of atheist

Tanya - posted on 06/16/2010 ( 114 moms have responded )

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Please be as brutally honest as you would like.
I found this study and wanted to share it:

Every single study that has ever looked at the issue has revealed massive amounts of bigotry and prejudice against atheists in America. The most recent data shows that atheists are more distrusted and despised than any other minority and that an atheist is the least likely person that Americans would vote for in a presidential election. It's not just that atheists are hated, though, but also that atheists seem to represent everything about modernity which Americans dislike or fear.

The most recent study was conducted by the University of Minnesota, which found that atheists ranked lower than "Muslims, recent immigrants, gays and lesbians and other minority groups in 'sharing their vision of American society.' Atheists are also the minority group most Americans are least willing to allow their children to marry." The results from two of the most important questions were:
This group does not at all agree with my vision of American society...

Atheist: 39.6%
Muslims: 26.3%
Homosexuals: 22.6%
Hispanics: 20%
Conservative Christians: 13.5%
Recent Immigrants: 12.5%
Jews: 7.6%

I would disapprove if my child wanted to marry a member of this group....

Atheist: 47.6%
http://atheism.about.com/od/atheistbigot...

Would you vote against an Atheist President?
Would you disapprove of you child marrying one?

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[deleted account]

this gave me a chuckle...



Top 10: Benefits of Atheism



1. Atheists earn higher incomes. (10-15% higher according to 1989 study)



2. Atheists stay married longer. (21% of Atheists have been divorced vs 29% Christians) -Barna Research Group 1999



3. Atheists are less likely to end up in jail. (Atheists comprise of 15% of US population, however only 1% of US Prison population are atheist)



4. Atheists are more likely to climb to the top of academia. (97% of the National Academy of Science Members are atheists. The 3,200 members includes more than 200 Noble Laureate recipients)



5. Atheists are less likely to succumb to the lure of authoritarian regimes, that promise miraculous and divine sent decrees. You think Hitler could have convinced a nation of Secularists/Atheists that slaughtering Jews was a sound idea?



6. Atheists live longer and happier according to a 2009 poll conducted by Erasmus University Rotterdam



7. Atheists are not required to hate anyone. There is no doctrine that promotes in/out thinking.



8. Atheists have higher morality developmental growth. Famous American psychologist Lawrence Kohlberg writes that at moral development’s highest levels, moral judgments must be justified on rational moral grounds rather than by appeal to the order of nature or to religious authority or revelation. While Freud suggested that religion served to undermine moral responsibility while promoting fanaticism. He contended that people who behave morally only out of fear of a supernatural penalty would be unlikely to respect and care for others from an altruistic perspective.



9. Atheists achieve deeper levels of critical thinking, and free thought.



10. Atheists are way better in the bedroom. (My own anecdotal experience)











www.GodHatesYou.net Author ‘God Hates You. Hate Him Back’

Krista - posted on 06/22/2010

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If i were an athiest id kill myself because after all, one random chance of a sperm meeting an egg and science creating a human, thats nothing special. right? so athiests are just advertising that they arent anything special they are just meaningless life forms no better then the grass or the beetle. president- well i think that athiests dont value human life as special so that could mean more war, abortions, euthanasia etc so i might steer away from that. as for my son marrying outside of our faith, i think he is already a smart boy and i know he will continue to learn and challenge life and im sure he will come to the conclusion that the belief that is proven most is the one to follow and therefore he wouldnt wish to marry anyone who isnt in agreement with him.

Wow. There is so much that is offensive about your statement that I don't even know where to begin.

For starters, if you were an atheist you'd kill yourself? That's just a really kind, Christian thing for you to say.

And atheists aren't saying that they aren't special. All of humanity is special -- the biology of how we reproduce and grow and develop is nothing short of astonishing. I really fail to see where you make the connection that not believing in a deity means thinking that humanity is insignificant or not special. Funny -- I seem to recall a lot of self-professed Christians like yourself who were quite eager for the U.S. to go to war with Iraq, and a lot of atheists and agnostics who were against the war. But if it makes you feel better to argue with that strawman that you created, then fill your boots.

