Who should be allowed to use societal resources?

Tah - posted on 02/21/2011

No..I understood completely, you agree school is a good thing but not until your kids are in school because when your mom worked It caused emotional issues for you and you want to spend that time your kids...plenty of people have the same reasons as you.

Kathy - posted on 02/21/2011

Lacye, yes, there are definitely those, like your bf's ex, who abuse the system.I've met a few! But in my experience, they're in the minority, and it would be a pity, I think, to generalise from those lazy good-for-nothings.

My son-in-law hasn't got a steady job, despite having 2 university degrees. They struggle by on some casual work ( which tends to end abruplty, as casual work does!) and some government assistance. My daughter will soon return to work, but the problem then will be paying for child-care for their 3 pre-schoolers - that will cost more than she earns. And when she is earning, their government allowance will disappear, and they'll be in a worse financial position than before! Her husband is quite willing to be the stay-at-home-Dad, but the problem then is, that you often get no notice of casual jobs, so how to arrange child-care then? And if you turn down jobs, people start saying you're lazy!

So it's a lose-lose situation in many cases. Yes, I know there's some lazy so-and-sos out there. But I also know many people who are struggling to get by.

Danielle - posted on 02/21/2011

Tah, I really think you misunderstood what I was trying to say, I was just telling you MY personal experience and the fact that my mom worked so much, just made me lonley and needing a mom. She didn't have time to do those "mom" things that you mentioned. I of course would agree that going to school is a good idea, not thinking that is just plain silly.

Lacye - posted on 02/21/2011

Kathy, I agree up to a point. My bf's ex is one of those people who don't try but yet she gets assistance. She is able to work, but she doesn't want to. She has even told my bf she was never going to work and that if she had to, she was going to sue him for more child support. It's people like her that doesn't deserve the assistance that she gets because she is lazy and doesn't want to try.

Kathy - posted on 02/21/2011

Unfortunately, there are always going to be those who abuse the system., in the same way as there are always going to be people that "earn" hundreds of thousands a year and do precious little!

I've known plenty of people who have been on welfare of some sort (including myself) and most of those see it as a stepping stone - something to make ends meet till life improves. And, of course, there are those who will always need government assistance due to circumstances such as inability to work. I think it is a government's absolute duty to help those who are unable to help themselves.

One of the problems we have these days, unfortunately, is the fact that jobs are so thin on the ground. And, laudable as the idea of educational achievement is, there is definitely no guarantee that having a good education will get you a job. There is nothing more dispiriting than receiving rejection letter after rejection letter (been there, done that!), or being "let go" at casual jobs merely because you were the last one appointed! So I really think that instead of pointing the finger and saying "they're not trying" (and I'm not saying you do, Tah, but I've known instances!) we should be cutting people a bit of slack and showing a bit of understanding.

Tah - posted on 02/21/2011

It seems like you are taking things personally when nothing I say has anyones name on it. My mom worked and it had the opposite effect on us, it showed us you be at your kids plays, make their prom dresses, take them to church, recitals etc and work and not cause emotional stress or damage. Taught us a good work ethic and independence. I think how we are raised has a big influence on what we chose to do when we are adults and if waiting on school is what works for you that's great. I understand needing help, been there done that, I just think it's a stepping stone not something to be used permanently, one way to try to get off is schooling, among others....I guess some people are taking what I say personally, I'm talking about things I see everyday and have seen most of my life, people who don't try and their many excuses for it.

Danielle - posted on 02/21/2011

Tah, I do consider going to school, but I am planning on waiting till our girls are in pre-school or kindergarten. I'm lucky enough right now that when we do need a bit of financial help, my grandmother helps out. For now, my main goal is being able to stay home with my girls, it's extremely important to me, that I'm the one with them during these few years, and not have them at a sitters or daycare regularly. My family isn't too big on babysitting my girls, except for my MIL, she watches them like once a week for about the whole day, so I can get caught up on cleaning and revive myself a bit. And the BF works "B" shift (2pm-11:30pm) so our schedule at home is a bit different here, otherwise we would never see hubby lol When I was growing up, my mother was a single parent working 2-3 jobs (mostly waitressing) most of the time to support us. So I was basically raised by daycare and sitters, she did finally get a degree when i was about 10, but it didn't make much of a difference in wages. It was basically working only 2 jobs instead of the occasioal 3rd. We were only on assistance once (food stamps) and that was for no longer then 6 months at the most. So basically, I never saw my mother when I was a child, and even though i knew it was so she could support us, it still did cause a lot of emotional issues growing up. So I am determined to stay home with them until they are in school and thats when I plan on starting school of some sort, to get something under my belt. Luckily I will have plenty of options because of where we live, we have 2 community colleges, 2 trade/certificate program schools and the University of rochester and RIT (roch. insitute of tech) and our university has a wonderful medical program, since our biggest hospital is the teaching hospital associated w/ the uni.
Sorry for the rambling,I've been sick so I haven't been able to sleep all night, so ill just hope this all makes sense lol. I just wanted everyone to know why I wasn't choosing school right now, cuz I know some people who read these just jump right to conclusions for situations they know nothing about.

