Arizona Lawsuit another Obama Waterloo

Diane - posted on 07/08/2010 ( 75 moms have responded )

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I just spent two weeks traveling through Europe (England, The Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, France). We were checked at every border and had to show documention. We had to carry our passports everywhere we went. Are the people in Europe racist?

I had the opportunity to talk to many people about what they think of the United States particularly what Obama is doing. We basically are a joke. Why? They can't figure out why we would elect a socialist a radical who will eventually destroy the very freedoms that we enjoy. This is more than just about health care...this is about raping the Constitution and all about taking the power away from WE THE PEOPLE. Everyone I talked to, and I mean EVERYONE, knew about Arizona and the problems we are facing. They knew about the oil spill in fact most Europeans know everything that's going on in our country. How can they see it and a large segment of our own population can't?


Governor Jan Brewer is doing something about it. She is standing up to these thugs.

She said,“Today I was notified that the federal government has filed a lawsuit against the State of Arizona. It is wrong that our own federal government is suing the people of Arizona for helping to enforce federal immigration law. As a direct result of failed and inconsistent federal enforcement, Arizona is under attack from violent Mexican drug and immigrant smuggling cartels. Now, Arizona is under attack in federal court from President Obama and his Department of Justice. Today's filing is nothing more than a massive waste of taxpayer funds. These funds could be better used against the violent Mexican cartels than the people of Arizona.

The truth is the Arizona law is both reasonable and constitutional. It mirrors substantially what has been federal law in the United States for many decades. Arizona’s law is designed to complement, not supplant, enforcement of federal immigration laws. Despite the Department of Justice’s claims in paragraph 62 of today’s lawsuit, Arizona is not trying ‘to establish its own immigration policy’ or ‘directly regulate the immigration status of aliens.’ Arizona Revised Statutes § 11-1051(E) states that the federal government, along with local law enforcement officers authorized by the federal government, can only determine an alien’s immigration status. Subsection (L) of that same section goes on to state that the law ‘shall be implemented in a manner consistent with federal laws regulating immigration.

The irony is that President Obama’s Administration has chosen to sue Arizona for helping to enforce federal immigration law and not sue local governments that have adopted a patchwork of ‘sanctuary’ policies that directly violate federal law. These patchwork local ‘sanctuary’ policies instruct the police not to cooperate with federal immigration officials.

The best thing government can do is to create a stable, predictable environment, governed by an easily understood set of rules or laws. We do not need to make this more complicated than it already is. We must first and foremost create a secure border. Enhanced trade, economic opportunity and freedom will surely follow.

I am pleased that President Obama and the Department of Justice did not pursue the baseless claims of illegal racial profiling in the lawsuit. When signing S.B. 1070, I said, ‘My signature today represents my steadfast support for enforcing the law — both against illegal immigration AND against racial profiling.’ Arizona’s law expressly prohibits unconstitutional racial profiling. However, words are not enough. For this reason, I ordered the Arizona Peace Officer Standards and Training Board (AZPOST) to develop training on the new law for Arizona’s police officers. AZPOST has completed the training course and has published it for the all world to see at http://www.azpost.state.az.us/SB1070info... . AZPOST has done its job professionally and served Arizona well.

I will not stop fighting to protect the citizens of Arizona, and to defend Arizonans in federal court. I have set up a legal defense fund to pay the substantial legal fees that Arizona has been, and will be, forced to incur as a result of all of these lawsuits. Contributions to the Border Security and Immigration Defense Fund can be made at http://www.keepazsafe.com/. My legal team will not hesitate to assert the rights of the State of Arizona in this matter. Arizona will ultimately prevail against the lawsuits – including this latest assault by the Obama Administration. Our laws will be found to be constitutional – because that is exactly what they are. Let me be clear, I will defend the rule of law all the way to the Supreme Court if necessary. I will continue to demand that the Federal government live up to its responsibility to control our Southern border and to protect our homeland. And, I will oppose the President’s amnesty plan.”

She is 100% right in what she says and the people of her state support her. The defense fund is growing and people are becoming more mad at Obamas lip service.

Brewer....“My meeting today with White House officials regarding our border was disappointing to say the least. The Obama administration is planning on sending more than double the amount of money to Mexico rather than fund our National Guard. At the end of the day, they agreed to phase-in a total of 524 National Guard troops h...ere in Arizona starting in August and remain at that number for 120 days. For Arizona and our country, I'm very disappointed.”



Obamas hilarious solution to the problems in Arizona….SIGNS.




This administration is a joke. It is not only incompetent but corrupt. From Acorn to Rahm Emmanuel, allowing numerous tax cheats such as Obama's Treasury Secretary to be a part of his administration, the fact that Obama allows countless exceptions to his campaign promise that lobbyists would not be a part of his administration. I guess the fact that his Deputy Secretary of Defense lobbied for a defense contracting firm does not count. His promise not to allow "earmarks" (pork projects) in spending bills. Yet his stimulus bill (costing taxpayers 1 trillion dollars oh and with interest) and the Obama Omnibus bill (costing Americans another 1/2 trillion dollars again with interest) had over 9,000 pork projects. He said, I will end this war and bring the troops home, yet this month more Americans were killed in conflicts in the Middle East than any other month since the war began.