And lastly, you think that the belief that is proven most is the one to follow? I hate to break it to you, but no matter how strong your beliefs, and no matter how much you might want to SEE proof, there is actually no concrete evidence of the existence of a God. Besides, the majority of the world population once believed that the Earth was flat -- obviously that wasn't the belief to follow now, was it?

And deists, NOT Christians, founded the United States. Big difference there.

Lady - posted on 06/18/2010

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Laura the reason I never got my last two children baptised is because of the words you have to say - you have to claim in church to believe in god and promise that you will bring your child up to follow his word.
I could not stand up in front of my family, the congregation and the minister and flat out lie - it was bad enough doing it with my first two when I had some serious doubts but by the time the next two were born I knew for certain that I did not believe. If I had gone through with it I felt I would be insulting the people who did believe and actually got their children baptised for the right reasons and I would only be doding for a party!! Hope that answers your question!

[deleted account]

I agree Krista.

On my end, it bothers me when people imply that I'm brainwashing my child. I also know in my heart I'm doing the best thing for my family.

So no matter which way you go there will be somebody who disapproves of your parenting. That goes for more than just religion.

[deleted account]

Sigh. I dont' mind if people disagree with me, even strongly but at least have the courage to stand for your convictions. Dont' be a coward, do a drive-by post then delete/vanish.

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[deleted account]

I am technically Christian because I grew up as one but rarely go to church. I wouldn't have a problem with an Atheist President because I don't think religion should play a part in decision making for a country anyways. I wouldn't care if my child/children married an Athiest either. There are always religious fanatics who think that they are right and everyone else is wrong and in the US they are trying to place too much importance on religion. You don't have to be a religious person to know the difference between right and wrong

Dusty - posted on 12/26/2011

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Honestly, I'm a Christian, born & raised. And not only do I have plenty of friends that are Atheists, I also have friends who are Satanists! We live in America, where EVERYONE has the right to freedom of religion. If someone considers themselves a Christian, yet tries to push their "beliefs" onto people, or worse, thinks badly of others because their beliefs differ, then they are not true Christians at all.

Karen - posted on 06/24/2010

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I think maybe I should be "masochist", too. I am thankful that I was taught to properly debate - I love to both read and present both sides and I ask pesky questions requiring people to actually defend their positions. But, I would never get personal about it, maybe that's why I enjoyed Debate team so much. The best person to debate religion was actually my Dominican Nun Aunt. Unfortunately she is now deceased but she would have a great time on these boards. Given that she spent 60+ years in the order while a childhood friend bet her she wouldn't last 6 months you wouldn't think she would enjoy debating religion, but she loved it, and was quite good at presenting both sides. So, I come by it honestly. But the one thing I was taught, and was shocked to learn that others weren't taught this (yes I was sheltered) is that people are people and are entitled to their path in life. I am not better than anyone else and can't presume to know that mine is the absolute right one. It's amazing because I have gotten back in touch with many of my HS classmates who have gone many paths (we went to a Catholic Girls' HS), but the one thing that I thank my school every day is we were taught respect for ourselves and others. We were expected to behave with respect and treat others likewise. Therefore, as long as someone shows me respect, I don't much care what religious path you do or don't follow. As long as I don't have to visit you in prison, pay for your attorney, or fight extradition for you, I'm cool. However, I do expect the same treatment that I accord you. I'm also glad we live in this century and not past ones - just finished reading "Innocent Traitor" by Alison Weir, glad I didn't live during Henry VIII and Bloody Mary's reigns, I wouldn't have a head by now... Glad the beheading is virtual...

Krista - posted on 06/24/2010

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So Jen, for your religion we'll mark you down as "masochist", then?

[deleted account]

LOL - Carol, I have. I have also been implored by Pagans, Muslims, all forms of Christians, the occasional Buddhist and agnostics. But then I've been wandering religious debates and discussions since 1998 when AOL actually had a good message board system.

Johnny - posted on 06/24/2010

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After the last religion debate I took part in on the Welcome page, I got 3 personal messages from people begging me to accept Christ into my life and 1from an atheist who couldn't understand how a logical person wouldn't completely reject the concept of god and suggested that I needed to do more thinking. There are a lot of crazies out there of every stripe (although I've never had a Buddhist attempt to sway me).

