What one rude mom told me!

[deleted account] ( 128 moms have responded )

I'm also part of another online group where a mom tried to tell me that IF " I'm pro choice I shouldn't be allowed to experience the miracle of child birth! " LOL! Just because I feel that a woman has the right to choose what she does with her body means I'm not allowed to have my own child? She tried to use the bible as a shield and it made me nauseous! Anyone have any comments or dare offer their opinion? I don't believe in abortion but I do believe a every woman should have a choice!

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Iris - posted on 02/06/2010

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That's really low Kelsey. You respond but you don't bother apologizing for immature name calling on your part. Really shows your character...

Iris - posted on 02/07/2010

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Another thing Kelsey. Life isn't simple. You keep on pondering simple this and simple that and simply this and simply that. Your life may be very simple and easy, but it isn't for everyone. It's not ALWAYS simple for a girl/woman to decide to terminate her pregnancy, if it ever is.

Charlie - posted on 02/06/2010

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First of all the purpose of debate is not to make people agree with you .

Lets look at this realistically instead of idealistically .

You cannot put regulations on abortion that allow one circumstance to abort and another not to , Rape and incest victims rarely come forward as it is , it is VERY hard to do so let alone make a statement to have an abortion , the other side is women who do use as abortion as contraception (something almost EVERYONE disagrees with both pro life and pro choice ) will make false rape/ incest statements to get an abortion , in incest cases especially in those under the legal age police will be notified and someone charged another reason why victims may not come forward have a child and continue to live in a dangerous environment not only as a person who will continue to be abused but now places a child in harms way .
This brings something else into the picture , with all the women out there not willing to make statements due to a deep shame MANY will go to illegal backyard abortions .

Remember that when you outlaw something it will continue and grow illegally , unfortunately abortion is needed whether its legal or not it will continue , so would you prefer a clean clinic with medical professionals or a dirty garage , a table and a coat hanger hooked at the end ?

Those are the real choices whether we like it or not , this is not a perfect world it never will be , we can all dream for things to be perfect where people aren't raped , children aren't aborted but that just isnt reality , otherwise we can all discuss our wishes for a perfect planet in another thread .

Krista - posted on 02/04/2010

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Jackie....obviously you have never been raped nor known anyone who has been. Let me tell you from experience, you cannot POSSIBLY understand the emotions that are attached to it. You are NUMB for the first little while. You are ANGRY for the next little while and you struggle EVERYDAY to NOT remain a victim. I really would think twice before calling someone who is a victim of rape naive in ANY way. Some people DO have the free thinking to come about and do something about it. For others, the rape was so violent and horrendous (all rape is, but there are varying degrees) this is NOT something they think about.

I have to be honest and say that your close-mindedness on this subject has me extremely angry.

Iris - posted on 02/07/2010

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I'm pro-choice. I don't believe that because a woman gets pregnant whatever the circumstances may be, that her power over her own body should be given over to the fetus. I have never been in a situation like that, but I don't want my choice to be taken away.

I have a friend who had an abortion, she got pregnant very young and she did what she thought was best in her situation. She is a loving mother today and I would never judge her for her decision, it was hard enough for her to make it.

Kelsey, saying that your comment was "low" will never be as offensive as calling someone "thick sculled" and you did that. You called her out and in the same sentence you called her "Thick sculled". You can deny it all you want but it's there. And yes, I'll say it is LOW when you get called out for your personal attack and you don't even have the decency to apologize.

As for us being friends...yeah when we celebrate Christmas in July..

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Leah - posted on 02/10/2010

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I am PRO CHOICE however abortion is not my choice.But everyone has the right to make that choice!

Leah - posted on 02/10/2010

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I am PRO CHOICE however abortion is not my choice.But everyone has the right to make that choice!

[deleted account]

back on topic...I think that what that woman said was absolutely absurd and rude...just because you are pro-choice doesn't mean you love babies less or are incapable of being a good parent...