As far as protecting us from foreign invaders.......he aids them and encourages them to do it. Now he wants NASA to encourage Muslims in science and math so that they feel better about themselves. He is a traitor and dangerous to our country.

I remember back when Barack was running for president, he pledged to have the most ethical administration in history. He makes Nixon look like Mother Teresa.

He should be in prison charged with domestic terrorism, for trying to destroy the US. He is a socialist that campaigned as a moderate. He is a Muslim that campaigned as a Christian. Everything he supports strengthens government and takes freedom away from the people.

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75 Comments

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Pamela - posted on 08/01/2010

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Crap! I can't get the bloody video I want! Darn you CNN! Darn you all to heck!

Pamela - posted on 08/01/2010

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I meant to do that. That's because illegal aliens are now skydiving into Arizona. Yeah. That's it. Like birds. Because the police are looking for them on the ground...yeah, that's it...and would never think to look up...or anything.

But it was interesting, wasn't it?:o)

Isobel - posted on 07/19/2010

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and when you are making laws, you can't go by "what would probably happen because the cop is probably a nice guy" You have to consider the worse case scenario for every law...and that is that now, cops have the right to arrest people for being brown (because being brown gives reasonable suspicion that you are breaking the law by being an illegal alien)

all you have to do to appear suspicious in Arizona is be Hispanic.

Iris - posted on 07/19/2010

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"But have you been stopped for doing something “suspicious”?

No I usually follow the laws."



Since when does "suspicious act" = "criminal act"?



"Bush is not president Obama is. Why bring him up?"



Because you brought him up right here:

"That is why for the last eight some years we have been begging Washington for help. Janet Napolitano when she was governor asked for help and never got it from Bush. And now that she has left Arizona, *thank you God".....you would think she would help."



"Obama promised Jan Brewer. He said he would send troops…….(just heard on news some might be coming)"



Maybe we can agree that President Obama has actually done more about the border control then President Bush ever did?

Diane - posted on 07/19/2010

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But have you been stopped for doing something “suspicious”?
No I usually follow the laws.

“But now we are going to blame it all on President Obama? It has been going on for more than eight years and believe it or not, I do agree that something has to be done. The way they have been doing things lately, I just don’t agree with.”

Obama promised Jan Brewer. He said he would send troops…….(just heard on news some might be coming) he also said he would end the war. This was his big promise to Americans.

“Yes, of course it’s President Obama’s fault, he needs those votes right?
So what’s Bush’s excuse for not doing anything at ALL?”

Bush is not president Obama is. Why bring him up? Clinton did nothing to secure the border either. In fact he pardoned Puerto Rican terrorists to make Puerto Ricans happy in New York,…Hilary was running and wanted the vote from that group.
And yes he needs every vote he can muster come November. I would say right now they are in trouble.

Krista said, “Basically, this will result in all Arizonans of Hispanic ethnicity avoiding cops like the plague. It could also lead to a "driving while Mexican" syndrome, where a cop will stop someone for going 3 mph over the limit, because the driver appears to be Hispanic, whereas if the driver was white, they wouldn't have even flashed warning lights.”

You just do not get it. How can they avoid Hispanics???? Do you not know the ethnic make up of Arizona? You are paranoid and looking for reasons to not like this law. You are essentially saying that all our police are racist.

“I'm only 15, so I don't have a driver's license. So he arrests me.”
Right……this would not happen most likely. He would probably chew her out for jaywalking because it is dangerous. Then he would probably escort her to school and take her to the office, where they could defend her citizenship.
Now if she became hostille and mouthy and led them to believe things were not what they seem...then they should if the evidence shows it....arrest her.

You have no idea about Arizona or its police or its citizens…that is why you say what you do. You do not get the problem.

Krista - posted on 07/19/2010

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I think that's the crux of the problem. How do you define "suspicious"?

Here is part of the text of the actual law, along with my comments:

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

So the two key things in here are "lawful contact" and "reasonable suspicion".

First of all, Arizona amended the bill. It used to say "lawful contact", which was problematic. Because if I pass a cop on the street and say hi and he says hi back, then technically, lawful contact has been established and he would then have the right to start questioning me. So it now reads “lawful stop, detention or arrest.” In an explanatory note, lawmakers added that the change “stipulates that a lawful stop, detention or arrest must be in the enforcement of any other law or ordinance of a county, city or town or this state.” So that IS an improvement.

However, the other issue is with the term "reasonable suspicion". What, exactly, constitutes reasonable suspicion that the person is an illegal alien? What visible characteristics differentiate an illegal alien from a legal resident or citizen? Is it the way they talk? The way that they walk? How they look? There is NO reliable way to immediately differentiate an illegal alien on sight from a citizen. In Arizona, the overwhelming majority of illegal aliens are Mexican. So, because of this, it is only logical that the only external factor that would give a cop "reasonable suspicion" is the person's ethnicity. This means that anybody who appears to be Mexican, if they're stopped for speeding or a parking ticket, or for jaywalking, or even if they're asked questions about a crime that they may have witnessed, then they will HAVE to have their proof of citizenship upon them.