[deleted account]

I hope so but in my own experience, you'll meet more. You should see some of the stuff I've gotten over the years. :-)

Karen - posted on 06/24/2010

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Trust me Jen, I was very thankful that I was raised in a household that disagreed but didn't get personal about it. I also was thankful for my HS Debate training and Coaching training to not respond like I wanted to (my Mother's little voice to play nice was not so quiet in the back of my head). Yes my DH knew about the RC, heck we were married by a Bishop, but we've agreed that we can't change each other so we don't discuss religion (or Politics but that's another story...) Our only concern is we live good lives and raise a good kid, everything else will sort itself out at the end. Heck, maybe I'll just come back as a ghost and haunt him... I agree that some of the attacks I got were completely assinine so I just ended up walking away from the debate. I'm hoping that that's all the winners I run into for the next decade!

[deleted account]

Wow Karen, you ran into some winners.

IMO just because you're an atheist, doesn't mean you're rational and just because you're rational, doesn't mean you're an atheist.

I can understand wanting to raise your children into your own religion. I just don't agree with the religious aspect of it but I can't tell anyone how to raise their kids as long as the kids aren't being hurt or really brainwashed a la Jesus Camp.

Suggesting you not speak to your husband about your beliefs however is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard. Presumably your husband knew you were a Roman Catholic prior to your wedding. Will you both be discussing your views as you get older? That would just seem fair but again, it's your marriage.

Personally I think it's better to be equally yolked if you know what I mean but in the end, if a couple is compatible and loves each other with honor and equality -that's all that matters.

Karen - posted on 06/24/2010

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I don't have a problem with my child marrying anyone outside of our denomination - we're Roman Catholic, I married an atheist, 3 of the 5 of us siblings moved to other denominations, went to a Presbyterian College, and my devoutly Roman Catholic parents have accepted all of our spouses/paths with no issues. We have friends who are of all persuasions, in fact when 1 Niece had Cancer several years ago we accepted prayers to any and all deities, the more the merrier ;-) My only wish is for her to find someone who lives what they profess to believe and they live a good life, doing unto others. I have met many people who are adament in what they "believe" but you sure couldn't tell it from their behavior. Don't talk the talk, walk the walk.



The only issue I have had with atheists came on a thread in COM. I was reasonable, did not use any personal attacks, (I thought) supported my views, and allowed for the fact that (hopefully a long time from now) when I reach the end, my beliefs will either be validated or not. In other words, I could be wrong but won't know for sure until I reach the end. I also asked for someone to recommend some good reading materials so I could better understand their point of view. However, I was told that I was crazy for believing the way that I did and was also verbally attacked for my views. I have never encountered that type of treatment from any other group. So, if that is the way that atheists conduct themselves, then no, I don't want my child to be involved with someone from that group because it was rude and mean. I also was told that because I vowed to raise our child Catholic and we don't discuss DH's beliefs or lack thereof at this point with our 6 y.o. because she is too young to understand, that I was somehow showing him disrespect. All I am doing (and he can explain his viewpoint because I don't want to mess it up) is providing her with a foundation on which to make her own decision when she is old enough. We respect each other enough to not shove our views down each others throats - he doesn't keep me from going to Church, I don't force him to go, if he does it's his choice and usually as a family holiday thing but he doesn't really participate. However, I was told that to have DH go with me at any time or to even mention the words in his presence is disrespectful. So, I'm supposed to stifle my beliefs because somehow words will harm and that's respectful to me? I don't care what you call yourself, expecting someone to change who they are because you don't like (unless I'm a psychopath) it is not a group that I want to associate myself with. I'm teaching my child that not everyone believes the same way we do and that's OK, as long as they are not harming others that is their right. And all I want for my politicians to do is to represent their constituents, not change their views when it suits them to fullfill some political deal that they have made.

Megan - posted on 06/22/2010

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yes, this one looks like it was probably a very interesting one- I only read the first few. I will have to go back later and read through it. i guess I just don't understand why people base religion or lack there of as the most important thing about a person. Maybe way back in the stone ages that was the main thing that described a person- but today there is so much more to a person. I am Roman Catholic. I have never seen any proof or evidence of God- but I choose to believe, how the heck can i discriminate against someone for the SOLE fact that they choose to not believe? Like I said before- just because you're religious does not mean you are good, and just because you are atheist I do not believe you are smarter than anyone.