Ashley - posted on 02/09/2010

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Kyndra, if a woman is murdered and the assailant knew of the pregnancy, they would be charged with a crime. Usually third trimester is more popular with conviction because the fetus most likely could be viable.
Second trimester/late term abortions aren't legal everywhere. Some states have them banned. They are generally done because of a disease the fetus could have that would mean it either would die shortly after birth or live a uncomfortable life. Or, it is because the mother faces health issues that would get worse as the pregnancy continued. Most diseases/disorders are not discovered until the second trimester, so that's why it is in a bad light. Abortion doctors such as the late Dr. Tiller performed these abortions if the woman had her doctor's permission/advice to get it done for medical reasons. It isn't the same as a woman going in when she is only eight weeks along. Late-term abortions are done in less than 2% of all abortions I believe... Think of Potter's Syndrome, Anecephaly, etc.
No one likes abortion. It isn't fun. But I'm glad it is available.

Kyndra - posted on 02/09/2010

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And then there's proving a rape. ALready tried to convict the person when i turned 18 case got dropped after he got a lawyer. Not like it would've been any different 3 years ealier.

Kyndra - posted on 02/09/2010

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Krista, that's great if the morning after pill is part of a rape kit, but I'm still not ok with abortion just because someone decided to wait 2 weeks to say something. Any sane person is going to know there's a chance they could get pregnant if they are raped...if you have a problem with that (which you very reasonably should) then do something about it. And if you are naive enough to not be honest about what happened, you can still go into places like planned parenthood and get the pill anyways with a simple "the condom broke" story.





This offended me personally. I was raped from the time i was 12-15. For one I Didn't know hardly anything about being pregnant besides you have to have sex to get preg. What 12-15 yr old girl is going to be thinking straight enough after being raped to say "o i might be pregnant I should get the morning after pill." O and at 15 I did not know what the morning after pill was. Let alone how to get it. OR wheere to go to get help. I did not know about planned parenthood. And even if i did know all this how was i supposed to get there walk???

That being aside. There's the emotions involved. It took me 3 YEARS to get over the fact that i was raped and to realize it doesnt make me a disgusting person. I was so embarrased taht it had happened that i didnt tell anybody. Thats how most people are. Its something that makes you feel very used and disgusting and embarrased. Something you have obviusly never went through. Not wanting to fight but just letting you know it's not that simple. This is a very strong subject for me. If i would have gotten pregnant I probably would have had an abortion. You dont want to carry a child that came from rape, especially if its a family member.

THe comment "if you are naieve enough not to be honest about what happened" That is so rude and obviously you wouldnt understand at all what it feels like. ITs not being naive at all it being in shock and embarrased.

I DO NOT agree with abortions as birth control. But in the case of rape or if it's medically necessary i can understand it. I know some people who have had abortions and I couldnt do it. But like i said if i was 13 and got preg by rape probably would have.

And how is it that if a woman is murdered in the last trimester of her pregnancy it counts as two murders? but 2nd trimester abortions are legal?

Krista - posted on 02/09/2010

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Just to let you know, Sara... I attempted to flag her posts, but COM must have been glitching because I couldn't.

[deleted account]

We can't be on here 24/7 so I apologize. This conversation will remain locked and I will look over everything and address what needs to be addressed. None of Kelsey's threads were flagged which is the fastest way to bring it to my attention as I mod another community and admin a very large community. If you find something inappropriate, please flag it.

Thanks,

Sara

Isobel - posted on 02/07/2010

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If I were a mod, I would have addressed Kelsey SEVERAL times by now...she is attacking and being extremely rude...I guess you can say anything you want here...so long as the mods agree with you.

Krista - posted on 02/07/2010

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Technically, the baby's body IS hers as it is totally reliant on her. It's a part of her until it's born and THEN it becomes it's own body. It can't survive without her.