Basically, this will result in all Arizonans of Hispanic ethnicity avoiding cops like the plague. It could also lead to a "driving while Mexican" syndrome, where a cop will stop someone for going 3 mph over the limit, because the driver appears to be Hispanic, whereas if the driver was white, they wouldn't have even flashed warning lights.

And this one is what really rang my alarm bells:

37 E. A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER, WITHOUT A WARRANT, MAY ARREST A PERSON IF THE OFFICER HAS PROBABLE CAUSE TO BELIEVE THAT THE PERSON HAS COMMITTED ANY PUBLIC OFFENSE THAT MAKES THE PERSON REMOVABLE FROM THE UNITED STATES.

Isn't being an illegal alien an offense that makes the person removable from the United States? If so, this part of the law means that a cop can arrest, without a warrant, someone who they suspect of being an illegal alien.

So let's say I'm a 15-year-old girl of Hispanic descent but was born in the U.S. I'm late for school, and dart across the street instead of waiting at the crosswalk. A cop approaches me and tells me I was jaywalking and asks for proof of my citizenship. I'm only 15, so I don't have a driver's license. So he arrests me.

On what planet could ANYBODY think that this is not a complete violation of civil liberties?

Iris - posted on 07/19/2010

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“How is that fair to me? Why should I be stopped at all. Didn't you say that American should have open borders. That is what has been suggested by many people here.

That really is being racist to me isn't it? And what possible reason could they have for stopping me? Of course I am playing devils advocate here...”



Diane, I can think for myself and I’ve never said that the borders should be open for everyone. I do believe that if your country has a border control then they should be controlling the borders to their standard. What I do not agree with is a random check on people specially if it is defined by their race and I’m not talking about at the borders, but in their communities.



“But if he did something suspicious of course you can see why they would ask him right? Or do you think Germany is wrong as well?”



Suspicious? Could you clarify that a little? I can see that if he had done some criminal act that he should be charged and sent back to his country. But if he’s just walking the dog and a woman who is afraid of an African American accuses him to following her because he’s walking the same route then NO!



“I take my purse with me where ever I go. I have been stopped by the police for speeding.....and yes I have been known to break the law a few times....I did not have my drivers license on me. He wrote me up and I had to produce it within so many days.”



But have you been stopped for doing something “suspicious”?



“The problem is...we do not have people along our entire border to help ask for documentation so they are coming over by the thousands. That is why for the last eight some years we have been begging Washington for help. Janet Napolitano when she was governor asked for help and never got it from Bush.”



But now we are going to blame it all on President Obama? It has been going on for more than eight years and believe it or not, I do agree that something has to be done. The way they have been doing things lately, I just don’t agree with.



“And now that she has left Arizona, *thank you God".....you would think she would help. But no she has not and I am convinced it is because of Obama. He needs Hispanic votes this November. And while he probably won't get those votes from Arizona...he will from Hispanics all over the country who do not get it and do not care.”



Yes, of course it’s President Obama’s fault, he needs those votes right?

So what’s Bush’s excuse for not doing anything at ALL?

Diane - posted on 07/18/2010

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"Well, this is exactly why I asked to begin with how you traveled. If you are driving a rental car through Europe then you are rarely stopped at the borders. Europeans, because of EU can go to any EU country without being checked for passports."

How is that fair to me? Why should I be stopped at all. Didn't you say that American should have open borders. That is what has been suggested by many people here.
That really is being racist to me isn't it? And what possible reason could they have for stopping me? Of course I am playing devils advocate here...


"But also while we lived in Germany, my husband (American citizen) could travel between the borders without showing his passport but we took it with us just in case."

But if he did something suspicious of course you can see why they would ask him right? Or do you think Germany is wrong as well?

"I can understand and agree that on the borders of Canada/USA and USA/Mexico, you should have to show your passport. What most of us have problem with is stopping people on the streets and asking them for documentation. I for one wouldn't want to have to take such document with me every time I leave the house."

I take my purse with me where ever I go. I have been stopped by the police for speeding.....and yes I have been known to break the law a few times....I did not have my drivers license on me. He wrote me up and I had to produce it within so many days.


"It just sounds so much like a Gestapo stunt that it makes my skin crawl. But at the borders, sure I agree with showing passports."

It is not that way at all in Arizona. We live in a state with a large population of Hispanics and Indians...so many people are of color. Our police force reflects that because like I said...a great many officers on the streets are Hispanic and Indian men and women.
The problem is...we do not have people along our entire border to help ask for documentation so they are coming over by the thousands. That is why for the last eight some years we have been begging Washington for help. Janet Napolitano when she was governor asked for help and never got it from Bush. And now that she has left Arizona, *thank you God".....you would think she would help. But no she has not and I am convinced it is because of Obama. He needs Hispanic votes this November. And while he probably won't get those votes from Arizona...he will from Hispanics all over the country who do not get it and do not care.

