Abraham Lincoln

Sara - posted on 06/19/2009

Quoting Traci:

Can't we all just get along? LOL.... :)

Apparently not....

Sara - posted on 06/19/2009

Quoting Traci:

Can't we all just get along? LOL.... :)

Apparently not....

Tawny - posted on 06/18/2009

Did anyone read Christa's post about Keeping Our Emotions in Check. This will probably be my last time writing on the political debating group. Im sure some of you will be happy about this. ;o) But this is a political debate group not just a one side debate. If someone lets you know that a quote is wrong and that someone else wrote it because they are a historian so WHAT. She let us know that it was written by someone else. Why do we have to jump down everyones throat. No wonder none of the Obama Mamas want to join this group I don't blame them. Not every post but there has been some that ask a question and when someone from the other side makes a comment or disagrees, it's like it is World War III here. Like last week it is in the past get over it. Things were said and people have apologized but I feel that isn't enough. Iv'e been watching for the past week and have been biting my tongue and so now I can't hold it any longer. Im sorry to some of you I have nothing against anyone but I think that I would like to be in a group that has women who are acting like a grown up and maybe listen to someone elses opinion even if you don't agree. Im not saying that everyone is like this and Im sure some will think that Im targeting individuals. But I honestly really don't care. I have said my Sorrys and will say them again. We all need to get along....

Brenda - posted on 06/18/2009

Quoting Sara:

Quoting Brenda:

Quoting Joy:

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Joy, I'm sorry, but I have had my fill of you throwing your 'educated mind' around.  Yes, we all know you went to college and got a degree.  Heaven help the heathens who stayed home to raise a family!

Your response was so off from my last, it was amazing.  My POINT IS THIS:  Even if it wasn't Lincoln, the man that wrote it was a wise man and anyone worth their salt would study it and think about how to apply it in their lives... PERIOD!

And, just so you know, I had put this quote on my family blog with Lincoln's name and have since changed it because I believe HIGHLY that credit should be given where it's due.

You know, neither Joy nor I have EVER told you that you're stupid because you stay home and raise your children, or you're stupid because you didn't get this degree or whatever  That's totally unfair of you to say, Brenda.  Joy was making a very valid point, and isn't the point of ths discussion group for us to learn from one another and bring to the table our strengths and experience?  Joy is a professional historian, that is what she does.  She's not being pedantic, she's trying to SHARE. 

 

Here's a Abe Lincoln quote for you:

 

"All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind".

Sarah, I don't appreciate your 'holier than thou' tone as well.  I realize Joy is a PROFESSIONAL historian, and I have no issue with that.  She is being pedantic in the fact that she mentions it just about every time she posts.  I think for the most part, all of us who have been here for a while KNOW that already.  And more often then not, her tone is very condescending which I am sure I'm not the only one who notices.

And as far as you throwing the Abe Lincoln quote in my face, let me point out a few things.  "All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower WHEREVER the flower would grow in though and mind.( emphasis added)"  Well, that is exactly what I have done here in this forum, but unfortunately, the 'flower' will not grow because the 'ground' is infertile.

Christa - posted on 06/18/2009

Quoting Joy:

Christa I figured that was what you meant but I did not want to assume and I do have to admit that historians at least most of the ones I know we have a pet peeve about inaccurate information even the slightest information that may seem unimportant because we feel like everyone disregards the importance of our field of work and that few Americans care anymore about history. So we attempt to combat all the misinformation at every corner because first and foremost above my political ideals and personal opinions concerning the views you guys hold I do want history to thrive in this country and for Americans to have the accurate information in their hands. History is a passion not just a carreer for me so it is like a kick in the gut when I read something that is inaccurate even if in the context it may seem frivlous to you guys. It is just frustrating for people who work in the field of history and I only stated that I was a historian to get across that I was relaying facts not attempting to comment in a negative way about the opinion that Brenda was relaying and that you were agreeing with.

I totally get it!  I'm a microbiologist and my head about explodes every time I hear a story on the news.  It really is sad how often they do not know what they are talking about, even when it's their "science correspondent". :-)

Sara - posted on 06/18/2009

Quoting Brenda:

Quoting Joy:

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Joy, I'm sorry, but I have had my fill of you throwing your 'educated mind' around.  Yes, we all know you went to college and got a degree.  Heaven help the heathens who stayed home to raise a family!

Your response was so off from my last, it was amazing.  My POINT IS THIS:  Even if it wasn't Lincoln, the man that wrote it was a wise man and anyone worth their salt would study it and think about how to apply it in their lives... PERIOD!

And, just so you know, I had put this quote on my family blog with Lincoln's name and have since changed it because I believe HIGHLY that credit should be given where it's due.

You know, neither Joy nor I have EVER told you that you're stupid because you stay home and raise your children, or you're stupid because you didn't get this degree or whatever  That's totally unfair of you to say, Brenda.  Joy was making a very valid point, and isn't the point of ths discussion group for us to learn from one another and bring to the table our strengths and experience?  Joy is a professional historian, that is what she does.  She's not being pedantic, she's trying to SHARE. 

Here's a Abe Lincoln quote for you:

"All my life I have tried to pluck a thistle and plant a flower wherever the flower would grow in thought and mind".

