Conservatizing the Bible?

Shelly - posted on 10/14/2009

And this is why I don't usually get involved in these religious debates because the have and have nots will never see eye to eye and when you combine religion and polotics you get the mess we have now!!!

Alison - posted on 10/08/2009

Why draw a line? The reason there are so many translations is because people might speak the same language, but have different ways of talking and different education levels. It's possible to use different words to say the same thing.

I own a few versions myself and I'm a member of the website from the link Jenny posted. Of course people will missuse and miss quote it to suit their own needs, but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy reading from more than one version. I still see this as a religious debate rather than a political one myself.

Most fundies have knowledge of the original text and we do our best to learn some of the original languages of the times/regions (not just Aramaic). I don't see the approved versions being so far translated that they will mean something different. Plus if they did, we would know about it.

Jenny - posted on 10/08/2009

I guess, to be devil's advocate, where do you draw the line at versions of the bible? There are so many now as it is. Here's a quick list http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/ Maybe there should have been no translations at all and if you want to read the bible you have to learn Aramaic. Actually that could have saved our society a lot of trouble I think.

Alison - posted on 10/08/2009

Quoting Alison:

I like the translations I already have.

There is a group on the net that puts fake Christian sites out there to stir up hatred. I'm not sure this is one of them. I'm not even sure if some people haven't got the wrong end of the stick. Sometimes conservative bible reading has less rules/religion that the regular stuff that most people know about.

I could be shooting myself in the foot with this answer because I havn't bothered to read the link properly. I'll go read it now and edit my post when I get back if I I've made a mistake.

The filters must be liberal. I know this because I had no problem accessing it.

OK it is real, but they are not proposing to change or add to the bible from what I have seen. It looks like they are planning an easy read KJ Version that has been the main translation in England since 1611. I'll stick by what I said. Sometimes a conservative study lead to less rules/religion and less division because people focus on what is important. Political ideals and the persuit of wealth tend to be ignored in my experience. How is that bad?

Plus not all of us are from North America. Conservative doesn't automatically mean republican/conservative elsewhere in the Christian world. A conservative English King James Version of the bible has nothing to do with the kind of conservatism that is known to North Americans. It's talking about conservative translation of scripture, not conservative politics for the most part.

Alison - posted on 10/08/2009

I like the translations I already have.

There is a group on the net that puts fake Christian sites out there to stir up hatred. I'm not sure this is one of them. I'm not even sure if some people haven't got the wrong end of the stick. Sometimes conservative bible reading has less rules/religion that the regular stuff that most people know about.

I could be shooting myself in the foot with this answer because I havn't bothered to read the link properly. I'll go read it now and edit my post when I get back if I I've made a mistake.

Amie - posted on 10/08/2009

Shelly that's why my OP says FAR RIGHT republican project.

Shelly - posted on 10/08/2009

I am a Christian and yea there is alot I would love to black out in the Bible to make me feel better!!! BUT if I did that and if that is what they are doing then they are not true believers in Gods word. Any Christian will tell you that the Bible is the true word of God and by changing it you are saying that you don't believe what God is telling you is true. Just like these religions that add to it or us thier own books claiming that it''s lost books of the bible don't believe that the bible is Gods word. Yes the argument of translation is always brought up but if you are a believer then you tust that the Lords not going to allow His word to be defiled in translation. So for all of you that want to jump on the band wagon of oh thoughs right wing nuts no not all of us are that radicul or stupid or any thing else you want to lump us into.

Tawny - posted on 10/07/2009

So I would like to know why is it that it seems like everyone wants to change everything from the Bible to the Constitution of the United States. These were from many years ago and need to be left alone. We are going to be in a world of hurt if too many people get involved. Personally I don't think it is okay to change the bible or change the constitution there is already a so called mormon book that they call their Bible and I will not go any further with that it will just make trouble and start fights. Of course what ever I say won't matter to any one here, because we all have our own different beliefs .....

Natalie - posted on 10/07/2009

That's interesting... a primary reason that many Christians have for rejecting Mormonism as a sect of Christianity is because the Bible statesthat it is the ONLY Holy Book handed down by God. The scripture is Galations 1:8-9. I'd say this scripture also pretty firmly disallows "re-translation" to suit the needs of any group.

Seriously though, it's so bastardized already, what's another blatant contradiction or two in there going to hurt?