To whoever wrote the top ten things about atheists-

I can understand why they make more money- because they probably choose professions that are more science based (like DNA analysists and all that junk you see on NCIS). I would assume (I apologize if I am wrong) that most atheists enjoy that type of work a LOT so they would not mind spending forever in school. I would love to do something like that- buT I would not put in the time to get the degree. So that I can definitely see- the rest I didn't read through too closely, but I think most people really just don't know much about atheism. I know I don't know a lot about it, but I do know enough to know that they are just like every other group- some good some bad. I don't think atheists are any worse or any better than anyone else.

LaCi - posted on 06/22/2010

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Boy am I sorry I missed this thread for a while

Looks like there was all kinds of fun going on for a minute there lol

Megan - posted on 06/22/2010

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I guess I have never really thought about it. I am Roman Catholic- and it's not that I hate atheists- because I can't honestly say I HATE anyone. I mean, I dislike plenty of people- but I would not wish anything terrible on anyone. For me, it boils down to morals. There are plenty of terrible Catholics (Please- hold the priest jokes... lol) out there, just like there are plenty of good Catholics. Similarily- there are atheists that are good people with a good set of morals, and there are atheists that are not good. I believe that about every group of people, whether it be a race, culture, or religion. I would probably not vote for an atheist for president for the simple fact that they would probably be running as a democrat- and I am very Republican. As for my child marrying an atheist- I would have a tough time with it because I was raised in the church and want my son and my grandchildren some day to be raised the way I was, but if it was an atheist with a good set of morals and would accept my son for his religion- I would definitely get over it and be happy for him.

My only problem when it comes to atheists- and it's definitely not all- is when they consider people who do have a faith based religion stupid. Just like it bugs me when people that are religious call atheists stupid. Although we are a lot different, we are still all people- and the WONDERFUL thing about America is we have freedom of religion. As long as a president is willing to stand up and fight for our constitutional rights (which by the way are NOT being done right now... Sorry I could not resist) I would have a tough time being 100% against him/her- even if he was atheist. Religion should not affect the president's job and what his administration stands for. In my opinion, the president's religious beliefs simply set the moral standard that they practice at- and you can get your moral standards from more than just a religion, so no, I cannot say an atheist president would be bad- but they probably would not stand for my political beliefs. If an atheist candidate ran as a Republican- and was a good Republican (not a toe the line pretend to be Republican until I get elected then jump over and join the liberal agenda candidate) I would not care if he/she was atheist.

Isobel - posted on 06/22/2010

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maybe she's just sleeping in...cause God hasn't given her the strength to wake up yet :)

Krista - posted on 06/22/2010

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She's gone, AND she deleted her posts? Unbelievable. Why on earth would you join a debating group if you can't bear to hear dissenting opinions?

Isobel - posted on 06/22/2010

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Here`s the one from `what has god done for you' though...