Rachel - posted on 02/07/2010

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Other subject but I love your default picture lol so cute. Okay back to abortion...I am not a huge fan and I wouldn't have one (even if I was raped) and the arguement of "its a womens right to choose what she does with the her own body" that baby body is not hers. Anyway the reality of things is abortions will happen no matter what so we miswell make them safe for women. I would rather see a scared 15 have a abortion in a doctors office than in some dirt bags basement and that is why I am also pro-choice.

Ashley - posted on 02/07/2010

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You know...I thought about this. If abortion were to become illegal; except for rape, or incest, or medical issues, (lots of exceptions), then I guess everyone should be FORCED to adopt I'd say...hmmm...six kids or so. Unless of course you then turn on the women who give up their kids and FORCE them to keep it...yeah, then we'll increase the amount of abused kids and child murders. Fantastic plan! Not to mention the sudden "mysterious" increase of deaths in women...botched abortions? No way! I thought those were illegal! So just like during the prohibition where there were illegal underground alcohol distributors, there might actually be illegal abortions?

All sarcasm aside. If abortion were to become illegal, more women would die. More children would be left in the "system", never to be adopted. More unwanted children would be abused and even killed. That is not the country, the land of the free, that I would want to live in. Like Loreen said, it is not black and white. It takes a lot of thought within yourself to have an abortion. It can become a battle within yourself what is more important: the perhaps horrible life the child could have, or feeling morally justified. No one LIKES abortion. If you do, well then you have a serious issue. I do like having the choice to have one safely. It's not like I was all, "Oh, Friday night, I have $500 to blow, first I'll get an abortion, then go to Red Robin for dinner, then a movie...what a fun date night!". No, it was a very personal situation in which unfortunately I was alone. I will live with my decision forever. It will never leave me. But I do not regret it. I do regret living my life the way I did at the time. Children should never be a punishment. They should be welcomed happily into loving arms. My son is well loved. I am now pregnant and when I give birth, that child will be loved as well.

Krista - posted on 02/07/2010

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THANK YOU, IRIS! This is what I've been trying to point out.



And lol@Kelsey saying she hasn't taken personal digs at anyone in this thread.

Charlie - posted on 02/07/2010

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Its not about if a woman is " dumb enough " Kelsey , desperate times call for desperate measures when there is nothing else on offer such as legal abortion for all the reasons i mentioned previously , the reasons why abortion can never be regulated or banned all together .

Because the world is not black and white there are all shades of grey that need consideration when discussing these matters .

We are lucky enough( in my opinion ) to live in countries that do offer support to those who truely need it because there are corners of the world where coat hangers are being used because they cannot get the medical attention they need , because many of the reasons they have for not keeping a baby such as incest and rape are punishable by death and often in methods we consider torture such as stoning and genital mutilation , This is what we would look forward to if abortion were to be completely banned .



Believe it or not these things are happening in our own country for much the same reason , deep shame within themselves and their family and often to those who come from families of staunch anti abortionists .



Like i said earlier its either legal procedure or backyard procedures and thats the reality of it .

Kelsey - posted on 02/07/2010

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I maintain that I didnt call you names. Thats my opinion on why someone would think a "fetus" isnt a real person. Im not going to appologise for having an opinion. Im sorry that you happen to be one of those people who beleive that. I see how it seemed directed toward you since I was replying to your post before, but I wasnt implying that YOU were one of those people, I know it sounded that way, but It honestly wasnt my intention. I am seriously going to bed now. Im not going to defend myself all night for saying something so mild. I have been called worse. Low, is much more offensive than thick skulled or in denial. I wasnt attacking your charactor like my new friend Iris here.

Ashley - posted on 02/06/2010

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Not the patience? Hmm...I have encountered that before...while defending women's rights in a pro-choice group I am in. How hard is it to say sorry for calling me names? I never called you anything.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Im not responding to you Ashley. I dont have the patience to deal with you.