Iris - posted on 07/18/2010

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"Tell me do ya need a passport to travel outside the United States, say to MEXICO?………….When I go to Mexio they certainly ask for documentation. They even check inside my luggage sometimes. Now that is racist and I know you would all agree. They asked me in Paris, Germany and London airports. Those racists. So much for being nice people.



Who here could go to Europe without a passport? IF they are so open and trusting of everyone, why require anything?



And sometimes at the border I am even asked for documentation going into Canada….. now can you believe that? Racists...don't they know who I am? LOL"



Well, this is exactly why I asked to begin with how you traveled. If you are driving a rental car through Europe then you are rarely stopped at the borders. Europeans, because of EU can go to any EU country without being checked for passports. But also while we lived in Germany, my husband (American citizen) could travel between the borders without showing his passport but we took it with us just in case.



I can understand and agree that on the borders of Canada/USA and USA/Mexico, you should have to show your passport. What most of us have problem with is stopping people on the streets and asking them for documentation. I for one wouldn't want to have to take such document with me every time I leave the house. It just sounds so much like a Gestapo stunt that it makes my skin crawl. But at the borders, sure I agree with showing passports.

Diane - posted on 07/18/2010

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“The law in Arizona requires that EVERYBODY carry their proof of citizenship with them at ALL times...that legal immigrants show papers at any given moment without any provocation...that's the difference.”

Not so. The police must have reason to stop you. Our police God love them have taken so much abuse from people…mostly out of the state. Most people do not realize how many Hispanics we have in law enforcement. There are racists on every police force I am not denying that that is not true. But our police do not go around asking anyone for documentation….. ONLY IF THERE IS REASON TO SUSPECT THAT..THAT PERSON HAS BROKEN THE LAW. We believe in this law. And obviously other states do to because they are supporting us and following in our footsteps. Michigan just did last week…and they are a Democratic leaning state.

“let's pretend that the IRA has been blowing up bombs in New York (for some reason I don't know why)...should ALL redheads and people with fair skin be pulled over while driving on their way to work? Would it be fair and constitutional to demand to see their proof of identification in front of all their neighbors and friends as they drop their children off to school? To demand that they open their book bags at school in front of their professors and fellow classmates?”

HECK YES. Stop every redhead….brunettes with red streaks…blondes with red highlights. If someone is bombing buildings and there is any thread to anyone…then no one should care if they are not doing something illegal themselves……..to be stopped and asked. What is the matter with you? Are you that spastic over being stopped? For crying out loud…….to catch someone who might kill innocent people?????????????

Anything that puts criminals away…is fine with me. And anyone who thinks this is wrong……..IMO doesn’t give a rats behind about anyone but themselves.

We need to help the police do their jobs.

Let me ask you this. In your city there is a male pedophile who is Asian/American. Who should the police stop? How do the police do their jobs…if they do not profile and look for the person who FITS THE DESCRIPTION? I can see you if the police questioned you at a crime scene. “Well officers I can’t tell you the ethnicity because I don’t want you to stop them unfairly.” You want to protect the criminal.

“You keep insisting that this law ONLY affects ILLEGAL immigrants...but it doesn't, it affects ALL people with brownish skin. Because their ethnicity is THE ONLY valid reason to suspect that they are illegal immigrants...does it make sense yet?”

The brown people for the most part in my state who are LEGAL DO NOT CARE. We do not have protests anywhere from any groups who think this is wrong. We did when Jesse Jackson came…and made a big deal about it…but nothing now.

“MANY of us on here have told you that we are not huge fans...I don't know why you keep talking to us like we worship him.”

You’re kidding me aren’t you? Who has even so much as criticized Obama here? In all the months I have been on here I have never heard one word against any policy or statement he has ever made. NOT ONE. And I never ever have said he was the Messiah. I said a lot of people including his own camp think he is the Messiah.

Cathy….yes I was very aware because many of my friends kids were over there. But Obama made those promises a few months before he won. He also kept making promises after office . This is his baby now…as is the economy. Obama owns them both and he is realizing that the tide has turned on him. Bush I am sure came to the same realization as well.

Separate wars…..whatever you want to call it. He has yet to bring troops home except to rest and return. He has sent more and more. He has no intentions of ending the war or bring troops home. Well I will make one prediction…..he will start bring a FEW SELECT ONES HOME RIGHT BEFORE THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION. He will do this for purely political reasons and to get elected.


Krista E said, “For we Canadians, 9/11 was like some jerk sucker-punching our best friend in a bar. It was obviously only fair and right for us to jump in to the fray and defend our buddy.”