Well if there isnt a God and there is no heaven after we die then why live?
Seriously ladies what gets you out of bed on a bad day?
Why would you try to be a good mother if it all was just a random chance for life?
Why care for your kid if you think they are being too naughty?
If there is no Afterlife then i assume you dont ever spend a second doing anything you dont like because after all this is all you get right?
It would be such a miserable life to think that I am worthless. Each person is just a random chance of science?
And dont talk like science is athiest. Science is a faith too and if you believe in one aspect of science then you might be believing right along with the christians.
If you are alive and breathing then God has done something for you.
If you dont believe in God then thats your own choice but i have to say i cant Imagine not wanting to have someone who loves you and would give up his life for you.
As for the questions about if he loves you then why does bad things happen- God made humans because he wanted to share the world with us. He made us perfect but offered us the choice to be bad. He didnt want to creat robots because unlike a dog, a robot will follow you everywhere, but when your dog obeys you it is so much sweeter because he chose to love you. same with God
He gave us the choice to obey or not. So he knows that those who do love him are all the sweeter to him. Now as for bad things. God set up the universe with rules. ie SCIENCE phhysics chemistry etc. He set up these laws of nature so we could grow and learn and develope as a society. He allows us to learn the way it works so we can better ourselves and stay in a learning way. Well if he allows us to choose bad, then there has to be bad for us to choose right? so if there is bad in the world then sometimes it happens to good people. He is fair and so just because you are one of the ones following him he isnt going to jus give you a free pass on life. THats what heaven is about but here on earth everyone gets crap just like the other one. After life the ones who chose him get the rewards but here on earth we are all suseptible to the same crap. cancer, diabetes, rape, drugs, fires, hurricanes, slavery, murder.
He wont micromanage us because many still dont want him in their lives, so he give us the hope of heaven but tells us that even with God on your side, you wont have a perfect life. I may die today but i have comfort knowing this isnt all i have. think about if you had children and you love them all the same and raised them as best you could. But when they all grew up two of them decided they didnt love you, they ssaid they hated you and didnt want you in their life, you called them but they didnt answer the phone, if you saw them on the street they would ignore you. you tried to show them that you loved them but they ignored it and claimed you didnt love them. they even started telling people they didnt have a mother. that you didnt exist. thats what is happening here too. As a mom you would take them back in a heartbeat if they ever changed their minds but you are not able to shove yourself into their hearts.
God is fair, and he loves all humans the same, he wont give special care to those who love him back because he loves us all the same. so for me my mom got cancer when she was 38 and died when she was 40 she left behind 4 kids ages 18, 15, 13, and 6. this isnt "fair" as she was a believer in God. but who says life is fair? we chose to sin and do bad things so this is how it is. She gets her reward for believing in heaven and that is how God rewards us. I have to live without her now and that feels unfair to me but i am still a sinful person and i have to remind myself that earth will never be perfect. the only thing i can hope for is that i could help someone else to see the truth in Gods plan and oin me in heaven one day.
bash away i know how much you all love to pick on the people who are certain of themselves. If you are mad at God then that only tells me that you do believe in him!

[deleted account]

Laura, are you actually suggesting that the Puritan way of life is the one you want to live? Are you prepared to give up your glasses? You'd have to under Puritanism.

But I digress, they were not the ones who founded this country. They founded their own colonies but their values were not part of what actually made the United States.

What do you think of Thomas Jefferson? The man who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution? The two documents that really make this nation what it is today.

Here are a few things he believed:

Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch toward uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one-half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Notes on the State of Virginia, 1781-82

[N]o man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities.
-- Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom (1779), quoted from Merrill D Peterson, ed, Thomas Jefferson: Writings (1984), p. 347

I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799

Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the common law.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814, responding to the claim that Chritianity was part of the Common Law of England, as the United States Constitution defaults to the Common Law regarding matters that it does not address. This argument is still used today by "Christian Nation" revisionists who do not admit to having read Thomas Jefferson's thorough research of this matter.

The proscribing any citizen as unworthy the public confidence by laying upon him an incapacity of being called to offices of trust and emolument unless he profess or renounce this or that religious opinion is depriving him injuriously of those privileges and advantages to which, in common with his fellow citizens, he has a natural right.
-- Thomas Jefferson, "Statute for Religious Freedom," 1779. Papers, 2:546

If we did a good act merely from the love of God and a belief that it is pleasing to Him, whence arises the morality of the Atheist? It is idle to say, as some do, that no such thing exists. We have the same evidence of the fact as of most of those we act on, to wit: their own affirmations, and their reasonings in support of them. I have observed, indeed, generally, that while in Protestant countries the defections from the Platonic Christianity of the priests is to Deism, in Catholic countries they are to Atheism. Diderot, D'Alembert, D'Holbach, Condorcet, are known to have been among the most virtuous of men. Their virtue, then, must have had some other foundation than love of God.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Law, June 13, 1814, using the term atheist to mean one who lacks a god belief, not one who is without morals, as was a common use of the term in Jefferson's day

And my personal favorite:

The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter.
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

[deleted account]

Wow Laura, I'm not sure where to begin. Except that yes, that website is as ridiculous as the godhates(insert vulgar word for homosexuals) site is. As I posted on the other thread, proportionately speaking, far more Christians commit suicide than atheists.

Lady - posted on 06/22/2010

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Have you come on here just to have a fight a piss everyone off?? If not then please watch your tone!!!