Isobel - posted on 10/07/2009

I think that if the Bible were changed (again), we would see the birth of a yet another new Christian sect, most would continue to follow the old one, conservatives would basically have a new religion, similar to mormons who are essentially Christians but follow the book of Mormon.

Johnny - posted on 10/06/2009

Well, virtually all the Christians I know, especially at the Christian mission where I worked, would be horrified by this. There are plenty of liberal, open-minded Christians who follow the bible, they just happen to interpret the word differently than the conservative followers of the bible. I think that to say the bible is inherently conservative is putting a political slant on what is to followers the word of God. And I could see the ranks of Christians shrinking a heck of a lot in this country if they were forced to follow a new "conservative" bible. I certainly can't see the Catholic church picking it up.

I agree that the bible has been translated so many times that it's original meaning is lost, which is why I do not follow it and could care less what people do to it. Changing it does not affect MY beliefs in any way. But I have great respect and care for many Christians who I feel would be terribly disturbed by someone taking their holy book and politicizing it to suit their own agenda.

Besides, changing the bible to suit your political stance has already been done, by the Communist Chinese government. Conservative Christians went nuts about that, and now they plan to do it themselves. How incredibly hypocritical and self-serving. I can not respect that sort of attitude in the least.

Tawny - posted on 10/06/2009

I think that they need to leave it alone, who knows if they translated it right... everyone can read a scripture and interpret it differently.. that is why you have to study the bible (if your a bible reader) ;) When you start changing things it usually never comes out right...

ME - posted on 10/06/2009

I heard about this today! I can't believe they are trying to do it...actually, nothing shocks me anymore!

Christa - posted on 10/06/2009

I'm usually an understanding person. :-P On most things I can understand why a person would feel a certain way, though I don't agree. There are a few topics still that blow my mind though. ;-P

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2009

just understanding why we might think that is more than I hoped for.

Christa - posted on 10/06/2009

I understand why you and others feel that way of the bible, but I hold firm in my belief of the bible, this will not change that.

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2009

which is why it NOW supports a conservative agenda...

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2009

If you can see how the words MIGHT be perverted now...can you see how they might already have been perverted over the last couple thousand years?

Christa - posted on 10/06/2009

Quoting dana:

While I know the bible has been translated many times. I'm wondering if it has been traslated to fit a political view before.

I guess I don't see it as translating it to "fit a political view".  To me (obviously) I already interpret the bible as a document that supports conservative agenda, that’s why I’m a conservative.  I just think this would be to make it more clear to people who haven't taken the time to really study and understand it's current themes. 

I also want to say I don't know if I support this, seeing how I don't know how exactly it will be translated and what the final product will look like.  I can see this causing a perversion or the word if done by the wrong people.  I can also see how the integrity of the bible can be held intact if done by the right people.  I will have to wait and see before I make a final judgment on it.

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2009

There are many groups that believe that the original bible was not Patriarchal, that hundreds of years after it was originally written, men rewrote it to serve their agenda and validate their dominance over women...that's just one. King James had it rewritten to suit his own agendas and beliefs. It goes on and on.

Isobel - posted on 10/06/2009

"I believe the original intent of the words was already lost in translation many years ago. The bible is the worst game of telephone ever. So many millions have died from it and it continues to this day."

Amen sister!

Dana - posted on 10/06/2009

While I know the bible has been translated many times. I'm wondering if it has been traslated to fit a political view before.

Natalie - posted on 10/06/2009

Quoting dana:

This is completely sick. Makes you wonder how many times people have tried this in history and if anyone's succeeded.

King James Version.

Christa - posted on 10/06/2009

Liberal bias has become the single biggest distortion in modern Bible translations. There are three sources of errors in conveying biblical meaning:



lack of precision in the original language, such as terms underdeveloped to convey new concepts introduced by Christ

lack of precision in modern language

translation bias in converting the original language to the modern one.

Of these three sources of errors, the last introduces the largest error, and the biggest component of that error is liberal bias. Large reductions in this error can be attained simply by retranslating the KJV into modern English.[1]



As of 2009, there is no fully conservative translation of the Bible which satisfies the following ten guidelines:[2]



Framework against Liberal Bias: providing a strong framework that enables a thought-for-thought translation without corruption by liberal bias

Not Emasculated: avoiding unisex, "gender inclusive" language, and other modern emasculation of Christianity

Not Dumbed Down: not dumbing down the reading level, or diluting the intellectual force and logic of Christianity; the NIV is written at only the 7th grade level[3]

Utilize Powerful Conservative Terms: using powerful new conservative terms as they develop;[4] defective translations use the word "comrade" three times as often as "volunteer"; similarly, updating words which have a change in meaning, such as "word", "peace", and "miracle".