Ashley - posted on 02/06/2010

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I'm not looking for an apology from this post. You, yourself, called me thick-skulled and in denial. That was an attack, albeit mild. It was very rude.

And, birth control doesn't always work. I was on the pill and we used a condom. Still got pregnant. I don't see why someone who didn't want to be pregnant, took precautions, still got pregnant, should be forced to continue with a pregnancy.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Ashley, Im sorry you have taken a debate on this sensitive subject and took it personally.

Jodi - posted on 02/06/2010

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Kelsey, free healthcare does not help. We have youth centres here in Australia where birth control is available free. Its not the availability or affordability of the birth control that is the problem, it is that a lot of people don't use it when they should, particularly younger people (which I think you will find are the largest demographic for unwanted pregnancies). Also, birth control is not fail safe. It does fail. However, having said that, I think the BIGGEST issue leading to unwanted pregnancy is lack of education. Unfortunately, however, you can't tell a teenager anything, LOL.

Also, Kelsey, no-one is cornering "you", they are just disagreeing with your opinions.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Ashley, Im sorry you have taken a debate on this sensitive subject and took it personally.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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People who cant afford bc would then be able to prevent their unwanted pregnancies. Not saying it would FIX the problem, but it would be a big help. Like Loureen said, the world cannot be perfect. I wouldnt expect regulations in abortion to be fool-proof, just as all other regulations arent. Drugs are illegal, its a better situation because of that, but obviously it still exists, and can be a problem.

Ashley - posted on 02/06/2010

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"Ashley, it IS murder, and if you honestlt cant see it that way, you are just thick skulled or in denial. Taking another human beings life, is MURDER. By putting the label "fetus" on an unborn child, you are trying to de-humanize it, but a baby in the womb is just as much a person as you are."

You know Kelsey, that was rude to say. I am not in denial, nor am I thick-skulled. In fact I am very open minded, which goes hand in hand with me being pro-choice.

It is not murder! It is ending a potential life. My embryo/fetus was in no way viable at seven weeks. And I call it a fetus because that is what it is! Look in a textbook if you don't believe me. Declaring a fetus a baby is inaccurate. If you are pregnant, go ahead and call it whatever the hell you want, but technically, it is a fetus, a potential baby.

And no, a fetus is not just like me. I am a born person. I have rights. A fetus has no rights until it is born and becomes an infant.

I respect your choice. Respect mine. My life will make no difference to yours.

I do not regret my decision. It was the right thing to do that I felt. I will live with that decision, not you, so quit being so rude about it.

You want to take our rights away? Go ahead, what'll be next? Voting? Career choices?

State your opinions, but leave name-calling out of it. I don't call you names.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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You might be right, maight be wrong. I really dont even care. I was debating with the girl. I had done nothing offensive and dont see how this is at all an issue. It seemed to me she wasnt understanding because she kept ignoring my points when I made them and arguing the same points as before without even responding to my opposing points. She seemed to be constantly having issues comprehending what I was saying. It just seemed to me as if she had her opinion, and wasnt at all open to hearing mine. In the end, I dont care. I was debating. Whats the problem? I just dont see how Im being cornered for my debate? If she did understand, and just didnt agree, say that to her as well. It takes two people to argue.

Jodi - posted on 02/06/2010

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if people were just given free healthcare, they would be preventing so many of these unwanted pregnancies.




How do you see that happening. We have free healthcare and subsidised pharmaceuticals here in Australia...... so you educate me as to how free healthcare prevents unwanted pregnancies, because it hasn't done that here.