[deleted account]

Oh I agree Lisa. Some of the finest people in my life were Christians. I really have no bad memories at all of going to the Episcopal Church growing up. I enjoyed my time and also my time in a Masonic girls group as a teen. In fact, if I could have all that without the religious aspect, I'd still be there.

Yes, there are idiots in every group. It's sad that the actions of a few tarnish the whole.

*Lisa* - posted on 06/20/2010

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Jen, I am not surprised that some people would say that atheists lack moral fibre. Usually those kinds of ignorant comments come from christians who only surround themselves by other christians. They haven't even met people who don't believe what they do, and when they do come across people who tell them they don't believe in God, they usually react the way Laura put it. I get tired of those kinds of people too. But like I've said before, we're not all like that. Or as ignorant and self-focussed as those people. And people who believe in God are just as capable of lacking morals as anyone. We are all PEOPLE.

Amber - posted on 06/20/2010

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I only had time to read about half the posts...but my personal opinion is that you are who you are. If a candidate was an atheist and I thought he was the best for the country economically and I agreed with his vision for his term, he would get my vote.
If my child brings home somebody that he truly loves, I will accept them as long as they bring him happiness and are good to him. I don't care if you believe that purple monsters live in the sky (well...actually maybe that would make me question her sanity..hmm).
My big picture is that if you are a good person it doesn't matter what you believe or don't believe. It matters WHO you are, not what you believe.

[deleted account]

It's very difficult. A local radio pundit was discussing the religion of the next potential SCOTUS judge and atheism kept popping up even though the lady in question is not one. A caller emphatically stated that she would never hire someone she knew to be an atheist for her business because they are 'untrustworthy' and 'have no moral fiber.' Other callers agreed. The pundit stated that while us atheists certainly *can* be good, as a whole we lack humility and the humbleness that can only come by believing in a higher power. Knowing this pundit as I do, he meant good ol' Yahweh.

While I personally would never characterize a group as a whole, I think theists have every chance to utterly lack in humility and humbleness. Consider the thinking - in an incomprehensible vast universe of stars, planets, comets and such, an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent deity takes the time out of it's busy day to watch over one insignificant form of life out of all the forms of life on a very small insignificant planet. It cares enough about that one life form, specifically one out of all the billions of that life form, to worry that it may not make it's mortgage payment or it's favorite sport's team may lose the championship. If that's not egoism, I'm sure I don't know what is.

[deleted account]

I've already said that I don't have a problem with atheists. I'm sorry if you took offence to my post. I meant it as more of a joke rather than a statement about certain people looking down on others. Whenever there's a thread that includes a study claiming that Christians have low IQs or they're socially inferior in some other way, I usually don't get involved. If I do respond I try to make it funny (but I admit that it doesn't usually work). I was doing a similar thing here, but like I said, it doesn't always work.

Krista - posted on 06/19/2010

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If it's true that atheists hang out in higher social circles and earn more money, then what do they care if a few people who they consider to be uneducated rednecks don't hold them in high esteem?

Wow, that's an impressive strawman there, Alison. Earning more money or having more formal education does not automatically mean that the person in question looks down upon those who make less or who do not have as much formal education.

We may not believe in a deity, but we DO have feelings. And I can't imagine that it is a pleasurable sensation for American atheists to realize that the majority of their countrymen neither like nor trust them.

Tanya - posted on 06/19/2010

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I was raised in church and my parents did let me choose to be baptized. They believe that a child comes to the age of accountability and then must choose for themselves. The age of accountability is different for everyone. It is just the age when you know right from wrong. The believe any child under this age would go to heaven.

Also thanks for clearing up the whole internet/anit-christ thing for me. I honestly believe that most christians where weary of it when it came out.
I am pretty sure that they get some of these ideas for Jack Van Impee Presents. Don't know if you have seen that show but wow

Isobel - posted on 06/19/2010

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I know you don't think you have a problem with atheists but here's how I have witnessed most conversations between Christians and Atheists:

Christian- I think God is Wonderful
Atheist- There is no God
Christian- WHY ARE YOU ATTACKING MY RELIGION AND MOCKING ME??!?!?!?!?!