But why defend something you always thought was wrong? Why get sucked in? And are you saying that we deserted you over there?

http://icasualties.org/

You said, “However, all of a sudden, while in the midst of getting our asses kicked, we looked over our shoulder and realized that our best friend was nowhere to be seen. Instead, he was over at the bar across the street, picking a fight with some biker. “

Based on these statistics how did we leave anyone alone?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_and_...

How many have you sent over there? How many have died?

How big is your army? Less than 35,000.


You make is sound like we left thousands of men alone and stranded. This was not the case I’m sorry.

Ya know what this is ridiculous…..because I am a liar, I only hear what I want to hear……….I mean this is hilarious…CathyS. I did not say every person in Europe hates Obama. I did not talk to thousands or millions of people. I do not know that many in Europe like you and Iris do. But you know it all don’t ya? I am lying…………LOL. i talked to no one that disliked Obama. LOL

I wasn’t asked my passport at the airport LOL……no I didn’t need to take my passport at all. lol

Tell me do ya need a passport to travel outside the United States, say to MEXICO?………….When I go to Mexio they certainly ask for documentation. They even check inside my luggage sometimes. Now that is racist and I know you would all agree. They asked me in Paris, Germany and London airports. Those racists. So much for being nice people.

Who here could go to Europe without a passport? IF they are so open and trusting of everyone, why require anything?

And sometimes at the border I am even asked for documentation going into Canada….. now can you believe that? Racists...don't they know who I am? LOL

And I will say this as well. If they like Obama then that really says something about them. And I really could care less what country likes Obama. Obama cares more about doing for others than he does his own homeland. He is a fanny kisser. Every time he travels abroad he apologizes for us. He is dangerous….just like Martin Luther King’s niece said on Fox this week. I want someone in office who puts us first. Does Obama do that? LMAO

Isobel - posted on 07/17/2010

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I don't think anybody accused Diane of fibbing...just saying that their experiences have varied greatly...that doesn't mean that anyone is lying.

Pamela - posted on 07/17/2010

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From what I understand, a huge percentage of Europeans were appalled by the Bush Administration policies. Bush was much more "my way or the highway" which puts something of a pall on diplomacy. In 2004, there was a website where thousands of young Americans were literally apologizing to the world for letting Bush get re-elected. Of course Kerry was the only other option;(

Obama has had a much better stance in dealing with other countries. He's been far more diplomatic in his intercourse with them. I think this is a far better path than telling other sovereign nations how things are going to be. We must work with other countries respectfully - the Bush administration was not known for this.

What kind of tour group were you with Diane (this is not an antagonistic question by the way - I'm just curious). My husband has traveled throughout Europe extensively (and into Morocco and India - as well as Central America). I'm sadly much more stateside. I would love to travel the UK and Europe.

Iris - posted on 07/17/2010

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Diana, you are absolutely right. I am sorry for getting riled up. Your experience is yours and if ALL the people you talked to agreed with you on your political views regarding USA I can't absolutely claim that you are fibbing, because I wasn't there. I guess you managed to stumble up on some of those 16% that do agree with you at the pubs in London.



Michelle - I have lived in 4 different Countries over Europe and have friends and families in at least 8 different European Countries, all of them supporting President Obama (the friend and families). He makes mistakes but they see him as a much better choice then President Bush was. But I guess that me and you run in different circles.

Cathy - posted on 07/17/2010

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I'm British and know hundreds of British families. My In-Laws live in Spain and interact with numerous families with who come from all over Europe.

Obviously there are a few who feel the way that Diane has expressed BUT they are not the majority. Maybe she only heard the parts she wanted to hear.

Michelle - posted on 07/17/2010

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I am not PRIVILEGED enough to have been able to afford to travel to Europe yet, so I have to go on what my parents, who have said.

Michelle - posted on 07/17/2010

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Well it would appear that everyone has different stories about how thing happen in Europe. My parents spent 2 weeks traveling throughout Germany and Switzerland, they always had their passports on them and theirs were check on numerous occasions. I also have the privileged of knowing a couple of families from Germany and their thoughts on President Obama are in align with what Diane is saying she heard throughout her visit there. SO it is POSSIBLE that maybe she is NOT fibbing. It is POSSIBLE that in European countries there are people there who DO in fact think Obama is moron... Just saying.

Cathy - posted on 07/17/2010

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On the subject of passports, I didn't have to show my passport when I arrived in Spain earlier in the year. It was late so I think the passport control people had gone home to bed!

Pamela - posted on 07/16/2010

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Has any of you seen the tee-shirt that has a picture of four Native American's holding their rifles with the caption underneath "Fighting Terrorism Since 1492"?

Pamela - posted on 07/16/2010

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I want Elizabeth Warren to run for President. I would totally vote for her.

Krista - posted on 07/16/2010

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That's exactly right, Cathy.

I tend to use this analogy:

For we Canadians, 9/11 was like some jerk sucker-punching our best friend in a bar. It was obviously only fair and right for us to jump in to the fray and defend our buddy.

However, all of a sudden, while in the midst of getting our asses kicked, we looked over our shoulder and realized that our best friend was nowhere to be seen. Instead, he was over at the bar across the street, picking a fight with some biker.