Tah - posted on 02/21/2011

Danielle looks like we feel the same way...I know everyones situation is different. I am a stickler for education...trade school, college online etc, is it a guarantee, nope, ive said I know it's a bad economy. If something ever happens with me being a nurse and my husbands military career and I need assistance, I would not hesitate to get help...while continuing to try. Trying is my point, people like your future sister in law that's what I'm talking about, not even trying. Even your brother is trying and that's great as well. I also said said that medicaid should be available and if people need it by all means use it..please...preventative and maintenance care are very important. Looks like we agree on all points but people get gitchy when I say go to school, Again I know what the economy is like, but for certain fields it can give you an advantage. My developmental pysch professor would always asked people what profession they were going into and why and he gave you the numbers for employment in that area, his job for the government is working with people who are switching jobs, or bodies are not allowing them to do physical labor anymore after 25-30 years yet they still need to work. I get it..I just believe in a lot of instances it can give you a leg up..in some cases it won't. I'm still for it though..

Mary Renee - posted on 02/20/2011

Danielle I think you are a perfect example of the answer to the originial post... if anyone is deserving of government assistance and resources, in your case - health care - you deserve it. Your boyfriend works and you find a way to get by on the minimum ammount of assistance necessary. I think your post is a good example.

Danielle - posted on 02/20/2011

I have medicaid, and my daughter's have child health plus, it's a ny state insurance that is based on income, right now it's free for us, but a friend of mine that has it for her kids pays just $10 a month for each of them, she is a single mother who does work and was lucky enough to find a sitter for her 2 for just $100 a week,She has somehow managed to not be on any type of assistance (exept from her parents lol) My boyfriend and I have twin 18 m/o girls, I'm a stay at home mom and he works full time in a warehouse job @ about $11 an hour, so were not working with much. He has his health ins. through his work, which is outragous enough for just him, adding our children to it would be ridiculous, not to mention all the co-pay and bills that would not be completley covered. Our girls were born at 30 weeks and have a few health issues, so were in and out of docs and hospitals often. I myself have health issues and need to be on a matience prescription, that without insurance would cost me $500 a month, I've had to pay that out of pocket a few times when having issues getting medicaid, and we definetley don't have that kind of money jusy laying around. I don't work because it would really just be silly, most of the daycares around here charge an average of $200 a week per child, so that would be $400 a week for us, so i would be working all week to still make less than what I would have to pay daycare. No, I didnt go to college, neither did my boyfriend, but a degree is no gaurentee that you will get a better paying job. My older brother has a masters degree from UofR, and he has not been able to find a job with his degree in 3 years, and he works at a Macy's make-up counter, making less than my boyfriend. The only difference is he just now has more bills than we do (student loans and credit cards to make it through school) Our little family of 4 qualifies for every form of government assistance, but the only thing we get is health insurance for me and the girls. We barely scrape by every month, but we manage, so I refuse to get the other forms of assistance (food stamps, HEAP, ect.) even though we could and It would make things much more comfortable financially, but I figure if we can make it by without, then that's what we will do, unless it comes down to truly needing it.
I hate when i see people using welfare services as a paycheck, and the same goes for unemployment, I know a lot of people need it, and won't settle for certain jobs where the pay comes out to be less than the unemployment check, but there are some people who use it as vacation pay (my soon to be sister in law) she has been collecting unemployment for about a year, and it's not hard to do with all these ext. they keep doing w/ it. She has not once applied for a job and has absolutely no intentions on getting one until her unemployment finally ends, which then she'll prolly get on welfare, and she is fully capable of working (and she is only 20!!)
sorry this is so long, but I go nuts with this subject, and when i see some people just say go to school and get a better job and that kinda thing, its not always an option to go to college and it's not a guarantee either. I just think if you really need the services, use them, but don't make a career out of it and don't abuse a system that is there for HELP not convenience. Also, not all people who use gov't services are trash or uneducated or anything like that, that is just ridiculous. Everyone's situation is different, so don't judge, as you could find yourself in a position someday to need those services.