Thank you ladies for your answer about the Christenings/baptisms...Mine aren't Christened either...but nobody in my family cares...I have had Christian friends BEG me to though.

[deleted account]

If it's true that atheists hang out in higher social circles and earn more money, then what do they care if a few people who they consider to be uneducated rednecks don't hold them in high esteem?

I'm married to an atheist and I don't have a problem with them. I'm tolereant of their unbelief and I only ask the same in return.

Elisabeth - posted on 06/18/2010

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I am a Christain and to be honest am not bothered by atheists at all, never thought of them in the way that some are accusing us Christains of doing. While reading this I had a thought in my head that most of my friends are atheist and thats the first time I've even thought about it, which shows that i really have no 'bad' feelings towards them. I don't know where these numbers are coming from but I have a feeling that not all has been reveiled. And if it's apparently Christains that are have been the ones to provide these numbers then why do they list themselves on there? Anyway continue believing whatever you do, really makes no differance to me. 8-)

Jonie - posted on 06/18/2010

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A wise lady told me one time(my grandmother) Never argue Religion or politics that know one ever agreed. lol...
but I truly believe there is a GOD and there is SATAN I believe in Heaven and Hell. and I believe my mother and grandmother are in Heaven as I pray one day I will be to

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I am Canadian, Church and State are pretty much completely separated here (as in my opinion, they should be). I have no idea what religion our Prime Minister is.. nor do I much care as long as his personal religious beliefs aren't involved in his politics. So this really surprises me! I can't believe people feel that way!

Tanya - posted on 06/18/2010

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I went to a baptist church but most of the people in the area felt the same way.

Krista - posted on 06/18/2010

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That was one thing that I was glad people didn't make a fuss about. We didn't baptize Sam, and I thought for sure that my mom would make a stink about it. But I suppose she's gotten so accustomed to us that she probably didn't even expect it. I mean really, what religion would we have baptized him INTO? Keith's atheist, and I'm atheist/agnostic/theartistformerlyknownasRomanCatholic. So baptizing him would have just been a pony show, really.



When he gets older, if he finds a faith that speaks to him and brings him fulfillment and wants to be baptized or otherwise brought into that faith, I'll be right there supporting him.

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Gillian and Sarah, I like your reasons for not baptizing too. Totally respectable that you didn't want to lie about something that is so sacred to many people.

Tanya, maybe it was just the church you were attending at the time? I seriously don't remember anything to that nature.

*Lisa* - posted on 06/18/2010

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How strange Tanya. I wonder why they thought the internet was the anti-christ?? Absurd! What kind of church was that?

Gillian I really respect that!! I know some people who have had big fancy christenings simply for the family and I understand their reasons too.

Edited to add: I respect that too Sarah!

Sarah - posted on 06/18/2010

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I feel the same way as Gillian.

In the same respect that my husband and I didn't get married in a church, or have a religious ceremony because we don't believe in it.

I feel that standing in front of people and baptising/christening my kids when everyone KNOWS I don't believe would be totally wrong to me.



It's actually a pet hate of mine, when people who are totally NOT religious get their kids Christened because "it's the done thing" have a naming ceremony instead or something!

Tanya - posted on 06/17/2010

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No it wasn't Y2K. It was before that. I really remember hearing an actual sermon on it

*Lisa* - posted on 06/17/2010

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Well it does take money to help anybody. :)
I've never heard about that internet thing. Sounds a bit like the Y2K business which EVERYBODY was worried about.

Isobel - posted on 06/17/2010

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OK...so God takes a percentage of your paycheck...and the church likely helps the poor with it? Proof indeed that God is a socialist ;P

I never understood atheists being against baptism...if you don't believe in God, then they are just pouring water on your kids' head and if that makes their grandparents feel better...so be it.

Sherri - posted on 06/17/2010

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Never heard that either. So I have no clue, we have always had the internet too.

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Honestly, I don't remember that. But anything new is scary. Not just to Christians, but to people all over. So, maybe that had something to do with it? Don't know...we had the Internet from the beginning.

Tanya - posted on 06/17/2010

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Ok now this is another question for the christians. I mean no offense but when the internet was getting started I know that a lot of christian were calling it the anti-christ.