Jodi - posted on 02/06/2010

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But Kelsey, when some argues a point against your opinion, and you don't agree, you don't say that someone doesn't understand. I think you will find that Krista understands perfectly. She just doesn't agree with you.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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If a woman is dumb enough to stick a hanger up her vagina, nomatter what reasoning she has for not wanting to be pregnant or have a baby, and dies, how is that anyones fault but her own? We cant prevent people from commiting suicide. If shes mentally unstable enough to do that, than all she needs to do, is go to a doctor, tell them that, and they would abort the baby. That would fall into the danger category I have been mentioning since my first comment. If a doctor beleives the patient is in harms way, for whatever reason, they should be able to do the abortion. If someone is going to lie about being raped, so be it, they wouldnt have to report it, and get an innocent man in trouble. They may fool doctor into giving some unnecessary abortions, but at least it would minimize the massive amount of abortion being used as bc. Not to mention, if people were just given free healthcare, they would be preventing so many of these unwanted pregnancies. There is a way to regulate abortion.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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I see your point about people lying about being raped in order to get an abortion, that does put a kink in my theory, but still doesnt make it impossible. Tawny, I wasnt calling her crazy, a specific comment she had made was driving me crazy. I just couldnt fathom how that in any way made sense to her. I wasnt being offensive by disagreeing with her comments. I realize she has a right to her opinion, and I wasnt trying to change her mind, just trying to show her an angle at which to view abortion that she just didnt seem to understand. I was just disagreeing with her, thats it. When someone argues a point against your opinion, and you dont agree, you are going to debate back.

Tawny - posted on 02/06/2010

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Quoting you Kelsey "That one was driving me crazy" was really rude. Krista has every right to what she believes and you also to what you believe. So where do you get off saying that about her. You should have just left the conversation. Just because you believe in what you believe doesn't mean that you are going to change what Krista believes in. But to turn around and say she is driving you crazy is just like calling her crazy ..well I could come back and say that you are also... I just don't understand why some people have to have the last word and Kelsey your lucky that Krista hadn't seen that you you said she was driving you Crazy yet... it doesn't matter who it was you just don't say something like that ( dont take it like I am threatening you I am just saying because if it was me i would tak it like you called me crazy) well lets just say....I wouldn't be a happy person

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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That one was driving me crazy too Sara! It is somewhat pointless debating about this because nomatter how right my points are, if someone doesnt want to hear it, theres no way I can change their mind. I hope I have at least made someone out there think twice about their beliefs on abortion. Thats all I want. I just cant beleive there arent already regulations on it! You cant do drugs legally, but if your so stuck on an indeviduals rights with their own bodies, than you would have to oppose that law as well. It just makes no sense. The government is here to protect us (supposedly) from drugs, murder, etc. An unborn baby has every right to be protected as well! Why is it so hard for people to agree with that?!

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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So you think legally, the government has no place protecting unborn children? Do you think it should be considered child endangerment by doing drugs while pregnant? Its the same thing, if its convenient for her to continue with her heroine addiction and not put her childs needs first, the government has no right to step in? How is killing an unborn baby for selfish reasons any different? Im not saying it should be outlawed, but it needs to be regulated, and only available to people who really need it!

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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In any case, I'm done. I'm tired. I'm pregnant (OMG! I DIDN'T CHOOSE ABORTION!) and I can't sit here all night trying to make you understand my point.

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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LOL! Omg........I'm totally NOT debating on whether I, myself, would abort a child. I'm strictly talking about the scientific and legal aspects of it. You're saying it's murder. It's not, by all rights. Would I abort a child? No. Would I tell someone else to? No, I would not. If someone SERIOUSLY thought about aborting a child and knew it was there only way out... would I call them a murderer? No. I wouldn't.

Let me take a page from your book: Just because I'm pro-choice does NOT mean I'd MAKE that choice.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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That is a good point Krista, I cant tell you your wrong for thinking that way, and if I were to respond, Im sure it would become very offensive, so Im going to agree to disagree with you. I cant make you believe that an unborn baby has a soal, feels pain, has a right to live, etc. If you dont beleive that, I cant make you, I wish I could. Just remeber that you were an unborn baby once too, and nomatter what situation you were born into, wouldnt you have rather lived than not?