Tah - posted on 02/20/2011

I know the economy sucks, there are jobs out there, though I know it's hard, some people have to work at things they didn't go to school for, or are overqualified for, for some it's legit for some an excuse.

Mary Renee - posted on 02/20/2011

@ Tah, I have a B.A. in journalism and graduated with honors. Unfortunately my education hasn't helped me gett a job in this economy. As for other women, they're definitely going to need to rely on assistance if they're having to pay for their education and take time away from work to go to class.

@ Lacyce, I'm sorry about that. I think I've heard that Hawaii is one of the most socialized liberal states ever, so it might be that it's easier to get health care here. I'm not actually on "Medicaid" but another program call "MedQuest" and the program I have was specifically for pregnant women and women with children, so it might have been easier to qualify.

I need glasses too, it's not covered under my insurance, but I have "eyemed" which provides me with either a pair of glasses, or a years worth of contacts. Sears also often has two pairs of glasses for $99 dollars and $50 eye exams, I don't know if that's something you could swing. They also offer the same services at our Walmart and it might be even cheaper. Good luck.

Lacye - posted on 02/20/2011

Mary: No I'm not married to her father. We live together and are planning to get married soon but we just haven't made it there yet. I tried to get on Medicaid for myself but I was told that because I was a student and I lived with my bf (I couldn't get child support off of him since I live with him) I was not eligible for Medicaid. It really sucks because I have been needing to get some new glasses because my eye sight is getting worse every year, which was to be expected. I have to wait until I can save enough money to go and get my eyes checked and be able to afford some new glasses.

Tah - posted on 02/20/2011

I agree with lacye...if you can work and just don't, if you don't make enough to pay for daycare, education can most times be a remedy to that, so go to school. If someone can't work, that is one thing, if you work and fall short that means you are trying, if you are sitting home on your duff feeling entitled for whatever reason, while others try all the time..that's a problem. Also, I don't look at health insurance as one of those things, if you need that..use it....

Mary Renee - posted on 02/19/2011

I'm with Brittany in that I'm much more likely to try to get work when I can afford childcare.

Before I was a mother, I would take any job I could find, I worked at an ice cream shop for minimum wage, I worked at a homeless shelter for $8/hour, I was a hostess, a waitress, a bartender, a preschool teacher... I did any kind of work I could find.

But now that I have a child - I have to find a real "carreer" job that pays enough so that I'm not just working to pay for child care. Otherwise it seems pointless to work JUST to pay somebody else to spend time with my daughter when I could be the one spending time with her. You know what I mean? She's under a year so as she gets a little older the cost of child care decreases but right now it's $1000-1200 where I live. It drops dramatically when she hits 18 months and then I'll have more flexibility when it comes to finding work. I have sent my resume to work in childcare centers and preschools though, because they usually give you a discount for childcare! haha. That's how I'm trying to navigate my way through the childcare dilemna. I'm write a book on the side too. Haha, but that won't be ready until my daughter's old enough for cheaper childcare!

I have another question for Lacye. When you say you are still with your daughter's father, are you married to him? Because that was a problem that we ran into that ended up better in the long run. My boyfriend HAS health insurance, but he had Kaiser. Since we weren't married I wasn't covered under Kaiser and therefore I couldn't deliver the baby in a Kaiser hospital. Because our daughter wasn't going to be born in a Kaiser hospital... she couldn't be covered by Kaiser in the first three months even though she was HIS daughter! It was a messed up loop hole that made me sign up for government health care immediately to make sure we were both covered and since I was pregnant and making less than $2000/month I was automatically accepted and my daughter was automatically enrolled when she was born.

If you are still with the father and married, you should be able to have yourself and your daughter covered under his health insurance. If you are not married and just boyfriend/girlfriend, you should be eligible for government health care as a student making less than $2000/month.