So from our point of view, we're saying to our best friend, "WTF are you DOING?!?! Get your ass back here and help me finish this fight!"

Cathy - posted on 07/16/2010

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Diane

Are you aware of the state that Afghanistan was left in when Bush decided to put the full force of US forces into an illegal invasion of Iraq?

Afghanistan and Iraq are two different wars and should NEVER be lumped together as one. There is NO war on the Middle East. Separate countries and should be viewed as accordingly.

The war in Afghanistan started as a direct result of an attack on US soil. Have you forgotten the terrorist attacks on 9/11?

Al Qaeda was using Afghanistan as a safe haven for it's terrorist activities. NATO had to give backing to bring down the perpetrators because "an attack on any member state is considered an attack on all". They went in and ousted the Taliban from power and instead of sticking around to help the country rebuild a government and provide peace keeping support, they went off to invade Iraq. It was an illegal attack. Iraq attacked no one. NATO were left to pick up the pieces of a broken Afghanistan. The Taliban didn't go away. Without sufficient troops to oversee a democratic government, they have resurfaced. With the country in tatters, more young people disillusioned with Western powers are joining Al-Qaedas terrorist regime. Obama is sending troops back there to try and improve stability in the region. Without it, there will only be a repeat of 9/11, or the 7/7 attacks on London. Complete withdrawal without trying to fix the mess would be a disaster.

Isobel - posted on 07/16/2010

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The law in Arizona requires that EVERYBODY carry their proof of citizenship with them at ALL times...that legal immigrants show papers at any given moment without any provocation...that's the difference.

I believe that I have tried this before but let's try pretending for just a moment...

let's pretend that the IRA has been blowing up bombs in New York (for some reason I don't know why)...should ALL redheads and people with fair skin be pulled over while driving on their way to work? Would it be fair and constitutional to demand to see their proof of identification in front of all their neighbours and friends as they drop their children off to school? To demand that they open their book bags at school in front of their professors and fellow classmates?

You keep insisting that this law ONLY affects ILLEGAL immigrants...but it doesn't, it affects ALL people with brownish skin. Because their ethnicity is THE ONLY valid reason to suspect that they are illegal immigrants...does it make sense yet?

And on Obama:

MANY of us on here have told you that we are not huge fans...I don't know why you keep talking to us like we worship him.

You are right, he has failed to come through on A LOT of his promises, just because we don't believe that he is a socialist, a Muslim, born in Kenya...or any of the other conspiracy theorist plots, doesn't mean that we think he is the messiah...please think of who you are talking to and stop addressing your posts to the fringe leftists who are clearly not represented in this group.

Diane - posted on 07/16/2010

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Cathy,
Are you aware of the promises that Obama made to get elected regarding the war. He is not trying to end it or withdraw troops. He is sending more and more troops over to the Middle East. He promised to immediately end the war and bring our men and women home. In November it will be two years that he has been in office. More soldiers are killed today, then when Bush was in office. Today this is not the Bush war…its Obama’s and he ownes it and could stop it.... he has escalated it. In a sense his administration is no different than Bushes. He transferred troops from Iraq to Afghanistan; he sent an additional some thirty thousand more over there. This war will not end, not now or in the future. He had no intention of stopping it.

Obama said, "We are bringing the Iraq war to a responsible end." And he also in a speech made it clear that hes prepared to even widen the war into Pakistan.
He said,"Our security is at stake in Afghanistan and Pakistan."
He told cadets at West Point, "The struggle against violent extremism will not be finished quickly, and it extends WELL BEYOND Afghanistan and Pakistan."
Barrack Obama once described the war as one that "should never have been authorized and never been waged". On February 27, as president, Obama saw it differently. He told US troops at Camp Lejeune, a Marine Corps base in North Carolina: "You have fought against tyranny and disorder. You have bled for your best friends and for unknown Iraqis….”
This is an excellent video that shows his failed policy and promise to end the war.
He said combat troops out within sixteen months…once he took office. We will not have permanent bases there.
http://article.wn.com/view/2009/03/05/ge...

On passports.
The tour we were on required that we have them on us at all times. When we flew the few times from country to country…we were required to show them at the airport and we did just that. When we were on a bus trip once we were stopped at the border station and the police did look at some passports not all. That is the truth and that was my experience. I was never asked for my passport any place else. The thing is.. had I caused a problem or broken the law that would sought the attention of the police…would I have been asked for documentation? The same thing with Arizona. The police can’t stop you just to ask for your passport they must have good reason.

Krista - posted on 07/16/2010

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Yeah, when I went to France, Belgium and Holland, we took the train between countries, and not once were we asked for our passports, either when crossing borders or when buying our tickets. I could see maybe being asked if you were DRIVING, probably due to import regulations or to make sure you didn't have a trunk full of contraband. But it obviously wasn't a citizenship thing, or they'd be asking everybody. And not once was I asked about my citizenship while in Europe (and the immigration problems in France and Holland are nothing to sneeze at).