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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Isn't it convenient that someone who holds the same convictions as her would come riding to her rescue to say that EVERYTHING I'm saying is wrong and that I'M the root of the problem. Very convenient.

Jackie - posted on 02/06/2010

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Seriously!!! This isn't a debate or a conversation anymore. You guys have turned this into a stupid fight over semantics b/c you don't want to let her use the word "murder" b/c of some dictionary...fine, whatever, then just say flat out killing...the point is still the same and you know that it is.

If you read the beginning of this conversation b/w Dana and I it started with alot of "i see your point but..." "thats interesting have you thought of...." type of comments. not "well my dictionary says..." or this is the definition so you are an idiot.

she's pro-life (as am I) and her reasoning is b/c it is killing another human, which sorry but its not part of "normal" life. So you don't agree with her that abortion is wrong, fine you dont' have to, but the end result is the ending a life. This debate started about the why's adn whats behind it....b/c we all know the end result is not debatable.

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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A fetus doesn't HAVE rights. It's not a sentient being. It doesn't even understand rights. It doesn't know it doesn't have rights. It doesn't even KNOW the concept of being alive. It is NOT independent of it's mother. If the mother ceased to exist, so would the fetus. You cannot call it murder when it simply does not apply.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Just because Im not Pro-choice doesnt make me a crazy, over religious, ignorant, Pro-lifer (not that all of them are).

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Im NOT close minded, and all I ever do is think outside of the box. Thats practically my motto. Thats why Im not going to feel forced to accept ALL abortion just because I beleive in womens rights. I cant forget about the childs rights as well...

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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Oh, I'm sorry.....because definitions in this day and age hold ABSOLUTELY no water. We should all just rely on the thoughts and opinions of close minded people who have NEVER thought outside the box.

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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Ugh back to this!!! Did you not read my comment on how pulling a textbook definition out of your rear isnt going to really prove anything? I said before.... Not everything that isnt illegal is ok. You cant say that abortion isnt murder just because it isnt "unlawful" killing of a person. It is still killing a person. The reason they added the word unlawful is because the term murder is used in court, therefor a lawyer cant pull out the dictionary and say that abortion is murder because it is the killing of another person. You cant sue the state of Texas for capitol punishment because their murders were legal, but that doesnt make it morally correct. follow me??

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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for the billionth time, I said murder of a child was indecnt, not pro-choice!!! Comprehention is a big part in trying to debate. Please stop putting my words in the wrong context. Noone thinks murder is ok, Im sure you dont, and that wouldnt make you indecent!!!


Dear Lord! My head is going to be bloody from banging it against a freaking wall with you. Pro-choice means we AGREE that women should be able to abort their child. If we agree with that choice, then we're indecent. There's no twisting of your words in the least. READ YOUR OWN WORDS.

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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I fail to see how TWO people are twisting the SAME words that you're using. We're seeing it the way it was written and you're trying to back track now.

FACT: mur⋅der
/ˈmɜrdər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [mur-der] Show IPA
–noun
1. Law. the killing of another human being under conditions specifically covered in law.

Can you please provide me with a different definition? Because, if you can, then I'll believe your "facts".

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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for the billionth time, I said murder of a child was indecnt, not pro-choice!!! Comprehention is a big part in trying to debate. Please stop putting my words in the wrong context. Noone thinks murder is ok, Im sure you dont, and that wouldnt make you indecent!!!

Kelsey - posted on 02/06/2010

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I see it as fact, sorry. Dont see in any way how abortion cant be considered murder. Give me a real good reason why it isnt please! And no, you just had a hard time comprehending my writing, that doesnt make me a bad debator. I think twisting peoples words and refusing to comprehend their writing is what makes a bad debator.

Krista - posted on 02/06/2010

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Abortion being murder is your opinion and NOT fact. The fact is, it's NOT murder. Go by the facts when you debate.



And you very will DID call me indecent because I AM pro choice. You really aren't very good at debating at all, Kelsey.

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