Women with children getting assistance for health care and/or food vouchers (like through WIC) isn't lazy - it's smart (at least in my opinion)

What really makes MY blood boil is when people who are make boatloads of money under-the-table (bartenders, strippers, drug dealers) get food stamps!!!!!!!!!!! I used to see it all the time as a bartender. Then they spend the rest of their money on drugs and use their food stamps for food even though they have MORE than enough money to feed their addictions. That's my two cents.

Oh yes, and people buy cigarettes with EBT (food stamps) and I don't agree with that either. It especially makes me mad when they have children and they should be spending that money on their children - not themselves.

Lacye - posted on 02/19/2011

I'm not talking about child care subsidy or children's insurance. I'm talking about the adults that get the insurance but won't do anything. My daughter has Medicaid, thank god because we wouldn't be able to afford the medical bills.

Brittany - posted on 02/19/2011

Oh it is horrible that my daughter has state insurance since we can't afford the $300 a month for private. I mean seriously how idiotic.

Child care supsidy is necissary, over 1,000 a month in childcare is rediculous (I realize that those people need to get paid, it is still a lot of money). I would have to work 40 hours a week at $13 to JUST pay for childcare. So I don't work. It saves us money in the end.

I don't feel guilty, especailly since it's only insurance. If it wasn't for that we'd be doing fine.

Lacye - posted on 02/19/2011

I think that goes in with if they are trying to do something. If a person is trying to do something with themselves, then yes, they deserve the assistance. I just can't stand people who don't want to do anything with themselves, whether it's now or later, but they want the government to give them things. It irritates the hell out of me.

I'm a full time student, that works, I have a daughter that will be 2 in May, but because I work and go to school and I'm still with her father, I don't get diddly squat. I don't get Medicaid so if I get sick, well I just have to suck it up. But people who sit there and won't try, but yet they get the fucking shit that I want but can't have because I don't want to be a lazy bum, yeah. It's extreme injustice and it's punishing the ones that want to do something with themselves and rewarding the lazy.

Toni - posted on 02/18/2011

See Mary for me medical assistance is essential services, I think it's disgusting that you guys have to pay for medical care in the first place.

Mary Renee - posted on 02/17/2011

As a person who currently receives assistance from the government in the form of health care, this is my story.



I live in the United States and became pregnant my senior year of college. I was/am not married and I was working as a waitress 30 hours a week and going to school full-time. I was able to graduate with honors and a 4.0 gpa ten days after my daughter was born.



None the less, when I was about 7 months pregnant, my managers at my waitressing job started to try to get me out of there. They knew I was a full-time student and HAD been since I started working there a year ago. So instead of firing me for being pregnant (which is illegal) they started putting me on the schedule 7 days a week, including on-call shifts that they knew interfered with my class schedule.



I ended up losing my waitressing job when I was 7 months pregnant, and the economy out here in Hawaii is so horrible. My degree is in journalism and two of our broadcast news stations just merged to one, and our two daily papers just merged to one, because there is no money and everyone - myself included - ended up losing internship and jobs.



As a result, myself and my daughter are on Med Quest - government paid health care. At first we both were on government health care, but then after the Obama Bill passed, my dad's health care picked me back up since I am under 26. My daughter still is on government paid health care, and I don't have to pay a penny out of pocket for her well-baby visits.



Some might say I'm abusing the system because I get assistance from her father, he is paying for our home and food and diapers. I don't feel this is so. I feel like it's a crying shame the way "healthcare" is in this country when it should be about helping people - not making the most money off of vulnerable people. You won't see me out there buying new stuff, we don't even have a crib. I want my daughter to be healthy. I'm physically and mentally able to work but right now the only jobs available don't even cover the cost of childcare. When she is older and childcare is less expensive, I'll be more actively seeking a job and take what ever kind of work I can find - but for now I'm going to cherish the time I have with her and enjoy my government assistance. Thanks government. You're the best. Haha.



So Layce, I understand what you're saying about people being physically or mentally unable to work. What about the 10% unemployment rate and the people that would like to work but can't find a job?

Lacye - posted on 02/17/2011

It depends on the situation. If the person is physically or mentally unable to work, then yeah, they deserve to have the assistance. If the person is working and still need the assistance, yeah, they deserve the help. If the person is sitting at home, is able to work but just doesn't want to, no, I don't think they should be able to have the assistance. It is their choice to stay home and in my opinion, they should be able to support that decision.