JL - posted on 06/17/2009

Christa I figured that was what you meant but I did not want to assume and I do have to admit that historians at least most of the ones I know we have a pet peeve about inaccurate information even the slightest information that may seem unimportant because we feel like everyone disregards the importance of our field of work and that few Americans care anymore about history. So we attempt to combat all the misinformation at every corner because first and foremost above my political ideals and personal opinions concerning the views you guys hold I do want history to thrive in this country and for Americans to have the accurate information in their hands. History is a passion not just a carreer for me so it is like a kick in the gut when I read something that is inaccurate even if in the context it may seem frivlous to you guys. It is just frustrating for people who work in the field of history and I only stated that I was a historian to get across that I was relaying facts not attempting to comment in a negative way about the opinion that Brenda was relaying and that you were agreeing with.

Christa - posted on 06/17/2009

Quoting Joy:

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Joy I do appreciate you and Sara informing us who actually said it, I do think it's important to have the correct facts.  I just meant I don't care who said it because I think it is a very intelligent quote and regardless of who said it we should all learn from it.

JL - posted on 06/17/2009

I get you agree with the quote heck I think it is a great quote as well which is why really did not have much to say about it besides the fact that it was made by someone else, but yes I would think that it is my responsiblity as a professional historian to want people to know accurate information otherwise I would be a completely useless and horrible historian and would then have no place no matter what education I do or do not have to be working in the particular field of history.



I would want someone who knows about science or math which are areas I am sucky at informing me of correct information. SORRY that it seems to be so wrong to want to get historically accurate information out there but that is what historians do. How else is someone suppose know something is incorrect if someone who knows because they took years studying such a subject gets the information to those who have not. I am not throwing my educated mind at you sorry if that offends you but I am doing my job as a historian a job I bound myself to do when I decided to become a professional historian. I guess I should just sit back and let inaccurate historical information continue to become the foundation of others historical knowledge so that way I don't offend anyone and BTW I got an education while raising two children while my husband was gone at war on four seperate deployements. I took as many classes online as I could and stayed up all hours of the night so that I was at home with my kids.



I just wanted to let you know that the credit was wrong and how the inaccurate credit came about since that is what I do for a living but next time I will not do so but I welcome someone correcting me if I have misinformation.

Christa - posted on 06/17/2009

Quoting Joy:

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Joy I do appreciate you and Sara informing us who actually said it, I do think it's important to have the correct facts.  I just meant I don't care who said it because I think it is a very intelligent quote and regardless of who said it we should all learn from it.

Brenda - posted on 06/17/2009

Quoting Joy:

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Joy, I'm sorry, but I have had my fill of you throwing your 'educated mind' around.  Yes, we all know you went to college and got a degree.  Heaven help the heathens who stayed home to raise a family!

Your response was so off from my last, it was amazing.  My POINT IS THIS:  Even if it wasn't Lincoln, the man that wrote it was a wise man and anyone worth their salt would study it and think about how to apply it in their lives... PERIOD!

And, just so you know, I had put this quote on my family blog with Lincoln's name and have since changed it because I believe HIGHLY that credit should be given where it's due.

JL - posted on 06/17/2009

As a professional historian I care and to say who cares if people are misquoting historical facts is sad and represetative of why few in this nation actually take the time to understand and know our history as a nation. We should all take them time to know our history and give credit where it is due, otherwise we just continue to spread misinformation and others learn from those who perpetuate the spreading of inaccurate information. Far too many people in this nation know little about American history and when they read quotes that state something inaccurately they unfortunately take that as fact. I mean you read this statement as being accredited to Lincoln and then took it as fact just as many others have and the result is a chain of inaccurate historical facts that pervade the public knowledge of American history.

Brenda - posted on 06/17/2009

Quoting Christa:

I don't care who said it, It's a great quote!

I agree!  There is great wisdom in that statement, whether or not Abraham Lincoln said it.  Obama could definitely benefit from reading and pondering on it!

Christa - posted on 06/17/2009

I don't care who said it, It's a great quote!

JL - posted on 06/17/2009

Sorry I meant Lincoln on Limitations not Private property, but the ideas on limitations were about Lincoln's words concerning things like private property and prosperity and labor.

JL - posted on 06/17/2009

Sara is completely correct. As a historian of American history I can tell you that this is known as Boectcker's "ten cannots" not as a quote by Abraham Lincoln. If you look the quote up under historical sites and well known quotation sites it is credited to Boectcker not Lincoln. Boectcker wrote a pamphlet in which he added some of Lincoln's words to it and then titled it "Lincoln on Private Property" but the quote was Boectcker's ten cannots not Lincoln's and the pamphlet asserting these ideas was written and distributed by Boetcker not Lincoln.

Sara - posted on 06/17/2009

I'm sure Obama has seen that quote, but I'm also sure he knows that Lincoln did not say those things. They were written in 1916 by the Rev. William J. H. Boetcker, a Presbyterian clergyman and pamphlet writer. In 1942, a group called the Committee for Constitutional Government gave out a great many leaflets entitled "Lincoln on Limitations" that contained on one side a real Lincoln quote and on the other side the 10 Boetcker statements. Boetcker was credited with his statements on the leaflet, but their proximity in print to one real quote by Lincoln, plus the title of the leaflet, led people to think that Lincoln had said the ten listed statements. They were repeated in many printed sources, and are still regarded by many as authentic Lincoln quotes. Carl Sandburg, Lincoln's most famous biographer, dismissed them as spurious.