Isobel - posted on 07/16/2010

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I just got home from Europe too...and I slept over the border from France to Italy and back...once I kept my passport in my pocket, and once the conductor took it just in case he had to show it at the border...and when I checked it later...no stamp, huh. It's amazing how two people can have such different experiences (though, we WERE in different places)

Showing your passport at a border is not the same, however, as being expected to carry it EVERYWHERE...I locked mine up in a safe as soon as we reached our hotels...but that's just me I suppose. I wouldn't go to a country that required me to carry them EVERYWHERE...that's a police state and it's scary.

Cathy - posted on 07/15/2010

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Switzerland is independent but England is a EU country.

Yes, in England we want Obama to pull troops out of Iraq because it was an illegal war led by Bush. We do however realise that this has to be done slowly to prevent instability within that country.

Diane - posted on 07/15/2010

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Oh I am sorry Iris I forgot the question. We went by plane, train and bus. We did not rent private cars.
We Iris all i can tell you is what I experienced. I went to England, Amsterdam, Germany, Switzerland and France. We basically talked to people in London pubs and those in Switzerland. Of course they are not in the EU and are very independent.
How can you say that I am fibbing? The majority of the people I talked to do not support Obama and wonder why the heck he has not made right about stopping the war. More than a few said it was only to get elected. They feel if Obama brought troops home other countries would follow. Obama lied, they can even see that. I am not talking of course about the politicians of the country. I could not watch the news because I do not speak the language. I talked to the townspeople.
Even the owners of the hotel we stayed at in Switzerland was appalled at the spending spree by Obama.
That is what i am going on.
And I am not fibbing.

Iris - posted on 07/15/2010

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Since my question was never answered by Diane, I'll ask again: What type of transportation were you using in Europe?

I lived for 5 years in Germany and in all that time we were asked ONCE for passports going into France. We lived close to the border and I went to France at least 50 times because I went to shop at a store there for fresh fish every month. We went 7 times to Denmark because my brother lives there and we were never stopped for passports. 6 times to Austria, and never asked for passports. 5 times to Italy and never asked for passports. And I don't remember how many to Luxembourg and never asked for passports.... oh, and twice to Netherlands and never asked for passport!

I am from over there and I know from watching the news and talking to my friends and family in Europe (pretty much scattered all over) that when you say that people over there consider Obama to be a joke, you are telling a fib.
The majority in Europe support Obama and no matter what you try to tell me, I'll tell you this.. I can read the Icelandic, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish news without a problem and I can get through the German and the UK news too. France, Spain, Italian ect. we get that through our news network so I know whats going on and where Europe's majority stands by Obama.

LaCi - posted on 07/14/2010

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I totally have the same vile mouth in front of my kid as I have vile fingers on the computer. I'm actually surprised his first words weren't fuck and god dammit. He only has two rules with language *dont say it in front of your grandma* and *don't say it in front of your teachers*. Same rules I had ;) Another topic, but I like that topic way more.

~Jennifer - posted on 07/14/2010

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What's wrong, Diane? Your virgin ears never heard the word "fuck" before?



I was being serious - go out and DO something about it rather than sit on your computer and WHINE about the injustice of it all. I believe the term for that these days is "Slacktivist":







So -if all YOU'VE got is "omigoshshesaidanastyword" and comments about what I say in front of my kids as your retort......why bother at all?



(Now use your imagination and try to think about what I'm saying in front of my kids about you.)

;)

Krista - posted on 07/14/2010

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Well, if the polls are indicative of whether or not a president is a moron, then St. Ronald Reagan must have been an utter dolt. At a similar point in his first term, his approval rating was actually lower than what Obama's is now.

Not that I'm saying Reagan was a dolt -- but it just goes to show that approval ratings and polls are a very unreliable indicator of a president's overall success and achievements.

Diane - posted on 07/14/2010

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Is that all you've got Jenn?

Man oh man do you have a vile mouth.

Do you talk that way in front of your children?

No don't answer that.

Your attitude about our dangerous situation in Arizona mirrors Obama....he does not care either. He is humiliated that now his back is against the wall and he must act. Our law mirrors what the national law is only we want it enforced.
It is sad that there are sanctuary cities that are illegal all over the country and nothing is done about them. We try to do something about the problem...because Washington has failed to act...and we get sued.

Obama is a moron and the polls show it.

Pamela - posted on 07/11/2010

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Whoa Diane, you're right in the scary corridor aren't you? Well if I lived where you lived, I just might have a different opinion. I'm in Minnesota where the only illegal immigrants coming over the border are Canadian bears. They're not nearly as vicious as the drug cartels. They just want camper's peanut butter and beer.

Michelle - everybody has to be right sometimes:o)

Michelle - posted on 07/11/2010

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Pam, I wasn't trying to be right, but I am glad I am:)

~Jennifer - posted on 07/11/2010

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Diane .....why not just get a good rifle and pick the fuckers off as they drive by?