Combat Harmful Addiction: combating addiction by using modern terms for it, such as "gamble" rather than "cast lots";[5] using modern political terms, such as "register" rather than "enroll" for the census

Accept the Logic of Hell: applying logic with its full force and effect, as in not denying or downplaying the very real existence of Hell or the Devil.

Express Free Market Parables; explaining the numerous economic parables with their full free-market meaning

Exclude Later-Inserted Liberal Passages: excluding the later-inserted liberal passages that are not authentic, such as the adulteress story

Credit Open-Mindedness of Disciples: crediting open-mindedness, often found in youngsters like the eyewitnesses Mark and John, the authors of two of the Gospels

Prefer Conciseness over Liberal Wordiness: preferring conciseness to the liberal style of high word-to-substance ratio; avoid compound negatives and unnecessary ambiguities; prefer concise, consistent use of the word "Lord" rather than "Jehovah" or "Yahweh" or "Lord God."

Thus, a project has begun among members of Conservapedia to translate the Bible in accordance with these principles. The translated Bible can be found here.



Benefits include:



mastery of the Bible, which is priceless

mastery of the English language, which is valuable

thorough understanding of the differences in Bible translations, particularly the historically important King James Version

benefiting from activity that no public school would ever allow; a Conservative Bible could become a text for public school courses

liberals will oppose this effort, but they will have to read the Bible to criticize this, and that will open their minds

How long would this project take? There are about 8000 verses in the New Testament. At a careful rate of translating about four verses an hour, it would take one person 2000 hours, or about one year working full time on the project.



** This is the main summary, there's too much to post the whole webpage***

Christa - posted on 10/06/2009

Wow I'm the only one who could open it, weird. :-P It doesn't appear that they are wanting to "rewrite" the bible to serve their own agenda. They want to do a new translation that makes things more clear to an average reader. Make things more clear so that an opponent to the bible can’t take one verse and use it to discredit the whole bible (which people try to do a lot). They want to make the themes and common threads more obvious. There are so many different translations as it is, which is why I feel it's important to read several translations to try and get your own interpretation out of it. I'll post the test from the website below so you can read it.

Amy - posted on 10/06/2009

That's exactly why I feel much of it can not be taken literally. If you look at most religions (which, when looking deep, you can see many similarities) you'll notice all contain a "golden rule" or "Karma" most say killing is wrong, and to treat others well. The things I can not believe is the whole man shall not lie with man as man lies with woman. I don't believe God would make us all so very different just to make us choose to conform to one lifestyle.There is so much speculation on what had been changed by the Catholic church just to regain control over the people. I found a lot of the research on the subject to be interesting (I was glued to the History channel for a solid week before "The Davinci Code" came out, just because they went into the actual facts behind the alleged corruption in the Catholic church)

Dana - posted on 10/06/2009

This is completely sick. Makes you wonder how many times people have tried this in history and if anyone's succeeded.

Jenny - posted on 10/06/2009

I believe the original intent of the words was already lost in translation many years ago. The bible is the worst game of telephone ever. So many millions have died from it and it continues to this day.

Amy - posted on 10/06/2009

Yup, can't get the conservapdeia to open either...This is the first I have ever heard of a conservative movement on the Bible. Hell, most people have enough of a hard time trying to figure out the true intent as it is currently written, I can only imagine how butchered it can get if this project were to actually go through.

I have a complicated stance on religion. I am not a religious person, but I am a person of faith. I believe in most teachings of the bible. I believe the Bible has been "translated" too many times to meet the majority's agenda. I believe if there are anymore changes/"translations", the true message will eventually be lost.

And Who are these people, who think they can just up and re-write the Bible? Self-righteous much?

Amy - posted on 10/06/2009

Yup, can't get the conservapdeia to open either...This is the first I have ever heard of a conservative movement on the Bible. Hell, most people have enough of a hard time trying to figure out the true intent as it is currently written, I can only imagine how butchered it can get if this project were to actually go through.

I have a complicated stance on religion. I am not a religious person, but I am a person of faith. I believe in most teachings of the bible. I believe the Bible has been "translated" too many times to meet the majority's agenda. I believe if there are anymore changes/"translations", the true message will eventually be lost.

And Who are these people, who think they can just up and re-write the Bible? Self-righteous much?