I can remember hearing sermons about how the internet would help the one world government track us. They really believed it was a sign of the end times and very evil. Now ten years later most of these same people use and love in internet

*Lisa* - posted on 06/17/2010

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Just a little note on the baptism thing - not all churches require you to baptise your child. I was never christened or baptised as a child, but when I was older I was allowed to make the decision for myself. The same will happen with our kids.
As for tithing, I am more than happy to give more than 10% to my church because I believe in the cause. I also have sponsor kids because I believe in that cause too. Churches need money to run, that's a simple fact. But I also think it's important that you know what kinds of things the churches will do with that money. A lot of churches are quite open about that. My family's church runs tonnes of programs in troubled areas in the district and the pastor himself does not get paid, so I trust them 100%. Of course there are dodgy churches out there, just as there are dodgy people in general. Some of the 'mega-churches' I've seen on TV with all the TV evangelizing have me really skeptical. I would never give my money to something that I wasn't sure was actually helping people. But I also know of a few 'mega-churches' that always are criticised by the media for the amount of money they generate, but the media never focus on the outstanding efforts these churches put into their local and overseas communities. One church in particular in Aus is always under-fire. The pastor is always completely open and even shared how much income he generates. That church has help centres for men and women who struggle with addictions, or have found themselves pregnant and no idea what to do about it, homeless etc etc. They also do major work in 3rd World countries.

Jane - posted on 06/17/2010

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I think everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe. My husband is athiest/agnostic....I'm not sure what...but he doesn't believe in God and thinks that you're worm food when you die (LOL). I believe in a higher power but not in organized religion. I believe in life after death.

I NEVER vote for President based on their religious beliefs...I could give a rats behind. I would NEVER disapprove of my child marrying someone who is atheist, considering I married one myself (LOL) but I would counsel them on having different beliefs can cause contention and you have to just agree to disagree.

I'm never sure why people who believe feel a need to convince atheists that they're wrong OR why some atheists feel a need to convince those that do believe that they are wrong.

In the end, someone is wrong and someone is right and until the time comes, know one really knows for 100% sure who that is.

Faith is just that....faith. Faith is a firm belief in something for which there is no proof. Both atheists and believers in God have faith and that's fine but there is NO PROOF in either so I just say, let people have faith in whatever it is they want to have faith in!

Allison - posted on 06/17/2010

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Tanya, I agree (on both posts above). When I hear references to the "Christian nation" it actually frightens me a bit, because I think people who say that seem very intolerant of other beliefs, and if put in charge, tend to persecute others. And there are many conservative Christians in office these days. (Although the more extreme they become, I think the less they are trusted - hopefully building their own trap that way?) Not just persecuting atheists but jews, muslims, buddhists, etc. Luckily, the "no religious test" clause of the constution is still upheld by the supreme court (per the recent NC atheist congressman who they tried to oust from office on grounds religious non-belief).



There is way too much religious persecution going on in the world, I sincerely hope that kind of violence and exclusion does not happen here (in the US). That's why I'm trying to be more brave in "coming out" to my Christian friends and family - I feel the more people understand/know, the more tolerant they tend to become...and possibly consider/listen to/trust atheist politicians, etc. But it's tough, especially with very religious family who love and cherish you one minute, and the next minute want to distance themselves when they learn one of your non-beliefs :( :( :(

Tanya - posted on 06/17/2010

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Also as for the tithing. I know some churches do help people with the money they take in. I just don't agree with mega churches that use it to make huge building. Why not feed hungry people with that money. We have a church here that is a pretty small church but they spent almost a million dollar when they rebuilt the church and vestibule. Most of it went to a new sound system. I just don't agree that they used that money wisely. I have had Christians tell me that in the old testament it tell you that you should be up a big and wonderful church to show gods glory. Most of them are referring to the temple of Solomon. These same people will tell me that we don't follow the other law of the old testament because when jesus came it cancel those out.

I am not saying that all Christians do this. I know that some of you are very loving and giving people. I jut hate to see all that money (imo) wasted.

Tanya - posted on 06/17/2010

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Allison, I am so tired of hearing that America is a christian nation. I really think that if people took the time to read one than one point of view they would come to the same conclusion. I realize that our history books paint a picture of our founding fathers that is, for the most part, untrue.

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