;)

Diane - posted on 07/11/2010

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i live in Chandler which is fifteen miles south of Phoenix towards Tucson. I live four miles from I10 ...the main road that the illegals travel on when they come over the border. It's the road that most illegals are apprehended on by police.

Lets see if he makes good on his promise...as I said so far he has not.

Pamela - posted on 07/10/2010

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Here's what my friend whose husband is in the National Air Guard said when I asked her the definition and number of "troops":



"Individual soldiers, a group would be a unit, platoon, batallion or regiment. Hope that's clear as mud LOL."



So looks like you're correct on that Michelle. Doggonit:o)

Pamela - posted on 07/10/2010

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According to what I've read, they're being sent down in August. What part of Arizona do you live in Diane? Are you in Phoenix?

Diane - posted on 07/10/2010

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It is funny that in the lawsuit nothing is mentioned that it is racist. Obama initially said it was, but you notice they do not touch on it in the suit. Why? Why not make it a part of it, if indeed its all about racism. Because the Administration and lawyers for them know they cant win on this angle. It is not racist, as it mirrors federal law. If Arizona law is racist then so is the national one.
The article said, “Depending on your point of view, Arizona's new law is a national model or a national disgrace.” It is a model because it mirrors what we already have as law. The hoopla around it only embarrasses Washington and the fact that Obama has his head somewhere else. He is incompetent ….that may be why he has so many Czars surrounding him because he can’t figure out United States law. That might also be why he won’t release his academic files…they probably were dismal. He can’t think for himself and won’t go anywhere there is not a teleprompter with a speech already written.

What is a disgrace is his lack of concern for what is going on with the borders. He has the responsibility to make sure we are safe. He is endangering our National Security. He is our sole representative in foreign affairs. He is undermining our sovereignty and our security. The Constitution requires the president as chief executive to, take care that the laws be faithfully executed. Is he doing that? NO. It’s in his job description that he is in charge of our military, law enforcement and administration.

The Article said, "Arizona is a land of possibilities," says Marshall Vest, an economist with the Eller College of Management at the University of Arizona in Tucson. "It's a place where a man can take his family in hopes of making a better life. That has been true all the way back to the 1800s."


It is a land of opportunity if you want to take some risks. Phoenix does boast in being the second largest kidnapping city in the world behind Mexico City. People can come here for a better life….just do not go into some downtown Phoenix and surrounding areas or drive south of Tucson towards Nogales and Yuma…..you might be in the range of drug cartels. It is not safe…remember Obamas signs. LOL

So if someone gives you farm or ranch land in southern Arizona….good luck.

The thing is our law makes sense. Maybe that’s why more than ten other states are looking into one of their own. Our immigration reform is gaining allies.

You say that that Obama has sent troops here…….where are they then? Your article was written in May………..LOL The article says……TO SEND. ….which means in the future. His future might be two years from now for crying out loud. He has done squat.

Diane - posted on 07/10/2010

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There are unmanned cameras along the border. So if there were troops on the border they could get the ones coming between the check out points.

Obama has not kept to his promises. He has a underlying disrespect for our state because his back is against the wall we pointed out to the entire world how incompetent he really is. Brewer met with BO at the White House and promised her told Obama pledged that administration officials would come to Arizona within two weeks with details of plans to secure the border. That was June 17th. He made a commitment which to this day he did not keep. Instead he declare war on our state.

Michelle - posted on 07/09/2010

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LOL on the speaking clearer language... I don't know a politician Right wing or Left that speaks clearly, without hidden messages and interpretations. Come on now, they are politicians, they get paid to lie. It is what they do best. I don't care what party they are part of. You show me one that tells the truth and I bet he/she is buried six feet under..

Michelle - posted on 07/09/2010

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Well to be honest at least if it was a war it would be one that was worth fighting. I am not saying lets run around killing illegal immigrants, however the vows a person takes upon joining the United States military include "that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic..." So it would actually stick to an oath that they made. Since the United States Constitution does declare illegal immigrants to be just that. Which is the whole reason for this mess in Arizona, because the federal government won't protect its own laws.

Pamela - posted on 07/09/2010

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Yeah, it would perhaps be a little much. But I wish they would use clearer language - like "we're sending 1200 soldiers" rather than saying "troops" because it looks like technically, a platoon is contained within a "troop" which would make for some extremely impressive numbers. We certainly don't need another war on our hands right now.

Michelle - posted on 07/09/2010

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Personally I think it is a play on words. He may very well be sending 36000 soldiers, but in all honesty it is probably more like 1200. He is to afraid to send 36000 soldiers because I can almost guarantee that sending that many would be seen as an act of war, by the Mexican Government. And who could blame them. If any country sent 36000 soldiers to our borders we would see it as an act of war.

Pamela - posted on 07/09/2010

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Oh I didn't at all feel like you were Michelle - I only googled the question about troop numbers. I'm not military or anything. Totally open to the possibility that I could actually be wrong:o)

You will never offend me by correcting an inaccuracy.

Checked out the link you gave - thanks!